MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

ScruffyWhiskers · August 2019

fred4 wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

I never liked cloakblade myself because healing always sucked

It still does. Not since cloak made it all crit has healing been really good on magblade, IMO.

and in the situation where someone negates your stealth you are screwed.

It is tough, or specifically detect potions are tough. I use Dampen and Healing Ward in those situations. It is not a great defense in my build, but if you were stacking magicka, things might be different. NB gets the same mag-stacking passives as warden. My magden (50K to 58K mag in CP) has always felt eminently viable with just shields. I use Dampen, Regen and Living Trellis on that character. Trellis is an awfully good skill, but Dampen + Healing Ward + Regen (the 10 sec morph) + vMA or BRP resto should come close.

There are really two reasons why detect potions, in particular, are so diabolical. One is that you need experience to immediately tell when someone has used one. The second is that you get totally dependent on cloak. I keep saying - and I do believe this - that a cloaking NB plays better in open spaces than in confined ones. As long as cloak works you have more directions in which to escape, making you less predictable, and the enemy can't cover it all with AOE. When cloak stops working, what catches you out is that you must suddenly drastically change your playstyle, but basically all that means is you have to LoS, just like everyone else. And you can keep cloaking for the Concealed speed bonus. You might not be tanky, but if you built for speed, you are still fast. That said, it's a juggling act between knowing when to cloak and when to shield.

I tend to be aware of LoS opportunities, even when I'm perma-cloaking. Sometimes cloak fails, for example due to lag. If you are staking out a group, it's better to be behind a tree or a column in IC, so they don't immediately spot you. Again, speed helps so much as you aim to stay well away from spaces where a sorc might streak or some AOE might detect you, yet you can quickly close the gap when an opportunity arises, such as a player momentarily separating from the group.

I'd rather die to a zerg, knowing I was heavily outnumbered, than to 2 baddies who use detect pots/mark, etc. on you countering most of your defence.

Fair enough, but that doesn't happen all that often and it's from a fairly privileged position a cloaking nightblade feels that way. We like to be in control of the fight. No other class even has that luxury, other than perhaps a streaking sorc. If you run into two equally skilled players, they should kill you, if you face them head on. I get what you're saying. If you're very tanky you might stand your ground and, if you just play for defense (Mist Form, LoS, etc.), you might do so as well. However, my point is that a magblade isn't completely screwed when cloak fails. Depending on your build, you have shields, speed, the shade, dodge rolls (me), Temporal Guard and so on. LoS is perhaps the strongest of all counters and is available to everyone.

P.S.: I forgot to emphasize that Shadowy suppresses DOT damage. Kind of a big deal, this patch.

That's a great analysis. Should be in any magblade hand book.

brandonv516 · August 2019

Just wanted to say that I traded out Merciless Resolve for Elemental Weapon and I LOVE IT. Crazy huh?

I found that I don't benefit from the skill as much as I thought I did (this patch).

The 10% mitigation is far less useful on my build than for tankier builds.
Elemental Weapon allows me to gain a small shield when I block high impact damage.

The Spectral Bow proc is still not reliable and the heal is hard to take advantage of.
Elemental Weapon in Cloak combined with Force Pulse is insane - just take a look at all the critical damage you put out with one combo.

It's not exactly sustain friendly.
Elemental Weapon gives me back some resources if I don't take advantage of it.

I also traded out Fear for Flame Clench as I'm playing all ranged this patch and it still works decent even at 15m.

This may not be everyone's style of play but I figured I'd throw it out there for anyone interested.

One BGs match last night was 1.9mil damage, absolutely lethal.

Insco851 · August 2019

brandonv516 wrote: »

Just wanted to say that I traded out Merciless Resolve for Elemental Weapon and I LOVE IT. Crazy huh?

I found that I don't benefit from the skill as much as I thought I did (this patch).

The 10% mitigation is far less useful on my build than for tankier builds.
Elemental Weapon allows me to gain a small shield when I block high impact damage.

The Spectral Bow proc is still not reliable and the heal is hard to take advantage of.
Elemental Weapon in Cloak combined with Force Pulse is insane - just take a look at all the critical damage you put out with one combo.

It's not exactly sustain friendly.
Elemental Weapon gives me back some resources if I don't take advantage of it.

I also traded out Fear for Flame Clench as I'm playing all ranged this patch and it still works decent even at 15m.

This may not be everyone's style of play but I figured I'd through it out there for anyone interested.

