The DoT meta will destroy the last of solo PvP

  • MaxJrFTW
    MaxJrFTW
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    Davadin wrote: »
    agree.

    but then again, on PTS, my stamDK has Vigor (no Major Mending) at nearly 30k in 5 sec.....
    You're ignoring that they buffed Vigor (by a *** lot) and rapid regen, everyone will still have answers for dots. Also (in CP) damage is not out of control, everyone is so *** tanky that buffing dots is actually a smart idea imo.

    Vigor's rework to be a single target Heal over Time hasn't hit the mark we wanted, and currently enables too much healing with the Echoing Vigor morph. We'll be taking a close look at the core identity of the skill and potentially making adjustments.

    In other words, it's getting nerfed. If you go to the pts and duel, you'll notice most duels end pretty fast because dot dmg is out of control. Stamina will be screwed if they nerf vigor and not rapid regen.
    Edited by MaxJrFTW on July 31, 2019 3:16AM
    "I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
    ―Ulrich Leland, 3E 433
  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
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    _Ahala_ wrote: »
    Ulfgarde wrote: »
    I don't want to be alarmist in my post, but it's actually startling how no one has talked much about the impact of dots in PvP in the upcoming patch

    For the most part, most of the class DoTs (Vamp's Bane, Cripple, Fetcher) were buffed by roughly 17%.

    eso64_2019-07-13_21-50-43.png

    For the record it's about 19K-20K on live with the same build. I'm running an open world setup with necro/lich with decent sustain.

    You cannot allow this to hit live.

    Can you at least try to act like your main goal here is not to nerf PvP magden. A 17% buff to a 20k tooltip does not suddenly get you a 30k tooltip. That being said, yes it’s the strongest dot in the game and has been for a long time. I have a 30k unempowered tooltip (on live) with just necro bright throats shadowrend with respectable defenses and I don’t see people fuming at the mouth to nerf this skill. Magden doesn’t get nice things like a useful spammable, a class stun that’s not a laughing stock, a burst skill that ignores defenses, and an execute. We just get a bunch of passive damage amps, northern storm, and this one great dot.

    We've begged for something to be given to our class, and people are complaining that we got one buff, while we got horribly nerfed by the loss of shock clench. Like, I just actually don't get it lol.
    Unfortunate magicka warden main.
    PC/NA Server
    Fairweather Friends
    Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.
  • wheem_ESO
    wheem_ESO
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    If you go to the pts and duel, you'll notice most duels end pretty fast because dot dmg is out of control. Stamina will be screwed if they nerf vigor and not rapid regen.
    That wasn't my experience in some limited 1v1 fights in CP-Enabled Cyrodiil; literally no one died, ever, until a Sorc and I agreed to both reset our CP to 0. And that's with me playing a DOT-oriented Magicka Necromancer (since that's the only way I see them being remotely viable in an offensive capacity). I didn't do enough fights without CP to make a determination about how this "new meta" might impact BGs or no-CP Cyrodiil, but with CP enabled basically everyone seemed immortal in 1v1.
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    Looks like some stam players are worried that magicka will have nice dots now to, since as you can see magicka dots are buffed by sick values to get in line with stamina ones. If it goes to me I'm happy.
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.

    Mael Nightshadow - that's all you need to know.
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    If you go to the pts and duel, you'll notice most duels end pretty fast because dot dmg is out of control. Stamina will be screwed if they nerf vigor and not rapid regen.
    That wasn't my experience in some limited 1v1 fights in CP-Enabled Cyrodiil; literally no one died, ever, until a Sorc and I agreed to both reset our CP to 0. And that's with me playing a DOT-oriented Magicka Necromancer (since that's the only way I see them being remotely viable in an offensive capacity). I didn't do enough fights without CP to make a determination about how this "new meta" might impact BGs or no-CP Cyrodiil, but with CP enabled basically everyone seemed immortal in 1v1.

    Nobody dies 1v1 in open world cyrodiil in the current game. Don't need the PTS for that. Open world solo players run tanky builds, it's the only way to 1vx.

    I'm a solo and I duel plenty of other solos, we kill each other all the time.

    Tanky? Of course, why be squishy and die in a few shots.

    I'll still solo in PvP regardless of the DoT changes, I will probably switch to resto staff instead of SnB but, I think this is overreaction.
    Raise your arguments, not your insults.
    Look past your own perspective, and see the world as a whole.

