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The DoT meta will destroy the last of solo PvP

Ulfgarde
Ulfgarde
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I don't want to be alarmist in my post, but it's actually startling how no one has talked much about the impact of dots in PvP in the upcoming patch.

If you're not aware, the following DOTS are buffed next patch:

Entropy: Increased the damage from all morphs by approximately 220%.

Soul Trap: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 161%.

Twin Slashes: Increased the Damage over Time from this ability and its morphs by approximately 37%. (but bleeds don't ignore armor)

Poison Arrow: Increased the damage over time portion on all morphs by approximately 78% per tick.


For the most part, most of the class DoTs (Vamp's Bane, Cripple, Fetcher) were buffed by roughly 17%.

Now it may look like some nice small buffs to dots, since ZOS is also nerfing ground AOEs to make PVE less static supposedly. So to balance that, single-target dots were buffed. This seems like a massive oversight in PvP. Now the total damage incoming is going to be way higher whereas the single-target DIRECT DAMAGE is exactly the same as it was before.

Why would you buff dot pressure, though? The damage in PvP has already gotten progressively ramped up over the years, and the methods of mitigating them have become less available or viable. And it takes no effort to keep up dots. Many builds still use entropy for Major Sorcery so it's going to become an ever bigger pick.

It's gotten to the point in duels where your opponent will dot you, you go full offensive, but if your class doesn't have offensive healing going, you'll just melt to pressure. How is that fair in any way? You literally get punished for attacking your opponent when he is spamming heals. What are the reprecussions in open world PvP, if it's already ridiculous pressure out of thin air?

It's not like a DOT build is only going to use burst and nothing else. It's going to use the same offensive burst as it would in a live build, except its pressure will skyrocket by stacking dots. If your class has no answer to DOTs (cloak, purge, etc.), you simply will find solo hellish. Not to mention if you're getting outnumbered, more dots will be stacked by multiple people. Not to mention some classes (magDK cough) simply don't have an answer to DoT stacking.

And then you might wonder: "What about the self-healing buffs?" The thing is, the healing buffs aren't the answer. You're still going to take obscene damage in an outnumbered scenario, and dots will keep your HoT healing down. Defile becomes inflated in power (from stam blastbones, snipe, soul harvest, etc.) because it's reducing more healing Plus how is pigeon-holing Magicka into running resto back-bar good design? And if you're not running dots, everyone will outheal your damage easily. So you've basically forced people to run one or two DoTs on every build to stand a chance against the new healing changes.

As a final example, this is my tooltip on fetcher next patch (magden).

eso64_2019-07-13_21-50-43.png

For the record it's about 19K-20K on live with the same build. I'm running an open world setup with necro/lich with decent sustain.

You cannot allow this to hit live.
Edited by Ulfgarde on July 30, 2019 4:22PM
Very athletic eso player
PC EU
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
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    With 2 patches left on the PTS, I think it's going to happen.

    Even though I play a class that can negate DoTs, I still fear we are going to see an insane amount of damage from certain builds.

    The last two patches will likely refine housing, crown store, events, quest dialogue issues, etc. Nothing really important basically.
    Edited by brandonv516 on July 30, 2019 4:13PM
  • katorga
    katorga
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    With 2 patches left on the PTS, I think it's going to happen.

    Even though I play a class that can negate DoTs, I still fear we are going to see an insane amount of damage from certain builds.

    The last two patches will likely refine housing, crown store, events, quest dialogue issues, etc. Nothing really important basically.

    Meh. Meta's change. ZOS radically restructures the game every 4 months or so. For good or ill.

    Half the population will scream about op dots, the other half about op heals. Average players will love the slower "rotation" of just refreshing dots in pve.

    With sheer number of "effects" that get put on targets through a normal rotation, I don't think purge will be a viable defense, especially the necro purge which is essentially a healing debuff.
  • UppGRAYxDD
    UppGRAYxDD
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    DoTs + Onslaught = Profit....
    "Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."
  • No_Division
    No_Division
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    Ulfgarde wrote: »
    You're ignoring that they buffed Vigor (by a *** lot) and rapid regen, everyone will still have answers for dots. Also (in CP) damage is not out of control, everyone is so *** tanky that buffing dots is actually a smart idea imo.

