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Khajiit Crit bonus compared to shadow

Jodynn
Jodynn
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Shadow gives 13% base, and 19% with all divines

Khajiit gives 10% which is a race; I understand it is also healing but as a dps spec this matters little to me.

Apprentice base it 238, with all divines 363
High Elf and Dark elf get 258 spell damage while, as well as stronger magicka buffs.

Could Khajiit ask for 14% crit damage instead of 10% to put it closer in balance as high and dark elf are both outperforming Khajiit.
Jodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.
  • ATreeGnome
    ATreeGnome
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    Khajiit definitely need some love. A boost to the crit damage would be nice but I would really like to see it swapped back to crit chance. That way they could be balanced to be better than Dunmer for classes that get crit damage bonuses like Templars and Nightblades but worse for the rest.

    As it is, they get just enough of every stat to be the 4th or 5th best option for each class and role but not enough to really be competitive at any. It's really frustrating.
  • Jodynn
    Jodynn
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    ATreeGnome wrote: »
    Khajiit definitely need some love. A boost to the crit damage would be nice but I would really like to see it swapped back to crit chance. That way they could be balanced to be better than Dunmer for classes that get crit damage bonuses like Templars and Nightblades but worse for the rest.

    As it is, they get just enough of every stat to be the 4th or 5th best option for each class and role but not enough to really be competitive at any. It's really frustrating.

    I agree entirely
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
    The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.
  • Nyladreas
    Nyladreas
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    Shadow gives 13% base, and 19% with all divines

    Khajiit gives 10% which is a race; I understand it is also healing but as a dps spec this matters little to me.

    Apprentice base it 238, with all divines 363
    High Elf and Dark elf get 258 spell damage while, as well as stronger magicka buffs.

    Could Khajiit ask for 14% crit damage instead of 10% to put it closer in balance as high and dark elf are both outperforming Khajiit.
    ATreeGnome wrote: »
    Khajiit definitely need some love. A boost to the crit damage would be nice but I would really like to see it swapped back to crit chance. That way they could be balanced to be better than Dunmer for classes that get crit damage bonuses like Templars and Nightblades but worse for the rest.

    As it is, they get just enough of every stat to be the 4th or 5th best option for each class and role but not enough to really be competitive at any. It's really frustrating.
    Totally agree 👍
    Edited by Nyladreas on August 16, 2019 1:15PM
  • BahometZ
    BahometZ
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    Such agreement.
    Pact Magplar - Max CP (NA XB)
  • Aznarb
    Aznarb
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    Seem fair.
    [ PC EU ]

    [ Khuram-dar ]
    [ Khajiit ]
    [ Templar - Healer ]
    [Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]

  • mnemeb17_ESO
    mnemeb17_ESO
    Soul Shriven
    Khajits race forgotten by Azura, and hardly anyone will pay such attention :(
    Vote for raising the power of crit
  • Nyladreas
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    I hate how these topics never get enough attention and die quickly.

    Speaking of racials... Can we finally do something about Bosmer? Like Hoo Lee.... No? Okay :(
    Edited by Nyladreas on August 19, 2019 10:48AM
  • Jodynn
    Jodynn
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    ZOS please don't ignore your community
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
    The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.
  • WrathOfInnos
    WrathOfInnos
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    Yep. Don’t forget that the 258 Spell Damage and higher Magicka pools of elves also affects their healing output, so this aspect is not unique to Khajiit.
  • Nevasca
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    Khajiit also has regen and health though. It's fair that they don't have the same damage potential as other races.

    Also I'd like to point out that when Shadow isn't BiS, Khajiit will gain a lot more attention. Due to how crit damage scales, when using Shadow, it isn't as powerful, as in, other races get more damage boost by using Shadow compared to Khajiit. But right now Shadow clearly overperforms every other mundus, so Khajiit isn't as good as other races. Still a really good mid-ground imo, has regen, health, good damage, excelent for progression.
    Edited by Nevasca on August 19, 2019 2:19PM
  • Jodynn
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    Khajiit also has regen and health though. It's fair that they don't have the same damage potential as other races.

