You shouldn't talk about vigor without talking about regeneration. Look at both sides...

  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    We shouldnt be looking at vigor vs regeneration at all. Vigor is literally enabling to play stamina in PVP at all, while Regeneration is just one of many healing/absorption skills magicka has.
    PC | EU | AD
  • Lyar09
    Lyar09
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    Derra wrote: »
    Lyar09 wrote: »
    Purify is a joke of a heal even for Magicka users.

    You haven’t been on pts have you?
    If you have I know for sure you haven’t touched Templar. It’s the highest sustained healing for Templar on pts.

    Wrong. The healing bubble is even with the nerf. Costs less and can have a 100% uptime.

    Look I’m not getting into a pissing contest with Magicka users. I’ve played pretty much every class/variant in the game at this point. Vigor is strong because it allows you to go offensive while getting healed. But stamina literally has no other heals or in class support for this topic. Meanwhile, literally every Magicka class has an in class burst heal that scales with their primary resource. So the narrative of boo hoo I have to run a resto staff now is ignorant
    DC | StamSorc | Ohh Lyar

    twitch.tv/lyarpvp
    youtube.com/lyaryt
  • No_Division
    No_Division
    ✭✭✭
    Lyar09 wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Lyar09 wrote: »
    Purify is a joke of a heal even for Magicka users.

    You haven’t been on pts have you?
    If you have I know for sure you haven’t touched Templar. It’s the highest sustained healing for Templar on pts.

    Wrong. The healing bubble is even with the nerf. Costs less and can have a 100% uptime.

    Look I’m not getting into a pissing contest with Magicka users. I’ve played pretty much every class/variant in the game at this point. Vigor is strong because it allows you to go offensive while getting healed. But stamina literally has no other heals or in class support for this topic. Meanwhile, literally every Magicka class has an in class burst heal that scales with their primary resource. So the narrative of boo hoo I have to run a resto staff now is ignorant

    chiming in, the heal off living dark has limitations now:
    - doesnt proc off ANY direct dmg proc sets.
    - single target dots do not proc the heal since the initial dot tick is considered direct dmg but apparently ignoring the proc condition.
    - havent tested, but UC morph doesnt proc anything on cc imune targets. Which means LD wont proc heals if targets are root immune?

    And these effects require someone to attack. You can ignore procs/effect by rebuffing requiring templars to recast 3400 mag everytime.
  • LiquidPony
    LiquidPony
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    Lyar09 wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Lyar09 wrote: »
    Purify is a joke of a heal even for Magicka users.

    You haven’t been on pts have you?
    If you have I know for sure you haven’t touched Templar. It’s the highest sustained healing for Templar on pts.

    Wrong. The healing bubble is even with the nerf. Costs less and can have a 100% uptime.

    Look I’m not getting into a pissing contest with Magicka users. I’ve played pretty much every class/variant in the game at this point. Vigor is strong because it allows you to go offensive while getting healed. But stamina literally has no other heals or in class support for this topic. Meanwhile, literally every Magicka class has an in class burst heal that scales with their primary resource. So the narrative of boo hoo I have to run a resto staff now is ignorant

    That's the thing. Every class has a variety of magicka-scaling heals in their class trees.

    Aside from Wardens, stam builds don't have that.

    Additionally, in general skill trees, there's Energy Orbs, Structured Entropy, and Symbiosis.

    Of course stamina toons now have Ring of Preservation but they lost the HoT from Rally too.

    Personally I think people are dramatically oversimplifying the whole thing when they talk about Vigor. For most stam builds, it is the only heal they can reliably use and they don't really have the option to effectively use a Resto even if they wanted to.

    Personally, on my magicka toons that I use for PvP, I like having the option of going Resto backbar. It gives me an easy way to proc Major Mending, and I like having both Combat Prayer and Healing Ward (especially combined with the BRP resto).
    Edited by LiquidPony on August 1, 2019 7:20PM
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    LiquidPony wrote: »
    Lyar09 wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Lyar09 wrote: »
    Purify is a joke of a heal even for Magicka users.

    You haven’t been on pts have you?
    If you have I know for sure you haven’t touched Templar. It’s the highest sustained healing for Templar on pts.

    Wrong. The healing bubble is even with the nerf. Costs less and can have a 100% uptime.

