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Tired of "fake tanks" in random queues
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Wispsister✭✭✭Facefister wrote: »As long as there are fake DDs, there will be fake tanks. Deal with it. I won't take a 45 minutes tour through my daily random when I can burn through it with slotted vigor and inner fire in 10 minutes
Deal with it? I hope you weren't under the impression that I'm okay with any "fake" role. You're in that group with 3 other people, and you have a job to fill. It's selfish to intentionally make yourself a burden, no matter what you're playing.
That said, I assume you mean DPS that don't do that much dps. Which is more passable imo anyways since most of the penalty there is things take a bit longer to die. As opposed to a fake tank/healer that will actually contribute to other people dying way more frequently because they aren't doing their jobs.Edited by Wispsister on August 30, 2019 11:59PM13 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For all the "normal dungeons don't need tanks" players...
Random Normal Dungeons often have:- New players
- Players running the dungeon for the first time
- Players who don't know the mechanics
- Low Level characters who don't have great builds
- Low Level characters who don't have good self-healing yet
- Players who don't have great DPS and can't just stack n' burn an untaunted boss
- Players who aren't prepared to face tank the boss
Oh, and any level of dungeon can include experienced players who don't want to face tank the boss when that's your job. If we wanted to tank, we would have queued as a tank.
In short, you cannot guarantee that whatever random group the queue puts you with wouldn't benefit from an actual tank who holds boss aggro.
If you queue as tank, even in a random normal, slot a taunt of some sort. Don't expect your random group members to do your job on top of their own.17 -
xbangax✭✭While I do run into fake tanks/healers ALOT . . . its hardly an issue in a random normal. Its a very mild annoyance
I'd say people queuing without food buffs is more annoying than a fake tank2 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Tanks have been successively smashed into the ground, play-wise, sacrificed to the altar of PvP, to the point where overlanding a tank is almost painful.
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bmnoble✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Haven't experienced fake tanks, since I main a tank, keep about a handful of different sets in my inventory to swap out based on the PUG group I end up with.
In most PUG Groups I tend to equip Grothdar, Leeching Plate and Thunderbug, since I never know what I am going to get I assume the worst. Depending on how the group goes, I also keep Ebon Armory and Dragon Guard, Blood Spawn in my inventory. I keep Knight Errant/Battalion Defender/Bahara's Curse and a large assortment of base game monster sets in my bank, rarely use them but got them on hand.
My tanks build more around self sustain than high health, depending on what I have equipped my health varies from 30K - 38K
Front bar is set up as a tank, back bar is set up as a support healer.
Tend to have my front bar: Igneous Shields, Spike armor that gives shield, Chains, Piercing armor, Bone shield(used to slot echoing vigor but figured that players activating the synergy gives them more instant protection allows them to use their own self heal or buy time for the healer)
Back bar: The cheaper health option Altar (instant cast for a little bit of health, increases group survivability while doing damage), Healing Orbs, Cinder Storm, Psijic mediation, Green Dragon Blood.
With that set up on normal tends to make up for a fake healer or just allow the healer to do damage.
Haven't had any complaints only time I get kicked is when my lag spikes does not happen very often but its beyond my control.
But based on the varying skill level of damage dealers I have been in PUG groups with I can understand why people are pissed, I made a point of starting to slot healing skills on my back bar due to how many DPS, seem to drop dead, at the drop of a hat, even while I have the boss/powerful ads occupied.
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Another point I like to add. I am at level 1125 damage dealer and usually in a vet dungeon, I am the highest level. When we get a fake tank, I notice the boss usually come after me(highest level). Is this a coincidence or I am not alone? lol0
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Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm not a tank (I'm supposed to be a Warden DPS), but all the mobs seem to think I am, anyway, despite me wearing medium armour, so it doesn't make much difference, at this point.
I have never queued alone as a fake tank, but have occasionally set myself as tank, since I have reached max level, when queuing for normals with a couple of friends and it has always worked out fine.
When I first came back, the opposite happened, though.
I was asked to do a dungeon with 3 other random people and didn't even realise that the guy who inved us all just assumed I was a tank.
