You shouldn't talk about vigor without talking about regeneration. Look at both sides...

Urusovite
Urusovite
✭✭✭
Magic heals are still going to be superior if you run a BRP resto and pop healing ward and regeneration. Even without BRP resto, the heals are still very versatile because there are also shields (no I'm not suggesting a nerf to shields). Medium doesn't get that and dodgeroll is going to be pretty weak with the incoming DoT builds and the amount of passive pressure being applied to a single-target. Vigor is definitely over-tuned, but so is everything else. Healing ward was nerfed, but it is far from useless. If you want to talk about heals being too strong then you need to talk about all heals. While I am not in favor of the absurd heals personally as a mostly solo/small-scale player, the DoT damage needs to be adjusted/reworked at the same time.
Edited by Urusovite on July 31, 2019 11:30PM
PS4 NA
Medium Stam Dk since launch
Technologically incompetent I'm told

Solo play is the only way
  • Ranger209
    Ranger209
    ✭✭✭✭
    The real boon to resto heals is if you are 1 v X and no one is around that can swipe your heals, otherwise as soon as you get in a group or zerg situation good luck.
  • Urusovite
    Urusovite
    ✭✭✭
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    They are both comparative numbers wise, but vigor is a guaranteed heal where as regen and healing ward are not. If there are other people around then you may have to spam it 2-3 times just to get the heal.

    I wouldn't mind if they lowered the regen heal, if there was a morph that gave a guaranteed heal like vigor does. Magic shouldn't have to use rng to get a reliable heal.

    If you’re grouped, heals will almost certainly be thrown your way as well. It is silly rng, but its still powerful. Group members not dying is still beneficial for you and annoying for the opponent(s).
    PS4 NA
    Medium Stam Dk since launch
    Technologically incompetent I'm told

    Solo play is the only way
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lyar09 wrote: »
    kaizen914 wrote: »
    Backbarring resto and running multiple healing skills vs slotting one skill that heals you and all nearby allies.
    Name a stamina class heal other than warden spores.... I’ll wait on that one

    Leeching strikes from nb.
    Critical surge (stamsorcs use this morph) and dark deal (stam morph which costs mag and restores stam) from sorc
    Cleansing ritual and morphs from templar (scales from max resources)
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lyar09 wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    Lyar09 wrote: »
    kaizen914 wrote: »
    Backbarring resto and running multiple healing skills vs slotting one skill that heals you and all nearby allies.
    Name a stamina class heal other than warden spores.... I’ll wait on that one

    Leeching strikes from nb.
    Critical surge (stamsorcs use this morph) and dark deal (stam morph which costs mag and restores stam) from sorc
    Cleansing ritual and morphs from templar (scales from max resources)

    Leeching is a utility skill that is used for resource return and just so happens to have a heal that isn’t reliable. You literally proved my point by not pointing out STAMINA class heals. Doesn’t matter whether they’re usable for stam. They cost Magicka. So this whole argument of “well I have to use a resto staff” is ignorant. Stamina users are forced to running rally or vigor in order to actively heal. Meanwhile Magicka users have huge in class burst heals.

    Btw, crit surge and dark deal scale off blessed and elfborn. Purify is a joke of a heal even for Magicka users.

    All heals scale off of blessed and the healing and dmg on ritual are getting buffed next patch. I believe that Crit surge and dd will now scale off of precise strikes next patch too if you are specced for stam.

    As long as you are hitting your lights and heavies you are still getting decent heals from leeching and it was mentioned as you mentioned siphoning strikes.

    btw I am not for any vigor nerfs at all
    Edited by JobooAGS on August 1, 2019 1:16AM
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Urusovite wrote: »
    kaizen914 wrote: »
    Backbarring resto and running multiple healing skills vs slotting one skill that heals you and all nearby allies.

    Only one morph of vigor does that and its heals/sec is halved. Sorcs seem to be fine on live running resto/destro, magblades too, magdens as well, and even mag dks. Looks like you're pigeon-holed into resto like stam is with 2h. Its not a good thing, but it is the way it is and doesn't call for a nerf ONLY to stam.

    Yeah magicka characters are "fine" running Destro/Resto and being stuck with no build creativity.
  • Urusovite
    Urusovite
    ✭✭✭
    Insco851 wrote: »
    Urusovite wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    They are both comparative numbers wise, but vigor is a guaranteed heal where as regen and healing ward are not. If there are other people around then you may have to spam it 2-3 times just to get the heal.

