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Please Give Surge Skill Major Sorcery From Base.
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Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭
Why? Do you not want sorcs to have a class skill that offers maj sorcery? It’s here, either way (not my image):
yes ok, good job, but we were talking about magicka sorcerer damage dealers
Not what your op stated, but ok. If you were using this skill for the major sorcery before, again, it’s still there and still available for you to use as a damage dealer. The healing won’t be as strong or reliable if you do so, but that’s what healers are for.
Humm id agree with you if it wasnt by other classes have reliable heals. If everyone was as Sorc, id back you up. But it´s not. Wardens, Templars, Nercros, all stamina classes got them (and NBs and DKs to some point aswell). So that lefts magSorc as the only class with no reliable, self heal on demand, if you dont count potions or matriarch which is now a big waste of two slots, specially considering the quantity of good ST Dots now, each one taking one skill slot.0 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭madeeh91rwb17_ESO wrote: »If you want to play with a perfectly tuned skill for no reason.
And mess up power surge.
Be my guest.
But can you please just give the surge major sorcery from base? Or add it to the crit-surge morph as well?
Cause I certainly am not very thrilled about using that skill after this proposed new "awesome change".
Should only take 10 minutes of coding, I'd guess.
Thanks.
Spot on!Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »No needed. Either use pots or slot Degeneration. Better make Dark Exchange instant, even with some mag regen nerf.
Your suggestions are not even remotely a viable solution for replacing Power Surge.
you... do you even read patch notes? degeneration is one of the best mag dots in the game now. Everyone, PvE or PvP will be using it. their suggestion is literally the meta, and is 100% viable.
Based on your logic, if they add Major Sorcery to base spell and Critical Surge morph, no one will use it anyways, because Entropy is waaaaay better source of Major Sorcery. Do you really think so?
wow you people are obtuse. Just use Crit surge for self heals. Let's put this some way you'd understand.
on live you have 2 skills on your bar. Liquid lightning and Power surge. Next patch, crit surge gets better healing, and degeneration is the best dot in the game. lets morph power surge to crit surge and drop LL, because it gets nerfed and AOE damage is bad. Instead we slot degeneration.
Now instead of LL and power surge we have Crit surge and Degeneration.
instead of getting Major sorcery, an aoe, and a self heal, you now have a stronger self heal, stronger dot, major sorcery, and more sustain from degeneration.
do you get it now? if you were using power surge exclusively for the major sorcery then idk what to tell you. That's really dumb.
I feel like you are mixing PVE and PVP builds if I am being honest.
A trial sorc is likely not going to drop LL, because even after the nerf, they will want the cleave damage. That said, a trial sorc isnt likely to slot Power Surge either. My trial sorc doesnt really give a crap about this change.
A solo PVE sorc (thinking VMA mostly), just increased their potion bill most likely or they lost a bar spot. Well lets assume a double pet VMA build (what a lot of people use for their first clear). Surge, 2 pets, plus a shield takes 6/10 bar slots, meaning of the obvious skills (spam, curse, frags, execute, boundless storm), you are already leaving at least one out, and now with needing to slot a mages guild skill, you are leaving two out. Not saying its not managable, but not sure its really a necessary change. My VMA sorc, in reality now needs to run spell pots or drop a pet. (admittedly, I dont run VMA anymore, but m sorc is a good way for people to learn)
A PVP sorc (unless playing in a ball group) is not going to slot LL in the first place. Lets assume a 1 pet sorc who usually has 8 slots to work with. Surge for heals, Boundless for resist, streak for mobility, Dark Exchange for sustain, a Shield for defense, Spam+Frags+ Curse+ Execute for a combo, leaves you one skill over already. Now we need yet another skill for Sorcery or we lose any potion flexibility which is very important in PVP.
Not saying for one second that you cant work around it, but sorcs already have the most cramped bars of any class and this is simply compounding that problem. Also, a freaking sorcerer should have class access to major sorcery (or nobody should).Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on August 6, 2019 5:32PM5 -
AltmerGF✭✭✭It amazes me how totally on board some people are with all class identity being removed from this game in favor of the same generic abilities on everyone.5 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »
Why? Do you not want sorcs to have a class skill that offers maj sorcery? It’s here, either way (not my image):
yes ok, good job, but we were talking about magicka sorcerer damage dealers
Not what your op stated, but ok. If you were using this skill for the major sorcery before, again, it’s still there and still available for you to use as a damage dealer. The healing won’t be as strong or reliable if you do so, but that’s what healers are for.
