MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

thankyourat

mursie wrote: »

after playing a bit on magblade i've come to the conclusion that the class is in a weak spot because of one ability:

impale

this ability is pure garbage. dodged 95% of the time and just not very potent unless the player is afk and nearly dead, it is absolute trash in comparison to the jesus beam of templar. radiant oppression can't be dodged, starts at 50%, scales to nearly 500% dmg... i mean my god.

if impale was made into a good executable, i truly believe this class would instantly be way more viable. the ability to attack from stealth routinely puts victims below 50% 9 times out of 10 just from open. the issue is that the follow up pressure isn't very good and the execute is total garbage.

my two cents

I think it’s a little more than that. Even if impale was buffed how would you fit it on your bar. I think that’s the main problem with magblade is you just don’t have bar space for everything you need.

Edit: you have to have merciless, a cc, both shade and cloak, a damage shield so you don’t instantly melt when out of stealth, a heal, two siphoning abilities for passives, and snare immunity. That’s 9 abilities right there so you basically have one ability to mess around with and with how bad sustain is you are probably going to want that to be siphoning attacks.

Iskiab

I think the class’ main issue is reliance on light attacks. Destro staves sort of suck, you get next to nothing from the passives making DW and 2H attractive.... except it’s harder to build stacks as melee.

In PvE it’s a nonissue because mobs don’t move much or dodge, in pvp it is especially with lag.

Heck even as a healer I’ve dropped a resto staff in some builds. The weapon damage from DW and 2H plus Onslaught is really nice. If DW daggers gave spell crit it’d be even better.

HowlKimchi

Iskiab wrote: »

I think the class’ main issue is reliance on light attacks. Destro staves sort of suck, you get next to nothing from the passives making DW and 2H attractive.... except it’s harder to build stacks as melee.

In PvE it’s a nonissue because mobs don’t move much or dodge, in pvp it is especially with lag.

Heck even as a healer I’ve dropped a resto staff in some builds. The weapon damage from DW and 2H plus Onslaught is really nice. If DW daggers gave spell crit it’d be even better.

every class should light attack weave though. destro passives are also amazing and gives way more damage than 2h and DW...

Iskiab

HaruKamui wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I think the class’ main issue is reliance on light attacks. Destro staves sort of suck, you get next to nothing from the passives making DW and 2H attractive.... except it’s harder to build stacks as melee.

In PvE it’s a nonissue because mobs don’t move much or dodge, in pvp it is especially with lag.

Heck even as a healer I’ve dropped a resto staff in some builds. The weapon damage from DW and 2H plus Onslaught is really nice. If DW daggers gave spell crit it’d be even better.

every class should light attack weave though. destro passives are also amazing and gives way more damage than 2h and DW...

In PvE yes. In PvE you want the burning effect for flame wall of elements so the increased status effect passive actually matters.

In PvP the status effects are nice but not great, the destro staff passives are more limited than melee weapons and most only apply to destro staff abilities, plus destro staffs give less weapon damage than melee weapons. Main reason for destro is destro staff abilities and ranged light attacks.

ScruffyWhiskers

mursie wrote: »

after playing a bit on magblade i've come to the conclusion that the class is in a weak spot because of one ability:

impale

this ability is pure garbage. dodged 95% of the time and just not very potent unless the player is afk and nearly dead, it is absolute trash in comparison to the jesus beam of templar. radiant oppression can't be dodged, starts at 50%, scales to nearly 500% dmg... i mean my god.

if impale was made into a good executable, i truly believe this class would instantly be way more viable. the ability to attack from stealth routinely puts victims below 50% 9 times out of 10 just from open. the issue is that the follow up pressure isn't very good and the execute is total garbage.

my two cents

Improved Impale would be really nice. Maybe move it to 30% or scale it down from 40%. Right now it only works as a kill stealer or on players who for whatever reason won't or can't get out of a low health situation quickly enough. I have it on my back bar but even with an Execute Now addon, it misses the window most of the times or gets dodge rolled. Heck, it even gets outshielded sometimes.

brandonv516

Iskiab wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I think the class’ main issue is reliance on light attacks. Destro staves sort of suck, you get next to nothing from the passives making DW and 2H attractive.... except it’s harder to build stacks as melee.