    Except s&b is gone (not completely but it won't be meta), pirate skele is gone, protective will be way worse etc. Onslaught exists so resists will less attractive.

    And by the way entropy tooltips can easily reach around 24k, soul trap was like 22k. With fetcher that's about 76k damage over 10 seconds with major breach and minor vuln. So I wonder if I do shalk + ele weapon + clench spam how well you will fare with those three DoTs ticking.

    Also how is it smart to buff healing? I just said that, to kill someone with that amount of healing, I need to run dots to have a chance at killing them. If I don't, I simply won't be able to kill them. So they've literally just forced everyone to run DoTs and it kills HoT healing in an outnumbered situation. Even in a duel it's apparent.

    2s dot ticks. So 24k tooltip is really hitting for 5 ticks (10s duration) so 4800 per tick. Tack on battlespirit, basic CP and enough armor to keep 10% after penetration and you'll have 1555 every 2s for a total of 7776 dmg. That seems to be in line with every dot available. Though some dots are under (reflective light) but have different utility.
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    Davadin wrote: »
    agree.

    but then again, on PTS, my stamDK has Vigor (no Major Mending) at nearly 30k in 5 sec.....

    Lol no it doesnt. Just stop. Avg tooltip 14.5k plus 80% is not 30k before major on a real build.
    For All Those Who Don’t Understand What Real Balancing is, or What The Word Buff Means in Video Games:
    Please just stop (with the nerfomancing). We are all sick of people like you, no offense. Just play the game w/o gear or armor. You are going to die and scream anyway.

    Otherwise I don’t mind helping you fix your build for either PvE or PvP. Just hit me up w/ a PM.
  • Lord_Eomer
    Lord_Eomer
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    Doubt DOT buff is going to be problem if having enough resistance and hot

    Some classes , Support Skill and sets for puge can have good use now
    Edited by Lord_Eomer on July 30, 2019 5:39PM
  • Aedaryl
    Aedaryl
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    You forgot the HoT meta part?

    Just sorc is *** hard because shields aren't sustainable and they got nerfed.

    Other will profit a lot from their own class healing modifier.
  • dcam86b14_ESO
    dcam86b14_ESO
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    so in your own opinions, what should a healer be running set wise or skill wise to counter this meta in pvp?
  • Insco851
    Insco851
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    Heals got massive buffs in comparison. Tankiness got nerfed from various sources. Does it balance? We shall see
  • Littlebluelizard
    Littlebluelizard
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    Ulfgarde wrote: »
    You're ignoring that they buffed Vigor (by a *** lot) and rapid regen, everyone will still have answers for dots. Also (in CP) damage is not out of control, everyone is so *** tanky that buffing dots is actually a smart idea imo.

    Except s&b is gone (not completely but it won't be meta), pirate skele is gone, protective will be way worse etc. Onslaught exists so resists will less attractive.

    And by the way entropy tooltips can easily reach around 24k, soul trap was like 22k. With fetcher that's about 76k damage over 10 seconds with major breach and minor vuln. So I wonder if I do shalk + ele weapon + clench spam how well you will fare with those three DoTs ticking.

    Also how is it smart to buff healing? I just said that, to kill someone with that amount of healing, I need to run dots to have a chance at killing them. If I don't, I simply won't be able to kill them. So they've literally just forced everyone to run DoTs and it kills HoT healing in an outnumbered situation. Even in a duel it's apparent.

    You're not tanky necessarily because of red CP, blue CP kind of counter that already. You're tanky because you reach 25k HP easily, have easy time with resource management and with a few points for healing CP (both blue and red) you can get +20% healing, that's almost major mending. Protective is worse yeah, but it's not useless. Onslaught will not give you pen vs dots so it's not as strong, I don't think it will be as strong after last pts patch.

    I didn't say it was smart to buff healing - I meant it was smart to buff dots, since fights in CP takes 5-10 minutes minimum to kill a decent player, giving you options to fight that - dots - is smart. But they couldn't just buff dots without giving you a option to fight it (rapid regen mainly, vigor is overperforming on PTS, even ZOS agreed on last patch notes), so yeah I think the idea is fine, the numbers might not be there (either too much dps or too low) but numbers are easy to fix now that they have a standard fix with cost vs damage for abilities.

