This is going to be controversial, but hear me out
1.Why we need this change
a. There are so few of tank and heal.
Even with the future performance improvement plan, I think we can all agree that it's not going to change the fact that DPS would need to queue for over 20 minutes and sometime would get a fake tank or heal after that. The current three role system simply doesn't work well
b.They are quite bad in open world.
I think this is also another reason why there are so few tank and heal, they simply are not "viable" outside of instanced content, to use them, you will need to grind levels and gears and only able to use them for queueing. They are weak when solo, and when they can't even carry themselves in "easy overland", you know it's bad. Also, It wouldn't be a problem had overland is harder and require cooperation, but we all know how overland is in ESO.
c.They are making balancing hard
Especially since ESO insist on balancing pvp and pve together. What maybe nice and balance in pve/pvp maybe way too broken for pvp/pve, and most of them are survival/heal sets. (Damage sets have this problem too, but they are rather easy to get spotted and re-balance)
2.The new system and why it's better
a.The new system:
Players get to choose their preference role (not garanteeing you will get the role) when queueing for instanced content, and when a group is formed, players assigned to tank role and heal role will receive a tank/healing buff, making them more tanky/heal more in this instance (dungeon/trial/arena). Basically, this is the "battle spirit" of pve. And of couse, some of the tank gear and heal gear will need to adjusted.
b.Why this is better
First, the steps needed to adjust from a overland character to a tank/heal in dungeon is easier, since you will only need that instance buff and equip some different gear and skills, you don't need to completely rebuild your character just to be a tank/heal in normal/vanilla vet dungeons. (Of course tho for advanced contents some professional tank and heal build is still appreciated)
Second, since your character can be adjusted easily to any of the three roles with the instance buff, your assigned role when you queue doesn't necessarily have to be the one you preferenced. It may create some confusion at first, but with time it will make player queueing easier and faster, and less stress for queue machine hamster.
Also, your "tank" or "healer" won't be miserable in overland content, they can finally be free to explore, doing quests solo to build up their character lore etc.
Finally, nerfing overpowered survival gear (be it tank or heal) will make it easier for ZOS to balance the game, no more undying characters in pvp
Fur_like_snow wrote: »Normal dungeon queue should be listed as “3 DPS and 1 support”.
There are players that actually need a tank and heals in many normal dungeons. Sadly.
This is going to be controversial, but hear me out
1.Why we need this change
a. There are so few of tank and heal.
Even with the future performance improvement plan, I think we can all agree that it's not going to change the fact that DPS would need to queue for over 20 minutes and sometime would get a fake tank or heal after that. The current three role system simply doesn't work well
b.They are quite bad in open world.
I think this is also another reason why there are so few tank and heal, they simply are not "viable" outside of instanced content, to use them, you will need to grind levels and gears and only able to use them for queueing. They are weak when solo, and when they can't even carry themselves in "easy overland", you know it's bad. Also, It wouldn't be a problem had overland is harder and require cooperation, but we all know how overland is in ESO.
c.They are making balancing hard
Especially since ESO insist on balancing pvp and pve together. What maybe nice and balance in pve/pvp maybe way too broken for pvp/pve, and most of them are survival/heal sets. (Damage sets have this problem too, but they are rather easy to get spotted and re-balance)
2.The new system and why it's better
a.The new system:
Players get to choose their preference role (not garanteeing you will get the role) when queueing for instanced content, and when a group is formed, players assigned to tank role and heal role will receive a tank/healing buff, making them more tanky/heal more in this instance (dungeon/trial/arena). Basically, this is the "battle spirit" of pve. And of couse, some of the tank gear and heal gear will need to adjusted.
b.Why this is better
First, the steps needed to adjust from a overland character to a tank/heal in dungeon is easier, since you will only need that instance buff and equip some different gear and skills, you don't need to completely rebuild your character just to be a tank/heal in normal/vanilla vet dungeons. (Of course tho for advanced contents some professional tank and heal build is still appreciated)
Second, since your character can be adjusted easily to any of the three roles with the instance buff, your assigned role when you queue doesn't necessarily have to be the one you preferenced. It may create some confusion at first, but with time it will make player queueing easier and faster, and less stress for queue machine hamster.
Also, your "tank" or "healer" won't be miserable in overland content, they can finally be free to explore, doing quests solo to build up their character lore etc.
Finally, nerfing overpowered survival gear (be it tank or heal) will make it easier for ZOS to balance the game, no more undying characters in pvp
The dungeons is what needs to change and if they change the rest will change as well. These linear raid mechanic style dungeons are a turd and a waste of effort since horns of the reach.
players are only interested if the mechanics are subtle like in the base game dungeons. i.e the raid mechanic model is a total failure.
Tanks do get rewarded, they have no wait times in dungeon queues in pve.
Tanks do get rewarded, they have no wait times in dungeon queues in pve.
Which means nothing. Cp cap players mostly dont run pug dungeons. IF they do use the group finder, its with a full group. Or on alt for leveling things. Once you have reached end game there is zero reason to use the group finder as a tank or healer, unless you have been very anti social and dont have a friends list and 5 guilds
Dusk_Coven wrote: »Or make it easier for each toon to be able to switch to different roles.
There are so many ways to implement this:
-FFXIV lets you play multiple classes all on the same toon, and gives you the gear storage space to gear each one properly when you switch class/role. You can't switch once you're in a group instance, though.
-DCUO uses a toggle to Tank Role or Controller Role or DPS Role or Healer Role. Each status comes with a set of buffs and debuffs. For example as a tank you do less damage than DPS but all your powers are taunts.
-SWL lets you change your focus on a three-way slider between tank, heals, and dps.
-NWO lets you have multiple skill/attribute/perk profiles.
