MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

Maulkin

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Iskiab

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

fred4

I was wrong to dismiss Refreshing Path. Just looked at the tooltip, which is decent, and the Expedition persists for 4 seconds. That's not bad. Still wouldn't suit my build, but not bad.

GhostofDatthaw

I always liked path and phantismal on dark cloak builds because the mit from aoe and the extra hot from path. The mobility aspect of it for me is more situational. I can sit there snared and just keep the aoe mit fighting one or two, the heals and cloak would keep me up. I only start keeping the snare removal up when I kite but if I have good positioning it's just like 1-2 spams while sprinting with my 17k Stam then I image into the shadows. Total reset. That style has again been nerfed though.

With shadowy I'm the whole point is to avoid as much direct damage as possible. Last build I was running in cyro and ic is balorg, btb, spinners, brp resto. I have fought one on one fights with some pretty top notch "meta" players on pcna and held my ground. With shadow and dueling it's all about mobility. And I don't mean like shade around a tree, I mean like being able to keep up Stam for roll Dodge, cloak abuse on single target and stuns, perma 6s cc on cooldown. The key for magnb is pure offense and just don't get hit. That's just how it is now in my experience because if you're not pure offense you can't kills the meta.

GhostofDatthaw

In terms of cyrodill, now that shade is fixed, rocks and elevation is magnb strength

Oh yeah btw last time I was playing, even with shade cost inc and ***, best way to think about it in more even solo fights is shade into a resto heavy if you need. I will pull like a 8m shade off to get me out of melee agro, clench the sucker, then resto heavy. Off the bat I have good mana back and 2 extra procs on mercy for the next combo. Works a little different vs ranged but vs ranged I can trade very easily with cloak dodges and burst timing

Koensol

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

Read his post again. He only needs to cast it every 4 seconds. 2x 1500 = 3000. His path costs 3.200 so he only loses 200 magicka. Like really I don't get why you think it is hard to sustain. 3.2k is really not much and on light armor its even better.

Also what you all forget is that refreshing path + phantasmal escape brings more than just mobility and heals. It also brings group utility, major evasion AND shadow passives which you need to get from another skill if you dont use path, which will end up costing you more magicka.

HowlKimchi

Refreshing path is indeed good! Unfortunately I don't have any room for the skill in my back bar, since I'm not really built to stand my ground. RAT, cloak, siphoning strikes, healing ward, and shade are more essential than refreshing path. I still want to make a dot based tanky magblade build though and I think refreshing path would be essential on that.

Maulkin

HaruKamui wrote: »

Refreshing path is indeed good! Unfortunately I don't have any room for the skill in my back bar, since I'm not really built to stand my ground. RAT, cloak, siphoning strikes, healing ward, and shade are more essential than refreshing path. I still want to make a dot based tanky magblade build though and I think refreshing path would be essential on that.

That's pretty much what I play. Debilitate, Entropy, Lotus Fan, Poisons, Zaan... you get a lot of DoT dmg ticking. And you still have some burst with a Soul Harvest-> Fear->Merciless combo. Then Path, Regeneration, Swallow Soul and Merciless will provide decent heals while you grind your opponent down.

But obviously gotta be careful about being staying in fights too long and getting outnumbered. It's a build with a lot of constant pressure that can slug it out and win fights, but it doesn't have the crazy burst dmg that can take an opponent from 100->0 in 2-3 secs allowing you to pick off opponents quickly. You will fail to kill most tanky or elusive opponents that simply chose to run around LOS obstacles instead of fighting. And you'll have to make your peace with that instead of over-extending.

Iskiab

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

Read his post again. He only needs to cast it every 4 seconds. 2x 1500 = 3000. His path costs 3.200 so he only loses 200 magicka. Like really I don't get why you think it is hard to sustain. 3.2k is really not much and on light armor its even better.

Also what you all forget is that refreshing path + phantasmal escape brings more than just mobility and heals. It also brings group utility, major evasion AND shadow passives which you need to get from another skill if you dont use path, which will end up costing you more magicka.

You don’t get 4 seconds of major expedition from refreshing path, you get just under 4 seconds. If you want to maintain major expedition you need to cast it every 3 seconds.

The example I was using was every 3 seconds, so 1k a second to maintain the expedition. Either way the point I was making is right, to maintain expedition and use refreshing to get around you’re sacrificing all your recovery and going into your next engagement lower magicka.

The healing has been improved, but the cost has been at the expense of using the ability for getting around with major expedition.

zammo

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

Read his post again. He only needs to cast it every 4 seconds. 2x 1500 = 3000. His path costs 3.200 so he only loses 200 magicka. Like really I don't get why you think it is hard to sustain. 3.2k is really not much and on light armor its even better.

Also what you all forget is that refreshing path + phantasmal escape brings more than just mobility and heals. It also brings group utility, major evasion AND shadow passives which you need to get from another skill if you dont use path, which will end up costing you more magicka.

