ATreeGnome wrote: »Khajiit definitely need some love. A boost to the crit damage would be nice but I would really like to see it swapped back to crit chance. That way they could be balanced to be better than Dunmer for classes that get crit damage bonuses like Templars and Nightblades but worse for the rest.
As it is, they get just enough of every stat to be the 4th or 5th best option for each class and role but not enough to really be competitive at any. It's really frustrating.
brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »Shadow gives 13% base, and 19% with all divines
Khajiit gives 10% which is a race; I understand it is also healing but as a dps spec this matters little to me.
Apprentice base it 238, with all divines 363
High Elf and Dark elf get 258 spell damage while, as well as stronger magicka buffs.
Could Khajiit ask for 14% crit damage instead of 10% to put it closer in balance as high and dark elf are both outperforming Khajiit.
Totally agree 👍ATreeGnome wrote: »Khajiit definitely need some love. A boost to the crit damage would be nice but I would really like to see it swapped back to crit chance. That way they could be balanced to be better than Dunmer for classes that get crit damage bonuses like Templars and Nightblades but worse for the rest.
As it is, they get just enough of every stat to be the 4th or 5th best option for each class and role but not enough to really be competitive at any. It's really frustrating.
Littlebluelizard wrote: »Khajiit also has regen and health though. It's fair that they don't have the same damage potential as other races.
Also I'd like to point out that when Shadow isn't BiS, Khajiit will gain a lot more attention. Due to how crit damage scales, when using Shadow, it isn't as powerful, as in, other races get more damage boost by using Shadow compared to Khajiit. But right now Shadow clearly overperforms every other mundus, so Khajiit isn't as good as other races. Still a really good mid-ground imo, has regen, health, good damage, excelent for progression.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »Shadow is simply OP. Yesterday I tried to test "what if" I switch to thief. Just a complete waste, even at low crit build (55% before mundus)
Mundus signs are balanced for PVP, in PVE after shadow buff there is no other mundus for DPS role.
brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »Littlebluelizard wrote: »Khajiit also has regen and health though. It's fair that they don't have the same damage potential as other races.
Also I'd like to point out that when Shadow isn't BiS, Khajiit will gain a lot more attention. Due to how crit damage scales, when using Shadow, it isn't as powerful, as in, other races get more damage boost by using Shadow compared to Khajiit. But right now Shadow clearly overperforms every other mundus, so Khajiit isn't as good as other races. Still a really good mid-ground imo, has regen, health, good damage, excelent for progression.
Not entirely true
The regen is negligible, it's such a small amount and trust me from an end-game perspective and we are talking optimized builds here; it's not noticeable AT ALL in magicka toons, especially after the hemoglobin, orb and false god changes.
While the extra health is nice, one health glyph on a dunmer will you give more mag, stamina, AND health; and on altmer more mag and health and who cares about the small amount of stam on an end game magicka toon? No one.
Shadow mundus is shadowed ( see what I did there ) by thief on khajiit right now; HOWEVER, you can get MORE crit through mother sorrow on a dunmer and altmer and have MORE crit bonus via the shadow.
Point is, there is no reason to be khajiit other than the fact I like the race, but I don't think I should be punished because of this.
brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Shadow is simply OP. Yesterday I tried to test "what if" I switch to thief. Just a complete waste, even at low crit build (55% before mundus)
Mundus signs are balanced for PVP, in PVE after shadow buff there is no other mundus for DPS role.
Again, not entirely true, for khajiit thief still outperforms shadow, however dunmer and altmer with their higher crit bonus ( shadow versus class ) will outperform khajiit.
Littlebluelizard wrote: »
Neglible lol.