    Also I'd like to point out that when Shadow isn't BiS, Khajiit will gain a lot more attention. Due to how crit damage scales, when using Shadow, it isn't as powerful, as in, other races get more damage boost by using Shadow compared to Khajiit. But right now Shadow clearly overperforms every other mundus, so Khajiit isn't as good as other races. Still a really good mid-ground imo, has regen, health, good damage, excelent for progression.

    Not entirely true

    The regen is negligible, it's such a small amount and trust me from an end-game perspective and we are talking optimized builds here; it's not noticeable AT ALL in magicka toons, especially after the hemoglobin, orb and false god changes.

    While the extra health is nice, one health glyph on a dunmer will you give more mag, stamina, AND health; and on altmer more mag and health and who cares about the small amount of stam on an end game magicka toon? No one.

    Shadow mundus is shadowed ( see what I did there ) by thief on khajiit right now; HOWEVER, you can get MORE crit through mother sorrow on a dunmer and altmer and have MORE crit bonus via the shadow.

    Point is, there is no reason to be khajiit other than the fact I like the race, but I don't think I should be punished because of this.
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
    The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    Shadow is simply OP. Yesterday I tried to test "what if" I switch to thief. Just a complete waste, even at low crit build (55% before mundus)

    Mundus signs are balanced for PVP, in PVE after shadow buff there is no other mundus for DPS role.
  • Jodynn
    Jodynn
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    Shadow is simply OP. Yesterday I tried to test "what if" I switch to thief. Just a complete waste, even at low crit build (55% before mundus)

    Mundus signs are balanced for PVP, in PVE after shadow buff there is no other mundus for DPS role.

    Again, not entirely true, for khajiit thief still outperforms shadow, however dunmer and altmer with their higher crit bonus ( shadow versus class ) will outperform khajiit.
    Edited by Jodynn on August 21, 2019 1:46PM
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
    The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    i really liked the crit chance idea that khajiit had on pts. i think they should have reduced it a little rather than changing it.
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Dagoth_Rac
    Dagoth_Rac
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    Everybody: "Buff Khajiit!"

    ZOS: "Did somebody say nerf Shadow?"
  • Nevasca
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    Khajiit also has regen and health though. It's fair that they don't have the same damage potential as other races.

    Also I'd like to point out that when Shadow isn't BiS, Khajiit will gain a lot more attention. Due to how crit damage scales, when using Shadow, it isn't as powerful, as in, other races get more damage boost by using Shadow compared to Khajiit. But right now Shadow clearly overperforms every other mundus, so Khajiit isn't as good as other races. Still a really good mid-ground imo, has regen, health, good damage, excelent for progression.

    Not entirely true

    The regen is negligible, it's such a small amount and trust me from an end-game perspective and we are talking optimized builds here; it's not noticeable AT ALL in magicka toons, especially after the hemoglobin, orb and false god changes.

    While the extra health is nice, one health glyph on a dunmer will you give more mag, stamina, AND health; and on altmer more mag and health and who cares about the small amount of stam on an end game magicka toon? No one.

    Shadow mundus is shadowed ( see what I did there ) by thief on khajiit right now; HOWEVER, you can get MORE crit through mother sorrow on a dunmer and altmer and have MORE crit bonus via the shadow.

    Point is, there is no reason to be khajiit other than the fact I like the race, but I don't think I should be punished because of this.

    Neglible lol.

    It's 85 mag regen, if you add multipliers from light armor, CP, minor and major intelect, it goes easily above 200 regen. Khajiit isn't a race for a end-game guild looking for top scoreboards - It's a race for progression and completion of content, that's the people who would care about the regen. Khajiit is supposed to be the jack-of-all-trades master of none, which is exactly what the racials are: They don't have the best regen, damage, health or max mag/stam. They are in between.

    I am aware that Thief+Khajiit > Shadow+Khajiit. My point is exactly what you just pointed it out, an Altmer/Dunmer with Shadow outperforms, simply because stacking crit damage has diminishing returns, so Khajiit can't benefit from Shadow like other races and has to rely on Thief. If Thief was the BiS mundus, I think the gap would be really close, and maybe Khajiit would even outparse in certain classes (non-templar/nb).