You don’t get 4 seconds of major expedition from refreshing path, you get just under 4 seconds. If you want to maintain major expedition you need to cast it every 3 seconds.

The example I was using was every 3 seconds, so 1k a second to maintain the expedition. Either way the point I was making is right, to maintain expedition and use refreshing to get around you’re sacrificing all your recovery and going into your next engagement lower magicka.

The healing has been improved, but the cost has been at the expense of using the ability for getting around with major expedition.

You maintain ~3.9s of major expedition after leaving the path. Nobody is making you jump straight off the thing. you can activate it, and run the length of the path, then still have 3.9s of major expedition when you leave it at the end. Oh, and then seeing as the path has a 12 second duration, you can even go back to it, and get major expedition refreshed again for no extra cost. It's easily one of the best sources of major expedition there is.

My point is if you're using it as an escape tool, you can cast it, run in a straight line down the thing (at least a couple of seconds even when sprinting), and then even after you leave the path you've still got that full 3.9s to run as far as you can. You're talking at least 6 seconds sprinting with major expedition, have you seen how far that will take you?

But then that's not even the beauty of the skill. Fight on the path. that 3.9s when you step off the path allows you to literally run circles around your opponent while refreshing the buff every time you step back onto the path, for the full 12 second duration.

And it's healing has now been buffed to semi respectable levels.

Even before this patch I never understood the amount of hate this skill gets.

ScruffyWhiskers

I've been goofing around with ref path and it's not bad. I go mist for a little distance, block cancel, hit path then bar swap to cloak. The fun is the psychological effect of the path. You can go straight or veer off quickly. Opponents sometimes think it is a ground AoE so they hesitate to enter.

Of course it's not fool proof. I've been swatted a bunch of times by Temps jabbing and sweeping, Stam Sorcs hurricaning, and streaking mag sorcs, all with detect pots. It does seem to be a decent alternative to investing heavily into swift and steed.

It also gives me some way to contribute when chasing a ball group around a keep besides AP for getting run over when it reverses.

Koensol

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

Read his post again. He only needs to cast it every 4 seconds. 2x 1500 = 3000. His path costs 3.200 so he only loses 200 magicka. Like really I don't get why you think it is hard to sustain. 3.2k is really not much and on light armor its even better.

Also what you all forget is that refreshing path + phantasmal escape brings more than just mobility and heals. It also brings group utility, major evasion AND shadow passives which you need to get from another skill if you dont use path, which will end up costing you more magicka.

You don’t get 4 seconds of major expedition from refreshing path, you get just under 4 seconds. If you want to maintain major expedition you need to cast it every 3 seconds.

The example I was using was every 3 seconds, so 1k a second to maintain the expedition. Either way the point I was making is right, to maintain expedition and use refreshing to get around you’re sacrificing all your recovery and going into your next engagement lower magicka.

The healing has been improved, but the cost has been at the expense of using the ability for getting around with major expedition.

Thats just plain wrong though. If you follow the path without sprinting and then leave it at the end you will have almost exactly 5 seconds of major expedition. And since you also get shadow passives buff you dont need to cast additional skills to keep buffed which will drain a lot more resources. Especially in light armor this is a big positive.

Maulkin

zammo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

Read his post again. He only needs to cast it every 4 seconds. 2x 1500 = 3000. His path costs 3.200 so he only loses 200 magicka. Like really I don't get why you think it is hard to sustain. 3.2k is really not much and on light armor its even better.

Also what you all forget is that refreshing path + phantasmal escape brings more than just mobility and heals. It also brings group utility, major evasion AND shadow passives which you need to get from another skill if you dont use path, which will end up costing you more magicka.

You don’t get 4 seconds of major expedition from refreshing path, you get just under 4 seconds. If you want to maintain major expedition you need to cast it every 3 seconds.

The example I was using was every 3 seconds, so 1k a second to maintain the expedition. Either way the point I was making is right, to maintain expedition and use refreshing to get around you’re sacrificing all your recovery and going into your next engagement lower magicka.

The healing has been improved, but the cost has been at the expense of using the ability for getting around with major expedition.

You maintain ~3.9s of major expedition after leaving the path. Nobody is making you jump straight off the thing. you can activate it, and run the length of the path, then still have 3.9s of major expedition when you leave it at the end. Oh, and then seeing as the path has a 12 second duration, you can even go back to it, and get major expedition refreshed again for no extra cost. It's easily one of the best sources of major expedition there is.

My point is if you're using it as an escape tool, you can cast it, run in a straight line down the thing (at least a couple of seconds even when sprinting), and then even after you leave the path you've still got that full 3.9s to run as far as you can. You're talking at least 6 seconds sprinting with major expedition, have you seen how far that will take you?

But then that's not even the beauty of the skill. Fight on the path. that 3.9s when you step off the path allows you to literally run circles around your opponent while refreshing the buff every time you step back onto the path, for the full 12 second duration.

And it's healing has now been buffed to semi respectable levels.

Even before this patch I never understood the amount of hate this skill gets.

I do have a gripe about it to be honest.