    I wouldn't mind if they lowered the regen heal, if there was a morph that gave a guaranteed heal like vigor does. Magic shouldn't have to use rng to get a reliable heal.

    If you’re grouped, heals will almost certainly be thrown your way as well. It is silly rng, but its still powerful. Group members not dying is still beneficial for you and annoying for the opponent(s).

    Cmon man that’s not a good defense for that.

    They are not and will not be equal no matter the case. I’d prefer they were. I’d rather a single target 5 sec heal and a 10 sec AOE heal just like vigor over the current Mutagen/RR setups.

    Doubtful that happens, but make at least one of the morphs a guaranteed self heal and I’ll have no complaints about them balancing both it and vigor together.

    Yeah, you're right, but on paper the healing potential for the 2 play-styles is about equal. Don't forget resto ult either which heals you and allies and is pretty cheap. There is a lot of survivability available to magic. My whole point is to recognize that both are powerful. Magic is generally ranged except in the case of mag dk and some magplars who both have access to even more heals. Thats all I'm trying convey.
    PS4 NA
    Medium Stam Dk since launch
    Technologically incompetent I'm told

    Solo play is the only way
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    kaizen914 wrote: »
    Backbarring resto and running multiple healing skills vs slotting one skill that heals you and all nearby allies.

    Both magicka and stamina classes have to deal with the same limited bar space in different ways but it amounts to the same thing, dont make yourself sound like a noob. Ive played all classes in PvP aside from magicka warden and necros and they all have issues. People like to say stamina is so much better but ill tell you from experience that stamina templar doesnt stand a chance against a magicka dk 1v1 and Ive played on both sides. Unless you have personally played a class from both sides or multiple specs, and i mean really played not just fired off a few skills from a big group, you actually have no idea what youre talking about. You could run any spec and still get demolished because youre not that good. But you just like to spit at stamina because youre probably a magicka player and have no alternate views.
  • Urusovite
    Urusovite
    ✭✭✭
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Urusovite wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    They are both comparative numbers wise, but vigor is a guaranteed heal where as regen and healing ward are not. If there are other people around then you may have to spam it 2-3 times just to get the heal.

    I wouldn't mind if they lowered the regen heal, if there was a morph that gave a guaranteed heal like vigor does. Magic shouldn't have to use rng to get a reliable heal.

    If you’re grouped, heals will almost certainly be thrown your way as well. It is silly rng, but its still powerful. Group members not dying is still beneficial for you and annoying for the opponent(s).
    I think you meant to say, "If you're grouped *in a dedicated premade*, heals will almost certainly be thrown your way as well." There are innumerable instances where I've had my magicka character(s) come under heavy attack while a Stam-bro on my team stood right next to me without hitting Vigor or any CC to try and give me breathing room. But if he gets himself in front of me, the heals that I desperately need on myself might go to him instead, even if he's mostly in good shape and not actively taking heat. And in the case of Healing Ward at least, it might put several of them in a row on him.

    In a duo, to my experience, healing ward has always prioritized the lowest health ally. I will concede and say my argument was weak. At the same time though it reads like people are getting punished for grouping and not coordinating. I don't necessarily see an issue with that.
    PS4 NA
    Medium Stam Dk since launch
    Technologically incompetent I'm told

    Solo play is the only way
  • Vortigaunt
    Vortigaunt
    ✭✭✭
    Lyar09 wrote: »
    kaizen914 wrote: »
    Backbarring resto and running multiple healing skills vs slotting one skill that heals you and all nearby allies.
    Name a stamina class heal other than warden spores.... I’ll wait on that one

    Are you seriously asking that, as a stam sorc main?
  • Lyar09
    Lyar09
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vortigaunt wrote: »
    Lyar09 wrote: »
    kaizen914 wrote: »
    Backbarring resto and running multiple healing skills vs slotting one skill that heals you and all nearby allies.
    Name a stamina class heal other than warden spores.... I’ll wait on that one

    Are you seriously asking that, as a stam sorc main?

    You do realize that crit surge and dark deal are Magicka skills correct? They also scale off elfborn current and not precise strikes. So again, name a class skill that costs stamina that is an adequate heal other than warden spores
    DC | StamSorc | Ohh Lyar

    twitch.tv/lyarpvp
    youtube.com/lyaryt
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I think the OP’s right. Vigor and Rapid Regen are almost the same.