    Look I’m not getting into a pissing contest with Magicka users. I’ve played pretty much every class/variant in the game at this point. Vigor is strong because it allows you to go offensive while getting healed. But stamina literally has no other heals or in class support for this topic. Meanwhile, literally every Magicka class has an in class burst heal that scales with their primary resource. So the narrative of boo hoo I have to run a resto staff now is ignorant

    That's the thing. Every class has a variety of magicka-scaling heals in their class trees.

    Aside from Wardens, stam builds don't have that.

    Additionally, in general skill trees, there's Energy Orbs, Structured Entropy, and Symbiosis.

    Of course stamina toons now have Ring of Preservation but they lost the HoT from Rally too.

    Personally I think people are dramatically oversimplifying the whole thing when they talk about Vigor. For most stam builds, it is the only heal they can reliably use and they don't really have the option to effectively use a Resto even if they wanted to.

    Personally, on my magicka toons that I use for PvP, I like having the option of going Resto backbar. It gives me an easy way to proc Major Mending, and I like having both Combat Prayer and Healing Ward (especially combined with the BRP resto).

    Correct.
    For All Those Who Don’t Understand What Real Balancing is, or What The Word Buff Means in Video Games:
    Please just stop (with the nerfomancing). We are all sick of people like you, no offense. Just play the game w/o gear or armor. You are going to die and scream anyway.

    Otherwise I don’t mind helping you fix your build for either PvE or PvP. Just hit me up w/ a PM.
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    LiquidPony wrote: »
    Lyar09 wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Lyar09 wrote: »
    Purify is a joke of a heal even for Magicka users.

    You haven’t been on pts have you?
    If you have I know for sure you haven’t touched Templar. It’s the highest sustained healing for Templar on pts.

    Wrong. The healing bubble is even with the nerf. Costs less and can have a 100% uptime.

    Look I’m not getting into a pissing contest with Magicka users. I’ve played pretty much every class/variant in the game at this point. Vigor is strong because it allows you to go offensive while getting healed. But stamina literally has no other heals or in class support for this topic. Meanwhile, literally every Magicka class has an in class burst heal that scales with their primary resource. So the narrative of boo hoo I have to run a resto staff now is ignorant

    That's the thing. Every class has a variety of magicka-scaling heals in their class trees.

    Aside from Wardens, stam builds don't have that.

    Additionally, in general skill trees, there's Energy Orbs, Structured Entropy, and Symbiosis.

    Of course stamina toons now have Ring of Preservation but they lost the HoT from Rally too.

    Personally I think people are dramatically oversimplifying the whole thing when they talk about Vigor. For most stam builds, it is the only heal they can reliably use and they don't really have the option to effectively use a Resto even if they wanted to.

    Personally, on my magicka toons that I use for PvP, I like having the option of going Resto backbar. It gives me an easy way to proc Major Mending, and I like having both Combat Prayer and Healing Ward (especially combined with the BRP resto).

    Correct.

    I totally agree.
    For All Those Who Don’t Understand What Real Balancing is, or What The Word Buff Means in Video Games:
    Please just stop (with the nerfomancing). We are all sick of people like you, no offense. Just play the game w/o gear or armor. You are going to die and scream anyway.

    Otherwise I don’t mind helping you fix your build for either PvE or PvP. Just hit me up w/ a PM.
  • BattleAxe
    BattleAxe
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    One aspect everyone doesn’t look at is vigor requires pvp play to access yet resto can be gotten immediately
  • danara
    danara
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    BattleAxe wrote: »
    One aspect everyone doesn’t look at is vigor requires pvp play to access yet resto can be gotten immediately

    Dude come on... Now you are saying that regeneration > viguor because you dont have it lvl 10? Really ?

    The thing is to compare max skilled/geared character, what you said is just completely useless...

    Even if i want to see viguor nerf because i am a pve healer and it make me feels im completely useless because it is the Best in game heal and there is no point to run healer in trial now... I can understand both side (magicka/stamina) and both perspective (pve/pvp), they are all highligth bad game designs


    But... this argument... is the most pointless/stupid/childlish/putherewhateveryouwant i saw...
    Edited by danara on August 2, 2019 10:37AM
  • Tyrion87
    Tyrion87
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    BattleAxe wrote: »
    One aspect everyone doesn’t look at is vigor requires pvp play to access yet resto can be gotten immediately

    Next patch it will be possible to buy lvl 10 alliance war skill line, while resto staff you gonna level up to 50 by yourself!