The path is long but quite narrow. It’s very easy to step off it and stop receiving the heals when fighting in an area. It’s a bit like walking a tight rope some times, trying to stay on it. Compare that with other ground heals like Healing Springs or Extended ritual which are a lot more reliable.

Twisting Path is a lot nicer is terms of area coverage. Personally I think that both morphs and the base skill should all be conal. With one morph doing aoe heals and the other aoe dmg. It would be a nice boost to MagBlade healers too.

GhostofDatthaw

Meanwhile Templars get a massive aoe dot, hot, purge, snare, purge synnergy...

Iskiab

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

Read his post again. He only needs to cast it every 4 seconds. 2x 1500 = 3000. His path costs 3.200 so he only loses 200 magicka. Like really I don't get why you think it is hard to sustain. 3.2k is really not much and on light armor its even better.

Also what you all forget is that refreshing path + phantasmal escape brings more than just mobility and heals. It also brings group utility, major evasion AND shadow passives which you need to get from another skill if you dont use path, which will end up costing you more magicka.

You don’t get 4 seconds of major expedition from refreshing path, you get just under 4 seconds. If you want to maintain major expedition you need to cast it every 3 seconds.

The example I was using was every 3 seconds, so 1k a second to maintain the expedition. Either way the point I was making is right, to maintain expedition and use refreshing to get around you’re sacrificing all your recovery and going into your next engagement lower magicka.

The healing has been improved, but the cost has been at the expense of using the ability for getting around with major expedition.

Thats just plain wrong though. If you follow the path without sprinting and then leave it at the end you will have almost exactly 5 seconds of major expedition. And since you also get shadow passives buff you dont need to cast additional skills to keep buffed which will drain a lot more resources. Especially in light armor this is a big positive.

That’s not true unless they changed it again. The buff doesn’t refresh whenever you leave the path. The buff refreshes once every second, and if you leave the path before the one second’s up it doesn’t refresh. Plus if you run in a straight line and cast the ability you will run off the end of the path before the ability refreshes, so it’s still 3.9 seconds.

I think you guys are just arguing for the sake of it. When I used refreshing path before when it was cheaper and the hot lingered as long as the expedition buff people were adamant it was bad. Now the cost went up 50% and the heal is almost double what it was, but the hot doesn’t linger and people say it’s a great source of expedition...

Insco851

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Meanwhile Templars get a massive aoe dot, hot, purge, snare, purge synnergy...

Worst snare in the game mind you. My absolute least favorite thing to deal with is that snare when fighting plars. And they are EVERYWHERE RIGHT NOW. Everywhere you walk, another cleanse that slows you down. And another and another and another.

I’ve also experienced a bug where a friendly cleanse would snare me even. ONLY THE BEST LOL

Jeezye

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Meanwhile Templars get a massive aoe dot, hot, purge, snare, purge synnergy...

Exactly this. ZOS doesn’t stick to any rules they make and this inconsistency is driving me nuts. Path was a good skill when it had damage AND healing, they just completely scrapped the damage part, upped the healing part but still the healing uptime is *** compared to ritual - without the strongest purge in the game. Talking about overloaded skills smh.

Same with swallow soul btw, no one called to remove vitality ffs

Iskiab

Jeezye wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Meanwhile Templars get a massive aoe dot, hot, purge, snare, purge synnergy...

Exactly this. ZOS doesn’t stick to any rules they make and this inconsistency is driving me nuts. Path was a good skill when it had damage AND healing, they just completely scrapped the damage part, upped the healing part but still the healing uptime is *** compared to ritual - without the strongest purge in the game. Talking about overloaded skills smh.

Same with swallow soul btw, no one called to remove vitality ffs

Well, if Templars get an OP iconic ability I’m good with it. It’s like cloak, no one has an ability that’s comparable it’s fine. If Templars don’t have an ability that says ‘this is what it means to be a templar’ then why play one? You can’t comparable abilities directly.

With that being said, snare removal would be nice since it’s a pain point in the game. Living dark slightly decreased I’m okay with too, nothing more or it’ll be back to Templar’s being at the bottom with magblades.

Rianai

The heal from path is actually lower than last patch, because they removed the additional ticks, which were granting up to 40% more healing, while the heal per tick got only buffed by ~ 30%.

Iskiab

Rianai wrote: »

The heal from path is actually lower than last patch, because they removed the additional ticks, which were granting up to 40% more healing, while the heal per tick got only buffed by ~ 30%.

I missed that bit, can you clarify? So you mean missing ticks if you leave the path right away? I took the patch notes at face value where it said the per tick was buffed ~80%. I noticed it’s around 1k per tick now but didn’t pay attention to details.

GhostofDatthaw

Iskiab wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The heal from path is actually lower than last patch, because they removed the additional ticks, which were granting up to 40% more healing, while the heal per tick got only buffed by ~ 30%.

I missed that bit, can you clarify? So you mean missing ticks if you leave the path right away? I took the patch notes at face value where it said the per tick was buffed ~80%. I noticed it’s around 1k per tick now but didn’t pay attention to details.