Humm id agree with you if it wasnt by other classes have reliable heals. If everyone was as Sorc, id back you up. But it´s not. Wardens, Templars, Nercros, all stamina classes got them (and NBs and DKs to some point aswell). So that lefts magSorc as the only class with no reliable, self heal on demand, if you dont count potions or matriarch which is now a big waste of two slots, specially considering the quantity of good ST Dots now, each one taking one skill slot.
Use Structured Entropy ( a Dot , the sustain isn't noticeable enough in 90% of the situations ) or Dark Deal, give me dark deal on my magDK and you can have coagulating.Jodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Why? Do you not want sorcs to have a class skill that offers maj sorcery? It’s here, either way (not my image):
yes ok, good job, but we were talking about magicka sorcerer damage dealers
Not what your op stated, but ok. If you were using this skill for the major sorcery before, again, it’s still there and still available for you to use as a damage dealer. The healing won’t be as strong or reliable if you do so, but that’s what healers are for.
Sure then, I'll just bring my healer friend into VMA with me.. oh yeah, it's a solo arena.1 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Why? Do you not want sorcs to have a class skill that offers maj sorcery? It’s here, either way (not my image):
yes ok, good job, but we were talking about magicka sorcerer damage dealers
Not what your op stated, but ok. If you were using this skill for the major sorcery before, again, it’s still there and still available for you to use as a damage dealer. The healing won’t be as strong or reliable if you do so, but that’s what healers are for.
Sure then, I'll just bring my healer friend into VMA with me.. oh yeah, it's a solo arena.
Why are you not using spell power pots in vMA?Jodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »
Why? Do you not want sorcs to have a class skill that offers maj sorcery? It’s here, either way (not my image):
yes ok, good job, but we were talking about magicka sorcerer damage dealers
Not what your op stated, but ok. If you were using this skill for the major sorcery before, again, it’s still there and still available for you to use as a damage dealer. The healing won’t be as strong or reliable if you do so, but that’s what healers are for.
Humm id agree with you if it wasnt by other classes have reliable heals. If everyone was as Sorc, id back you up. But it´s not. Wardens, Templars, Nercros, all stamina classes got them (and NBs and DKs to some point aswell). So that lefts magSorc as the only class with no reliable, self heal on demand, if you dont count potions or matriarch which is now a big waste of two slots, specially considering the quantity of good ST Dots now, each one taking one skill slot.
Use Structured Entropy ( a Dot , the sustain isn't noticeable enough in 90% of the situations ) or Dark Deal, give me dark deal on my magDK and you can have coagulating.
Dark deal, the skill that can be interrupted and has a cast time (it also costs stamina, a very precious resource in VMA). I'll take the instant heal of coag any day to that nonsense. And SE, the DOT that you have to recast every time an enemy dies, meaning you will constantly be spamming it on enemies or you won't be getting healed, outside of boss fights that are just the boss and no adds, good luck sustaining that in solo play like VMA.Edited by jaws343 on August 6, 2019 5:43PM2 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »
Why? Do you not want sorcs to have a class skill that offers maj sorcery? It’s here, either way (not my image):
yes ok, good job, but we were talking about magicka sorcerer damage dealers
Not what your op stated, but ok. If you were using this skill for the major sorcery before, again, it’s still there and still available for you to use as a damage dealer. The healing won’t be as strong or reliable if you do so, but that’s what healers are for.
Humm id agree with you if it wasnt by other classes have reliable heals. If everyone was as Sorc, id back you up. But it´s not. Wardens, Templars, Nercros, all stamina classes got them (and NBs and DKs to some point aswell). So that lefts magSorc as the only class with no reliable, self heal on demand, if you dont count potions or matriarch which is now a big waste of two slots, specially considering the quantity of good ST Dots now, each one taking one skill slot.
Use Structured Entropy ( a Dot , the sustain isn't noticeable enough in 90% of the situations ) or Dark Deal, give me dark deal on my magDK and you can have coagulating.
Dark deal, the skill that can be interrupted and has a cast time (it also costs stamina, a very precious resource in VMA). I'll take the instant heal of coag any day to that nonsense. And SE, the DOT that you have to recast every time an enemy dies, meaning you will constantly be spamming it on enemies or you won't be getting healed, outside of boss fights that are just the boss and no adds, good luck sustaining that in solo play like VMA.
I run vMA with just a shield on magDK, don't worry, I'm fine.Jodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭To anyone with the Entropy argument.