    Jodynn/Jo_oJ PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
  • Stibbons
    Stibbons
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    Dot meta or just only burst meta? I think actual dots will be more meningfull than now. Good balance now on test server. Tried 11 chars on duels and seems ok.
  • Abhaya
    Abhaya
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    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    If you go to the pts and duel, you'll notice most duels end pretty fast because dot dmg is out of control. Stamina will be screwed if they nerf vigor and not rapid regen.
    That wasn't my experience in some limited 1v1 fights in CP-Enabled Cyrodiil; literally no one died, ever, until a Sorc and I agreed to both reset our CP to 0. And that's with me playing a DOT-oriented Magicka Necromancer (since that's the only way I see them being remotely viable in an offensive capacity). I didn't do enough fights without CP to make a determination about how this "new meta" might impact BGs or no-CP Cyrodiil, but with CP enabled basically everyone seemed immortal in 1v1.
    From dueling on PTS stam-sorc vs stam-sorc and stam-sorc vs stam-necro it seems damage was pretty high but nothing crazy. It all came down to lining up a burst combo. I’m not sure what the others were wearing but I was running medium with fortified brass and a damage set and if I landed my combo first I would win and if they landed theirs first they would win. Interestingly every person was using two-hand / bow and I didn’t get the chance to duel any mag or dot builds. This was with CP.
    Abhaya - PC NA - Ebonheart Pact
    Stam Sorc 2-Hand / Bow Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=169103
  • GreenSoup2HoT
    GreenSoup2HoT
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Jeezye wrote: »
    That efficient purge will be god damn stronk again. Just saying.

    Nope, efficient purge and cleanse were both nerfed. They no longer reduce the duration of all negative effects.

    Debateable. It reduces 3 effects instead of 2. Also Piercing Mark is now 2 negative effects. On my stamblade i use eff purge since i run vamp and duel stat regen. I got like 1400 mag regen and purge all the time. This is a huge buff for me. Gonna be real hard to catch me now that i can cleanse any marks or reveals and just dip out.
    PS4 NA DC
  • wheem_ESO
    wheem_ESO
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    If you go to the pts and duel, you'll notice most duels end pretty fast because dot dmg is out of control. Stamina will be screwed if they nerf vigor and not rapid regen.
    That wasn't my experience in some limited 1v1 fights in CP-Enabled Cyrodiil; literally no one died, ever, until a Sorc and I agreed to both reset our CP to 0. And that's with me playing a DOT-oriented Magicka Necromancer (since that's the only way I see them being remotely viable in an offensive capacity). I didn't do enough fights without CP to make a determination about how this "new meta" might impact BGs or no-CP Cyrodiil, but with CP enabled basically everyone seemed immortal in 1v1.

    Nobody dies 1v1 in open world cyrodiil in the current game. Don't need the PTS for that. Open world solo players run tanky builds, it's the only way to 1vx.
    PTS-Cyrodiil and Live-Cyrodiil aren't perfectly comparable; I don't think all that many people go into PTS-Cyrodiil expecting to put together a 1vX montage, since there aren't that many opponents around...and certainly no zergs of not-good-players that can be picked apart. The reasons I went to Cyrodiil instead of looking for duels is that, 1) I *might* get fights bigger than 1v1, and 2) Terrain is more of a factor, and I stand a better chance of seeing how Blastbones' nerf-reversions work out. Unfortunately, both reasons turned out to be a bust. There were too few people and the fights all happened in small, flat, open areas.

    Either way, my experience wasn't consistent with what you were claiming happens in duels. I was using all 3 "new" Magicka DOTs, along with Blastbones and the newly buffed version of the Skeletal Mage. Opponents in CP-enabled PvP were by no means melting against "out of control" DOT damage with Necropotence + Bright-Throat's Boast. Were they built more defensively than the people you've dueled? Maybe. I didn't bother asking what everyone was running, but none were dedicated tank builds or anything.

    It's possible that DOT damage is "out of control" in 1v1 situations without CP being involved, but I didn't get nearly enough fights to form an opinion on that.
  • cHIIMEERa
    cHIIMEERa
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    yodased wrote: »
    Now just have DOTs remove you from cloak again and all will be right in the world.

    Then they can go ahead and remove medium armor right along with that change.
    “Good judgement is the result of experience and experience the result of bad judgement.” ― Mark Twain
  • katorga
    katorga
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    cHIIMEERa wrote: »
    yodased wrote: »
    Now just have DOTs remove you from cloak again and all will be right in the world.