    As a side note, you can punish dot focused builds quite easily, you don't sit there waiting for him to do all their rotation on you, you're not a target dummy. You will be stunning, snaring, damaging, using line of sight, and so on. Like I said, if things aren't balanced enough, it will be in a matter of numbers, easily fixed. The big changes like how a skill works/skill effects, those are the hardest to balance.
    Edited by Littlebluelizard on July 30, 2019 6:49PM
  • kaithuzar
    kaithuzar
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    You're ignoring that they buffed Vigor (by a *** lot) and rapid regen, everyone will still have answers for dots. Also (in CP) damage is not out of control, everyone is so *** tanky that buffing dots is actually a smart idea imo.

    THAT is precisely the type of thought that kills build diversity!!!
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  • DarkGottbeard
    DarkGottbeard
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    Ulfgarde wrote: »
    I don't want to be alarmist in my post, but it's actually startling how no one has talked much about the impact of dots in PvP in the upcoming patch.

    If you're not aware, the following DOTS are buffed next patch:

    Entropy: Increased the damage from all morphs by approximately 220%.

    Soul Trap: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 161%.

    Twin Slashes: Increased the Damage over Time from this ability and its morphs by approximately 37%. (but bleeds don't ignore armor)

    Poison Arrow: Increased the damage over time portion on all morphs by approximately 78% per tick.


    For the most part, most of the class DoTs (Vamp's Bane, Cripple, Fetcher) were buffed by roughly 17%.

    Now it may look like some nice small buffs to dots, since ZOS is also nerfing ground AOEs to make PVE less static supposedly. So to balance that, single-target dots were buffed. This seems like a massive oversight in PvP. Now the total damage incoming is going to be way higher whereas the single-target DIRECT DAMAGE is exactly the same as it was before.

    Why would you buff dot pressure, though? The damage in PvP has already gotten progressively ramped up over the years, and the methods of mitigating them have become less available or viable. And it takes no effort to keep up dots. Many builds still use entropy for Major Sorcery so it's going to become an ever bigger pick.

    It's gotten to the point in duels where your opponent will dot you, you go full offensive, but if your class doesn't have offensive healing going, you'll just melt to pressure. How is that fair in any way? You literally get punished for attacking your opponent when he is spamming heals. What are the reprecussions in open world PvP, if it's already ridiculous pressure out of thin air?

    It's not like a DOT build is only going to use burst and nothing else. It's going to use the same offensive burst as it would in a live build, except its pressure will skyrocket by stacking dots. If your class has no answer to DOTs (cloak, purge, etc.), you simply will find solo hellish. Not to mention if you're getting outnumbered, more dots will be stacked by multiple people. Not to mention some classes (magDK cough) simply don't have an answer to DoT stacking.

    And then you might wonder: "What about the self-healing buffs?" The thing is, the healing buffs aren't the answer. You're still going to take obscene damage in an outnumbered scenario, and dots will keep your HoT healing down. Defile becomes inflated in power (from stam blastbones, snipe, soul harvest, etc.) because it's reducing more healing Plus how is pigeon-holing Magicka into running resto back-bar good design? And if you're not running dots, everyone will outheal your damage easily. So you've basically forced people to run one or two DoTs on every build to stand a chance against the new healing changes.

    As a final example, this is my tooltip on fetcher next patch (magden).

    eso64_2019-07-13_21-50-43.png

    For the record it's about 19K-20K on live with the same build. I'm running an open world setup with necro/lich with decent sustain.

    You cannot allow this to hit live.

    I mean what is the point of talking about it. Majority of the game loves dots. ZoS designs to the majority. They want to make money. They had a skill based game where you were punished for using a skill at the wrong time, and everything had a counter in real time. The majority of people hated it. They didn't make money. So they changed it to this thing. The majority of people like it. They are making money.

    The only balance they care bout is @ the bank. I'm not surprised and 100% expect the dot buffs to go live and probably get buffed a few more times over the years.
  • Jeezye
    Jeezye
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    That efficient purge will be god damn stronk again. Just saying.
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    I agree 100% poison injection did NOT need a buff and entropy is a pretty heavy utility skill which doesn’t seem like it needs a lot of damage. That said, the age of the Templar draws nigh. Rejoice my brethren of the light.
    Edited by Vapirko on July 30, 2019 9:24PM
  • katorga
    katorga
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    Ulfgarde wrote: »
    I don't want to be alarmist in my post, but it's actually startling how no one has talked much about the impact of dots in PvP in the upcoming patch.