    Wow people still comparing vigor to skills that require you to wield a resto staff (BRP one to make the most of it) and are unreliable cause with many players around you are lucky if you get that healing ward or rapid regen next patch. You stam people are so biased... Give magicka users self-cast morphs of rapid regen and/or healing ward or make vigor to apply only to the lowest hp ally (cause according to some ppl here unreliability is not a problem). Then we can talk about numbers...
  • danara
    danara
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    Well, let me summarize here what i Understood, (for the context, i am a pve healer)

    Stamina pvp players are complaining because they know that viguor is going to be nerf, But they dont want to be nerf because that's the ONLY heal they have access (and this is a problem, you cant seriously ask to a pvp dps to slot Circle of protection, on a healer yes, not a dps). SO they are attacking the fact that magicka have access to PLENTY OF HEALING SPELLS. And ask a nerf for mutagen/rr.

    Magicka pvp player are complaining because the healing output from viguor is too high (which is True, if you deny it you are just blind) but IT IS THE ONLY ONE THEY HAVE. So magicka say "we have to slot resto staff"... The thing that staminas dont understand is that, most of the healing spell have a few chance to target you. And the one that are targeting you are a %, so 33% on a magicka with 30k hp (which is not so bad) with Battle spirit is : 4950 healing, FOR A SPELL THAT HEAL ONCE (it is not a HOT like Viguor) AND COST TWICE MORE THAN VIGUOR. So clearly here there is a problem (except in BG or in duel situation) most of the time the heals are not aiming you, or are not worth it...

    So now lets talk about pve, i dont think stamina are complaining about this spell, most of them dont use it... But lets talk about the pve healer (i am here !) that are affected by this changes.

    We are complaining because overall, change are not that bad pvp wise, but they are terrible pve wise, right Now there are some fight designed around some spells like Healing Springs, and they just destroy it (which is legit, too much heal potency in pve, unkillable zerg in pvp), but they nerf it too much, if you do the calculation you got a 77% nerf of the burst heal potency.
    What we are complaining also is that, right Now, dps can heal the all group, better than REAL HEALER CAN. What is the point to run healer now ?
    Echoing viguor stack too much... The new power surge change ? It could be Wonder full, why does it proc on damage ? It so stupid, it allows dd to heal almost the same à mount of their healer...

    So as a conclusion, i think that all of this is the result of really bad design...

    Nerf viguor but give stamina more option lock behind différent weapon ! Like if you go with 2 hand you have a Nice burst heal but less damage, if you go dual wield you have less heal but more damage (this is just a draw, not a serious proposition)

    Nerf some magicka spell but give to People the option to get at 100% a self heal !

    AND PLEASE ZOS, MAKE PVE HEALER RELEVANT AGAIN !
  • SassiestAssassin
    SassiestAssassin
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    There was a post floating around about swapping the functions of the two, which I feel like might satisfy everyone?

    Essentially: mutagen would affect 6 people at once (reliable magicka heal, remove RNG from healing, actually useful from trial groups)

    Vigor morph is still a big self heal, but also becomes an extra emergency heal for the lowest teammate (keeps the needed stam self-heal)

    But yes, stamina needs more self-heals without taking away from PvE magicka support roles.
    *slams a gallon of Respecting Support Roles juice on the table* Take a sip, babes.
  • Urusovite
    Urusovite
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    And now overall stamina healing is less on pts than live. Congratulations magic players, you won! Stamina is only able to go on offense during vigor which is now shorter and add in ultimate cast times too and you can kiss goodbye to any sort of really effective medium builds. We’re now back in a tank L2 meta or DDs just using passive damage to kill other players. God this combat has been dumbed down. Magic still has healing potential through the roof and many options:

    - Healing ward
    - Regeneration
    - Resto ult
    - Class heals

    Next time leave the talking to the big boys who have actually played the game and are tired if its regression patch after patch.
    PS4 NA
    Medium Stam Dk since launch
    Technologically incompetent I'm told

    Solo play is the only way
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
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    You can't compare vigor and regen apples to apples this is why

    Vigor can be used on ANY weapon
    Regen staff can be used with ONE weapon

    If you make a sacrifice, you should get something in return.
    Raise your arguments, not your insults.
    Look past your own perspective, and see the world as a whole.