Path, if I'm correct, was bugged last patch and would tick 2x as frequently. At least I think that's what it was.

In terms of path also, the damage removal was a pve nerf but it needed a replacement not just a removal. I had been saying g for like 2years path needs snare removal and they give it to double take.

Koensol

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

Read his post again. He only needs to cast it every 4 seconds. 2x 1500 = 3000. His path costs 3.200 so he only loses 200 magicka. Like really I don't get why you think it is hard to sustain. 3.2k is really not much and on light armor its even better.

Also what you all forget is that refreshing path + phantasmal escape brings more than just mobility and heals. It also brings group utility, major evasion AND shadow passives which you need to get from another skill if you dont use path, which will end up costing you more magicka.

You don’t get 4 seconds of major expedition from refreshing path, you get just under 4 seconds. If you want to maintain major expedition you need to cast it every 3 seconds.

The example I was using was every 3 seconds, so 1k a second to maintain the expedition. Either way the point I was making is right, to maintain expedition and use refreshing to get around you’re sacrificing all your recovery and going into your next engagement lower magicka.

The healing has been improved, but the cost has been at the expense of using the ability for getting around with major expedition.

Thats just plain wrong though. If you follow the path without sprinting and then leave it at the end you will have almost exactly 5 seconds of major expedition. And since you also get shadow passives buff you dont need to cast additional skills to keep buffed which will drain a lot more resources. Especially in light armor this is a big positive.

That’s not true unless they changed it again. The buff doesn’t refresh whenever you leave the path. The buff refreshes once every second, and if you leave the path before the one second’s up it doesn’t refresh. Plus if you run in a straight line and cast the ability you will run off the end of the path before the ability refreshes, so it’s still 3.9 seconds.

I think you guys are just arguing for the sake of it. When I used refreshing path before when it was cheaper and the hot lingered as long as the expedition buff people were adamant it was bad. Now the cost went up 50% and the heal is almost double what it was, but the hot doesn’t linger and people say it’s a great source of expedition...

Test it for yourself... Its 5 seconds without sprinting. I literally tested it 10+ times today to be sure. And I don't know about anyone else, but for me refreshing path has always been my favourite nb ability. I never said it was bad.

Iskiab

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

Read his post again. He only needs to cast it every 4 seconds. 2x 1500 = 3000. His path costs 3.200 so he only loses 200 magicka. Like really I don't get why you think it is hard to sustain. 3.2k is really not much and on light armor its even better.

Also what you all forget is that refreshing path + phantasmal escape brings more than just mobility and heals. It also brings group utility, major evasion AND shadow passives which you need to get from another skill if you dont use path, which will end up costing you more magicka.

You don’t get 4 seconds of major expedition from refreshing path, you get just under 4 seconds. If you want to maintain major expedition you need to cast it every 3 seconds.

The example I was using was every 3 seconds, so 1k a second to maintain the expedition. Either way the point I was making is right, to maintain expedition and use refreshing to get around you’re sacrificing all your recovery and going into your next engagement lower magicka.

The healing has been improved, but the cost has been at the expense of using the ability for getting around with major expedition.

Thats just plain wrong though. If you follow the path without sprinting and then leave it at the end you will have almost exactly 5 seconds of major expedition. And since you also get shadow passives buff you dont need to cast additional skills to keep buffed which will drain a lot more resources. Especially in light armor this is a big positive.

That’s not true unless they changed it again. The buff doesn’t refresh whenever you leave the path. The buff refreshes once every second, and if you leave the path before the one second’s up it doesn’t refresh. Plus if you run in a straight line and cast the ability you will run off the end of the path before the ability refreshes, so it’s still 3.9 seconds.

I think you guys are just arguing for the sake of it. When I used refreshing path before when it was cheaper and the hot lingered as long as the expedition buff people were adamant it was bad. Now the cost went up 50% and the heal is almost double what it was, but the hot doesn’t linger and people say it’s a great source of expedition...

Test it for yourself... Its 5 seconds without sprinting. I literally tested it 10+ times today to be sure. And I don't know about anyone else, but for me refreshing path has always been my favourite nb ability. I never said it was bad.

I’ll test it again. There have been a lot of times where I tested and noted how an ability works and then was wrong on the forums because they stealth changed it without a patch note. It would be nice if it was true, that would increase the efficiency to 4.5 seconds of expedition per cast (if you recast it right before it drops) so it’s 750 magicka per second. Things like that seem small, but the devil’s in the details and they add up.

brandonv516

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

Read his post again. He only needs to cast it every 4 seconds. 2x 1500 = 3000. His path costs 3.200 so he only loses 200 magicka. Like really I don't get why you think it is hard to sustain. 3.2k is really not much and on light armor its even better.

Also what you all forget is that refreshing path + phantasmal escape brings more than just mobility and heals. It also brings group utility, major evasion AND shadow passives which you need to get from another skill if you dont use path, which will end up costing you more magicka.