This was despite my health being low and my pet being set as DPS.
I then wondered why no one else was tanking and I think I got called a "useless tank", despite not being a tank, at all and not even realising that I was supposed to be tanking.
At first, I thought he was talking about the person who was supposed to be tanking, but wasn't and it only slowly dawned on me, that he had probably assumed that was me.
He was, supposedly (according to him), an experienced player, who was showing the rest of us the ropes, lol.Edited by Tigerseye on August 31, 2019 12:47AM2 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wispsister wrote: »Honestly the amount of people who queue for tank (and to a lesser degree, healer) in some cases and just do subpar DPS instead of the role they signed up for is super annoying.
If you queue as a tank, just please actually tank. It's common courtesy to do the role you signed up for. I get DPS queues are bad, but I didn't sit in a half-hour long queue either just to die over and over because we don't have a tank redirecting damage.
And before that that "uwu but if it's a normal then who cares" argument crops up, it doesn't matter what difficulty it is. You're still a jerk. Unless you can nuke everything into orbit and "tank" that way, you should just queue with a friend to cut the lines instead. The roles are there for a reason.
If you aren't able to do your portion of the damage.you might as well just tank.0 -
ShellaSunshine✭✭✭I only queue as a "fake" tank if I don't have much time to wait for a dungeon queue but...
It's only on normal and I also slot inner fire and deal 40k dps
It's super rare though. I mostly queue as DD and just quest while waiting for dungeon queue to pop.
I have actually gotten compliments that I tank better than most real tanks.2 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »In my experience, normal dungeons are very likely to have new players, inexperienced players, or low level characters who may not have all their self-healing figured out, don't have the confidence to stand and face tank the boss, who don't have the DPS to stack n burn, and who may not even know the mechanics.
In other words, normal dungeons are very likely to have exactly the sort of players who most benefit from an actual tank who holds aggro on the boss.
"Its just a normal dungeon" isn't a good excuse for queuing as a tank who can't hold aggro.
What about if you're a DPS, who can normally attract and hold aggro, despite not wanting to?0 -
Heatnix90✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »In my experience, normal dungeons are very likely to have new players, inexperienced players, or low level characters who may not have all their self-healing figured out, don't have the confidence to stand and face tank the boss, who don't have the DPS to stack n burn, and who may not even know the mechanics.
In other words, normal dungeons are very likely to have exactly the sort of players who most benefit from an actual tank who holds aggro on the boss.
"Its just a normal dungeon" isn't a good excuse for queuing as a tank who can't hold aggro.
What about if you're a DPS, who can normally attract and hold aggro, despite not wanting to?
Get good and roll magplar/stamsorc/stamplar DPS where you can deal damage and heal yourself reliably. Whenever I queue as a DPS for dungeons I never take Vigor/HtD off my bars, you can never trust pubbies in this game.2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »In my experience, normal dungeons are very likely to have new players, inexperienced players, or low level characters who may not have all their self-healing figured out, don't have the confidence to stand and face tank the boss, who don't have the DPS to stack n burn, and who may not even know the mechanics.
In other words, normal dungeons are very likely to have exactly the sort of players who most benefit from an actual tank who holds aggro on the boss.
"Its just a normal dungeon" isn't a good excuse for queuing as a tank who can't hold aggro.
What about if you're a DPS, who can normally attract and hold aggro, despite not wanting to?
I've played DDs.
I've played a tanky DD with a taunt - both a Stam Sorc with 1H and Shield and a MagSorc with Inner Fire.
If you want to fill the role of tank, you need to hold aggro on the boss so your groupmates never have to face tank. In order to do that properly, you really do need to equip a taunt of some sort.3 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »In my experience, normal dungeons are very likely to have new players, inexperienced players, or low level characters who may not have all their self-healing figured out, don't have the confidence to stand and face tank the boss, who don't have the DPS to stack n burn, and who may not even know the mechanics.
In other words, normal dungeons are very likely to have exactly the sort of players who most benefit from an actual tank who holds aggro on the boss.
"Its just a normal dungeon" isn't a good excuse for queuing as a tank who can't hold aggro.