One BGs match last night was 1.9mil damage, absolutely lethal.

Yea pre-ele weapon into another spammable has been very strong for awhile. But hard to like up on some targets.

Iskiab · August 2019

Insco851 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Just wanted to say that I traded out Merciless Resolve for Elemental Weapon and I LOVE IT. Crazy huh?

I found that I don't benefit from the skill as much as I thought I did (this patch).

The 10% mitigation is far less useful on my build than for tankier builds.
Elemental Weapon allows me to gain a small shield when I block high impact damage.

The Spectral Bow proc is still not reliable and the heal is hard to take advantage of.
Elemental Weapon in Cloak combined with Force Pulse is insane - just take a look at all the critical damage you put out with one combo.

It's not exactly sustain friendly.
Elemental Weapon gives me back some resources if I don't take advantage of it.

I also traded out Fear for Flame Clench as I'm playing all ranged this patch and it still works decent even at 15m.

This may not be everyone's style of play but I figured I'd through it out there for anyone interested.

One BGs match last night was 1.9mil damage, absolutely lethal.

Yea pre-ele weapon into another spammable has been very strong for awhile. But hard to like up on some targets.

Yea, he also means how elemental weapon applies a status effect and force pulse cleaves adjacent enemies with status effects on them. A little bit of synergy.

brandonv516 · August 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Just wanted to say that I traded out Merciless Resolve for Elemental Weapon and I LOVE IT. Crazy huh?

I found that I don't benefit from the skill as much as I thought I did (this patch).

The 10% mitigation is far less useful on my build than for tankier builds.
Elemental Weapon allows me to gain a small shield when I block high impact damage.

The Spectral Bow proc is still not reliable and the heal is hard to take advantage of.
Elemental Weapon in Cloak combined with Force Pulse is insane - just take a look at all the critical damage you put out with one combo.

It's not exactly sustain friendly.
Elemental Weapon gives me back some resources if I don't take advantage of it.

I also traded out Fear for Flame Clench as I'm playing all ranged this patch and it still works decent even at 15m.

This may not be everyone's style of play but I figured I'd through it out there for anyone interested.

One BGs match last night was 1.9mil damage, absolutely lethal.

Yea pre-ele weapon into another spammable has been very strong for awhile. But hard to like up on some targets.

Yea, he also means how elemental weapon applies a status effect and force pulse cleaves adjacent enemies with status effects on them. A little bit of synergy.

Yep

That cleave damage got a nice buff.

Vermintide · September 2019

So I see Chudan is up on the golden today.

Worthwhile as a defensive set on a magblade?

Iskiab · September 2019

Vermintide wrote: »

So I see Chudan is up on the golden today.

Worthwhile as a defensive set on a magblade?

I don’t think so, shadow passive gives the same buff for free.

Vermintide · September 2019

Right you are. I always forget about the fact buffs are universal in this game.

ScruffyWhiskers · September 2019

Insco851 wrote: »

Yea pre-ele weapon into another spammable has been very strong for awhile. But hard to like up on some targets.

One more second on the duration would make it more useful if you wanted to back bar it. You have to be really good to get this off on time with any type of lag. Also, the cast time on soul harvest has made this even tougher if you wanted to lead with soul harvest to get the 20% buff. No more canceling the soul harvest into a the light attack.

Insco851 · September 2019

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Yea pre-ele weapon into another spammable has been very strong for awhile. But hard to like up on some targets.

One more second on the duration would make it more useful if you wanted to back bar it. You have to be really good to get this off on time with any type of lag. Also, the cast time on soul harvest has made this even tougher if you wanted to lead with soul harvest to get the 20% buff. No more canceling the soul harvest into a the light attack.

Ele>Reach>Bow Proc

Might have to go back to it this patch

GhostofDatthaw · September 2019

Insco851 wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Yea pre-ele weapon into another spammable has been very strong for awhile. But hard to like up on some targets.

One more second on the duration would make it more useful if you wanted to back bar it. You have to be really good to get this off on time with any type of lag. Also, the cast time on soul harvest has made this even tougher if you wanted to lead with soul harvest to get the 20% buff. No more canceling the soul harvest into a the light attack.

Ele>Reach>Bow Proc

Might have to go back to it this patch

I will say the little bit I've played this patch, I did like clench. The actual knock back again is dope and honestly... Well... I don't want to say it..
Feels a little

Funny.