Alternate types of roles like Support (e.g., DCUO) and Controller (eg. NWO) can make things more interesting but we already have a balancing issue that's made just about impossible by ZOS's insistence on balancing for both PvE and PvP at the same time.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »Tanks do get rewarded, they have no wait times in dungeon queues in pve.
Which means nothing. Cp cap players mostly dont run pug dungeons. IF they do use the group finder, its with a full group. Or on alt for leveling things. Once you have reached end game there is zero reason to use the group finder as a tank or healer, unless you have been very anti social and dont have a friends list and 5 guilds
Lol, so you think that to press one button for instant queue and complete pledge or 2 with pugs is longer then:
a) broadcast to guild or 2 or whisper friends if they wanna do pledge
b) wait until everybody re-logs to other toon
c) wait until everybody got pledges
d) listen how somebody taken yesterday's pledges and wants to complete them first. One person will remember that he have yesterday's pleges on other toon and re-log
e) another person will remember that they need to level undaunted and will re-log again to *** new pvp alt with low dps and no proper gear...
By the moment guild/friends group will gather, you will already complete those pledges on tank with pugs and if you got incompetent pug just wish them good luck and leave group. From my experience of pugging as tank, 90% of groups can complete non-DLC HM pledges just fine and with agreeable speed. vDLC with pugs is of course only for fun and amusement, chances to do vDLC HM with pugs are extremely low, maybe 5-10%.
On the other hand, on dps toon, run with guildies/friends is the only proper way. Otherwise you may wait for an hour in queue and receive tank who can't survive WS1 last boss, not to mention vDLC where proper tank in pugs is rather rare sight..
b.They are quite bad in open world.
I think this is also another reason why there are so few tank and heal, they simply are not "viable" outside of instanced content, to use them, you will need to grind levels and gears and only able to use them for queueing. They are weak when solo, and when they can't even carry themselves in "easy overland", you know it's bad. Also, It wouldn't be a problem had overland is harder and require cooperation, but we all know how overland is in ESO.
gangyzgirl wrote: »I have two toons that both main a tank and a healer and they’ve been able to do the overland and story content without issue. Maybe it takes a tad longer on the tank but it can still be done. I think people just need an incentive to play tanks and healers. I know I often don’t que and certainly not for vet dlcs due to bad experiences with low damage dps. Maybe if there was an added benefit to queuing up the que would be shorter since we aren’t taking the time to group with friends and guildies.
I’d prefer more people to understand and play the roles of tank or healer... but there are no incentives to doing this.
Currently you
Don’t get rewarded for being a tank or healer in terms of either XP or actual rewards or achievements or titles or cosmetics
Don’t have any easily recognisable stats to show how effective you were - so your heals and buffs/debuffs that benefit the group are effectively invisible to most DPS players - hence the widespread delusion that anyone can do these roles with no effort or that they aren’t required.
Don’t have any way to measure your success or improvement over time so developing or improving the skills required is difficult
Don’t have any in-game mechanism to practice or understand the healing or tank role - no tutorials or training dummies
Are massively penalised in solo overland/questing as tank and healer builds do not fit the ‘all content must be killed’ quest structure
Not really surprising that so few players have the skills required to step up to these roles.... killing *** is the easy part of the game
This is going to be controversial, but hear me out
1.Why we need this change
a. There are so few of tank and heal.
Even with the future performance improvement plan, I think we can all agree that it's not going to change the fact that DPS would need to queue for over 20 minutes and sometime would get a fake tank or heal after that. The current three role system simply doesn't work well
b.They are quite bad in open world.
I think this is also another reason why there are so few tank and heal, they simply are not "viable" outside of instanced content, to use them, you will need to grind levels and gears and only able to use them for queueing. They are weak when solo, and when they can't even carry themselves in "easy overland", you know it's bad. Also, It wouldn't be a problem had overland is harder and require cooperation, but we all know how overland is in ESO.
c.They are making balancing hard
Especially since ESO insist on balancing pvp and pve together. What maybe nice and balance in pve/pvp maybe way too broken for pvp/pve, and most of them are survival/heal sets. (Damage sets have this problem too, but they are rather easy to get spotted and re-balance)
2.The new system and why it's better
a.The new system:
Players get to choose their preference role (not garanteeing you will get the role) when queueing for instanced content, and when a group is formed, players assigned to tank role and heal role will receive a tank/healing buff, making them more tanky/heal more in this instance (dungeon/trial/arena). Basically, this is the "battle spirit" of pve. And of couse, some of the tank gear and heal gear will need to adjusted.
b.Why this is better
First, the steps needed to adjust from a overland character to a tank/heal in dungeon is easier, since you will only need that instance buff and equip some different gear and skills, you don't need to completely rebuild your character just to be a tank/heal in normal/vanilla vet dungeons. (Of course tho for advanced contents some professional tank and heal build is still appreciated)
Second, since your character can be adjusted easily to any of the three roles with the instance buff, your assigned role when you queue doesn't necessarily have to be the one you preferenced. It may create some confusion at first, but with time it will make player queueing easier and faster, and less stress for queue machine hamster.
Also, your "tank" or "healer" won't be miserable in overland content, they can finally be free to explore, doing quests solo to build up their character lore etc.
Finally, nerfing overpowered survival gear (be it tank or heal) will make it easier for ZOS to balance the game, no more undying characters in pvp
cyberjanet wrote: »Guild Wars 2 did that.
Go play Guild Wars 2 and see if you like it.
This would be just unbalanced and not very useful at all, its not like a proper tank or healer would need this kind of buffs. Most of the time im trying to avoid the GF because of bad DDs with group damage of 10k while im doing 35% of it on my tank.
I rather would like to have a similar buff like we had when fighting molag bal for like 90% of the DDs queueing up as such.