Yes, you are right, Entropy is widely available to anyone. Ok, so what happens if we give Major Sorcery to base Surge and both morphs? Practicaly nothing. Most players use SP pots and now degeneration is getting very common. However there are some of us (and a lot of us) who would more than welcome Major Sorcery on both Surge morphs. So, you must agree, if we ask for this, we don't ask for buffs or nerfs, it's merely a QoL improvement request.
Are you against QoL improvements? Than, shame on you.Edited by Olupajmibanan on August 6, 2019 5:46PM6 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »To anyone with the Entropy argument.
Yes, you are right, Entropy is widely available to anyone. Ok, so what happens if we give Major Sorcery to base Surge and both morphs? Practicaly nothing. Most players use SP pots and now degeneration is getting very common. However there are some of us (and a lot of us) who would more than welcome Major Sorcery on both Surge morphs. So, you must agree, if we ask for this, we don't ask for buffs or nerfs, it's merely a QoL improvement request.
Ade you against QoL improvements? Than, shame on you.
Nah I completely agree with you, just his qq-ing about not having enough in vMA is tilting and LOL.Jodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.1 -
jypcy✭✭✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »
Why? Do you not want sorcs to have a class skill that offers maj sorcery? It’s here, either way (not my image):
yes ok, good job, but we were talking about magicka sorcerer damage dealers
Not what your op stated, but ok. If you were using this skill for the major sorcery before, again, it’s still there and still available for you to use as a damage dealer. The healing won’t be as strong or reliable if you do so, but that’s what healers are for.
Humm id agree with you if it wasnt by other classes have reliable heals. If everyone was as Sorc, id back you up. But it´s not. Wardens, Templars, Nercros, all stamina classes got them (and NBs and DKs to some point aswell). So that lefts magSorc as the only class with no reliable, self heal on demand, if you dont count potions or matriarch which is now a big waste of two slots, specially considering the quantity of good ST Dots now, each one taking one skill slot.
Yeah, I was responding to complaints about maj sorcery but healing is certainly another conversation. I’d say that’s more a factor of the matriarch nerf, though, not power surge changes. If it was previously your “reliable self heal,” you can just use crit surge instead and get even more healing than previously. If matriarch was previously your reliable self heal, then dark deal is probably what ZOS sees as your option, but its viability is questionable. Still, in the vast majority of content, self heals shouldn’t be all that important if you’re running with a healer as ZOS intends.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »
Not saying for one second that you cant work around it, but sorcs already have the most cramped bars of any class and this is simply compounding that problem. Also, a freaking sorcerer should have class access to major sorcery (or nobody should).Olupajmibanan wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »No needed. Either use pots or slot Degeneration. Better make Dark Exchange instant, even with some mag regen nerf.
Your suggestions are not even remotely a viable solution for replacing Power Surge.
you... do you even read patch notes? degeneration is one of the best mag dots in the game now. Everyone, PvE or PvP will be using it. their suggestion is literally the meta, and is 100% viable.
Based on your logic, if they add Major Sorcery to base spell and Critical Surge morph, no one will use it anyways, because Entropy is waaaaay better source of Major Sorcery. Do you really think so?
wow you people are obtuse. Just use Crit surge for self heals. Let's put this some way you'd understand.
on live you have 2 skills on your bar. Liquid lightning and Power surge. Next patch, crit surge gets better healing, and degeneration is the best dot in the game. lets morph power surge to crit surge and drop LL, because it gets nerfed and AOE damage is bad. Instead we slot degeneration.
Now instead of LL and power surge we have Crit surge and Degeneration.
instead of getting Major sorcery, an aoe, and a self heal, you now have a stronger self heal, stronger dot, major sorcery, and more sustain from degeneration.
do you get it now? if you were using power surge exclusively for the major sorcery then idk what to tell you. That's really dumb.
I mean, suggesting that sorcerer needs to have class-based access to maj sorcery is really just arguing arbitrary semantics. I have yet to see any complaints about sorcerers not having access to minor sorcery, even though following the same logic as for maj sorcery I assume that’s as justifiable a conclusion. But ZOS could’ve easily called sorcerers wizards or sorcery potency and the argument falls apart.
Why? Do you not want sorcs to have a class skill that offers maj sorcery? It’s here, either way (not my image):
yes ok, good job, but we were talking about magicka sorcerer damage dealers
Not what your op stated, but ok. If you were using this skill for the major sorcery before, again, it’s still there and still available for you to use as a damage dealer. The healing won’t be as strong or reliable if you do so, but that’s what healers are for.