It's 85 mag regen, if you add multipliers from light armor, CP, minor and major intelect, it goes easily above 200 regen. Khajiit isn't a race for a end-game guild looking for top scoreboards - It's a race for progression and completion of content, that's the people who would care about the regen. Khajiit is supposed to be the jack-of-all-trades master of none, which is exactly what the racials are: They don't have the best regen, damage, health or max mag/stam. They are in between.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Shadow is simply OP. Yesterday I tried to test "what if" I switch to thief. Just a complete waste, even at low crit build (55% before mundus)
Mundus signs are balanced for PVP, in PVE after shadow buff there is no other mundus for DPS role.
Again, not entirely true, for khajiit thief still outperforms shadow, however dunmer and altmer with their higher crit bonus ( shadow versus class ) will outperform khajiit.
I don’t believe that is correct. A Khajiit would still need very low crit chance for Thief to beat Shadow, and a build with crit that low is not even trying to optimize around Khajiit.
brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »Shadow gives 13% base, and 19% with all divines
Khajiit gives 10% which is a race; I understand it is also healing but as a dps spec this matters little to me.
Apprentice base it 238, with all divines 363
High Elf and Dark elf get 258 spell damage while, as well as stronger magicka buffs.
Could Khajiit ask for 14% crit damage instead of 10% to put it closer in balance as high and dark elf are both outperforming Khajiit.
brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Shadow is simply OP. Yesterday I tried to test "what if" I switch to thief. Just a complete waste, even at low crit build (55% before mundus)
Mundus signs are balanced for PVP, in PVE after shadow buff there is no other mundus for DPS role.
Again, not entirely true, for khajiit thief still outperforms shadow, however dunmer and altmer with their higher crit bonus ( shadow versus class ) will outperform khajiit.
I don’t believe that is correct. A Khajiit would still need very low crit chance for Thief to beat Shadow, and a build with crit that low is not even trying to optimize around Khajiit.
On my magDK khajiit using Spell Strat and Siroria on an iron atro with a precise front bar staff I have tested multiple parses and mother sorrow and siroria with precise or nirnhoned with thief and shadow both and thief always outparses the shadow; if you like to provide your own parses please do but you can take my word for it because I have invested way too much time into testing this lol.
It’s easy to see its underpowered. The Khajit racial is less than the shadow mundus, Altmer is more than the apprentice mundus.
It’s doesnt take a rocket scientist to see either mundus stones or Khajit is out of whack.
OG_Kaveman wrote: »It’s easy to see its underpowered. The Khajit racial is less than the shadow mundus, Altmer is more than the apprentice mundus.
It’s doesnt take a rocket scientist to see either mundus stones or Khajit is out of whack.
racials are 2x a single set bonus, generally (cries in argonian 6% healing done). so 129x2=258 altmer spell damage. now we dont have a set bonus for crit hit damage. the closest is now senches bit, with gives 12% on roll dodge. mathing that out, going by what ZoS has stated that a 5 piece is 2.31x of a single set bonus, let's take that 12% and divide by that, 12/2.31 is 5.19%. so a single set bonus for crit hit damage would prolly be 5%. though you get that from archers mind on the 5 piece, with a conditional 10% more, up to 15%.
but lets say a single set is 5%. that would make the khajit 10% bonus right in line with the altmers. 2x a set bonus.
brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »It’s easy to see its underpowered. The Khajit racial is less than the shadow mundus, Altmer is more than the apprentice mundus.
It’s doesnt take a rocket scientist to see either mundus stones or Khajit is out of whack.
racials are 2x a single set bonus, generally (cries in argonian 6% healing done). so 129x2=258 altmer spell damage. now we dont have a set bonus for crit hit damage. the closest is now senches bit, with gives 12% on roll dodge. mathing that out, going by what ZoS has stated that a 5 piece is 2.31x of a single set bonus, let's take that 12% and divide by that, 12/2.31 is 5.19%. so a single set bonus for crit hit damage would prolly be 5%. though you get that from archers mind on the 5 piece, with a conditional 10% more, up to 15%.
but lets say a single set is 5%. that would make the khajit 10% bonus right in line with the altmers. 2x a set bonus.