    Jodynn/Jo_oJ PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
  • No_Division
    No_Division
    ✭✭✭
    Urusovite wrote: »
    And now overall stamina healing is less on pts than live. Congratulations magic players, you won! Stamina is only able to go on offense during vigor which is now shorter and add in ultimate cast times too and you can kiss goodbye to any sort of really effective medium builds. We’re now back in a tank L2 meta or DDs just using passive damage to kill other players. God this combat has been dumbed down. Magic still has healing potential through the roof and many options:

    - Healing ward
    - Regeneration
    - Resto ult
    - Class heals

    Next time leave the talking to the big boys who have actually played the game and are tired if its regression patch after patch.

    we also can't move as well, can't sustain block, can't sustain alot of CC breaks and can't sustain dodge roll for long periods or time. That is something that needs to be considered plus the overall cost of mag based abilities.

    Otherwise I agree, rapid regen is overperforming and defile source access is down.
  • p00tx
    p00tx
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    Please stop trying to change this entire game to suit small scale PvP. You guys have already ruined PvE healing for the majority of players. Leave it alone.
    Xbox NA

    "She"...I am female, contrary to what the gamer tag or my nasty attitude might suggest.

  • Urusovite
    Urusovite
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    You can't compare vigor and regen apples to apples this is why

    Vigor can be used on ANY weapon
    Regen staff can be used with ONE weapon

    If you make a sacrifice, you should get something in return.

    Stamina is forced into 2h. Stam sorc and stam dk are forced into weapon skill lines too. Wheres the reward for the sacrifice? That argument is a poor argument. Everyone is homogenized, not just magic. Slotting a resto isn't a gimp either and is hardly a big deal in a 5 skill game where you can just put your utility skills on the bar.
    PS4 NA
    Medium Stam Dk since launch
    Technologically incompetent I'm told

    Solo play is the only way
  • Urusovite
    Urusovite
    ✭✭✭
    p00tx wrote: »
    Please stop trying to change this entire game to suit small scale PvP. You guys have already ruined PvE healing for the majority of players. Leave it alone.

    Nobody asked for a buff to vigor. Read my initial post or do you lack the ability to understand what I have written? Stamina healing was nerfed because of the loss of the HoT on rally on top of vigor now being nerfed while magic got all the buffs in the world to both their DoT potential and HoTs. Thats absurd. There is now nothing a stamina player can do once he/she gets 4 or 5 dot debuffs on them. Tell me that is not an issue.

    Furthermore, PvE players I can blame for the power creep on this game. PvE is brainless gameplay for people who only enjoy memorizing basic patterns and don't care for a real challenge, not to mention how easy a large majority of the content is already. Come play against enemies which can adapt and punish you for making a mistake. Healers are always needed in Cyrodiil ball groups who are up against zergs.
    PS4 NA
    Medium Stam Dk since launch
    Technologically incompetent I'm told

    Solo play is the only way
  • p00tx
    p00tx
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    Urusovite wrote: »
    p00tx wrote: »
    Please stop trying to change this entire game to suit small scale PvP. You guys have already ruined PvE healing for the majority of players. Leave it alone.

    Nobody asked for a buff to vigor. Read my initial post or do you lack the ability to understand what I have written? Stamina healing was nerfed because of the loss of the HoT on rally on top of vigor now being nerfed while magic got all the buffs in the world to both their DoT potential and HoTs. Thats absurd. There is now nothing a stamina player can do once he/she gets 4 or 5 dot debuffs on them. Tell me that is not an issue.

    Furthermore, PvE players I can blame for the power creep on this game. PvE is brainless gameplay for people who only enjoy memorizing basic patterns and don't care for a real challenge, not to mention how easy a large majority of the content is already. Come play against enemies which can adapt and punish you for making a mistake. Healers are always needed in Cyrodiil ball groups who are up against zergs.

    I'm a PvPer (3 years running) and I run with a small group :D I also play "brainless" PvE" (for the last 6 months), because I'm not just a one trick pony who can't play the other side of the game. Maybe try actually playing in the of the hardmode PvE content before claiming it's braindead. I guarantee you'd be roleplaying a floormat for 90% of the "easy, braindead" run.
    Xbox NA

    "She"...I am female, contrary to what the gamer tag or my nasty attitude might suggest.

  • killingspreeb16_ESO
    killingspreeb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    LiquidPony wrote: »
    Lyar09 wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Lyar09 wrote: »
    Purify is a joke of a heal even for Magicka users.

    You haven’t been on pts have you?
    If you have I know for sure you haven’t touched Templar. It’s the highest sustained healing for Templar on pts.

    Wrong. The healing bubble is even with the nerf. Costs less and can have a 100% uptime.