It's good to line up blows now

brandonv516 · September 2019

Biggest change this patch that hurts Magblade is cast times.
-For damage, Soul Harvest is inferior to Shooting Star
-For heals, Soul Siphon is inferior to Barrier

Biggest change this patch that benefits Magblade is Rapid Regen.
-I no longer feel the need to slot the Resto ultimate anymore
-This does still pigeon-hole Magblades into Destro/Resto

Iskiab · September 2019

brandonv516 wrote: »

Biggest change this patch that hurts Magblade is cast times.
-For damage, Soul Harvest is inferior to Shooting Star
-For heals, Soul Siphon is inferior to Barrier

Biggest change this patch that benefits Magblade is Rapid Regen.
-I no longer feel the need to slot the Resto ultimate anymore
-This does still pigeon-hole Magblades into Destro/Resto

Yup, agree 100%. Barrier with the support passive for 20% extra mag recovery helps a lot too. Soul Siphon can still be decent if you need a Siphoning passive on your back bar, but Siphoning Strikes does a better job and helps sustain more.

Soul Siphon’s still a great ability, it’s too bad it doesn’t fire consistently. Before I dropped it I think about half my casts were getting interrupted, it was pretty ridiculous.

There are some builds that don’t need rapid regen though if you’re into funky hybrids.

Mayrael · September 2019

No CP here - What I can advise you is:

1. Forget about shields.
2. Use rapid regen.
3. Use all the dots possible.
4. Swap soul harvest with... Onslaught.

Enjoy.

Insco851 · September 2019

Anyone noticing fear is forcing a small animation before break? Was testing with a buddy, thought maybe lag, switch areas, same scenario. Fear stun even with quickest break free- .75-1 second~ stun.

Also soul syphon synergy was not showing up in group play... any one else?

thankyourat · September 2019

Any one have any success with a solo melee magblade so far this patch? I attempted one that was decent got a few good 1vXs with it. Though I had to flat out run from certain Templar builds lol it’s just no way to beat them with those dots and that bubble.

GhostofDatthaw · September 2019

thankyourat wrote: »

Any one have any success with a solo melee magblade so far this patch? I attempted one that was decent got a few good 1vXs with it. Though I had to flat out run from certain Templar builds lol it’s just no way to beat them with those dots and that bubble.

It's a hard knock life

Iskiab · September 2019

thankyourat wrote: »

Any one have any success with a solo melee magblade so far this patch? I attempted one that was decent got a few good 1vXs with it. Though I had to flat out run from certain Templar builds lol it’s just no way to beat them with those dots and that bubble.

Have you tried Onslaught and Balorgs?

My alt isn’t quite setup yet to give it a decent chance but I was thinking 2h/resto, pelinal & mechanical acuity, balorgs. Shadow mundus Khajit.

I’m making the move to the CP campaign and haven’t gotten a feel for what works yet.

In no-CP I haven’t been ganked it a long time, tried CP today and gank attempts were a joke, I didn’t even need to dodge roll, I could flat out ignore them as a healer. I don’t know if gank builds will work.

GhostofDatthaw · September 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Any one have any success with a solo melee magblade so far this patch? I attempted one that was decent got a few good 1vXs with it. Though I had to flat out run from certain Templar builds lol it’s just no way to beat them with those dots and that bubble.

Have you tried Onslaught and Balorgs?

My alt isn’t quite setup yet to give it a decent chance but I was thinking 2h/resto, pelinal & mechanical acuity, balorgs. Shadow mundus Khajit.

I’m making the move to the CP campaign and haven’t gotten a feel for what works yet.

In no-CP I haven’t been ganked it a long time, tried CP today and gank attempts were a joke, I didn’t even need to dodge roll, I could flat out ignore them as a healer. I don’t know if gank builds will work.

I'm not a fan of pelinal. Im sure it can work in groups but when I tried a hybrid I was not a fan. It came down to Stam can do everything better when you want to go melee. Imo what mag has as an advantage is ranged ability, it's why I feel melee specs need to rely heavily on procs like calu or zaan.

Iskiab · September 2019

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Any one have any success with a solo melee magblade so far this patch? I attempted one that was decent got a few good 1vXs with it. Though I had to flat out run from certain Templar builds lol it’s just no way to beat them with those dots and that bubble.

Have you tried Onslaught and Balorgs?

My alt isn’t quite setup yet to give it a decent chance but I was thinking 2h/resto, pelinal & mechanical acuity, balorgs. Shadow mundus Khajit.