    If you're not aware, the following DOTS are buffed next patch:

    Entropy: Increased the damage from all morphs by approximately 220%.

    Soul Trap: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 161%.

    Twin Slashes: Increased the Damage over Time from this ability and its morphs by approximately 37%. (but bleeds don't ignore armor)

    Poison Arrow: Increased the damage over time portion on all morphs by approximately 78% per tick.


    For the most part, most of the class DoTs (Vamp's Bane, Cripple, Fetcher) were buffed by roughly 17%.

    Now it may look like some nice small buffs to dots, since ZOS is also nerfing ground AOEs to make PVE less static supposedly. So to balance that, single-target dots were buffed. This seems like a massive oversight in PvP. Now the total damage incoming is going to be way higher whereas the single-target DIRECT DAMAGE is exactly the same as it was before.

    Why would you buff dot pressure, though? The damage in PvP has already gotten progressively ramped up over the years, and the methods of mitigating them have become less available or viable. And it takes no effort to keep up dots. Many builds still use entropy for Major Sorcery so it's going to become an ever bigger pick.

    It's gotten to the point in duels where your opponent will dot you, you go full offensive, but if your class doesn't have offensive healing going, you'll just melt to pressure. How is that fair in any way? You literally get punished for attacking your opponent when he is spamming heals. What are the reprecussions in open world PvP, if it's already ridiculous pressure out of thin air?

    It's not like a DOT build is only going to use burst and nothing else. It's going to use the same offensive burst as it would in a live build, except its pressure will skyrocket by stacking dots. If your class has no answer to DOTs (cloak, purge, etc.), you simply will find solo hellish. Not to mention if you're getting outnumbered, more dots will be stacked by multiple people. Not to mention some classes (magDK cough) simply don't have an answer to DoT stacking.

    And then you might wonder: "What about the self-healing buffs?" The thing is, the healing buffs aren't the answer. You're still going to take obscene damage in an outnumbered scenario, and dots will keep your HoT healing down. Defile becomes inflated in power (from stam blastbones, snipe, soul harvest, etc.) because it's reducing more healing Plus how is pigeon-holing Magicka into running resto back-bar good design? And if you're not running dots, everyone will outheal your damage easily. So you've basically forced people to run one or two DoTs on every build to stand a chance against the new healing changes.

    As a final example, this is my tooltip on fetcher next patch (magden).

    eso64_2019-07-13_21-50-43.png

    For the record it's about 19K-20K on live with the same build. I'm running an open world setup with necro/lich with decent sustain.

    You cannot allow this to hit live.

    I mean what is the point of talking about it. Majority of the game loves dots. ZoS designs to the majority.

    Point taken. Where the streamers complain about boring rotations, average players have a much slower, easier rotation because dots have a 10 second cool down basically. Clipping your dot is not as punishing to your dps as messing up an instant damage weave rotation, and the dots continue to tick while they run around avoiding red.

  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    Haven't been close to the notes this shift but I'm not enjoying what I am hearing for the way this will impact PvP :( will get my finger out and get reading.
    Xbox One | EU | EP
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  • Urusovite
    Urusovite
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    Davadin wrote: »
    agree.

    but then again, on PTS, my stamDK has Vigor (no Major Mending) at nearly 30k in 5 sec.....

    Good luck healing a 30k fletcher, 28k entropy, ST, and any other pressure being applied. Then remember multiple people can do the same thing and you'll have a stupid amount of dots on you in no time. Passive damage is a poor way to design PvP. Not to mention we're still going to see a heavy meta since the bleeds were actually buffed against anyone who isn't running high resistances (aka medium/light).
    Edited by Urusovite on July 30, 2019 10:15PM
    PS4 NA
    Medium Stam Dk since launch
    Technologically incompetent I'm told

    Solo play is the only way
  • wheem_ESO
    wheem_ESO
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    If ZOS wants to make changes to the "generic" magicka DOTs, I hope it accompanies some big changes to the Necromancer class. This new "DOT Meta" is the only way Magicka Necromancer gets any viable offense right now; the toolkit available through class skills and the live-version of generic magicka skills just doesn't cut it.