    Look I’m not getting into a pissing contest with Magicka users. I’ve played pretty much every class/variant in the game at this point. Vigor is strong because it allows you to go offensive while getting healed. But stamina literally has no other heals or in class support for this topic. Meanwhile, literally every Magicka class has an in class burst heal that scales with their primary resource. So the narrative of boo hoo I have to run a resto staff now is ignorant

    That's the thing. Every class has a variety of magicka-scaling heals in their class trees.

    Aside from Wardens, stam builds don't have that.

    Additionally, in general skill trees, there's Energy Orbs, Structured Entropy, and Symbiosis.

    Of course stamina toons now have Ring of Preservation but they lost the HoT from Rally too.

    Personally I think people are dramatically oversimplifying the whole thing when they talk about Vigor. For most stam builds, it is the only heal they can reliably use and they don't really have the option to effectively use a Resto even if they wanted to.

    Personally, on my magicka toons that I use for PvP, I like having the option of going Resto backbar. It gives me an easy way to proc Major Mending, and I like having both Combat Prayer and Healing Ward (especially combined with the BRP resto).

    Most people that play both(stamina/magika)think resto staff is good in pvp,is just magika only player that think resto staff is weak.

    They needed to push their propaganda on how vigor was so good compared to rapid regen when it's not and ofc ignore all the difference between class skill that are not avaible to stamina or the fact that stamina is also forced in one weapon type.

    Gonna be fun play stamina in bg above trash mmr.
  • Urusovite
    Urusovite
    ✭✭✭
    p00tx wrote: »
    Urusovite wrote: »
    p00tx wrote: »
    Please stop trying to change this entire game to suit small scale PvP. You guys have already ruined PvE healing for the majority of players. Leave it alone.

    Nobody asked for a buff to vigor. Read my initial post or do you lack the ability to understand what I have written? Stamina healing was nerfed because of the loss of the HoT on rally on top of vigor now being nerfed while magic got all the buffs in the world to both their DoT potential and HoTs. Thats absurd. There is now nothing a stamina player can do once he/she gets 4 or 5 dot debuffs on them. Tell me that is not an issue.

    Furthermore, PvE players I can blame for the power creep on this game. PvE is brainless gameplay for people who only enjoy memorizing basic patterns and don't care for a real challenge, not to mention how easy a large majority of the content is already. Come play against enemies which can adapt and punish you for making a mistake. Healers are always needed in Cyrodiil ball groups who are up against zergs.

    I'm a PvPer (3 years running) and I run with a small group :D I also play "brainless" PvE" (for the last 6 months), because I'm not just a one trick pony who can't play the other side of the game. Maybe try actually playing in the of the hardmode PvE content before claiming it's braindead. I guarantee you'd be roleplaying a floormat for 90% of the "easy, braindead" run.

    I did play the PvE side of things on hardmode for a long time until my guild died of boredom. The only hard content there is is the new content and even then its just learning mechanics and memorizing patterns and positioning. Once you do that it too gets easy. So I wouldn't consider myself a one trick pony either.
    PS4 NA
    Medium Stam Dk since launch
    Technologically incompetent I'm told

    Solo play is the only way
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Urusovite wrote: »
    You can't compare vigor and regen apples to apples this is why

    Vigor can be used on ANY weapon
    Regen staff can be used with ONE weapon

    If you make a sacrifice, you should get something in return.

    Stamina is forced into 2h. Stam sorc and stam dk are forced into weapon skill lines too. Wheres the reward for the sacrifice? That argument is a poor argument. Everyone is homogenized, not just magic. Slotting a resto isn't a gimp either and is hardly a big deal in a 5 skill game where you can just put your utility skills on the bar.

    I use SnB & DW on stamDK and do amazing, you aren't forced into 2H, you can run three weapons, or even resto if you want to be corny, but the point is, you can use any of those, but regen can use one, resto staff, it is a valid argument and an important clarification that shouldn't be overlooked.

    Also I don't run resto on magDK, SnB and destro.
    Urusovite wrote: »
    p00tx wrote: »
    Urusovite wrote: »
    p00tx wrote: »
    Please stop trying to change this entire game to suit small scale PvP. You guys have already ruined PvE healing for the majority of players. Leave it alone.