    But then you're also looking this at a pure PvE perspective. In PvP, Khajiit racials are very useful and insanely underrated.
  • Jodynn
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    In end game 85 recovery doesn't scale much with 5 1 1 which is what most people run progression or not, in end game no one uses recovery stacking it's all spell damage on jewels and use bistat for more competitive with spell sym which is infinite resources ( don't make the it cost health argument because healers negate the damage easily ) or some use magicka regen which again makes the 85 recovery then extra you don't need.

    It's not about what it would fit best with certain groups because my skill level is high enough for it to not matter trust me; it's about competing with one another in my own testing altmer and dunmer out parses in raid and dummy but I want to be khajiit so I am khajiit, but why am I being punished in class passive for this when it's negligible differences in an optimal build which is what this is about, as I said.

    The point isn't being a master, but being able to hold a candle in an end game optimal build that otherwise if you aren't min maxing the 14% crit I'm asking for you won't notice; rather than being only my choice because of aesthetics.
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
    The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.
  • ankeor
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    Khajiit has crit damage/healing bonus which pushes th race to have as much crit chance as possible. Problem is with the current stats Orc, Dunmer, Altmer have they have higher base damage which results their critical damage becomes equal or even higher than what Khajiit has. At the same time those races are not depended on crit chance. If a race/class/set etc depended on certain stats, it at least has to be rewarded for investing into those stats.
  • WrathOfInnos
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    Shadow is simply OP. Yesterday I tried to test "what if" I switch to thief. Just a complete waste, even at low crit build (55% before mundus)

    Mundus signs are balanced for PVP, in PVE after shadow buff there is no other mundus for DPS role.

    Again, not entirely true, for khajiit thief still outperforms shadow, however dunmer and altmer with their higher crit bonus ( shadow versus class ) will outperform khajiit.

    I don’t believe that is correct. A Khajiit would still need very low crit chance for Thief to beat Shadow, and a build with crit that low is not even trying to optimize around Khajiit.

    Neglible lol.

    It's 85 mag regen, if you add multipliers from light armor, CP, minor and major intelect, it goes easily above 200 regen. Khajiit isn't a race for a end-game guild looking for top scoreboards - It's a race for progression and completion of content, that's the people who would care about the regen. Khajiit is supposed to be the jack-of-all-trades master of none, which is exactly what the racials are: They don't have the best regen, damage, health or max mag/stam. They are in between.

    There’s no way for 85 regen to become 200 with multipliers. You can count on 20% from 5 light armor, 14% from CP’s is common, 20% from potions, and maybe 4% from slotting 2 Mage’s guild skills. That brings it up to 134 regen or 67 per second.

    If you really push the limits you could add 10% from Vampire, 10% from Sorcerer passives, 10% from Support skill line, and 10% from Minor Intellect. This would turn the 85 into 168 regen, or returning 84 per second. This build starts to get pretty constrained though, with having to slot 4 Mages Guild skills (2 on each bar), 2 Support skills (Purge and Barrier maybe?), Empowered Ward or rely on a Warden with mushrooms.

    I don’t see any way to get 85 to above 200, much less easily.
  • Jodynn
    Jodynn
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    Shadow is simply OP. Yesterday I tried to test "what if" I switch to thief. Just a complete waste, even at low crit build (55% before mundus)

    Mundus signs are balanced for PVP, in PVE after shadow buff there is no other mundus for DPS role.

    Again, not entirely true, for khajiit thief still outperforms shadow, however dunmer and altmer with their higher crit bonus ( shadow versus class ) will outperform khajiit.

    I don’t believe that is correct. A Khajiit would still need very low crit chance for Thief to beat Shadow, and a build with crit that low is not even trying to optimize around Khajiit.

    On my magDK khajiit using Spell Strat and Siroria on an iron atro with a precise front bar staff I have tested multiple parses and mother sorrow and siroria with precise or nirnhoned with thief and shadow both and thief always outparses the shadow; if you like to provide your own parses please do but you can take my word for it because I have invested way too much time into testing this lol.
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
    The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.
  • Drako_Ei
    Drako_Ei
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    Shadow gives 13% base, and 19% with all divines

    Khajiit gives 10% which is a race; I understand it is also healing but as a dps spec this matters little to me.