Sure then, I'll just bring my healer friend into VMA with me.. oh yeah, it's a solo arena.
You can bring your healer friend the twilight matriarch with you. Or just use crit surge and a shield instead.1 -
jypcy✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »To anyone with the Entropy argument.
Yes, you are right, Entropy is widely available to anyone. Ok, so what happens if we give Major Sorcery to base Surge and both morphs? Practicaly nothing. Most players use SP pots and now degeneration is getting very common. However there are some of us (and a lot of us) who would more than welcome Major Sorcery on both Surge morphs. So, you must agree, if we ask for this, we don't ask for buffs or nerfs, it's merely a QoL improvement request.
Are you against QoL improvements? Than, shame on you.
I don’t think anybody is against that change (or at the very least, I’m not). We’re just pointing out that if the changes in 5.1.4 go through as stated, it’s really, truly not the end of the world.1 -
Bexy✭✭✭Yes and please do not ruin Crit Surge in the process. It's the only reason why people pick stam sorc, it has the least amount of stamina dps morphs.
0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »
Why? Do you not want sorcs to have a class skill that offers maj sorcery? It’s here, either way (not my image):
yes ok, good job, but we were talking about magicka sorcerer damage dealers
Not what your op stated, but ok. If you were using this skill for the major sorcery before, again, it’s still there and still available for you to use as a damage dealer. The healing won’t be as strong or reliable if you do so, but that’s what healers are for.
Humm id agree with you if it wasnt by other classes have reliable heals. If everyone was as Sorc, id back you up. But it´s not. Wardens, Templars, Nercros, all stamina classes got them (and NBs and DKs to some point aswell). So that lefts magSorc as the only class with no reliable, self heal on demand, if you dont count potions or matriarch which is now a big waste of two slots, specially considering the quantity of good ST Dots now, each one taking one skill slot.
Yeah, I was responding to complaints about maj sorcery but healing is certainly another conversation. I’d say that’s more a factor of the matriarch nerf, though, not power surge changes. If it was previously your “reliable self heal,” you can just use crit surge instead and get even more healing than previously. If matriarch was previously your reliable self heal, then dark deal is probably what ZOS sees as your option, but its viability is questionable. Still, in the vast majority of content, self heals shouldn’t be all that important if you’re running with a healer as ZOS intends.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »
Not saying for one second that you cant work around it, but sorcs already have the most cramped bars of any class and this is simply compounding that problem. Also, a freaking sorcerer should have class access to major sorcery (or nobody should).Olupajmibanan wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »No needed. Either use pots or slot Degeneration. Better make Dark Exchange instant, even with some mag regen nerf.
Your suggestions are not even remotely a viable solution for replacing Power Surge.
you... do you even read patch notes? degeneration is one of the best mag dots in the game now. Everyone, PvE or PvP will be using it. their suggestion is literally the meta, and is 100% viable.
Based on your logic, if they add Major Sorcery to base spell and Critical Surge morph, no one will use it anyways, because Entropy is waaaaay better source of Major Sorcery. Do you really think so?
wow you people are obtuse. Just use Crit surge for self heals. Let's put this some way you'd understand.
on live you have 2 skills on your bar. Liquid lightning and Power surge. Next patch, crit surge gets better healing, and degeneration is the best dot in the game. lets morph power surge to crit surge and drop LL, because it gets nerfed and AOE damage is bad. Instead we slot degeneration.
Now instead of LL and power surge we have Crit surge and Degeneration.
instead of getting Major sorcery, an aoe, and a self heal, you now have a stronger self heal, stronger dot, major sorcery, and more sustain from degeneration.
do you get it now? if you were using power surge exclusively for the major sorcery then idk what to tell you. That's really dumb.
I mean, suggesting that sorcerer needs to have class-based access to maj sorcery is really just arguing arbitrary semantics. I have yet to see any complaints about sorcerers not having access to minor sorcery, even though following the same logic as for maj sorcery I assume that’s as justifiable a conclusion. But ZOS could’ve easily called sorcerers wizards or sorcery potency and the argument falls apart.
Why? Do you not want sorcs to have a class skill that offers maj sorcery? It’s here, either way (not my image):
yes ok, good job, but we were talking about magicka sorcerer damage dealers
Not what your op stated, but ok. If you were using this skill for the major sorcery before, again, it’s still there and still available for you to use as a damage dealer. The healing won’t be as strong or reliable if you do so, but that’s what healers are for.