You don’t get 4 seconds of major expedition from refreshing path, you get just under 4 seconds. If you want to maintain major expedition you need to cast it every 3 seconds.

The example I was using was every 3 seconds, so 1k a second to maintain the expedition. Either way the point I was making is right, to maintain expedition and use refreshing to get around you’re sacrificing all your recovery and going into your next engagement lower magicka.

The healing has been improved, but the cost has been at the expense of using the ability for getting around with major expedition.

Thats just plain wrong though. If you follow the path without sprinting and then leave it at the end you will have almost exactly 5 seconds of major expedition. And since you also get shadow passives buff you dont need to cast additional skills to keep buffed which will drain a lot more resources. Especially in light armor this is a big positive.

That’s not true unless they changed it again. The buff doesn’t refresh whenever you leave the path. The buff refreshes once every second, and if you leave the path before the one second’s up it doesn’t refresh. Plus if you run in a straight line and cast the ability you will run off the end of the path before the ability refreshes, so it’s still 3.9 seconds.

I think you guys are just arguing for the sake of it. When I used refreshing path before when it was cheaper and the hot lingered as long as the expedition buff people were adamant it was bad. Now the cost went up 50% and the heal is almost double what it was, but the hot doesn’t linger and people say it’s a great source of expedition...

Test it for yourself... Its 5 seconds without sprinting. I literally tested it 10+ times today to be sure. And I don't know about anyone else, but for me refreshing path has always been my favourite nb ability. I never said it was bad.

I like the skill but I can't justify giving up two skill slots in lieu of RaT on my damage NB.

I know Refresh Path heals also but I have that on lockdown with Rapid Regen.

On my healer NB I do run it with Phantasm Escape though, as bar space isn't as limited.

Iskiab

brandonv516 wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

Read his post again. He only needs to cast it every 4 seconds. 2x 1500 = 3000. His path costs 3.200 so he only loses 200 magicka. Like really I don't get why you think it is hard to sustain. 3.2k is really not much and on light armor its even better.

Also what you all forget is that refreshing path + phantasmal escape brings more than just mobility and heals. It also brings group utility, major evasion AND shadow passives which you need to get from another skill if you dont use path, which will end up costing you more magicka.

You don’t get 4 seconds of major expedition from refreshing path, you get just under 4 seconds. If you want to maintain major expedition you need to cast it every 3 seconds.

The example I was using was every 3 seconds, so 1k a second to maintain the expedition. Either way the point I was making is right, to maintain expedition and use refreshing to get around you’re sacrificing all your recovery and going into your next engagement lower magicka.

The healing has been improved, but the cost has been at the expense of using the ability for getting around with major expedition.

Thats just plain wrong though. If you follow the path without sprinting and then leave it at the end you will have almost exactly 5 seconds of major expedition. And since you also get shadow passives buff you dont need to cast additional skills to keep buffed which will drain a lot more resources. Especially in light armor this is a big positive.

That’s not true unless they changed it again. The buff doesn’t refresh whenever you leave the path. The buff refreshes once every second, and if you leave the path before the one second’s up it doesn’t refresh. Plus if you run in a straight line and cast the ability you will run off the end of the path before the ability refreshes, so it’s still 3.9 seconds.

I think you guys are just arguing for the sake of it. When I used refreshing path before when it was cheaper and the hot lingered as long as the expedition buff people were adamant it was bad. Now the cost went up 50% and the heal is almost double what it was, but the hot doesn’t linger and people say it’s a great source of expedition...

Test it for yourself... Its 5 seconds without sprinting. I literally tested it 10+ times today to be sure. And I don't know about anyone else, but for me refreshing path has always been my favourite nb ability. I never said it was bad.

I like the skill but I can't justify giving up two skill slots in lieu of RaT on my damage NB.

I know Refresh Path heals also but I have that on lockdown with Rapid Regen.

On my healer NB I do run it with Phantasm Escape though, as bar space isn't as limited.

Really? I find bar space more limited as a healer, but I try to heal and do damage. I find helping push is beneficial and sniping kills with impale is great.

zammo

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

Read his post again. He only needs to cast it every 4 seconds. 2x 1500 = 3000. His path costs 3.200 so he only loses 200 magicka. Like really I don't get why you think it is hard to sustain. 3.2k is really not much and on light armor its even better.

Also what you all forget is that refreshing path + phantasmal escape brings more than just mobility and heals. It also brings group utility, major evasion AND shadow passives which you need to get from another skill if you dont use path, which will end up costing you more magicka.

You don’t get 4 seconds of major expedition from refreshing path, you get just under 4 seconds. If you want to maintain major expedition you need to cast it every 3 seconds.

The example I was using was every 3 seconds, so 1k a second to maintain the expedition. Either way the point I was making is right, to maintain expedition and use refreshing to get around you’re sacrificing all your recovery and going into your next engagement lower magicka.

The healing has been improved, but the cost has been at the expense of using the ability for getting around with major expedition.