    Apprentice base it 238, with all divines 363
    High Elf and Dark elf get 258 spell damage while, as well as stronger magicka buffs.

    Could Khajiit ask for 14% crit damage instead of 10% to put it closer in balance as high and dark elf are both outperforming Khajiit.

    High elf and dark elf's spell damage also affects healing...

    Orc's crit has more damage than the crit race (khajiit)

    Altmer's healing is stronger than the lore breaking healing race (Argonian)

    Great balance!
    Fix your crashes btw, i havent played since i crashed 3 times in a row at last boss vSS and lost the instance, come on, my eso+ is running out

    Buff argonian while you are at it
    Edited by Drako_Ei on August 21, 2019 8:43PM
  • WrathOfInnos
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    Shadow is simply OP. Yesterday I tried to test "what if" I switch to thief. Just a complete waste, even at low crit build (55% before mundus)

    Mundus signs are balanced for PVP, in PVE after shadow buff there is no other mundus for DPS role.

    Again, not entirely true, for khajiit thief still outperforms shadow, however dunmer and altmer with their higher crit bonus ( shadow versus class ) will outperform khajiit.

    I don’t believe that is correct. A Khajiit would still need very low crit chance for Thief to beat Shadow, and a build with crit that low is not even trying to optimize around Khajiit.

    On my magDK khajiit using Spell Strat and Siroria on an iron atro with a precise front bar staff I have tested multiple parses and mother sorrow and siroria with precise or nirnhoned with thief and shadow both and thief always outparses the shadow; if you like to provide your own parses please do but you can take my word for it because I have invested way too much time into testing this lol.

    @brandoncoffmannub18_ESO Interesting results. I agree that on a solo MagDK wearing Siroria and Spell Strat (no crit bonuses) Thief could be better. Even with Precise front bar and assuming a monster set with 1pc crit (Zaan or Slimecraw) you are only averaging about 48% crit chance. Making some assumptions about your crit damage modifier (Minor Force, 20% from CP’s), it appears that Thief gives around 0.36% more DPS than Shadow. However, if your crit was just 3% higher, at 51%, Shadow begins to outperform Thief. I would argue that in most group content there would be at least one Sorcerer around providing Minor Prophecy, which brings your crit from 48% up to 54%, making Shadow better than Thief by 0.38% DPS. I doubt anyone would really notice the difference between the 2 Mundus Stones when the results are this similar.

    For the 2nd setup you mention, Siroria + Mother’s Sorrow, things change a little. IMO this setup is much more suitable for a Khajiit build, since it has higher Spell Crit to synergize with Khajiit passives. I don’t believe Nirnhoned would perform as well as Precise here, so I’ll focus on the Precise front bar setup. You should have about 64% average Spell Crit in these gear sets, at which point Shadow outperforms Thief by 1.5% DPS.

    Now I should point out that one thing I did not include in these numbers was the Major Force from Warhorn, which would also shift things slightly toward Thief. In fact, with 40% Major Force uptime, the break-even point for Thief and Shadow shifts from 51% up to 54%. I’m not sure if this applies to you specifically, but one mistake I’ve seen is testing on a raid dummy and assuming the buffs are accurate to a group setting. The raid dummy gives 100% Major Force uptime, which is unattainable and makes Thief appear stronger than it really is. With 100% Major Force, the Thief-Shadow break even point is all the way up at 59% Spell Crit.

    Edit: I’ll also add that 3 of my characters are Khajiit, and all are built to have over 80% crit chance. IMO that’s the only way to get Khajiit to perform close to all the better races, and they still fall short in DPS by a few %.
    Edited by WrathOfInnos on August 21, 2019 11:19PM
  • Iskiab
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    It’s easy to see its underpowered. The Khajit racial is less than the shadow mundus, Altmer is more than the apprentice mundus.

    It’s doesnt take a rocket scientist to see either mundus stones or Khajit is out of whack.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • OG_Kaveman
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    It’s easy to see its underpowered. The Khajit racial is less than the shadow mundus, Altmer is more than the apprentice mundus.