Sure then, I'll just bring my healer friend into VMA with me.. oh yeah, it's a solo arena.
You can bring your healer friend the twilight matriarch with you. Or just use crit surge and a shield instead.
Yay! I get to use two bar slots to have a heal while every other class gets one wherever they want on their bar.2 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »
Why? Do you not want sorcs to have a class skill that offers maj sorcery? It’s here, either way (not my image):
yes ok, good job, but we were talking about magicka sorcerer damage dealers
Not what your op stated, but ok. If you were using this skill for the major sorcery before, again, it’s still there and still available for you to use as a damage dealer. The healing won’t be as strong or reliable if you do so, but that’s what healers are for.
Humm id agree with you if it wasnt by other classes have reliable heals. If everyone was as Sorc, id back you up. But it´s not. Wardens, Templars, Nercros, all stamina classes got them (and NBs and DKs to some point aswell). So that lefts magSorc as the only class with no reliable, self heal on demand, if you dont count potions or matriarch which is now a big waste of two slots, specially considering the quantity of good ST Dots now, each one taking one skill slot.
Yeah, I was responding to complaints about maj sorcery but healing is certainly another conversation. I’d say that’s more a factor of the matriarch nerf, though, not power surge changes. If it was previously your “reliable self heal,” you can just use crit surge instead and get even more healing than previously. If matriarch was previously your reliable self heal, then dark deal is probably what ZOS sees as your option, but its viability is questionable. Still, in the vast majority of content, self heals shouldn’t be all that important if you’re running with a healer as ZOS intends.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »
Not saying for one second that you cant work around it, but sorcs already have the most cramped bars of any class and this is simply compounding that problem. Also, a freaking sorcerer should have class access to major sorcery (or nobody should).Olupajmibanan wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »No needed. Either use pots or slot Degeneration. Better make Dark Exchange instant, even with some mag regen nerf.
Your suggestions are not even remotely a viable solution for replacing Power Surge.
you... do you even read patch notes? degeneration is one of the best mag dots in the game now. Everyone, PvE or PvP will be using it. their suggestion is literally the meta, and is 100% viable.
Based on your logic, if they add Major Sorcery to base spell and Critical Surge morph, no one will use it anyways, because Entropy is waaaaay better source of Major Sorcery. Do you really think so?
wow you people are obtuse. Just use Crit surge for self heals. Let's put this some way you'd understand.
on live you have 2 skills on your bar. Liquid lightning and Power surge. Next patch, crit surge gets better healing, and degeneration is the best dot in the game. lets morph power surge to crit surge and drop LL, because it gets nerfed and AOE damage is bad. Instead we slot degeneration.
Now instead of LL and power surge we have Crit surge and Degeneration.
instead of getting Major sorcery, an aoe, and a self heal, you now have a stronger self heal, stronger dot, major sorcery, and more sustain from degeneration.
do you get it now? if you were using power surge exclusively for the major sorcery then idk what to tell you. That's really dumb.
I mean, suggesting that sorcerer needs to have class-based access to maj sorcery is really just arguing arbitrary semantics. I have yet to see any complaints about sorcerers not having access to minor sorcery, even though following the same logic as for maj sorcery I assume that’s as justifiable a conclusion. But ZOS could’ve easily called sorcerers wizards or sorcery potency and the argument falls apart.
Why? Do you not want sorcs to have a class skill that offers maj sorcery? It’s here, either way (not my image):
yes ok, good job, but we were talking about magicka sorcerer damage dealers
Not what your op stated, but ok. If you were using this skill for the major sorcery before, again, it’s still there and still available for you to use as a damage dealer. The healing won’t be as strong or reliable if you do so, but that’s what healers are for.
Sure then, I'll just bring my healer friend into VMA with me.. oh yeah, it's a solo arena.
You can bring your healer friend the twilight matriarch with you. Or just use crit surge and a shield instead.
Yay! I get to use two bar slots to have a heal while every other class gets one wherever they want on their bar.
Isn't OPs subject content, go make a thread, also it's free damage passively with you doing -nothing-.Jodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.0 -
Aurie✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Why? Do you not want sorcs to have a class skill that offers maj sorcery? It’s here, either way (not my image):
But it triggers off a crit heal only....fine for the handful of Sorc healers, useless for the vast majority of DPS Sorcs.1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »To anyone with the Entropy argument.