But that's a theoretical percent
OG_Kaveman wrote: »brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »It’s easy to see its underpowered. The Khajit racial is less than the shadow mundus, Altmer is more than the apprentice mundus.
It’s doesnt take a rocket scientist to see either mundus stones or Khajit is out of whack.
racials are 2x a single set bonus, generally (cries in argonian 6% healing done). so 129x2=258 altmer spell damage. now we dont have a set bonus for crit hit damage. the closest is now senches bit, with gives 12% on roll dodge. mathing that out, going by what ZoS has stated that a 5 piece is 2.31x of a single set bonus, let's take that 12% and divide by that, 12/2.31 is 5.19%. so a single set bonus for crit hit damage would prolly be 5%. though you get that from archers mind on the 5 piece, with a conditional 10% more, up to 15%.
but lets say a single set is 5%. that would make the khajit 10% bonus right in line with the altmers. 2x a set bonus.
But that's a theoretical percent
that it is. and one i don't agree with, i agree with you, khajiit need a buff. so does senches bite. so does archers mind.
if i had my way, i would start with the 13% of the shadow. then since we know that a mundas is 1.85 a set bonus. that would make a set bonus 7%. going from that, you would get 14% for the khajiit bonus. like you are asking for. this would also make senches bite a 16% bonus. archers mind would be 7% then an extra 13% from stealth.
OG_Kaveman wrote: »brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »It’s easy to see its underpowered. The Khajit racial is less than the shadow mundus, Altmer is more than the apprentice mundus.
It’s doesnt take a rocket scientist to see either mundus stones or Khajit is out of whack.
racials are 2x a single set bonus, generally (cries in argonian 6% healing done). so 129x2=258 altmer spell damage. now we dont have a set bonus for crit hit damage. the closest is now senches bit, with gives 12% on roll dodge. mathing that out, going by what ZoS has stated that a 5 piece is 2.31x of a single set bonus, let's take that 12% and divide by that, 12/2.31 is 5.19%. so a single set bonus for crit hit damage would prolly be 5%. though you get that from archers mind on the 5 piece, with a conditional 10% more, up to 15%.
but lets say a single set is 5%. that would make the khajit 10% bonus right in line with the altmers. 2x a set bonus.
But that's a theoretical percent
that it is. and one i don't agree with, i agree with you, khajiit need a buff. so does senches bite. so does archers mind.
if i had my way, i would start with the 13% of the shadow. then since we know that a mundas is 1.85 a set bonus. that would make a set bonus 7%. going from that, you would get 14% for the khajiit bonus. like you are asking for. this would also make senches bite a 16% bonus. archers mind would be 7% then an extra 13% from stealth.
I agree with this, I guess crit damage was a new thing so they weren’t sure where to put it, but it’s definitely underpowered.
Apprentice = 200 spell damage
Altmer = 256 spell damage
Shadow = 13% crit modifier
Khajit = 10% crit modifier
Even if Khajit was balanced around sets and is line with them, it’s been broken by the shadow mundus.
Mundus Stones
Developer Comments:
Mundus Stone values and bonuses have been re-tuned with a focus on improving overall diversity. The Lady was upgraded to grant both Spell and Physical Resistance, and The Lover was completely redesigned to grant Spell and Physical Penetration to counteract The Lady and provide greater flexibility in stat choices.
We’ve also standardized Mundus Stone values against other systems that grant similar bonuses, such as enchantments or Item Sets, so you can customize the stats you care about in each system without needing to worry about weighing the exact values against each other. Mundus Stones are now equivalent to 1.85x of an Item Set bonus.
Weapon Traits
Developer Comments:
Similar to how Mundus Stones were changed, Weapon Trait values have also been rebalanced with a focus on improving overall diversity. Weapon Trait values have a 1:1 pairing with the effectiveness of Mundus Stones; this means if you want armor, you can get the Lady Mundus Stone or a Defending weapon and they will both give you 2752 armor.