    Nobody asked for a buff to vigor. Read my initial post or do you lack the ability to understand what I have written? Stamina healing was nerfed because of the loss of the HoT on rally on top of vigor now being nerfed while magic got all the buffs in the world to both their DoT potential and HoTs. Thats absurd. There is now nothing a stamina player can do once he/she gets 4 or 5 dot debuffs on them. Tell me that is not an issue.

    Furthermore, PvE players I can blame for the power creep on this game. PvE is brainless gameplay for people who only enjoy memorizing basic patterns and don't care for a real challenge, not to mention how easy a large majority of the content is already. Come play against enemies which can adapt and punish you for making a mistake. Healers are always needed in Cyrodiil ball groups who are up against zergs.

    I'm a PvPer (3 years running) and I run with a small group :D I also play "brainless" PvE" (for the last 6 months), because I'm not just a one trick pony who can't play the other side of the game. Maybe try actually playing in the of the hardmode PvE content before claiming it's braindead. I guarantee you'd be roleplaying a floormat for 90% of the "easy, braindead" run.

    I did play the PvE side of things on hardmode for a long time until my guild died of boredom. The only hard content there is is the new content and even then its just learning mechanics and memorizing patterns and positioning. Once you do that it too gets easy. So I wouldn't consider myself a one trick pony either.

    PvE can be interesting, you just have to push for something higher than just clearing, how much can you parse? How high can you get? What changes what, what maths, if that's not your thing fine, but don't say it's boring just because you don't understand it or enjoy it, theorycrafting can be amazing and fun.

    Raise your arguments, not your insults.
    Look past your own perspective, and see the world as a whole.

    Jodynn/Jo_oJ PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
  • Urusovite
    Urusovite
    ✭✭✭
    Urusovite wrote: »
    You can't compare vigor and regen apples to apples this is why

    Vigor can be used on ANY weapon
    Regen staff can be used with ONE weapon

    If you make a sacrifice, you should get something in return.

    Stamina is forced into 2h. Stam sorc and stam dk are forced into weapon skill lines too. Wheres the reward for the sacrifice? That argument is a poor argument. Everyone is homogenized, not just magic. Slotting a resto isn't a gimp either and is hardly a big deal in a 5 skill game where you can just put your utility skills on the bar.

    I use SnB & DW on stamDK and do amazing, you aren't forced into 2H, you can run three weapons, or even resto if you want to be corny, but the point is, you can use any of those, but regen can use one, resto staff, it is a valid argument and an important clarification that shouldn't be overlooked.

    Also I don't run resto on magDK, SnB and destro.
    Urusovite wrote: »
    p00tx wrote: »
    Urusovite wrote: »
    p00tx wrote: »
    Please stop trying to change this entire game to suit small scale PvP. You guys have already ruined PvE healing for the majority of players. Leave it alone.

    Nobody asked for a buff to vigor. Read my initial post or do you lack the ability to understand what I have written? Stamina healing was nerfed because of the loss of the HoT on rally on top of vigor now being nerfed while magic got all the buffs in the world to both their DoT potential and HoTs. Thats absurd. There is now nothing a stamina player can do once he/she gets 4 or 5 dot debuffs on them. Tell me that is not an issue.

    Furthermore, PvE players I can blame for the power creep on this game. PvE is brainless gameplay for people who only enjoy memorizing basic patterns and don't care for a real challenge, not to mention how easy a large majority of the content is already. Come play against enemies which can adapt and punish you for making a mistake. Healers are always needed in Cyrodiil ball groups who are up against zergs.

    I'm a PvPer (3 years running) and I run with a small group :D I also play "brainless" PvE" (for the last 6 months), because I'm not just a one trick pony who can't play the other side of the game. Maybe try actually playing in the of the hardmode PvE content before claiming it's braindead. I guarantee you'd be roleplaying a floormat for 90% of the "easy, braindead" run.

    I did play the PvE side of things on hardmode for a long time until my guild died of boredom. The only hard content there is is the new content and even then its just learning mechanics and memorizing patterns and positioning. Once you do that it too gets easy. So I wouldn't consider myself a one trick pony either.

    PvE can be interesting, you just have to push for something higher than just clearing, how much can you parse? How high can you get? What changes what, what maths, if that's not your thing fine, but don't say it's boring just because you don't understand it or enjoy it, theorycrafting can be amazing and fun.

    Your Dk doesn't perform at the same level on 2h SnB on live or 2h and DW I guarantee it. There is a reason the META is 2h and SnB. So nice try with the diversity trick but it doesn't work unless you can compete with the best on your platform which you most certainly cannot I'm almost 99% sure but I'll go with 98.8888%.