Yes, you are right, Entropy is widely available to anyone. Ok, so what happens if we give Major Sorcery to base Surge and both morphs? Practicaly nothing. Most players use SP pots and now degeneration is getting very common. However there are some of us (and a lot of us) who would more than welcome Major Sorcery on both Surge morphs. So, you must agree, if we ask for this, we don't ask for buffs or nerfs, it's merely a QoL improvement request.
Ade you against QoL improvements? Than, shame on you.
Nah I completely agree with you, just his qq-ing about not having enough in vMA is tilting and LOL.
MY point is that everyone keeps saying bring healers you don't need this skill. They are all clearly players who have no idea how sorcs player and have no idea how useless SE will be in solo play when you need to be able to reliably heal. They keep bringing up trials and dungeons, which is stupid, because self healing is actually needed in places like VMA.
And I am sure you can do VMA on your DK with a shield. Probably using burning embers too.0 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »To anyone with the Entropy argument.
Yes, you are right, Entropy is widely available to anyone. Ok, so what happens if we give Major Sorcery to base Surge and both morphs? Practicaly nothing. Most players use SP pots and now degeneration is getting very common. However there are some of us (and a lot of us) who would more than welcome Major Sorcery on both Surge morphs. So, you must agree, if we ask for this, we don't ask for buffs or nerfs, it's merely a QoL improvement request.
Ade you against QoL improvements? Than, shame on you.
Nah I completely agree with you, just his qq-ing about not having enough in vMA is tilting and LOL.
MY point is that everyone keeps saying bring healers you don't need this skill. They are all clearly players who have no idea how sorcs player and have no idea how useless SE will be in solo play when you need to be able to reliably heal. They keep bringing up trials and dungeons, which is stupid, because self healing is actually needed in places like VMA.
And I am sure you can do VMA on your DK with a shield. Probably using burning embers too.
@jypcy is an awesome sorc, I know from our experience together in vCR+3 him healing both of us downstairs
Also, burning embers when something is 28 meters consistently isn't really an argument, I use force pulse spam, dodge roll and shield a lot; Use an infused staff, one shot things more often.
Why? Do you not want sorcs to have a class skill that offers maj sorcery? It’s here, either way (not my image):
But it triggers off a crit heal only....fine for the handful of Sorc healers, useless for the vast majority of DPS Sorcs.
I'm for adding major sorc, but the argument is that you have access via a class ability, and also I use crit surge on magsorc right now... because I get major sorc elsewhere.Jodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.1 -
jypcy✭✭✭✭✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »To anyone with the Entropy argument.
Yes, you are right, Entropy is widely available to anyone. Ok, so what happens if we give Major Sorcery to base Surge and both morphs? Practicaly nothing. Most players use SP pots and now degeneration is getting very common. However there are some of us (and a lot of us) who would more than welcome Major Sorcery on both Surge morphs. So, you must agree, if we ask for this, we don't ask for buffs or nerfs, it's merely a QoL improvement request.
Ade you against QoL improvements? Than, shame on you.
Nah I completely agree with you, just his qq-ing about not having enough in vMA is tilting and LOL.
MY point is that everyone keeps saying bring healers you don't need this skill. They are all clearly players who have no idea how sorcs player and have no idea how useless SE will be in solo play when you need to be able to reliably heal. They keep bringing up trials and dungeons, which is stupid, because self healing is actually needed in places like VMA.
And I am sure you can do VMA on your DK with a shield. Probably using burning embers too.
I thought a 605k score was pretty good in vma but if you have tips on how I can improve that I’d be happy to hear them! But for vma especially I’m also speaking with the perspective of my magplar, because I don’t use shields or anything like breath of life for those runs. All my survivability comes from dealing damage, same as it likely will on my sorc for next patch, but with the added benefit of being able to better kite damage too on sorc.1 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »
Why? Do you not want sorcs to have a class skill that offers maj sorcery? It’s here, either way (not my image):
yes ok, good job, but we were talking about magicka sorcerer damage dealers
Not what your op stated, but ok. If you were using this skill for the major sorcery before, again, it’s still there and still available for you to use as a damage dealer. The healing won’t be as strong or reliable if you do so, but that’s what healers are for.
Humm id agree with you if it wasnt by other classes have reliable heals. If everyone was as Sorc, id back you up. But it´s not. Wardens, Templars, Nercros, all stamina classes got them (and NBs and DKs to some point aswell). So that lefts magSorc as the only class with no reliable, self heal on demand, if you dont count potions or matriarch which is now a big waste of two slots, specially considering the quantity of good ST Dots now, each one taking one skill slot.