    They've been needing to do something to make Entropy more worthwhile for a long time, as it's vastly inferior to Major Brutality options on live. So if it's not going to be a worthwhile DOT, it needs to do something else that makes it better than nothing but 20 seconds worth of Major Sorcery. Then maybe change some of the Necromancer class abilities to be DOTs that are actually worth using, so that the +10% DOT Damage class passive is something other than a bleed-damage buff for Stamina Necromancers.
  • TheNightflame
    TheNightflame
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    tbh yeah, ground aoes are basically just pve, they can easily be made to control pve dps allowing pvp to be almost a separate game
  • ecru
    ecru
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    Ulfgarde wrote: »
    You're ignoring that they buffed Vigor (by a *** lot) and rapid regen, everyone will still have answers for dots. Also (in CP) damage is not out of control, everyone is so *** tanky that buffing dots is actually a smart idea imo.

    Except s&b is gone (not completely but it won't be meta), pirate skele is gone, protective will be way worse etc. Onslaught exists so resists will less attractive.

    And by the way entropy tooltips can easily reach around 24k, soul trap was like 22k. With fetcher that's about 76k damage over 10 seconds with major breach and minor vuln. So I wonder if I do shalk + ele weapon + clench spam how well you will fare with those three DoTs ticking.

    Also how is it smart to buff healing? I just said that, to kill someone with that amount of healing, I need to run dots to have a chance at killing them. If I don't, I simply won't be able to kill them. So they've literally just forced everyone to run DoTs and it kills HoT healing in an outnumbered situation. Even in a duel it's apparent.

    2s dot ticks. So 24k tooltip is really hitting for 5 ticks (10s duration) so 4800 per tick. Tack on battlespirit, basic CP and enough armor to keep 10% after penetration and you'll have 1555 every 2s for a total of 7776 dmg. That seems to be in line with every dot available. Though some dots are under (reflective light) but have different utility.

    it's in line with every dot available, but in the past the only way to stack multiple high damage dots was to get into melee range and do it with a class dot and some bleeds.

    now mag can do it from range with three very high damage dots. this is a completely different situation than we have on live.

    then you can throw a class dot (or two) on top of entropy, soul trap, and destructive touch.

    we'll have situations in BGs where if you're melee, you get within 28m of the other team and you get 3-4 sets of these dots dropped on you with no real counterplay available. your vigor isn't gonna save you then.
    katorga wrote: »

    Ulfgarde wrote: »
    I don't want to be alarmist in my post, but it's actually startling how no one has talked much about the impact of dots in PvP in the upcoming patch.

    If you're not aware, the following DOTS are buffed next patch:

    Entropy: Increased the damage from all morphs by approximately 220%.

    Soul Trap: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 161%.

    Twin Slashes: Increased the Damage over Time from this ability and its morphs by approximately 37%. (but bleeds don't ignore armor)

    Poison Arrow: Increased the damage over time portion on all morphs by approximately 78% per tick.


    For the most part, most of the class DoTs (Vamp's Bane, Cripple, Fetcher) were buffed by roughly 17%.

    Now it may look like some nice small buffs to dots, since ZOS is also nerfing ground AOEs to make PVE less static supposedly. So to balance that, single-target dots were buffed. This seems like a massive oversight in PvP. Now the total damage incoming is going to be way higher whereas the single-target DIRECT DAMAGE is exactly the same as it was before.

    Why would you buff dot pressure, though? The damage in PvP has already gotten progressively ramped up over the years, and the methods of mitigating them have become less available or viable. And it takes no effort to keep up dots. Many builds still use entropy for Major Sorcery so it's going to become an ever bigger pick.

    It's gotten to the point in duels where your opponent will dot you, you go full offensive, but if your class doesn't have offensive healing going, you'll just melt to pressure. How is that fair in any way? You literally get punished for attacking your opponent when he is spamming heals. What are the reprecussions in open world PvP, if it's already ridiculous pressure out of thin air?

    It's not like a DOT build is only going to use burst and nothing else. It's going to use the same offensive burst as it would in a live build, except its pressure will skyrocket by stacking dots. If your class has no answer to DOTs (cloak, purge, etc.), you simply will find solo hellish. Not to mention if you're getting outnumbered, more dots will be stacked by multiple people. Not to mention some classes (magDK cough) simply don't have an answer to DoT stacking.