Thats just plain wrong though. If you follow the path without sprinting and then leave it at the end you will have almost exactly 5 seconds of major expedition. And since you also get shadow passives buff you dont need to cast additional skills to keep buffed which will drain a lot more resources. Especially in light armor this is a big positive.

That’s not true unless they changed it again. The buff doesn’t refresh whenever you leave the path. The buff refreshes once every second, and if you leave the path before the one second’s up it doesn’t refresh. Plus if you run in a straight line and cast the ability you will run off the end of the path before the ability refreshes, so it’s still 3.9 seconds.

I think you guys are just arguing for the sake of it. When I used refreshing path before when it was cheaper and the hot lingered as long as the expedition buff people were adamant it was bad. Now the cost went up 50% and the heal is almost double what it was, but the hot doesn’t linger and people say it’s a great source of expedition...

Test it for yourself... Its 5 seconds without sprinting. I literally tested it 10+ times today to be sure. And I don't know about anyone else, but for me refreshing path has always been my favourite nb ability. I never said it was bad.

I’ll test it again. There have been a lot of times where I tested and noted how an ability works and then was wrong on the forums because they stealth changed it without a patch note. It would be nice if it was true, that would increase the efficiency to 4.5 seconds of expedition per cast (if you recast it right before it drops) so it’s 750 magicka per second. Things like that seem small, but the devil’s in the details and they add up.

Why do you keep throwing out these false numbers? Use the skill as per it's design and you can have 16 seconds of major expedition for a single cast.

Koensol

brandonv516 wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

Read his post again. He only needs to cast it every 4 seconds. 2x 1500 = 3000. His path costs 3.200 so he only loses 200 magicka. Like really I don't get why you think it is hard to sustain. 3.2k is really not much and on light armor its even better.

Also what you all forget is that refreshing path + phantasmal escape brings more than just mobility and heals. It also brings group utility, major evasion AND shadow passives which you need to get from another skill if you dont use path, which will end up costing you more magicka.

You don’t get 4 seconds of major expedition from refreshing path, you get just under 4 seconds. If you want to maintain major expedition you need to cast it every 3 seconds.

The example I was using was every 3 seconds, so 1k a second to maintain the expedition. Either way the point I was making is right, to maintain expedition and use refreshing to get around you’re sacrificing all your recovery and going into your next engagement lower magicka.

The healing has been improved, but the cost has been at the expense of using the ability for getting around with major expedition.

Thats just plain wrong though. If you follow the path without sprinting and then leave it at the end you will have almost exactly 5 seconds of major expedition. And since you also get shadow passives buff you dont need to cast additional skills to keep buffed which will drain a lot more resources. Especially in light armor this is a big positive.

That’s not true unless they changed it again. The buff doesn’t refresh whenever you leave the path. The buff refreshes once every second, and if you leave the path before the one second’s up it doesn’t refresh. Plus if you run in a straight line and cast the ability you will run off the end of the path before the ability refreshes, so it’s still 3.9 seconds.

I think you guys are just arguing for the sake of it. When I used refreshing path before when it was cheaper and the hot lingered as long as the expedition buff people were adamant it was bad. Now the cost went up 50% and the heal is almost double what it was, but the hot doesn’t linger and people say it’s a great source of expedition...

Test it for yourself... Its 5 seconds without sprinting. I literally tested it 10+ times today to be sure. And I don't know about anyone else, but for me refreshing path has always been my favourite nb ability. I never said it was bad.

I like the skill but I can't justify giving up two skill slots in lieu of RaT on my damage NB.

I know Refresh Path heals also but I have that on lockdown with Rapid Regen.

On my healer NB I do run it with Phantasm Escape though, as bar space isn't as limited.

Sure it doesn't fit on every build. On some RAT definately is better. Builds that use cloak for example. But for any builds trying to brawl or move with the group and try to be useful, I'd always use path + phantasmal.

I never liked cloakblade myself because healing always sucked and in the situation where someone negates your stealth you are screwed. I'd rather die to a zerg, knowing I was heavily outnumbered, than to 2 baddies who use detect pots/mark, etc. on you countering most of your defence. I haven't tried it this patch yet though with rapid regen. Maybe it is not that bad now.

GhostofDatthaw

Koensol wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

Read his post again. He only needs to cast it every 4 seconds. 2x 1500 = 3000. His path costs 3.200 so he only loses 200 magicka. Like really I don't get why you think it is hard to sustain. 3.2k is really not much and on light armor its even better.

Also what you all forget is that refreshing path + phantasmal escape brings more than just mobility and heals. It also brings group utility, major evasion AND shadow passives which you need to get from another skill if you dont use path, which will end up costing you more magicka.

You don’t get 4 seconds of major expedition from refreshing path, you get just under 4 seconds. If you want to maintain major expedition you need to cast it every 3 seconds.

The example I was using was every 3 seconds, so 1k a second to maintain the expedition. Either way the point I was making is right, to maintain expedition and use refreshing to get around you’re sacrificing all your recovery and going into your next engagement lower magicka.