    Then they can go ahead and remove medium armor right along with that change.

    Man, the dot meta is going to cause a crescendo of calls on the forums to nerf cloak. it may even surpass the perpetual cries to nerf shields.
    Edited by katorga on August 1, 2019 2:20PM
  • Abhaya
    Abhaya
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    cHIIMEERa wrote: »
    yodased wrote: »
    Now just have DOTs remove you from cloak again and all will be right in the world.

    Then they can go ahead and remove medium armor right along with that change.

    My medium stam sorc does pretty good without cloak. It must be really hard being able to cheese any DOTs while your bleeds are ticking away on the enemy.
    Abhaya - PC NA - Ebonheart Pact
    Stam Sorc 2-Hand / Bow Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=169103
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
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    Abhaya wrote: »
    cHIIMEERa wrote: »
    yodased wrote: »
    Now just have DOTs remove you from cloak again and all will be right in the world.

    Then they can go ahead and remove medium armor right along with that change.

    My medium stam sorc does pretty good without cloak. It must be really hard being able to cheese any DOTs while your bleeds are ticking away on the enemy.

    I agree, crit surge, dark deal, vigor and if applicable blood craze, bloodthirst, rally, crushing weapon and draining shot give lots of heals. Need even more? Slot troll king. Sorcs get 20% more hp regen from daedric summoning
  • Abhaya
    Abhaya
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    JobooAGS wrote: »
    Abhaya wrote: »
    cHIIMEERa wrote: »
    yodased wrote: »
    Now just have DOTs remove you from cloak again and all will be right in the world.

    Then they can go ahead and remove medium armor right along with that change.

    My medium stam sorc does pretty good without cloak. It must be really hard being able to cheese any DOTs while your bleeds are ticking away on the enemy.

    I agree, crit surge, dark deal, vigor and if applicable blood craze, bloodthirst, rally, crushing weapon and draining shot give lots of heals. Need even more? Slot troll king. Sorcs get 20% more hp regen from daedric summoning

    7 of the 9 heals you listed are available to every class; 1 of them is an interruptable channel that doesn’t scale with stats, 1 of them scales with magicka CP rather than stam, performs poorly in no-CP where crit is generally low, and was heavily nerfed with the introduction of an internal CD already, and the deadric summoning passives require you to double slot bound armor while NB gets 15% HP regen without wasting 20% of their already limited bar space. Nice comparison though.
    Abhaya - PC NA - Ebonheart Pact
    Stam Sorc 2-Hand / Bow Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=169103
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
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    Abhaya wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    Abhaya wrote: »
    cHIIMEERa wrote: »
    yodased wrote: »
    Now just have DOTs remove you from cloak again and all will be right in the world.

    Then they can go ahead and remove medium armor right along with that change.

    My medium stam sorc does pretty good without cloak. It must be really hard being able to cheese any DOTs while your bleeds are ticking away on the enemy.

    I agree, crit surge, dark deal, vigor and if applicable blood craze, bloodthirst, rally, crushing weapon and draining shot give lots of heals. Need even more? Slot troll king. Sorcs get 20% more hp regen from daedric summoning

    7 of the 9 heals you listed are available to every class; 1 of them is an interruptable channel that doesn’t scale with stats, 1 of them scales with magicka CP rather than stam, performs poorly in no-CP where crit is generally low, and was heavily nerfed with the introduction of an internal CD already, and the deadric summoning passives require you to double slot bound armor while NB gets 15% HP regen without wasting 20% of their already limited bar space. Nice comparison though.

    You misunderstood me, I am saying that medium stam sorc does well, even without cloak due to all the heals avaliable to them. I have 2 medium stam sorcs and have lots of fun with both.

    On medium you should still hit 25-33% crit rating or more (35-43% with major savergy) using regular pvp builds in no cp, so procing crit surge isnt an issue.

    Bound arraments is a good skill to slot, even on 1 bar. the 8% max stam, 11% light attack dmg are very useful in combat and the 37% block mitigation is extremely useful for surviability. But it is not nessesary for a good build. Though I agree it is stupid for the passive to be tied to slotting a skill that there are only 2 in the whole tree a stam sorc would even touch and one is an ult.