Use Structured Entropy ( a Dot , the sustain isn't noticeable enough in 90% of the situations ) or Dark Deal, give me dark deal on my magDK and you can have coagulating.
Strutured Entrophy heals 1k each 2 seconds... it can help on healing but really, not enough.
Dark Exchange (Dark Pact is the stamina morph, much better tbh for how stamina/magicka works at this game) is a good skill, but with a long casting time... it takes 2 GDCs which hinders DPS alot, can be interrupted, and heal could come when it´s not necessary then... futhermore, its only 8k heal.
Id love to get an instant Dark Exchange even if they nerf the magicka recovered. That would help with two of biggest Sorc issues, selfhealing and sustain. On a toolset where each skill slot is worthy.0 -
InvictusApollo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »No needed. Either use pots or slot Degeneration. Better make Dark Exchange instant, even with some mag regen nerf.
Care to send me spell power pots? I dont like using them in pvp. It feels like Im losing cash every half a second.0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I agree. Power surge should have Major Sorcery from base. There is no sense in not having it right now.
Sorcerer bar space is always at a premium, and a 10-second single-target DoT, like Entropy or Flame Reach, is a pretty dubious skill in a trash fight. So giving Critical Surge Major Sorcery again would be helpful in the face of all the nerfing sorcerers are taking.3 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »To anyone with the Entropy argument.
Yes, you are right, Entropy is widely available to anyone. Ok, so what happens if we give Major Sorcery to base Surge and both morphs? Practicaly nothing. Most players use SP pots and now degeneration is getting very common. However there are some of us (and a lot of us) who would more than welcome Major Sorcery on both Surge morphs. So, you must agree, if we ask for this, we don't ask for buffs or nerfs, it's merely a QoL improvement request.
Ade you against QoL improvements? Than, shame on you.
Nah I completely agree with you, just his qq-ing about not having enough in vMA is tilting and LOL.
MY point is that everyone keeps saying bring healers you don't need this skill. They are all clearly players who have no idea how sorcs player and have no idea how useless SE will be in solo play when you need to be able to reliably heal. They keep bringing up trials and dungeons, which is stupid, because self healing is actually needed in places like VMA.
And I am sure you can do VMA on your DK with a shield. Probably using burning embers too.
I thought a 605k score was pretty good in vma but if you have tips on how I can improve that I’d be happy to hear them! But for vma especially I’m also speaking with the perspective of my magplar, because I don’t use shields or anything like breath of life for those runs. All my survivability comes from dealing damage, same as it likely will on my sorc for next patch, but with the added benefit of being able to better kite damage too on sorc.
This is the same type of ridiculous argument that top tier players tried to pull when cast time on shields were introduced. "Well I don't need shields so clearly this isn't a problem." You aren't all players, get over it. The fact is, this skill is gutted for mag players forcing either another bar slot to use the mag version or forcing to use the stam version and running spell power pots, while giving up other essential pots in PVP, like tristat.5 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »To anyone with the Entropy argument.
Yes, you are right, Entropy is widely available to anyone. Ok, so what happens if we give Major Sorcery to base Surge and both morphs? Practicaly nothing. Most players use SP pots and now degeneration is getting very common. However there are some of us (and a lot of us) who would more than welcome Major Sorcery on both Surge morphs. So, you must agree, if we ask for this, we don't ask for buffs or nerfs, it's merely a QoL improvement request.
Ade you against QoL improvements? Than, shame on you.
Nah I completely agree with you, just his qq-ing about not having enough in vMA is tilting and LOL.
MY point is that everyone keeps saying bring healers you don't need this skill. They are all clearly players who have no idea how sorcs player and have no idea how useless SE will be in solo play when you need to be able to reliably heal. They keep bringing up trials and dungeons, which is stupid, because self healing is actually needed in places like VMA.
And I am sure you can do VMA on your DK with a shield. Probably using burning embers too.
I thought a 605k score was pretty good in vma but if you have tips on how I can improve that I’d be happy to hear them! But for vma especially I’m also speaking with the perspective of my magplar, because I don’t use shields or anything like breath of life for those runs. All my survivability comes from dealing damage, same as it likely will on my sorc for next patch, but with the added benefit of being able to better kite damage too on sorc.
This is the same type of ridiculous argument that top tier players tried to pull when cast time on shields were introduced. "Well I don't need shields so clearly this isn't a problem." You aren't all players, get over it. The fact is, this skill is gutted for mag players forcing either another bar slot to use the mag version or forcing to use the stam version and running spell power pots, while giving up other essential pots in PVP, like tristat.