What about if you're a DPS, who can normally attract and hold aggro, despite not wanting to?
Get good and roll magplar/stamsorc/stamplar DPS where you can deal damage and heal yourself reliably. Whenever I queue as a DPS for dungeons I never take Vigor/HtD off my bars, you can never trust pubbies in this game.
I think you're missing my point.
My point is that if I play a max level, high CP Warden DPS, that often accidentally attracts aggro from the tank, without meaning to (i.e. without taunting), so I end up tanking anyway, what difference does it really make?
I don't queue as fake tank, but I sometimes end up essentially doing it, anyway.
Normally successfully, assuming the healer is OK - plus I have a self heal equipped, anyway.
So, had I queued as fake tank, in the first place, it would have been the same outcome, only with slightly more DPS.
As there wouldn't be a (non aggro-holding) tank there taking up a slot.
Not suggesting I should or would do that, but still.
By the way, rolling a certain class/build is not "getting good". ><Edited by Tigerseye on August 31, 2019 2:34AM0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »In my experience, normal dungeons are very likely to have new players, inexperienced players, or low level characters who may not have all their self-healing figured out, don't have the confidence to stand and face tank the boss, who don't have the DPS to stack n burn, and who may not even know the mechanics.
In other words, normal dungeons are very likely to have exactly the sort of players who most benefit from an actual tank who holds aggro on the boss.
"Its just a normal dungeon" isn't a good excuse for queuing as a tank who can't hold aggro.
What about if you're a DPS, who can normally attract and hold aggro, despite not wanting to?
Get good and roll magplar/stamsorc/stamplar DPS where you can deal damage and heal yourself reliably. Whenever I queue as a DPS for dungeons I never take Vigor/HtD off my bars, you can never trust pubbies in this game.
I think you're missing my point.
My point is that if I play a max level, high CP Warden DPS, that often accidentally attracts aggro from the tank, without meaning to (i.e. without taunting), so I end up tanking anyway, what difference does it really make?
I don't queue as fake tank, but I sometimes end up essentially doing it, anyway.
Normally successfully, assuming the healer is OK - plus I have a self heal equipped, anyway.
So, had I queued as fake tank, in the first place, it would have been the same outcome, only with slightly more DPS.
As there wouldn't be a (non aggro-holding) tank there taking up a slot.
Not suggesting I should or would do that, but still.
By the way, rolling a certain class/build is not "getting good". ><
So, I'm a little confused what you mean by "attracting aggro from the tank without taunting." If a tank has taunted the boss, you cannot pull aggro without using a taunt yourself.
Now, there's a few bosses who can't be taunted, and they'll switch aggro randomly. That's normal. Examples: red phase centurions, Drodda of Icereach, Quintus, Sellestrix (one of her mechanics is to shed taunt via a pseudotaunt, so she can accidently get taunt immunity.)
Also, most bosses have one or two attacks that will focus on someone else other than the tank. Sometimes it's focused on whoever is farthest away, other times its random, but either way, as long as the boss is taunted you should see the boss immediately turn back to the tank. Usually it looks like the boss briefly turns to attack someone else, then heads back to the tank, and its super obvious on jumping bosses. This is normal. ZOS did it so the DDs and healer will stay on their toes.
However, if a tauntable boss is in your face consistently, or the boss is aiming their big attacks at you consistently, or the boss is not returning to the tank after attacking another group member...
Then you probably have a "tank" who isn't either isnt using a taunt or who is slacking on their taunt uptime. So you wind up face-tanking. You aren't attracting aggro away from the tank. Instead, the tank isnt holding aggro with a taunt.
It kinda sucks. I can face tank on my healer and most of my DDs, mostly because my main character is a tank so I know what the boss is going to do. But its still really annoying and makes me wish I'd queued on my actual tank.
The only thing worse than having to face tank is when the boss aggros on someone who can't, and then they panic and run, dragging the boss every which way. I don't blame them- I blame the "tank" who's supppsed to hold aggro with an actual taunt.2 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »In my experience, normal dungeons are very likely to have new players, inexperienced players, or low level characters who may not have all their self-healing figured out, don't have the confidence to stand and face tank the boss, who don't have the DPS to stack n burn, and who may not even know the mechanics.