In PvE it’s a nonissue because mobs don’t move much or dodge, in pvp it is especially with lag.

Heck even as a healer I’ve dropped a resto staff in some builds. The weapon damage from DW and 2H plus Onslaught is really nice. If DW daggers gave spell crit it’d be even better.

every class should light attack weave though. destro passives are also amazing and gives way more damage than 2h and DW...

In PvE yes. In PvE you want the burning effect for flame wall of elements so the increased status effect passive actually matters.

In PvP the status effects are nice but not great, the destro staff passives are more limited than melee weapons and most only apply to destro staff abilities, plus destro staffs give less weapon damage than melee weapons. Main reason for destro is destro staff abilities and ranged light attacks.

I would argue Minor Vulnerability is pretty great. Putting a Shock Enchant on my Destro staff and using Flame Clench is a very strong alternative to Lotus Fan (and keeps you at range if desired).

Iskiab

brandonv516 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I think the class’ main issue is reliance on light attacks. Destro staves sort of suck, you get next to nothing from the passives making DW and 2H attractive.... except it’s harder to build stacks as melee.

In PvE it’s a nonissue because mobs don’t move much or dodge, in pvp it is especially with lag.

Heck even as a healer I’ve dropped a resto staff in some builds. The weapon damage from DW and 2H plus Onslaught is really nice. If DW daggers gave spell crit it’d be even better.

every class should light attack weave though. destro passives are also amazing and gives way more damage than 2h and DW...

In PvE yes. In PvE you want the burning effect for flame wall of elements so the increased status effect passive actually matters.

In PvP the status effects are nice but not great, the destro staff passives are more limited than melee weapons and most only apply to destro staff abilities, plus destro staffs give less weapon damage than melee weapons. Main reason for destro is destro staff abilities and ranged light attacks.

I would argue Minor Vulnerability is pretty great. Putting a Shock Enchant on my Destro staff and using Flame Clench is a very strong alternative to Lotus Fan (and keeps you at range if desired).

Yea, everything that does something positive is good, it’s about the opportunity cost.

I just mean you get 350 some odd extra spell damage just from changing to DW from a Flame Staff. Using swords also has a flat damage boost that isn’t restricted to single target abilities.

There are downside and upside to both, but without Siphoning Strikes and Merciless I’m pretty sure DW would be a lot more popular.

HowlKimchi

Iskiab wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I think the class’ main issue is reliance on light attacks. Destro staves sort of suck, you get next to nothing from the passives making DW and 2H attractive.... except it’s harder to build stacks as melee.

In PvE it’s a nonissue because mobs don’t move much or dodge, in pvp it is especially with lag.

Heck even as a healer I’ve dropped a resto staff in some builds. The weapon damage from DW and 2H plus Onslaught is really nice. If DW daggers gave spell crit it’d be even better.

every class should light attack weave though. destro passives are also amazing and gives way more damage than 2h and DW...

In PvE yes. In PvE you want the burning effect for flame wall of elements so the increased status effect passive actually matters.

In PvP the status effects are nice but not great, the destro staff passives are more limited than melee weapons and most only apply to destro staff abilities, plus destro staffs give less weapon damage than melee weapons. Main reason for destro is destro staff abilities and ranged light attacks.

Flame Staff also increases your damage done with single target abilities by 8%. Between that and light attack weaving, it should beat any other damage passives of other weapons.

But yeah DW and 2H (bcoz onslaught) are plausible. I just love destro la weaving so much.

Iskiab

HaruKamui wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I think the class’ main issue is reliance on light attacks. Destro staves sort of suck, you get next to nothing from the passives making DW and 2H attractive.... except it’s harder to build stacks as melee.

In PvE it’s a nonissue because mobs don’t move much or dodge, in pvp it is especially with lag.