    It’s doesnt take a rocket scientist to see either mundus stones or Khajit is out of whack.

    racials are 2x a single set bonus, generally (cries in argonian 6% healing done). so 129x2=258 altmer spell damage. now we dont have a set bonus for crit hit damage. the closest is now senches bit, with gives 12% on roll dodge. mathing that out, going by what ZoS has stated that a 5 piece is 2.31x of a single set bonus, let's take that 12% and divide by that, 12/2.31 is 5.19%. so a single set bonus for crit hit damage would prolly be 5%. though you get that from archers mind on the 5 piece, with a conditional 10% more, up to 15%.

    but lets say a single set is 5%. that would make the khajit 10% bonus right in line with the altmers. 2x a set bonus.
  • Jodynn
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    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    It’s easy to see its underpowered. The Khajit racial is less than the shadow mundus, Altmer is more than the apprentice mundus.

    It’s doesnt take a rocket scientist to see either mundus stones or Khajit is out of whack.

    racials are 2x a single set bonus, generally (cries in argonian 6% healing done). so 129x2=258 altmer spell damage. now we dont have a set bonus for crit hit damage. the closest is now senches bit, with gives 12% on roll dodge. mathing that out, going by what ZoS has stated that a 5 piece is 2.31x of a single set bonus, let's take that 12% and divide by that, 12/2.31 is 5.19%. so a single set bonus for crit hit damage would prolly be 5%. though you get that from archers mind on the 5 piece, with a conditional 10% more, up to 15%.

    but lets say a single set is 5%. that would make the khajit 10% bonus right in line with the altmers. 2x a set bonus.

    But that's a theoretical percent

    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
    The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.
  • OG_Kaveman
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    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    It’s easy to see its underpowered. The Khajit racial is less than the shadow mundus, Altmer is more than the apprentice mundus.

    It’s doesnt take a rocket scientist to see either mundus stones or Khajit is out of whack.

    racials are 2x a single set bonus, generally (cries in argonian 6% healing done). so 129x2=258 altmer spell damage. now we dont have a set bonus for crit hit damage. the closest is now senches bit, with gives 12% on roll dodge. mathing that out, going by what ZoS has stated that a 5 piece is 2.31x of a single set bonus, let's take that 12% and divide by that, 12/2.31 is 5.19%. so a single set bonus for crit hit damage would prolly be 5%. though you get that from archers mind on the 5 piece, with a conditional 10% more, up to 15%.

    but lets say a single set is 5%. that would make the khajit 10% bonus right in line with the altmers. 2x a set bonus.

    But that's a theoretical percent

    that it is. and one i don't agree with, i agree with you, khajiit need a buff. so does senches bite. so does archers mind.

    if i had my way, i would start with the 13% of the shadow. then since we know that a mundas is 1.85 a set bonus. that would make a set bonus 7%. going from that, you would get 14% for the khajiit bonus. like you are asking for. this would also make senches bite a 16% bonus. archers mind would be 7% then an extra 13% from stealth.
  • Iskiab
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    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    It’s easy to see its underpowered. The Khajit racial is less than the shadow mundus, Altmer is more than the apprentice mundus.

    It’s doesnt take a rocket scientist to see either mundus stones or Khajit is out of whack.

    racials are 2x a single set bonus, generally (cries in argonian 6% healing done). so 129x2=258 altmer spell damage. now we dont have a set bonus for crit hit damage. the closest is now senches bit, with gives 12% on roll dodge. mathing that out, going by what ZoS has stated that a 5 piece is 2.31x of a single set bonus, let's take that 12% and divide by that, 12/2.31 is 5.19%. so a single set bonus for crit hit damage would prolly be 5%. though you get that from archers mind on the 5 piece, with a conditional 10% more, up to 15%.

    but lets say a single set is 5%. that would make the khajit 10% bonus right in line with the altmers. 2x a set bonus.

    But that's a theoretical percent

    that it is. and one i don't agree with, i agree with you, khajiit need a buff. so does senches bite. so does archers mind.

    if i had my way, i would start with the 13% of the shadow. then since we know that a mundas is 1.85 a set bonus. that would make a set bonus 7%. going from that, you would get 14% for the khajiit bonus. like you are asking for. this would also make senches bite a 16% bonus. archers mind would be 7% then an extra 13% from stealth.

    I agree with this, I guess crit damage was a new thing so they weren’t sure where to put it, but it’s definitely underpowered.