In other words, normal dungeons are very likely to have exactly the sort of players who most benefit from an actual tank who holds aggro on the boss.
"Its just a normal dungeon" isn't a good excuse for queuing as a tank who can't hold aggro.
What about if you're a DPS, who can normally attract and hold aggro, despite not wanting to?
Get good and roll magplar/stamsorc/stamplar DPS where you can deal damage and heal yourself reliably. Whenever I queue as a DPS for dungeons I never take Vigor/HtD off my bars, you can never trust pubbies in this game.
I think you're missing my point.
My point is that if I play a max level, high CP Warden DPS, that often accidentally attracts aggro from the tank, without meaning to (i.e. without taunting), so I end up tanking anyway, what difference does it really make?
I don't queue as fake tank, but I sometimes end up essentially doing it, anyway.
Normally successfully, assuming the healer is OK - plus I have a self heal equipped, anyway.
So, had I queued as fake tank, in the first place, it would have been the same outcome, only with slightly more DPS.
As there wouldn't be a (non aggro-holding) tank there taking up a slot.
Not suggesting I should or would do that, but still.
By the way, rolling a certain class/build is not "getting good". ><
Are you using an Ice Staff?2 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭From the outside looking in
I'm not a tank. Wouldn't know the first thing about how to effectively play a tank. I don't do dungeons yet either. Only been playing 4 years. Way too much other content that is fun. I'll get around to it... some day.
So, from my perspective - What is the ultimate goal? It should be to beat the final boss and get the loot you are trying for. Now, if this is not happening, and the group constantly fails to complete the dungeon, then I would say 'Yes, something needs to be done'.
But if you are able to complete the dungeon, even though it is more difficult than 'You Think' it 'Should' be, in the big picture, what's the big deal? You get the final boss killed and a chance at the loot you want.
I can understand it being an irritation. It was harder to complete than you expected it would be. But I don't see it as a serious issue.
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Hazurko_RaShan✭✭✭Another person who thinks they know how to play and others don't. You know lots of people like to play for fun so may not be "good" as you think you are.
Heaven forbid people want to play in a public game. After all, if you are so good, how come you are not making millions in cyber sports game? Ore even real life games and become a sports star?
This one thinks about where such things come from0 -
Hazurko_RaShan✭✭✭Another person who thinks they know how to play and others don't. You know lots of people like to play for fun so may not be "good" as you think you are.
Heaven forbid people want to play in a public game. After all, if you are so good, how come you are not making millions in cyber sports game? Ore even real life games and become a sports star?
Found the fake tank.
Almost as fast as spotting the vegan. Although, i feel this game will offer greater entertainment.
Veganism is totally at odds with my Biblically prescribed plant based diet.0 -
Hazurko_RaShan✭✭✭Called out a fank tank in lair of maarselok or whatever it's called. As a healer i am not prepared for tanking a dlc dungeon. Esp one i am just now doing for the first time. I wont do most dlc dungeons before raching cp300 even as a healer. Anyway, everyone died as i am trying to keep myself alive and the fake tank started calling me a fake healer... blows my mind. They all kicked him and then later in another dungeon, same person called me out as a fake healer and refused to not stand in the red. Crazy. 3 times i requed. on time after 20 minutes and still got some of the people from that first dungeon who were like so you're a fake healer huh? get out. i refused. They decided to play and we cleared the dungeon quick. Fake tanks can cause a lot of trouble.6
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regime211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wispsister wrote: »Honestly the amount of people who queue for tank (and to a lesser degree, healer) in some cases and just do subpar DPS instead of the role they signed up for is super annoying.
If you queue as a tank, just please actually tank. It's common courtesy to do the role you signed up for. I get DPS queues are bad, but I didn't sit in a half-hour long queue either just to die over and over because we don't have a tank redirecting damage.