Heck even as a healer I’ve dropped a resto staff in some builds. The weapon damage from DW and 2H plus Onslaught is really nice. If DW daggers gave spell crit it’d be even better.

every class should light attack weave though. destro passives are also amazing and gives way more damage than 2h and DW...

In PvE yes. In PvE you want the burning effect for flame wall of elements so the increased status effect passive actually matters.

In PvP the status effects are nice but not great, the destro staff passives are more limited than melee weapons and most only apply to destro staff abilities, plus destro staffs give less weapon damage than melee weapons. Main reason for destro is destro staff abilities and ranged light attacks.

Flame Staff also increases your damage done with single target abilities by 8%. Between that and light attack weaving, it should beat any other damage passives of other weapons.

But yeah DW and 2H (bcoz onslaught) are plausible. I just love destro la weaving so much.

Yea, I think it’s mainly healers who can get away with DW because of Symbiosis. Melee light attacks are a huge disadvantage on a class that needs them for self healing, mitigation and the Bow proc damage.

fred4

I've uploaded some footage of my build, in case anyone is interested. It's from CP IC:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dxsUVeGGLc&t=4s

The build is most fully described here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6312003/#Comment_6312003

brandonv516

fred4 wrote: »

I've uploaded some footage of my build, in case anyone is interested. It's from CP IC:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dxsUVeGGLc&t=4s

The build is most fully described here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6312003/#Comment_6312003

Thumbs up. Looks very fun for sure.

ScruffyWhiskers

Nice video Fred4. That was fun.

I could never play that much over the shoulder though. I'm way more zoomed out and try and keep the view more pointing down from above. Your way does make for a very dramatic camera angle. Nice change of pace. And I know you said you favored speed but wow.

Also, as soon as I saw that poaching AD player, I knew what you were going to do. Then I heard the potion and saw the red eye and I was like "Go get him." lol.

GhostofDatthaw

Lol when that video started I thought it was I'm 2x speed. You weren't kidding about fast. That steed mundus and swift really does turn magnb speed to the next level.

Iskiab

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Lol when that video started I thought it was I'm 2x speed. You weren't kidding about fast. That steed mundus and swift really does turn magnb speed to the next level.

Yea, super fast. Makes me want to record something too. People will go wtf is that when I show the build and hopefully be impressed with the results.

GhostofDatthaw

Lat time I recorded anything it was my ice build, I ran it a few patches ago and was amazingly fun and trolly

Winterborn/skoria/master ice/trans back

Was before the snare rework and I could stack so many snares unless you spammed snare removals you could not walk.

HowlKimchi

I have a lot of recordings but it always has the music from the youtube videos im watching on the 2nd monitor xD

ScruffyWhiskers

So PTS update this monday right? Anybody have any predictions for Magblade and the notes?

HowlKimchi

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

So PTS update this monday right? Anybody have any predictions for Magblade and the notes?

Pretty anxious that they might touch spectral bow, major resolve and major ward passives.

Insco851

HaruKamui wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

So PTS update this monday right? Anybody have any predictions for Magblade and the notes?

Pretty anxious that they might touch spectral bow, major resolve and major ward passives.

If they touch em in a bad way..... ooof

fred4

Iskiab wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Lol when that video started I thought it was I'm 2x speed. You weren't kidding about fast. That steed mundus and swift really does turn magnb speed to the next level.

Yea, super fast. Makes me want to record something too. People will go wtf is that when I show the build and hopefully be impressed with the results.

Well, do! I didn't fancy the Shadowplay telemetry so used OBS, which also used the encoder in my GTX970. Not settled on a video editor yet. I used ffmpeg to merely trim the footage.

One of the reasons I did the clip is to provide some context. All of us have different playstyles and, perhaps, different skill levels. I plan to put up more clips that will include messing up and what I struggle with. Hint: templars, although Streak, as a single skill, comes a close second. It's more of a problem than detect potions, because every sorc runs it by default.