    Apprentice = 200 spell damage
    Altmer = 256 spell damage

    Shadow = 13% crit modifier
    Khajit = 10% crit modifier

    Even if Khajit was balanced around sets and is line with them, it’s been broken by the shadow mundus.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • OG_Kaveman
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    It’s easy to see its underpowered. The Khajit racial is less than the shadow mundus, Altmer is more than the apprentice mundus.

    It’s doesnt take a rocket scientist to see either mundus stones or Khajit is out of whack.

    racials are 2x a single set bonus, generally (cries in argonian 6% healing done). so 129x2=258 altmer spell damage. now we dont have a set bonus for crit hit damage. the closest is now senches bit, with gives 12% on roll dodge. mathing that out, going by what ZoS has stated that a 5 piece is 2.31x of a single set bonus, let's take that 12% and divide by that, 12/2.31 is 5.19%. so a single set bonus for crit hit damage would prolly be 5%. though you get that from archers mind on the 5 piece, with a conditional 10% more, up to 15%.

    but lets say a single set is 5%. that would make the khajit 10% bonus right in line with the altmers. 2x a set bonus.

    But that's a theoretical percent

    that it is. and one i don't agree with, i agree with you, khajiit need a buff. so does senches bite. so does archers mind.

    if i had my way, i would start with the 13% of the shadow. then since we know that a mundas is 1.85 a set bonus. that would make a set bonus 7%. going from that, you would get 14% for the khajiit bonus. like you are asking for. this would also make senches bite a 16% bonus. archers mind would be 7% then an extra 13% from stealth.

    I agree with this, I guess crit damage was a new thing so they weren’t sure where to put it, but it’s definitely underpowered.

    Apprentice = 200 spell damage
    Altmer = 256 spell damage

    Shadow = 13% crit modifier
    Khajit = 10% crit modifier

    Even if Khajit was balanced around sets and is line with them, it’s been broken by the shadow mundus.

    the thing is, we know that mundai are balanced around set bonuses/weapon traits. and we know that 258(which the altmer and every other spell/weapon damage racial is, not 256)/2 is 129 or one set bonus.

    apprentice is 238, not 200.

    here is the exact quotes if you have never seen them-

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4420099/#Comment_4420099
    Mundus Stones

    Developer Comments:

    Mundus Stone values and bonuses have been re-tuned with a focus on improving overall diversity. The Lady was upgraded to grant both Spell and Physical Resistance, and The Lover was completely redesigned to grant Spell and Physical Penetration to counteract The Lady and provide greater flexibility in stat choices.

    We’ve also standardized Mundus Stone values against other systems that grant similar bonuses, such as enchantments or Item Sets, so you can customize the stats you care about in each system without needing to worry about weighing the exact values against each other. Mundus Stones are now equivalent to 1.85x of an Item Set bonus.
    Weapon Traits

    Developer Comments:

    Similar to how Mundus Stones were changed, Weapon Trait values have also been rebalanced with a focus on improving overall diversity. Weapon Trait values have a 1:1 pairing with the effectiveness of Mundus Stones; this means if you want armor, you can get the Lady Mundus Stone or a Defending weapon and they will both give you 2752 armor.

    Prosperous was completely re-designed as it was redundant with the increased armor durability of Impenetrable. It will grant a new combat function, and will be an interesting choice for builds seeking to maximize resource recovery gains. Pairing the Divines trait with a recovery Mundus Stone will grant more recovery for that one particular stat, but Prosperous will grant more recovery overall.
    Item Sets

    Developer Comments –


    The bonus for having 5 pieces is approximately 2.31x the value of a one-piece bonus. For example, you can get a set bonus of 129 Spell Damage, or a 5-piece bonus of 299 Spell Damage on Julianos.

    Some sets, such as Necropotence, have conditional bonuses. Since it’s harder to get these bonuses, we are allowing them to provide up to a 25% increase over other sets. This is why Dragur Hulk now gives 2540 max resource and Necropotence now gives 3150.


    of course, as brandon said, this is hypothetical, but at least i am showing mathematically why khajit ought to have 14%, not just stating that they ought to.
    Edited by OG_Kaveman on August 22, 2019 9:34PM
  • WrathOfInnos
    WrathOfInnos
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    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    It’s easy to see its underpowered. The Khajit racial is less than the shadow mundus, Altmer is more than the apprentice mundus.

