Maintenance for the week of March 2:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – March 2
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – March 2
Medium Armor is weak
-
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I actually think resource management is easier on heavy as you get both resources back for being hit and the additional stam back on heavy attacks. The real problem for me with medium is the snares and roots, as your movement advantage can easily be taken away. The shuffle changes are a huge buff to medium and will help with that, as well as I wish the speed buff was to movement speed instead of sprint. Instead of the sneak passive, I think a temporary buff after roll dodging would be warranted, such as gaining a small bit of penetration or your next heal casted heals for a small bit more. Something that would help with their hit and run playstyle.
There is something to be said about the heavy resources management. Particularly how mediums recovery gets turned off while blocking or sprinting. I think a passive that allows stam recovery while sprinting would be nice.
And lag does favor resistance over active defense
It would be nice , if part of the stam recovery would stay active while dodging/blocking as a medium armor user, since their survivability comes from reacting to enemies, which is quite literally the most difficult playstyle in the entire game because animation cancelling exists.
heavy armor and light armor users get to sustain while defending themselves but medium armor, no matter how high your stam regen is gets to suffer.2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »I actually think resource management is easier on heavy as you get both resources back for being hit and the additional stam back on heavy attacks. The real problem for me with medium is the snares and roots, as your movement advantage can easily be taken away. The shuffle changes are a huge buff to medium and will help with that, as well as I wish the speed buff was to movement speed instead of sprint. Instead of the sneak passive, I think a temporary buff after roll dodging would be warranted, such as gaining a small bit of penetration or your next heal casted heals for a small bit more. Something that would help with their hit and run playstyle.
There is something to be said about the heavy resources management. Particularly how mediums recovery gets turned off while blocking or sprinting. I think a passive that allows stam recovery while sprinting would be nice.
And lag does favor resistance over active defense
It would be nice , if part of the stam recovery would stay active while dodging/blocking as a medium armor user, since their survivability comes from reacting to enemies, which is quite literally the most difficult playstyle in the entire game because animation cancelling exists.
heavy armor and light armor users get to sustain while defending themselves but medium armor, no matter how high your stam regen is gets to suffer.
Interesting for sure. But I don't think it would be wise to give them full regen while sprinting, blocking etc.
But how high would be a good value? 50% as locked 5 piece passive? Or as per piece passive, cut base regen but grant regen while sprinting as high as what Wind Walker gives you?0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭With the premature nerf to shuffle and the upcoming nerf to vigor (thanks to the stam DK major mending cheese tooltips) it looks like heavy will stay meta. With the vastly increased dot damage and heavy still being able to access all the mobility of medium, I just don’t see there being reason to go back to medium. My theory is that medium is still going to get absolutely melted by magicka and dot builds.4 -
MentalxHammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Medium is strong imo, the WD damage it gives is equal to most 5 piece buffs, plus you get great sustain and the mobility is unparalleled. Regarding stam I believe heavy armor is an old meta, medium/nord is da wae.0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MentalxHammer wrote: »Medium is strong imo, the WD damage it gives is equal to most 5 piece buffs, plus you get great sustain and the mobility is unparalleled. Regarding stam I believe heavy armor is an old meta, medium/nord is da wae.
Actually imo, mobility is pretty well matched by both heavy and some light classes at this point. The wpn damage is nice sure but both light and heavy passives are equally as good or better.2 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭Reason you run 7 medium is because just running 6 already makes it worse than 5 light armor
I absolutely would love a reason to run medium armor in a different way than 7 pieces for a stamDPS, 1 piece for the undaunted passive, or no pieces.Marshall1289 wrote: »The passives are close to mirrors of one another between Light and Medium as they should be. Giving light armor an edge up just because of a Stamina Meta is not a solution, it's a bandaid. Armor is one of the core pillars of the game's design like Racial's. It should be as equal as possible.
If Stamina dps is meta, you don't blame the armor when there almost identical to light, you blame every other ability, passive, weapon skill lines and armor sets that have put Stamina in that place.
That's besides the point, the thread isn't about PVE it's about PVP utility of Medium Armor.
For example:
Heavy:- Passives have struck a balanced position so I don't think it needs any changes.
Medium- Movement Speed over Sprint Speed, more versatile and helps in active combat.