The healing has been improved, but the cost has been at the expense of using the ability for getting around with major expedition.

Thats just plain wrong though. If you follow the path without sprinting and then leave it at the end you will have almost exactly 5 seconds of major expedition. And since you also get shadow passives buff you dont need to cast additional skills to keep buffed which will drain a lot more resources. Especially in light armor this is a big positive.

That’s not true unless they changed it again. The buff doesn’t refresh whenever you leave the path. The buff refreshes once every second, and if you leave the path before the one second’s up it doesn’t refresh. Plus if you run in a straight line and cast the ability you will run off the end of the path before the ability refreshes, so it’s still 3.9 seconds.

I think you guys are just arguing for the sake of it. When I used refreshing path before when it was cheaper and the hot lingered as long as the expedition buff people were adamant it was bad. Now the cost went up 50% and the heal is almost double what it was, but the hot doesn’t linger and people say it’s a great source of expedition...

Test it for yourself... Its 5 seconds without sprinting. I literally tested it 10+ times today to be sure. And I don't know about anyone else, but for me refreshing path has always been my favourite nb ability. I never said it was bad.

I like the skill but I can't justify giving up two skill slots in lieu of RaT on my damage NB.

I know Refresh Path heals also but I have that on lockdown with Rapid Regen.

On my healer NB I do run it with Phantasm Escape though, as bar space isn't as limited.

Sure it doesn't fit on every build. On some RAT definately is better. Builds that use cloak for example. But for any builds trying to brawl or move with the group and try to be useful, I'd always use path + phantasmal.

I never liked cloakblade myself because healing always sucked and in the situation where someone negates your stealth you are screwed. I'd rather die to a zerg, knowing I was heavily outnumbered, than to 2 baddies who use detect pots/mark, etc. on you countering most of your defence. I haven't tried it this patch yet though with rapid regen. Maybe it is not that bad now.

Yeah brawler blades are a lot of fun and phantismal and path work very well with that spec. As far as a cloak blade goes, as of this patch I disagree about the "squishyness" of that spec. I tweaked alot of my cp around and with btb/spinner/balorg I'm actually pretty Tanky and can roll. I get into solo fights or 1v2 and I can "tank" but just in a different way. Cloak dodges and rolls with shade reposition and you can make people look stupid right before you lay down the hammer.

Iskiab

zammo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

Read his post again. He only needs to cast it every 4 seconds. 2x 1500 = 3000. His path costs 3.200 so he only loses 200 magicka. Like really I don't get why you think it is hard to sustain. 3.2k is really not much and on light armor its even better.

Also what you all forget is that refreshing path + phantasmal escape brings more than just mobility and heals. It also brings group utility, major evasion AND shadow passives which you need to get from another skill if you dont use path, which will end up costing you more magicka.

You don’t get 4 seconds of major expedition from refreshing path, you get just under 4 seconds. If you want to maintain major expedition you need to cast it every 3 seconds.

The example I was using was every 3 seconds, so 1k a second to maintain the expedition. Either way the point I was making is right, to maintain expedition and use refreshing to get around you’re sacrificing all your recovery and going into your next engagement lower magicka.

The healing has been improved, but the cost has been at the expense of using the ability for getting around with major expedition.

Thats just plain wrong though. If you follow the path without sprinting and then leave it at the end you will have almost exactly 5 seconds of major expedition. And since you also get shadow passives buff you dont need to cast additional skills to keep buffed which will drain a lot more resources. Especially in light armor this is a big positive.

That’s not true unless they changed it again. The buff doesn’t refresh whenever you leave the path. The buff refreshes once every second, and if you leave the path before the one second’s up it doesn’t refresh. Plus if you run in a straight line and cast the ability you will run off the end of the path before the ability refreshes, so it’s still 3.9 seconds.

I think you guys are just arguing for the sake of it. When I used refreshing path before when it was cheaper and the hot lingered as long as the expedition buff people were adamant it was bad. Now the cost went up 50% and the heal is almost double what it was, but the hot doesn’t linger and people say it’s a great source of expedition...

Test it for yourself... Its 5 seconds without sprinting. I literally tested it 10+ times today to be sure. And I don't know about anyone else, but for me refreshing path has always been my favourite nb ability. I never said it was bad.

I’ll test it again. There have been a lot of times where I tested and noted how an ability works and then was wrong on the forums because they stealth changed it without a patch note. It would be nice if it was true, that would increase the efficiency to 4.5 seconds of expedition per cast (if you recast it right before it drops) so it’s 750 magicka per second. Things like that seem small, but the devil’s in the details and they add up.

Why do you keep throwing out these false numbers? Use the skill as per it's design and you can have 16 seconds of major expedition for a single cast.

Because expedition means you’re going somewhere. If you’re going to sit in the path, then

zammo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

Read his post again. He only needs to cast it every 4 seconds. 2x 1500 = 3000. His path costs 3.200 so he only loses 200 magicka. Like really I don't get why you think it is hard to sustain. 3.2k is really not much and on light armor its even better.