    Vigor is self only, Rapid Regen can hit anyone but it can also be used to heal allies. Stam have way more wp then mag have sp so vigor heals for more, but mag can use the BRP resto for major Vitality.

    I don’t see an issue, they’re just different but equal.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • SidraWillowsky
    SidraWillowsky
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    Lyar09 wrote: »
    kaizen914 wrote: »
    Backbarring resto and running multiple healing skills vs slotting one skill that heals you and all nearby allies.
    Name a stamina class heal other than warden spores.... I’ll wait on that one

    Leeching strikes from nb.
    Critical surge (stamsorcs use this morph) and dark deal (stam morph which costs mag and restores stam) from sorc
    Cleansing ritual and morphs from templar (scales from max resources)

    I think that what they meant is an instantaneous class heal that doesn't depend on dealing damage and/or isn't a Hot. I know that there's not one for stamblade... BUT there's also not one for magblade. The class has a lot of healing skills, but they tend to be HoTs (Refreshing Path) or depend on dealing damage to actually heal (Swallow Soul, Grim Focus, Leeching).
  • danara
    danara
    ✭✭✭
    Iskiab wrote: »
    I think the OP’s right. Vigor and Rapid Regen are almost the same.

    Vigor is self only, Rapid Regen can hit anyone but it can also be used to heal allies. Stam have way more wp then mag have sp so vigor heals for more, but mag can use the BRP resto for major Vitality.

    I don’t see an issue, they’re just different but equal.

    But what the OP forgot is that ALL Stam have access to Viguor when you dont have access to magicka spell UNLESS you slot a resto staff, this is limiting build construction for magicka.

    ZOS want to implement stamina healer ? Me and my 10 healers are completely open to that, i would love to play with New toys. But it has to be done right. A new weapon specific to stam healer has to be implement in the game, with unique buff/debuff. Alteration Staff maybe ?
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Or neither bro. Its been standardized deal with it?
    For All Those Who Don’t Understand What Real Balancing is, or What The Word Buff Means in Video Games:
    Please just stop (with the nerfomancing). We are all sick of people like you, no offense. Just play the game w/o gear or armor. You are going to die and scream anyway.

    Otherwise I don’t mind helping you fix your build for either PvE or PvP. Just hit me up w/ a PM.
  • Derra
    Derra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lyar09 wrote: »
    Purify is a joke of a heal even for Magicka users.

    You haven’t been on pts have you?
    If you have I know for sure you haven’t touched Templar. It’s the highest sustained healing for Templar on pts.

    Every comment is from a pvp pov unless stated otherwise.

    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Urusovite
    Urusovite
    ✭✭✭
    Or neither bro. Its been standardized deal with it?

    Well you are entitled to that option as others are theirs. This is not a nerf thread, but rather a thread trying to say don't argue for just the stamina version or just the magic version.
    PS4 NA
    Medium Stam Dk since launch
    Technologically incompetent I'm told

    Solo play is the only way
  • Calboy
    Calboy
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt vigor literally the only stamina heal in the game that only heals and does nothing else. Leeching, surge, dark deal, rally etc all have alternative uses and dark deal also has a cast time as well

    And then there is shields
    Edited by Calboy on August 1, 2019 7:07AM
  • Saril_Durzam
    Saril_Durzam
    ✭✭✭✭
    Really?

    This has been the answer Stamina players have given in forums for weeks. Hey, there is a skill that heals as much as Vigor! And check, you only have to put a weapon that halves your chances of doing damage! Obviously, both are balanced.
  • miteba
    miteba
    ✭✭✭
    (PvP wise)
    I play with all classes regularly, both in mag and stam. I really dont have favorites so im not biased by that.

    My experience in this subject (buff to heals) is that stamina characters will benefit more than magicka characters, so i do not agree with the OP.
    I have in consideration the use of 2H (more complete and offensive) vs Resto Staff (defensive/support) and the ~light~ prevalence of stamina over magicka characters, in PvP.

    Anyway, i am never in favor of nerfs because ZoS tends to go from 8 to 80 and vice-versa.

    ie if a skill is OP after a buff, they nerf it to the ground next (to the point of almost killing it) instead of a more balanced nerf.
    The same applies to underpowered ones, where they buff it like crazy, when they should only tweak it, but this doesnt happen so frequently since we are in a Nerf Age for some time already.
    Edited by miteba on August 1, 2019 10:23AM
Sign In or Register to comment.