- More useful sustain since Stam Recovery =/= Mag Recovery and does not compare to the benefits of Constitution or Heavy Attack sustain from Heavy.
- Sneak passives are useless to many players, something more versatile would be appreciated.
- Crit per piece only gives .5% more in 7 than 5 pieces in light, not worth the nerf to your crit to go 5/1/1 almost ever, 10% crit for 5 pieces is the way to go and should be the same between Medium and Light.
Light- Needs more Spell Resistance, I'd argue close to double to offset the low armor on each piece compared to Medium. Medium having higher physical resistance is fine, but higher spell resistance doesn't make much sense.
- Snare reduction is next to useless due to calculations.
- Sprint cost reduction is undervalued and does not help sustain their limited Stamina pool, I'd offer them Break Free cost reduction too.
- Spell Penetration while versatile for DD builds, is not as versatile as Damage for Healing, therefor next to useless for Magicka Healers.
While I can't say I agree with your proposed changes, my suggestion would absolutely have been but a bandaid for the imbalance.4884 spell pen > 15% weapon damage.
Stam has to lean into WD hard to come close to the damage from the passive pen that light gives.
To be fair, that compares the two in a vacuum. In practice, PVE in particular, penetration is very easy to get to the highest you'll ever need it, meaning that the pen stat for light armor is practically wasted. Damage doesn't have an effective cap (outside of one-shotting low level mobs), so is always beneficial. I can see your argument being a bit more relevant in PVP, but with all the dps advantages stamina classes have as a whole over magicka classes, I still don't think the advantage you claim is near enough to balance it out, personally.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The day ZoS changed old evasion into the crap of reducing AoE dmg(which is going to be nerfed this patch) was the day they killed medium armor
They tried to do the same with Light armor and shields some time ago, saddly (for them) they failed, though shields are way weaker than they used to be.
So the only choice you have is to wear HA.
ZoS has nerfed every single defensive option we had some years ago. In turn they have started this power creep that is only countered by HA and stupid buffs like major protection.
Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique4 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭The day ZoS changed old evasion into the crap of reducing AoE dmg(which is going to be nerfed this patch) was the day they killed medium armor
They tried to do the same with Light armor and shields some time ago, saddly (for them) they failed, though shields are way weaker than they used to be.
So the only choice you have is to wear HA.
ZoS has nerfed every single defensive option we had some years ago. In turn they have started this power creep that is only countered by HA and stupid buffs like major protection.
That was a sad day, and while I can kind of understand why they wanted to make the dodge mechanic more consistent, I wish they would have replaced it with something a little more similar or equivalent not "take less damage from standing in the red" which no player worth their salt does in the first place.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.0 -
jaysins✭✭✭Medium is not mobile enough and needs a few adjustments, though the shuffle changes are really nice and needed. The following are possible changes from a strictly PvP standpoint with the hope that they don't affect PvE too much.
1) Make 10% movement speed instead of sprint speed
2) Break free cost reduction (would be very helpful for BG's and no-cp and help keep us mobile)
3) Some sort of buff or effect associated with roll dodge. Five seconds of minor vitality or minor protection maybe but I really like the idea of one, maybe two seconds, of cc immunity afterwards.
The biggest problem in medium is that if we're locked down we have less defenses than the other two armor types and it is currently easy to do with all the snares and roots in the game. These changes would help keep us mobile while not increasing our damage. It think the bonuses to sneak are too niche and should be replaced with the above but I know there are others who will disagree.Jaisins -AD Stamsorc. Can't outrun an orc sorc
Bearingitall -EP Warden. Lions and tigers and especially Bears oh my1 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It almost like the forum is full of people with more questions than answers and take a 30 yr old slogan to explain what they are not able to understand.Wuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions0 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭With the premature nerf to shuffle and the upcoming nerf to vigor (thanks to the stam DK major mending cheese tooltips) it looks like heavy will stay meta. With the vastly increased dot damage and heavy still being able to access all the mobility of medium, I just don’t see there being reason to go back to medium. My theory is that medium is still going to get absolutely melted by magicka and dot builds.
Fury is going to stack so much faster as well, think people are either holding their tongues till it hits live or trying to sell the Med Meta for build vids0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They can easily fix medium armor by rolling back that *** change that made every other single target skill hit you mid dodgeroll.