The camera is pretty close, which makes me feel more connected to the character. That's also why I prefer melee over ranged, I suppose. Viewing angle is the maximum, though, 130 degrees.

I am flattered by the positive reception. Thank you!

Jeezye

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

So PTS update this monday right? Anybody have any predictions for Magblade and the notes?

I dont actually expect any decent changes for magblade after they announced the focus on templer, sorc and dk..

ScruffyWhiskers

I'd like to see them standardize melee spamables across magicka and stamina. Concealed weapons should do the same damage as its stamina counterpart surprise attack.

I'd like to see them drop the ultimate cast time. But yeah, that's not going to happen. What if it went down to 200ms? That would be just enough for Caluurian to get behind soul harvest if you had nimble fingers.

I would also like to see a monster set the helped out magicka melee. Something that had a controllable proc condition or maybe just Stygian's last effect on a monster set.

brandonv516

Jeezye wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

So PTS update this monday right? Anybody have any predictions for Magblade and the notes?

I dont actually expect any decent changes for magblade after they announced the focus on templer, sorc and dk..

Pretty much this.

I do hope they fix Refreshing Path so it procs Transmutation again.

HowlKimchi

I was inspired by fred4's awesome video so I compiled my own! I had to put music though because the audio from the youtube videos I was semi-watching while playing was coming through >_<

Clips are a combination of solo and with 2 friends! The last clip is a pretty long BG match that was pretty competitive. It's not complete though because I wasn't able to save the 2nd half of the match

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEkd6r2QnoQ&amp;feature=youtu.be[/video]

I'm using Troll King, Torug's, Spinners, Steed Mundus, 2 Protective Jewelries, 1 Swift, 6 impen, 1 Reinforced, 5-1-1 light armor.

EDIT:
heyyy making videos are fun! Making the thumbnails are fun too it turns out... put together another one lol

https://youtu.be/gfJSSVkxwlE

Peacatcher

I'm pleased I stumbled across this thread. It's reassuring to know the pain points I've been having are shared by others. Particularly the difficulty in having an offensive presence and bar space issues.

Metemsycosis

In defense of impale ( a slim defense) you gotta get used to hammering impale just before the opponent takes the burst but yeah it is true it seems like if you get someone that low might as well use the spammable to get a ko.

So if i hit someone with say, a full fire staff heavy, a force pulse, clench combo -- now they're under pressure. I watch the health bar. If i can regularly keep them down under 50 percent i know another good combo will bring them to impale's execute range.

When i get there THEN i start hammering impale anytime they are about to take more damage so that when they take the damage from say force pulse while they are mid to low hp the impale is already in flight.

HowlKimchi

Metemsycosis wrote: »

In defense of impale ( a slim defense) you gotta get used to hammering impale just before the opponent takes the burst but yeah it is true it seems like if you get someone that low might as well use the spammable to get a ko.

So if i hit someone with say, a full fire staff heavy, a force pulse, clench combo -- now they're under pressure. I watch the health bar. If i can regularly keep them down under 50 percent i know another good combo will bring them to impale's execute range.

When i get there THEN i start hammering impale anytime they are about to take more damage so that when they take the damage from say force pulse while they are mid to low hp the impale is already in flight.

I agree that impale is nice to have for the finish. But then, if the spectral bow doesn't kill the target, the regular spammable (with light attack weave and torug's infused enchant damage) does the job 90% of the time for me, which is good enough to not need to slot another skill on my bar.

Iskiab

It might be better as a healer. A healer’s normal damage isn’t that high, but impale lets you kill steal from other teams and knock out shield stacking sorcs as they try to streak away. 3x damage in execute range is powerful.

HowlKimchi

I will say however, that on the magicka dotblade im trying out, it seems that impale is very nice to have! The dot build isn't as reliant to a spammable skill because of all the dots that need refreshing (trying out 3 dots), that by the time i've applied all the dots, spectral bow is almost up.

Metemsycosis

Yes and light attacks are brilliant with a dot game, so much easier to sustain damage output