Prosperous was completely re-designed as it was redundant with the increased armor durability of Impenetrable. It will grant a new combat function, and will be an interesting choice for builds seeking to maximize resource recovery gains. Pairing the Divines trait with a recovery Mundus Stone will grant more recovery for that one particular stat, but Prosperous will grant more recovery overall.
Item Sets
Developer Comments –
The bonus for having 5 pieces is approximately 2.31x the value of a one-piece bonus. For example, you can get a set bonus of 129 Spell Damage, or a 5-piece bonus of 299 Spell Damage on Julianos.
Some sets, such as Necropotence, have conditional bonuses. Since it’s harder to get these bonuses, we are allowing them to provide up to a 25% increase over other sets. This is why Dragur Hulk now gives 2540 max resource and Necropotence now gives 3150.
OG_Kaveman wrote: »brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »It’s easy to see its underpowered. The Khajit racial is less than the shadow mundus, Altmer is more than the apprentice mundus.
It’s doesnt take a rocket scientist to see either mundus stones or Khajit is out of whack.
racials are 2x a single set bonus, generally (cries in argonian 6% healing done). so 129x2=258 altmer spell damage. now we dont have a set bonus for crit hit damage. the closest is now senches bit, with gives 12% on roll dodge. mathing that out, going by what ZoS has stated that a 5 piece is 2.31x of a single set bonus, let's take that 12% and divide by that, 12/2.31 is 5.19%. so a single set bonus for crit hit damage would prolly be 5%. though you get that from archers mind on the 5 piece, with a conditional 10% more, up to 15%.
but lets say a single set is 5%. that would make the khajit 10% bonus right in line with the altmers. 2x a set bonus.
But that's a theoretical percent
that it is. and one i don't agree with, i agree with you, khajiit need a buff. so does senches bite. so does archers mind.
if i had my way, i would start with the 13% of the shadow. then since we know that a mundas is 1.85 a set bonus. that would make a set bonus 7%. going from that, you would get 14% for the khajiit bonus. like you are asking for. this would also make senches bite a 16% bonus. archers mind would be 7% then an extra 13% from stealth.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »It’s easy to see its underpowered. The Khajit racial is less than the shadow mundus, Altmer is more than the apprentice mundus.
It’s doesnt take a rocket scientist to see either mundus stones or Khajit is out of whack.
racials are 2x a single set bonus, generally (cries in argonian 6% healing done). so 129x2=258 altmer spell damage. now we dont have a set bonus for crit hit damage. the closest is now senches bit, with gives 12% on roll dodge. mathing that out, going by what ZoS has stated that a 5 piece is 2.31x of a single set bonus, let's take that 12% and divide by that, 12/2.31 is 5.19%. so a single set bonus for crit hit damage would prolly be 5%. though you get that from archers mind on the 5 piece, with a conditional 10% more, up to 15%.
but lets say a single set is 5%. that would make the khajit 10% bonus right in line with the altmers. 2x a set bonus.
But that's a theoretical percent
that it is. and one i don't agree with, i agree with you, khajiit need a buff. so does senches bite. so does archers mind.
if i had my way, i would start with the 13% of the shadow. then since we know that a mundas is 1.85 a set bonus. that would make a set bonus 7%. going from that, you would get 14% for the khajiit bonus. like you are asking for. this would also make senches bite a 16% bonus. archers mind would be 7% then an extra 13% from stealth.
I would be ok with that plan. Although really the Shadow should be 11%. Well IMO it should technically be 11.9% so that each piece of divines has an impact after it gets rounded down to an integer (so 11% + number of divines pieces, up to max 18% or 19% with a shield). This would make a standard set bonus 6% crit dmg (very close to a standard 3.8% crit chance bonus from a DPS perspective), and Khajiit should end up with 12% crit damage. This alone would not bring Khajiit in line with other races, so their tri-resource passive should be changed to 1k of each (possibly 1.1k health), and the tri-regen passive should be about 129-150 of each (resulting in sustain directly between Orc/Altmer/Dunmer and Breton/Bosmer/Redguard).