    It’s doesnt take a rocket scientist to see either mundus stones or Khajit is out of whack.

    racials are 2x a single set bonus, generally (cries in argonian 6% healing done). so 129x2=258 altmer spell damage. now we dont have a set bonus for crit hit damage. the closest is now senches bit, with gives 12% on roll dodge. mathing that out, going by what ZoS has stated that a 5 piece is 2.31x of a single set bonus, let's take that 12% and divide by that, 12/2.31 is 5.19%. so a single set bonus for crit hit damage would prolly be 5%. though you get that from archers mind on the 5 piece, with a conditional 10% more, up to 15%.

    but lets say a single set is 5%. that would make the khajit 10% bonus right in line with the altmers. 2x a set bonus.

    But that's a theoretical percent

    that it is. and one i don't agree with, i agree with you, khajiit need a buff. so does senches bite. so does archers mind.

    if i had my way, i would start with the 13% of the shadow. then since we know that a mundas is 1.85 a set bonus. that would make a set bonus 7%. going from that, you would get 14% for the khajiit bonus. like you are asking for. this would also make senches bite a 16% bonus. archers mind would be 7% then an extra 13% from stealth.

    I would be ok with that plan. Although really the Shadow should be 11%. Well IMO it should technically be 11.9% so that each piece of divines has an impact after it gets rounded down to an integer (so 11% + number of divines pieces, up to max 18% or 19% with a shield). This would make a standard set bonus 6% crit dmg (very close to a standard 3.8% crit chance bonus from a DPS perspective), and Khajiit should end up with 12% crit damage. This alone would not bring Khajiit in line with other races, so their tri-resource passive should be changed to 1k of each (possibly 1.1k health), and the tri-regen passive should be about 129-150 of each (resulting in sustain directly between Orc/Altmer/Dunmer and Breton/Bosmer/Redguard).
    Edited by WrathOfInnos on August 22, 2019 9:46PM
  • OG_Kaveman
    OG_Kaveman
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    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    It’s easy to see its underpowered. The Khajit racial is less than the shadow mundus, Altmer is more than the apprentice mundus.

    It’s doesnt take a rocket scientist to see either mundus stones or Khajit is out of whack.

    racials are 2x a single set bonus, generally (cries in argonian 6% healing done). so 129x2=258 altmer spell damage. now we dont have a set bonus for crit hit damage. the closest is now senches bit, with gives 12% on roll dodge. mathing that out, going by what ZoS has stated that a 5 piece is 2.31x of a single set bonus, let's take that 12% and divide by that, 12/2.31 is 5.19%. so a single set bonus for crit hit damage would prolly be 5%. though you get that from archers mind on the 5 piece, with a conditional 10% more, up to 15%.

    but lets say a single set is 5%. that would make the khajit 10% bonus right in line with the altmers. 2x a set bonus.

    But that's a theoretical percent

    that it is. and one i don't agree with, i agree with you, khajiit need a buff. so does senches bite. so does archers mind.

    if i had my way, i would start with the 13% of the shadow. then since we know that a mundas is 1.85 a set bonus. that would make a set bonus 7%. going from that, you would get 14% for the khajiit bonus. like you are asking for. this would also make senches bite a 16% bonus. archers mind would be 7% then an extra 13% from stealth.

    I would be ok with that plan. Although really the Shadow should be 11%. Well IMO it should technically be 11.9% so that each piece of divines has an impact after it gets rounded down to an integer (so 11% + number of divines pieces, up to max 18% or 19% with a shield). This would make a standard set bonus 6% crit dmg (very close to a standard 3.8% crit chance bonus from a DPS perspective), and Khajiit should end up with 12% crit damage. This alone would not bring Khajiit in line with other races, so their tri-resource passive should be changed to 1k of each (possibly 1.1k health), and the tri-regen passive should be about 129-150 of each (resulting in sustain directly between Orc/Altmer/Dunmer and Breton/Bosmer/Redguard).

    i would also be okay with what you say here.
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