I really really beg the developers to move a more permanent and less onerous fix for this than "turn off guild history a bunch" higher on the priority list as soon as possible. This game's trading system really relies on it.

It is almost like they are hostile to the second M in MMORPG.

Group Finder broken for years; No basic Guild tools that games a decade older than ESO provide and what seems like almost weekly harassment of GM's who attempt to run their guilds with the very basic historic info provided by turning off Guild History. Shameful.

Lets just hope the service just needs a restart.

Every single week. The "Show More" option has disappeared again too. Personally, this game is getting very close to the level of just not worth it.

Okay, I can understand that you turn off sales history due to addons (which is very annoying anyway). But why you turn off guild bank history???

Nicky33 wrote: »

Okay, I can understand that you turn off sales history due to addons (which is very annoying anyway). But why you turn off guild bank history???

We are supposed to enjoy all of these quality of life aspects of multi-bidding feature.
Can't you enjoy it too? The amazing pressure of gathering more gold for our increased bids and the thrilling feel when ZOS increases the difficulty level and disabled guild sale and bank history.
I don't know about you, but at least I can feel that quality increase as growing headache in my head.

*Deep sigh*

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Nicky got very good question right here. Why guild bank history is disabled? Could you at least consider opening that one asap?
Many guilds are relying on several fund raising ways which are directly related to the guild bank, so history log there is super important.

i really need another dev telling us, zos isnt accusing addons and addon developers....
and that message from jessica folsom didnt even manage to get listed in the dev tracker. awesome.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493007/guild-history-turned-off-sept-9-pc-mac-servers

We have temporarily turned off guild history on the PC/Mac servers due to an add-on related game performance issue that surfaced today. We are working on a fix that will go out with Monday’s incremental. If we’re able to turn on guild history before then, we’ll let everyone know. Thank you for your patience.

Last night I logged in, went to the IC Sewers to turn in the daily quests I’d been holding, saw that guild history had been turned off again, and logged out in disgust.

Because my 2 minutes online underscores the incompetence of Zeni.

They launch a much advertised annual event, and the drops from that event’s daily quests are broken. They acknowledge the issue and leave it broken all weekend. Seriously, an entire weekend of an advertised feature not working. Where was the testing and QA team on this before it went live? How long will it take you to figure out the importance of regression testing things when you make changes? Another 6 years?

And the guild history thing. I’ve long supported the decision to have a Guild-based economy instead of a stereotypical AH. But to make it work you have to give the guilds tools and keep them stable. You can’t be shutting history off on a regular basis. If your system is so poorly coded that it can’t handle multiple queries without locking things up, you need to fix that, not prevent queries from running.

It’s so clear that zeni is grasping at straws. Honestly I’m at the end of my rope.

At least a big "thank you" to the creators of MM - thanks to "that" new option, I was finally able to catch up on guild store sales - I had no idea how much I sold or if I did meet quotas for quite some time.
And a big "shame on you" to ZOS, crippling one of the major aspects of trading.

its funny tho. there are authors which had been discussing options to lower the amount of requests to the server and the guild history in the past, sensing the issues, even pre first big guild history shutdown, and then there are authors who just search loopholes after the first big bang and go on crashing the server....

sirinsidiator wrote: »

I agree that communication on this issue could be better, but let's all take a step back and think about it logically. We know that the server is at capacity thanks to new game features and more players. Guild History requests are expensive and some addons send more of them than they should. We have seen how bad performance can get and something needs to done in order to ensure the game runs stable.

How would you do that? Turn off combat? Or chat? Probably not. The easiest short term solution is to turn off something that is not affecting too many players. Looking at the download numbers of addons like MM and ATT, we can estimate there are around 60k players using them and the "handful" of trading guild gms is likely already included in that number. Compare that to the overall population of 13.5M players / 3 platforms = 4.5 million players on PC and you'll see that it doesn't really affect too many. Is it annoying for those affected? Yes. But there is nothing else they can do right now until they have finished the long term solution they are working on right now. They haven't communicated it here (just told addon devs about it), but they are working on something and I'm sure they'll announce it when they are ready to talk about it.

That aside, ZOS literally said "don't send so many requests so we can leave the history on" and even changed the API for that reason and then someone went ahead and circumvented that limitation. Those who think it was okay to do that should grow up and/or rethink their life.

I recommend revisiting combat logs. How vital is it that every single footfall within a dungeon/trial is exported to a third party platform? Tell me that's not over-taxing the system. [Edit: see code's reply below on this. It's informative.]

Instead, a datatable that is supposed to be natively visible within the game has been turned off.

This is the first time I'll agree; I don't doubt the turbo change to MM is causing an issue. The bigger question is why are we so hamstrung managing sales data that our addon devs had to code for this?

Edit to reference code's reply.

reoskit wrote: »

I recommend revisiting combat logs. How vital is it that every single footfall within a dungeon/trial is exported to a third party platform? Tell me that's not over-taxing the system.

You picked a terrible example. From the server standpoint, combat logging is free. Literally free. Why? Because this is data that's being sent to the client at all times anyway. When you see the character next to you take a step forward and then light attack, your game needs that information to be able to render it on your screen. All that combat logging does is save that stream of information--that is always being sent to the client already--so that they can later upload it to some third-party platform for that third party to analyze. The only cost to combat logging is client-side, with saving that stream of information to disk (the analysis of that data, since it's third-party, does not involve ZOS's resources in any way, shape or form).

The other thing to keep in mind is that stuff like combat scales well because it's compartmentalized. What happens with my group in Moongrave has absolutely no effect on anything that happens in any other zone or instance and vice-versa. So the server farm can allocate these things to separate machines, and supporting more zone instances and more dungeon instances is as simple as adding more machines. But for global systems, this doesn't really work. You can't divide up the work as easily and as neatly as you can with instances and zones. So, yes, these systems are different.

(This is also why combat in Cyrodiil is much more problematic than combat in a dungeon: You can't compartmentalize Cyrodiil like you can with dungeons, trials, or even the various instances of overland zones.)

And, yes, if ZOS had designed the system better, this wouldn't be a problem. But major overhauls of these systems don't happen overnight. The reality is that there is an inefficient system that doesn't scale well, and as a band-aid, rate limits were put in place. And ZOS did indicate that they are working on overhauling the system. But until that happens, ripping off that band-aid with a bypass of the rate limit is, frankly, irresponsible.

Whats the difference between me hitting E every 1 1/2 seconds to download the sales data and MM doing the very same thing? I was gone for 4 days over Labor Day and had to hit E to get all that sales data... and that took multiple days. Mind you I actually played the game during this time which is what I am supposed to be doing, not sitting around hitting E to get sales data all the time. ZOS has shown it won't fix their spaghetti code, feedback means nothing. Obviously MM is a huge problem which is why console players have a swimmingly good time with no lag, no disconnects, nary an error... right? Oh wait... they have all the problems of PC yet no addons... so what is THAT excuse? ZOS has their boogyman now, they can wield the data ban hammer at will.