And before that that "uwu but if it's a normal then who cares" argument crops up, it doesn't matter what difficulty it is. You're still a jerk. Unless you can nuke everything into orbit and "tank" that way, you should just queue with a friend to cut the lines instead. The roles are there for a reason.
Well once they fix the activity finder and make it who ever actually wants to DPS doesn't have to wait in a long ass que. Half the time I want to Dps but the godamn activity finder makes me wait a long time so I just que up as a tank instead.1 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭pollywogs1970 wrote: »Another point I like to add. I am at level 1125 damage dealer and usually in a vet dungeon, I am the highest level. When we get a fake tank, I notice the boss usually come after me(highest level). Is this a coincidence or I am not alone? lol
I believe that goes to whoever is doing the highest damage. I've been told and tend to notice a pattern reflecting this.Not in cases of fake tanks though,simply the tank dying and having the highest dps in group consistently.1 -
Hazurko_RaShan✭✭✭Wispsister wrote: »Honestly the amount of people who queue for tank (and to a lesser degree, healer) in some cases and just do subpar DPS instead of the role they signed up for is super annoying.
If you queue as a tank, just please actually tank. It's common courtesy to do the role you signed up for. I get DPS queues are bad, but I didn't sit in a half-hour long queue either just to die over and over because we don't have a tank redirecting damage.
And before that that "uwu but if it's a normal then who cares" argument crops up, it doesn't matter what difficulty it is. You're still a jerk. Unless you can nuke everything into orbit and "tank" that way, you should just queue with a friend to cut the lines instead. The roles are there for a reason.
Well once they fix the activity finder and make it who ever actually wants to DPS doesn't have to wait in a long ass que. Half the time I want to Dps but the godamn activity finder makes me wait a long time so I just que up as a tank instead.
There is nothing here to be doe to fix the activity finder. When 2/3 of the people playing are dd's and of the 1/3 that's left 2/3 of those are healers, you are going to get long wait times as a dd and people fake tanking.
Everyone think the dd is the hero and the most exciting thing to do. until that changes, what is to be done?2 -
Ashtaris✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Facefister wrote: »As long as there are fake DDs, there will be fake tanks. Deal with it. I won't take a 45 minutes tour through my daily random when I can burn through it with slotted vigor and inner fire in 10 minutes
Fine, then solo the dungeon. Nobody will miss you.11 -
Hazurko_RaShan✭✭✭Fake tank is not a problem, remove fake dd ( <40k DPS) from queue first.
What makes a person a fake isnt how well they play but whether they are paling the role they signed up for.
A bad tank is still a tank with taunts and cc
a bad dps is still a dps if they are trying to do damage
a bad healer is still a healer if they are healing
A fake tank does no cc or taunting
a fake healer only does dps and no healing
a fake dps isnt really a thing. i have never seen anyone slotted for a dps role who wasnt dpsing. but eh maybe it happens?2 -
Runkorko✭✭✭✭✭
✭Facefister wrote: »As long as there are fake DDs, there will be fake tanks. Deal with it. I won't take a 45 minutes tour through my daily random when I can burn through it with slotted vigor and inner fire in 10 minutes
Burn it solo then!
In my grp, you will get voted, and more likely kicked. If they degline, i`l leave and ignore all your sorry arses.
Your loss.
ZoS let cheaters and scamers thrive. This not mean players will do the same.
And not sword and board make you tank. The ability to taunt do.
So having 2h or bow or staff and using taunt, dont make you fake tank.
But think you fist your face too much, to understand that. mr Facefister.
No matter, stil ignored. Thank god you play on NA...
Edited by Runkorko on August 31, 2019 7:03AM0 -
richo262✭✭✭✭✭
✭If the game allowed for easier load outs where people can make a full fledge tank or full fledged dps on two different profiles (diff attributes / skills / cp / gear) then this simply would not be a problem. Example.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/490100/anybody-else-suffering-from-too-many-characters/p11 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What is a tank? Isn't that a guy in a group that is supposed to absorb as much damage as possible and protect allies this way?
So if I slot Inner Rage and actively use it and not die, am I a tank? No matter what my setup is, right?Edited by Olupajmibanan on August 31, 2019 7:39AM3