I’m making the move to the CP campaign and haven’t gotten a feel for what works yet.

In no-CP I haven’t been ganked it a long time, tried CP today and gank attempts were a joke, I didn’t even need to dodge roll, I could flat out ignore them as a healer. I don’t know if gank builds will work.

I'm not a fan of pelinal. Im sure it can work in groups but when I tried a hybrid I was not a fan. It came down to Stam can do everything better when you want to go melee. Imo what mag has as an advantage is ranged ability, it's why I feel melee specs need to rely heavily on procs like calu or zaan.

I’ve always had more success with ranged than melee too, I just want to give melee a good go. Magblade looks like it was designed to be a melee/ranged hybrid to me because of melee and ranged abilities. Maybe I’ll try pelinals and vigor so I can 2h/flame staff.

One thing stamblade will never have over magblade is mag sustain. They might be better at damage or whatever, but magblade will always win in utility as long as they all cost magicka.

When you tried pelinals did you stack weapon damage? I’m thinking 1H-5m-1l, go for max mag and max weapon damage. Maybe 5m-2L but I don’t think that’ll be as good.

thankyourat · September 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Any one have any success with a solo melee magblade so far this patch? I attempted one that was decent got a few good 1vXs with it. Though I had to flat out run from certain Templar builds lol it’s just no way to beat them with those dots and that bubble.

Have you tried Onslaught and Balorgs?

My alt isn’t quite setup yet to give it a decent chance but I was thinking 2h/resto, pelinal & mechanical acuity, balorgs. Shadow mundus Khajit.

I’m making the move to the CP campaign and haven’t gotten a feel for what works yet.

In no-CP I haven’t been ganked it a long time, tried CP today and gank attempts were a joke, I didn’t even need to dodge roll, I could flat out ignore them as a healer. I don’t know if gank builds will work.

I actually played a onslaught ganker magblade the first time around before it was nerfed a couple years ago. You would routinely hit players for more than 22k with onslaught. They eventually nerfed a few sets that made it good though. I haven’t tried it recently I don’t think it would be effective at ganking though because you give up the burst from the Destro staff heavy attackThough elemental weapon may help there. Destro staff ganker on magblade is really strong. Proc set ganker is actually pretty weak for solo ganking but it’s effective at Xv1 ganking. I was thinking more of a balanced build though with good sustain and not so much a ganking build.

GhostofDatthaw · September 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Any one have any success with a solo melee magblade so far this patch? I attempted one that was decent got a few good 1vXs with it. Though I had to flat out run from certain Templar builds lol it’s just no way to beat them with those dots and that bubble.

Have you tried Onslaught and Balorgs?

My alt isn’t quite setup yet to give it a decent chance but I was thinking 2h/resto, pelinal & mechanical acuity, balorgs. Shadow mundus Khajit.

I’m making the move to the CP campaign and haven’t gotten a feel for what works yet.

In no-CP I haven’t been ganked it a long time, tried CP today and gank attempts were a joke, I didn’t even need to dodge roll, I could flat out ignore them as a healer. I don’t know if gank builds will work.

I'm not a fan of pelinal. Im sure it can work in groups but when I tried a hybrid I was not a fan. It came down to Stam can do everything better when you want to go melee. Imo what mag has as an advantage is ranged ability, it's why I feel melee specs need to rely heavily on procs like calu or zaan.

I’ve always had more success with ranged than melee too, I just want to give melee a good go. Magblade looks like it was designed to be a melee/ranged hybrid to me because of melee and ranged abilities. Maybe I’ll try pelinals and vigor so I can 2h/flame staff.

One thing stamblade will never have over magblade is mag sustain. They might be better at damage or whatever, but magblade will always win in utility as long as they all cost magicka.

When you tried pelinals did you stack weapon damage? I’m thinking 1H-5m-1l, go for max mag and max weapon damage. Maybe 5m-2L but I don’t think that’ll be as good.

When I ran hybrid was when FM 2h build were popular. I ran senche and took advantage of the tactician passive. It worked really well at the time but it always just felt like a knock off stamblade. Like over time it didn't make sense to run concealed over Sa because it gave fracture and I could have buffed up more with a master bow than vma resto for sustain and swallow soul hots.

jimijac0me · September 2019

I put together a more brawler style 2h build for this patch but haven't put it together in-game yet to try it out:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=174965

Ele weapon TT on the above is around 10k - slightly less than a heavy fire destro but then it'd be at 100% pen and damage can be stacked higher if you swapped out Buffer for Clever Alch, used shadow cloak etc.