    Dark deal you have a point that it can be interrupted especially during a time when you may need it most (the main reason why I hate cast time abilities and one of the reasons why on all of my bow builds I will never slot snipe) However, there is a grace period that allows you to spam it without fear of interrupts.
  • Abhaya
    Abhaya
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    @JobooAGS This is true. I’m hoping they untie some of the deadric summoning passives from pets/bound armor with the passives audit.
    Abhaya - PC NA - Ebonheart Pact
    Stam Sorc 2-Hand / Bow Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=169103
  • No_Division
    No_Division
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    non issue, at least till we test it with REAL combat and not abstract duels that dont translate well across wide spectrum of combat. In my opinion, dots were standardized to function as they should, but so were hots. So on paper the two cancel each other out since dmg has to run through CP/Armor/crit resists while healing only has to go through defile sources.
  • katorga
    katorga
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    Abhaya wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    Abhaya wrote: »
    cHIIMEERa wrote: »
    yodased wrote: »
    Now just have DOTs remove you from cloak again and all will be right in the world.

    Then they can go ahead and remove medium armor right along with that change.

    My medium stam sorc does pretty good without cloak. It must be really hard being able to cheese any DOTs while your bleeds are ticking away on the enemy.

    I agree, crit surge, dark deal, vigor and if applicable blood craze, bloodthirst, rally, crushing weapon and draining shot give lots of heals. Need even more? Slot troll king. Sorcs get 20% more hp regen from daedric summoning

    7 of the 9 heals you listed are available to every class; 1 of them is an interruptable channel that doesn’t scale with stats, 1 of them scales with magicka CP rather than stam, performs poorly in no-CP where crit is generally low, and was heavily nerfed with the introduction of an internal CD already, and the deadric summoning passives require you to double slot bound armor while NB gets 15% HP regen without wasting 20% of their already limited bar space. Nice comparison though.

    Next patch slot power surge, you still get brutality if you need it and a lower heal, but it uses any crit source to proc. More sources of crit, more heals even with a lower crit rate.
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    So much of the worries here are due to CP.

    You got the Thaum line, you got the mag or phys damage line, you got the crit line, and you got the penetration line.

    I'm looking forward to these updates in No CP, I dread them in CP.

    As for no CP, curse eater, Templars, necro have some interesting interactions against such builds.

    Again, in no CP looks interesting
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er
    Shepherd of Rot - Stamina Necromancer BG Archer - No Gank
  • Urusovite
    Urusovite
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    So much of the worries here are due to CP.

    You got the Thaum line, you got the mag or phys damage line, you got the crit line, and you got the penetration line.

    I'm looking forward to these updates in No CP, I dread them in CP.

    As for no CP, curse eater, Templars, necro have some interesting interactions against such builds.

    Again, in no CP looks interesting

    Passive damage is a problem in no cp. The sheer amount of dots available now will make no cp hellish too
    Edited by Urusovite on August 1, 2019 6:16PM
    PS4 NA
    Medium Stam Dk since launch
    Technologically incompetent I'm told

    Solo play is the only way
  • Ulfgarde
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    Hmm seems like it's relevant to talk about the DOT meta again, as this patch has hit live and a lot of people noticed the issue of dot stacking in open world.

    Bumping so more people + ZOS can be more aware of this issue.
    Very athletic eso player
    PC EU
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
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    Urusovite wrote: »
    So much of the worries here are due to CP.

    You got the Thaum line, you got the mag or phys damage line, you got the crit line, and you got the penetration line.

    I'm looking forward to these updates in No CP, I dread them in CP.

    As for no CP, curse eater, Templars, necro have some interesting interactions against such builds.

    Again, in no CP looks interesting

    Passive damage is a problem in no cp. The sheer amount of dots available now will make no cp hellish too

    To be fair no cp is already hellish
    Raise your arguments, not your insults.
    Look past your own perspective, and see the world as a whole.

    Jodynn/Jo_oJ PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
  • Rake
    Rake
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    yes
  • DHale
    DHale
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    I want to sincerely thank the thin skinned forum warriors into not putting extra points into thick skinned. You (yes you reading this) are why I made 113 k of AP in one hour and three minutes last night. See you tonight!
    Sorcerna, proud beta sorc.
    RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases.
    Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Beacuse a 6 k shield is f ing useless.
    Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew.
    16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 1444 plus 16 level 50 toons.
    NA, PC, Kaal
    #SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.
  • ZOS_AntonioP
    Hello everyone,

    With the mass of dots showing up on the forum recap, we're going to start closing down a mass of these threads. We'll leave this current discussion open on the topic so feel free to discuss the topic there.

    Thank you for understanding!
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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