Also what you all forget is that refreshing path + phantasmal escape brings more than just mobility and heals. It also brings group utility, major evasion AND shadow passives which you need to get from another skill if you dont use path, which will end up costing you more magicka.

You don’t get 4 seconds of major expedition from refreshing path, you get just under 4 seconds. If you want to maintain major expedition you need to cast it every 3 seconds.

The example I was using was every 3 seconds, so 1k a second to maintain the expedition. Either way the point I was making is right, to maintain expedition and use refreshing to get around you’re sacrificing all your recovery and going into your next engagement lower magicka.

The healing has been improved, but the cost has been at the expense of using the ability for getting around with major expedition.

Thats just plain wrong though. If you follow the path without sprinting and then leave it at the end you will have almost exactly 5 seconds of major expedition. And since you also get shadow passives buff you dont need to cast additional skills to keep buffed which will drain a lot more resources. Especially in light armor this is a big positive.

That’s not true unless they changed it again. The buff doesn’t refresh whenever you leave the path. The buff refreshes once every second, and if you leave the path before the one second’s up it doesn’t refresh. Plus if you run in a straight line and cast the ability you will run off the end of the path before the ability refreshes, so it’s still 3.9 seconds.

I think you guys are just arguing for the sake of it. When I used refreshing path before when it was cheaper and the hot lingered as long as the expedition buff people were adamant it was bad. Now the cost went up 50% and the heal is almost double what it was, but the hot doesn’t linger and people say it’s a great source of expedition...

Test it for yourself... Its 5 seconds without sprinting. I literally tested it 10+ times today to be sure. And I don't know about anyone else, but for me refreshing path has always been my favourite nb ability. I never said it was bad.

I’ll test it again. There have been a lot of times where I tested and noted how an ability works and then was wrong on the forums because they stealth changed it without a patch note. It would be nice if it was true, that would increase the efficiency to 4.5 seconds of expedition per cast (if you recast it right before it drops) so it’s 750 magicka per second. Things like that seem small, but the devil’s in the details and they add up.

Why do you keep throwing out these false numbers? Use the skill as per it's design and you can have 16 seconds of major expedition for a single cast.

Because we’re talking about using refreshing path for a source of major expedition to go somewhere. Potential uptime of major expedition is irrelevant.

fred4

Koensol wrote: »

I never liked cloakblade myself because healing always sucked

It still does. Not since cloak made it all crit has healing been really good on magblade, IMO.

and in the situation where someone negates your stealth you are screwed.

It is tough, or specifically detect potions are tough. I use Dampen and Healing Ward in those situations. It is not a great defense in my build, but if you were stacking magicka, things might be different. NB gets the same mag-stacking passives as warden. My magden (50K to 58K mag in CP) has always felt eminently viable with just shields. I use Dampen, Regen and Living Trellis on that character. Trellis is an awfully good skill, but Dampen + Healing Ward + Regen (the 10 sec morph) + vMA or BRP resto should come close.

There are really two reasons why detect potions, in particular, are so diabolical. One is that you need experience to immediately tell when someone has used one. The second is that you get totally dependent on cloak. I keep saying - and I do believe this - that a cloaking NB plays better in open spaces than in confined ones. As long as cloak works you have more directions in which to escape, making you less predictable, and the enemy can't cover it all with AOE. When cloak stops working, what catches you out is that you must suddenly drastically change your playstyle, but basically all that means is you have to LoS, just like everyone else. And you can keep cloaking for the Concealed speed bonus. You might not be tanky, but if you built for speed, you are still fast. That said, it's a juggling act between knowing when to cloak and when to shield.

I tend to be aware of LoS opportunities, even when I'm perma-cloaking. Sometimes cloak fails, for example due to lag. If you are staking out a group, it's better to be behind a tree or a column in IC, so they don't immediately spot you. Again, speed helps so much as you aim to stay well away from spaces where a sorc might streak or some AOE might detect you, yet you can quickly close the gap when an opportunity arises, such as a player momentarily separating from the group.

I'd rather die to a zerg, knowing I was heavily outnumbered, than to 2 baddies who use detect pots/mark, etc. on you countering most of your defence.

Fair enough, but that doesn't happen all that often and it's from a fairly privileged position a cloaking nightblade feels that way. We like to be in control of the fight. No other class even has that luxury, other than perhaps a streaking sorc. If you run into two equally skilled players, they should kill you, if you face them head on. I get what you're saying. If you're very tanky you might stand your ground and, if you just play for defense (Mist Form, LoS, etc.), you might do so as well. However, my point is that a magblade isn't completely screwed when cloak fails. Depending on your build, you have shields, speed, the shade, dodge rolls (me), Temporal Guard and so on. LoS is perhaps the strongest of all counters and is available to everyone.

P.S.: I forgot to emphasize that Shadowy suppresses DOT damage. Kind of a big deal, this patch.