    And then you might wonder: "What about the self-healing buffs?" The thing is, the healing buffs aren't the answer. You're still going to take obscene damage in an outnumbered scenario, and dots will keep your HoT healing down. Defile becomes inflated in power (from stam blastbones, snipe, soul harvest, etc.) because it's reducing more healing Plus how is pigeon-holing Magicka into running resto back-bar good design? And if you're not running dots, everyone will outheal your damage easily. So you've basically forced people to run one or two DoTs on every build to stand a chance against the new healing changes.

    As a final example, this is my tooltip on fetcher next patch (magden).

    eso64_2019-07-13_21-50-43.png

    For the record it's about 19K-20K on live with the same build. I'm running an open world setup with necro/lich with decent sustain.

    You cannot allow this to hit live.

    I mean what is the point of talking about it. Majority of the game loves dots. ZoS designs to the majority.

    Point taken. Where the streamers complain about boring rotations, average players have a much slower, easier rotation because dots have a 10 second cool down basically. Clipping your dot is not as punishing to your dps as messing up an instant damage weave rotation, and the dots continue to tick while they run around avoiding red.

    wat

    rotations are much more difficult to reach the ceiling on pts than on live. magcro is ezpz on live and a pain in the ass on pts because of the dots. refreshing dots on cd isn't as easy as you suggest it is, otherwise we'd see a lot of 93-94k necro parses on pts but i've only seen mine and like one other.
    Edited by ecru on July 31, 2019 12:02AM
    Gryphon Heart
  • katorga
    katorga
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    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    If ZOS wants to make changes to the "generic" magicka DOTs, I hope it accompanies some big changes to the Necromancer class. This new "DOT Meta" is the only way Magicka Necromancer gets any viable offense right now; the toolkit available through class skills and the live-version of generic magicka skills just doesn't cut it.

    They've been needing to do something to make Entropy more worthwhile for a long time, as it's vastly inferior to Major Brutality options on live. So if it's not going to be a worthwhile DOT, it needs to do something else that makes it better than nothing but 20 seconds worth of Major Sorcery. Then maybe change some of the Necromancer class abilities to be DOTs that are actually worth using, so that the +10% DOT Damage class passive is something other than a bleed-damage buff for Stamina Necromancers.

    10% dot damage doesn't really justify necro in a dot meta. You can buff all damage more on sorc, NB. But at least it is something. Oddly necro doesn't really have anything I'd call a useful dot.

    Detonating Siphon and its morphs are so impossible to actually cause damage with in pvp, that no one made a peep when they made it ZERO COST. Think about that, a free 20K+ dot and no one cares. That is how bad it is.
    Edited by katorga on July 31, 2019 12:19AM
  • katorga
    katorga
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    ecru wrote: »
    Ulfgarde wrote: »
    You're ignoring that they buffed Vigor (by a *** lot) and rapid regen, everyone will still have answers for dots. Also (in CP) damage is not out of control, everyone is so *** tanky that buffing dots is actually a smart idea imo.

    Except s&b is gone (not completely but it won't be meta), pirate skele is gone, protective will be way worse etc. Onslaught exists so resists will less attractive.

    And by the way entropy tooltips can easily reach around 24k, soul trap was like 22k. With fetcher that's about 76k damage over 10 seconds with major breach and minor vuln. So I wonder if I do shalk + ele weapon + clench spam how well you will fare with those three DoTs ticking.

    Also how is it smart to buff healing? I just said that, to kill someone with that amount of healing, I need to run dots to have a chance at killing them. If I don't, I simply won't be able to kill them. So they've literally just forced everyone to run DoTs and it kills HoT healing in an outnumbered situation. Even in a duel it's apparent.