    Again, I said my guild died of boredom, not that the content was boring. We did progressions towards completion on veteran, then we'd progress HM, then we'd attempt score runs. The dps parses were much lower at the time. We'd dps test in Spindleclutch or Wayrest Slimecraw boss and then the dummies were released and we'd use them.
    PS4 NA
    Medium Stam Dk since launch
    Technologically incompetent I'm told

    Solo play is the only way
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Urusovite wrote: »
    Urusovite wrote: »
    You can't compare vigor and regen apples to apples this is why

    Vigor can be used on ANY weapon
    Regen staff can be used with ONE weapon

    If you make a sacrifice, you should get something in return.

    Stamina is forced into 2h. Stam sorc and stam dk are forced into weapon skill lines too. Wheres the reward for the sacrifice? That argument is a poor argument. Everyone is homogenized, not just magic. Slotting a resto isn't a gimp either and is hardly a big deal in a 5 skill game where you can just put your utility skills on the bar.

    I use SnB & DW on stamDK and do amazing, you aren't forced into 2H, you can run three weapons, or even resto if you want to be corny, but the point is, you can use any of those, but regen can use one, resto staff, it is a valid argument and an important clarification that shouldn't be overlooked.

    Also I don't run resto on magDK, SnB and destro.
    Urusovite wrote: »
    p00tx wrote: »
    Urusovite wrote: »
    p00tx wrote: »
    Please stop trying to change this entire game to suit small scale PvP. You guys have already ruined PvE healing for the majority of players. Leave it alone.

    Nobody asked for a buff to vigor. Read my initial post or do you lack the ability to understand what I have written? Stamina healing was nerfed because of the loss of the HoT on rally on top of vigor now being nerfed while magic got all the buffs in the world to both their DoT potential and HoTs. Thats absurd. There is now nothing a stamina player can do once he/she gets 4 or 5 dot debuffs on them. Tell me that is not an issue.

    Furthermore, PvE players I can blame for the power creep on this game. PvE is brainless gameplay for people who only enjoy memorizing basic patterns and don't care for a real challenge, not to mention how easy a large majority of the content is already. Come play against enemies which can adapt and punish you for making a mistake. Healers are always needed in Cyrodiil ball groups who are up against zergs.

    I'm a PvPer (3 years running) and I run with a small group :D I also play "brainless" PvE" (for the last 6 months), because I'm not just a one trick pony who can't play the other side of the game. Maybe try actually playing in the of the hardmode PvE content before claiming it's braindead. I guarantee you'd be roleplaying a floormat for 90% of the "easy, braindead" run.

    I did play the PvE side of things on hardmode for a long time until my guild died of boredom. The only hard content there is is the new content and even then its just learning mechanics and memorizing patterns and positioning. Once you do that it too gets easy. So I wouldn't consider myself a one trick pony either.

    PvE can be interesting, you just have to push for something higher than just clearing, how much can you parse? How high can you get? What changes what, what maths, if that's not your thing fine, but don't say it's boring just because you don't understand it or enjoy it, theorycrafting can be amazing and fun.

    Your Dk doesn't perform at the same level on 2h SnB on live or 2h and DW I guarantee it. There is a reason the META is 2h and SnB. So nice try with the diversity trick but it doesn't work unless you can compete with the best on your platform which you most certainly cannot I'm almost 99% sure but I'll go with 98.8888%.

    Again, I said my guild died of boredom, not that the content was boring. We did progressions towards completion on veteran, then we'd progress HM, then we'd attempt score runs. The dps parses were much lower at the time. We'd dps test in Spindleclutch or Wayrest Slimecraw boss and then the dummies were released and we'd use them.

    I'd duel you but you are on PS4, PvP is a living subject, even if there is a meta it's fluid, PvE less so.

    Secondly, attacking a skill because you don't have heals isn't really a wise approach, stam need love, that's true they don't have shields or burst heals, and now vigor is only 4 seconds and that's terrible, true; but you can't compare the two side by side, that's just a simple fact.

    That argument is invalid and ignorant; however, stam does need more tools, focus on that, not comparing two skills.

    For PvE things change, you can do more and reach for more, but I understand your viewpoint, but it isn't a mantra.
    Raise your arguments, not your insults.
    Look past your own perspective, and see the world as a whole.

    Jodynn/Jo_oJ PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
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