Nobody was okay with cast times on shields except people who didn't use shields period which even top tier people were like uh that's stupid.
Look, we are for the change, we are just saying you don't need to add the other issues to this thread.Saril_Durzam wrote: »brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »
Why? Do you not want sorcs to have a class skill that offers maj sorcery? It’s here, either way (not my image):
yes ok, good job, but we were talking about magicka sorcerer damage dealers
Not what your op stated, but ok. If you were using this skill for the major sorcery before, again, it’s still there and still available for you to use as a damage dealer. The healing won’t be as strong or reliable if you do so, but that’s what healers are for.
Humm id agree with you if it wasnt by other classes have reliable heals. If everyone was as Sorc, id back you up. But it´s not. Wardens, Templars, Nercros, all stamina classes got them (and NBs and DKs to some point aswell). So that lefts magSorc as the only class with no reliable, self heal on demand, if you dont count potions or matriarch which is now a big waste of two slots, specially considering the quantity of good ST Dots now, each one taking one skill slot.
Use Structured Entropy ( a Dot , the sustain isn't noticeable enough in 90% of the situations ) or Dark Deal, give me dark deal on my magDK and you can have coagulating.
Strutured Entrophy heals 1k each 2 seconds... it can help on healing but really, not enough.
Dark Exchange (Dark Pact is the stamina morph, much better tbh for how stamina/magicka works at this game) is a good skill, but with a long casting time... it takes 2 GDCs which hinders DPS alot, can be interrupted, and heal could come when it´s not necessary then... futhermore, its only 8k heal.
Id love to get an instant Dark Exchange even if they nerf the magicka recovered. That would help with two of biggest Sorc issues, selfhealing and sustain. On a toolset where each skill slot is worthy.
Dude, I've been advocating that forever, get rid of the instant resource burst, keep the heal, make the resource sustain over time stay, and make it instant cast... done.Jodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.2 -
CambionDaemon✭✭✭Whoever thought changing this was a good idea, obviously does not know what they are doing. Any group healing or buff to healing should be in the Dark Magic line (draining life from an enemy to give to yourself/others).0
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jypcy✭✭✭✭✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »To anyone with the Entropy argument.
Yes, you are right, Entropy is widely available to anyone. Ok, so what happens if we give Major Sorcery to base Surge and both morphs? Practicaly nothing. Most players use SP pots and now degeneration is getting very common. However there are some of us (and a lot of us) who would more than welcome Major Sorcery on both Surge morphs. So, you must agree, if we ask for this, we don't ask for buffs or nerfs, it's merely a QoL improvement request.
Ade you against QoL improvements? Than, shame on you.
Nah I completely agree with you, just his qq-ing about not having enough in vMA is tilting and LOL.
MY point is that everyone keeps saying bring healers you don't need this skill. They are all clearly players who have no idea how sorcs player and have no idea how useless SE will be in solo play when you need to be able to reliably heal. They keep bringing up trials and dungeons, which is stupid, because self healing is actually needed in places like VMA.
And I am sure you can do VMA on your DK with a shield. Probably using burning embers too.
I thought a 605k score was pretty good in vma but if you have tips on how I can improve that I’d be happy to hear them! But for vma especially I’m also speaking with the perspective of my magplar, because I don’t use shields or anything like breath of life for those runs. All my survivability comes from dealing damage, same as it likely will on my sorc for next patch, but with the added benefit of being able to better kite damage too on sorc.
This is the same type of ridiculous argument that top tier players tried to pull when cast time on shields were introduced. "Well I don't need shields so clearly this isn't a problem." You aren't all players, get over it. The fact is, this skill is gutted for mag players forcing either another bar slot to use the mag version or forcing to use the stam version and running spell power pots, while giving up other essential pots in PVP, like tristat.
I use vma as an example because that’s practically the only true solo content in the game. And if I’m not comfortable with surviving on a given class, I’ll absolutely still use other skills, like shield on my magden or spirit+resistant flesh on my magcro. For sorc, I’d either continue to use matriarch, add a shield, or use dark deal if I feel like my other abilities aren’t enough.
I think it’s reasonable to have a trade off between survivability and damage. ZOS very explicitly has a tank role, a damage role, and a healer role built into the game, and in practically all content outside of vma, you can decide between running with a healer or building for your own survivability to manage without one (at the cost of damage).1