    2s dot ticks. So 24k tooltip is really hitting for 5 ticks (10s duration) so 4800 per tick. Tack on battlespirit, basic CP and enough armor to keep 10% after penetration and you'll have 1555 every 2s for a total of 7776 dmg. That seems to be in line with every dot available. Though some dots are under (reflective light) but have different utility.

    it's in line with every dot available, but in the past the only way to stack multiple high damage dots was to get into melee range and do it with a class dot and some bleeds.

    now mag can do it from range with three very high damage dots. this is a completely different situation than we have on live.

    then you can throw a class dot (or two) on top of entropy, soul trap, and destructive touch.

    we'll have situations in BGs where if you're melee, you get within 28m of the other team and you get 3-4 sets of these dots dropped on you with no real counterplay available. your vigor isn't gonna save you then.
    katorga wrote: »

    Ulfgarde wrote: »
    I don't want to be alarmist in my post, but it's actually startling how no one has talked much about the impact of dots in PvP in the upcoming patch.

    If you're not aware, the following DOTS are buffed next patch:

    Entropy: Increased the damage from all morphs by approximately 220%.

    Soul Trap: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 161%.

    Twin Slashes: Increased the Damage over Time from this ability and its morphs by approximately 37%. (but bleeds don't ignore armor)

    Poison Arrow: Increased the damage over time portion on all morphs by approximately 78% per tick.


    For the most part, most of the class DoTs (Vamp's Bane, Cripple, Fetcher) were buffed by roughly 17%.

    Now it may look like some nice small buffs to dots, since ZOS is also nerfing ground AOEs to make PVE less static supposedly. So to balance that, single-target dots were buffed. This seems like a massive oversight in PvP. Now the total damage incoming is going to be way higher whereas the single-target DIRECT DAMAGE is exactly the same as it was before.

    Why would you buff dot pressure, though? The damage in PvP has already gotten progressively ramped up over the years, and the methods of mitigating them have become less available or viable. And it takes no effort to keep up dots. Many builds still use entropy for Major Sorcery so it's going to become an ever bigger pick.

    It's gotten to the point in duels where your opponent will dot you, you go full offensive, but if your class doesn't have offensive healing going, you'll just melt to pressure. How is that fair in any way? You literally get punished for attacking your opponent when he is spamming heals. What are the reprecussions in open world PvP, if it's already ridiculous pressure out of thin air?

    It's not like a DOT build is only going to use burst and nothing else. It's going to use the same offensive burst as it would in a live build, except its pressure will skyrocket by stacking dots. If your class has no answer to DOTs (cloak, purge, etc.), you simply will find solo hellish. Not to mention if you're getting outnumbered, more dots will be stacked by multiple people. Not to mention some classes (magDK cough) simply don't have an answer to DoT stacking.

    And then you might wonder: "What about the self-healing buffs?" The thing is, the healing buffs aren't the answer. You're still going to take obscene damage in an outnumbered scenario, and dots will keep your HoT healing down. Defile becomes inflated in power (from stam blastbones, snipe, soul harvest, etc.) because it's reducing more healing Plus how is pigeon-holing Magicka into running resto back-bar good design? And if you're not running dots, everyone will outheal your damage easily. So you've basically forced people to run one or two DoTs on every build to stand a chance against the new healing changes.

    As a final example, this is my tooltip on fetcher next patch (magden).

    eso64_2019-07-13_21-50-43.png

    For the record it's about 19K-20K on live with the same build. I'm running an open world setup with necro/lich with decent sustain.

    You cannot allow this to hit live.

    I mean what is the point of talking about it. Majority of the game loves dots. ZoS designs to the majority.

    Point taken. Where the streamers complain about boring rotations, average players have a much slower, easier rotation because dots have a 10 second cool down basically. Clipping your dot is not as punishing to your dps as messing up an instant damage weave rotation, and the dots continue to tick while they run around avoiding red.

    wat

    rotations are much more difficult to reach the ceiling on pts than on live. magcro is ezpz on live and a pain in the ass on pts because of the dots. refreshing dots on cd isn't as easy as you suggest it is, otherwise we'd see a lot of 93-94k necro parses on pts but i've only seen mine and like one other.

    Average players who can barely animation cancel, who would never come close to 93K, will have an easier time doing more dps than they do today. They still won't be 93K. Besides haven't stam dps been refreshing dots on cool down for a while now....vma dw, st dot, caltrops, endless..... It is in parse video after parse video for stam dps.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jeezye wrote: »
    That efficient purge will be god damn stronk again. Just saying.

    Nope, efficient purge and cleanse were both nerfed. They no longer reduce the duration of all negative effects.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
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