With the aoe on onslaught I think you could put together a pretty nasty gank/bomb hybrid tbh with a simple Balorg/Clever Alch/VD setup or similar! Bombing not really my thing though lol

GhostofDatthaw · September 2019

jimijac0me wrote: »

I put together a more brawler style 2h build for this patch but haven't put it together in-game yet to try it out:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=174965

Ele weapon TT on the above is around 10k - slightly less than a heavy fire destro but then it'd be at 100% pen and damage can be stacked higher if you swapped out Buffer for Clever Alch, used shadow cloak etc.

With the aoe on onslaught I think you could put together a pretty nasty gank/bomb hybrid tbh with a simple Balorg/Clever Alch/VD setup or similar! Bombing not really my thing though lol

I think you misclick a bar skill, you don't have ele wep on there. I assume it takes saps place?

jimijac0me · September 2019

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

jimijac0me wrote: »

I put together a more brawler style 2h build for this patch but haven't put it together in-game yet to try it out:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=174965

Ele weapon TT on the above is around 10k - slightly less than a heavy fire destro but then it'd be at 100% pen and damage can be stacked higher if you swapped out Buffer for Clever Alch, used shadow cloak etc.

With the aoe on onslaught I think you could put together a pretty nasty gank/bomb hybrid tbh with a simple Balorg/Clever Alch/VD setup or similar! Bombing not really my thing though lol

I think you misclick a bar skill, you don't have ele wep on there. I assume it takes saps place?

No the build I posted wasn't meant to be using Ele weapon, more just a 2h build I was looking at trying out.

Someone a few posts up mentioned Ele weapon could replace the destro heavy attacks, so I was just commenting on that

Iskiab · September 2019

Ah nice, someone posted a melee magblade build. It’s with 810 CPs vs this one with zero CPs but it’s still okay I think for a comparison.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=166272

Basicly it’s fart around at ranged on the back bar, go in for the kill when acuity procs and onslaught is up. Issue is pen without onslaught.

Edit - added CPs for an easier comparison.

Insco851 · September 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Ah nice, someone posted a melee magblade build. It’s with 810 CPs vs this one with zero CPs but it’s still okay I think for a comparison.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=166272

Basicly it’s fart around at ranged on the back bar, go in for the kill when acuity procs and onslaught is up. Issue is pen without onslaught.

Edit - added CPs for an easier comparison.

Gave a 2h onslaught- Ele weapon gank build a try for a bit yesterday. It’s okay. Good for No cp. I’m not sure it’s going to get routine kills in CP however. If I can’t one shot someone with the combo in bgs, I have my doubts it’ll one shot in cp.

This setup also pointless to run merciless front bar.

ScruffyWhiskers · September 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Ah nice, someone posted a melee magblade build. It’s with 810 CPs vs this one with zero CPs but it’s still okay I think for a comparison.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=166272

Basicly it’s fart around at ranged on the back bar, go in for the kill when acuity procs and onslaught is up. Issue is pen without onslaught.

Edit - added CPs for an easier comparison.

That does look interesting. I love the idea of having a flame staff and vigor. But is that 4400 wep/spell damage after Balrogh procs from the ultimate?

Also, no stun or immobilize, heck no cc anywhere besides the lotus snare, which ain't going to cut it. And def is shade and nothing to create some distance or remove snares. This is really a YOLO brawler. Hat's off to anybody who can make this work in open world.

Iskiab · September 2019

I switched up abilities for an easy comparison. I’d go concealed and debilitate. It’s without balorg.

Looking at the tooltips it’s comparable to a mag 2h build, likely perform better in no-CP than CP because magicka’s relatively more powerful with the stat boosts in CP.

The appeal is moreso the crit modifier with mech acuity, but would likely run better with more dots and maybe Iceheart for better defense. 3k crit modifier is a 45% reduction in crits so the build would have a 70% crit modifier which is decent. Issue is moreso lack of pen without onslaught.

ScruffyWhiskers · September 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

It’s without balorg.

How do you get such a high wep damage then? Is stam really that better than magicka? I knew it was different and stam got more but that is just silly. I struggle to get 2400 spell damage with 2 infused spell damage enchants on jewelry. This game is whack sometimes.