Nothing makes me "happier" than to get incapped mid roll, or eat multiple frags, even though I AM CLEARLY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE *** DODGEROLL ANIMATION. And no its not lag, its the *** change they made a while back.
2 -
JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭i agree than medium passives are weaker than it should be to fit this playstyle.
And we have actually one Passive which is working only for stamblades (but we have 5 classes...) and let's be honest even there it's not much valuable, kind of role play with vampire's sneak moving...
"Improved Sneak" to work with...Edited by JusticeSouldier on August 3, 2019 6:14PMall classes. pc platform, dissapointed.2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭With the premature nerf to shuffle and the upcoming nerf to vigor (thanks to the stam DK major mending cheese tooltips) it looks like heavy will stay meta. With the vastly increased dot damage and heavy still being able to access all the mobility of medium, I just don’t see there being reason to go back to medium. My theory is that medium is still going to get absolutely melted by magicka and dot builds.
While I understand why this is frustrating, the extra healing is almost all the reason to play stamDk over the other, more mobile, more versatile stam classes. If zenimax were to take some of that healing and give it back as mobility or better damage, I would not mind it.
as a side note this is nothing new, StamDK was always good at pushing ridicilously high vigor tooltips, People forgot as the stamina meta shifted towards less max stam, more weapon damage. Though even right now you can very easily push over 20k vigor tooltip as stamDk, even in no-cp.Edited by Ragnarock41 on August 3, 2019 8:57PM0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »With the premature nerf to shuffle and the upcoming nerf to vigor (thanks to the stam DK major mending cheese tooltips) it looks like heavy will stay meta. With the vastly increased dot damage and heavy still being able to access all the mobility of medium, I just don’t see there being reason to go back to medium. My theory is that medium is still going to get absolutely melted by magicka and dot builds.
While I understand why this is frustrating, the extra healing is almost all the reason to play stamDk over the other, more mobile, more versatile stam classes. If zenimax were to take some of that healing and give it back as mobility or better damage, I would not mind it.
as a side note this is nothing new, StamDK was always good at pushing ridicilously high vigor tooltips, People forgot as the stamina meta shifted towards less max stam, more weapon damage. Though even right now you can very easily push over 20k vigor tooltip as stamDk, even in no-cp.
Im not sure if I would offer that on a stamdk. NBs, Templar, and necros have access to a way to suppress DOTs. I always view the DK extra healing as an alternative. Of course, all changes if they have a friend to provide purges.3 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »With the premature nerf to shuffle and the upcoming nerf to vigor (thanks to the stam DK major mending cheese tooltips) it looks like heavy will stay meta. With the vastly increased dot damage and heavy still being able to access all the mobility of medium, I just don’t see there being reason to go back to medium. My theory is that medium is still going to get absolutely melted by magicka and dot builds.
While I understand why this is frustrating, the extra healing is almost all the reason to play stamDk over the other, more mobile, more versatile stam classes. If zenimax were to take some of that healing and give it back as mobility or better damage, I would not mind it.
as a side note this is nothing new, StamDK was always good at pushing ridicilously high vigor tooltips, People forgot as the stamina meta shifted towards less max stam, more weapon damage. Though even right now you can very easily push over 20k vigor tooltip as stamDk, even in no-cp.
Im not sure if I would offer that on a stamdk. NBs, Templar, and necros have access to a way to suppress DOTs. I always view the DK extra healing as an alternative. Of course, all changes if they have a friend to provide purges.
Its true that every class have different means of survival however its stamDK that is the poster child of tank builds, so we take the blame as usual. I would say every class deserves to have mobility,tankyness and damage, and be able to make a decision on what they value more. Stam warden is a great example, of a class that can be specialized to do all of these things.
Stamblade recently got great options for brawler builds and stamsorcs were also buffed in that regard aswell. Heck, even stamDks received a buff to their dot damage this patch, which is what I've been begging for years. It came at the cost of a massive nerf to corrosive armor but I knew they would not let us have it, so I was ready for it mentally.Edited by Ragnarock41 on August 3, 2019 9:39PM0 -
JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭master_vanargand wrote: »Vigor nerfed and DoT buffed.
Medium Armor can't survive in PvP.
vigor here not matter, it's first buff and than nerf is same valuable for both medium and heavy.
but if to speak about buffed dots, which now deals sugnificantly bigger damage on medium users than on heavy, because bleeds doesn''t ignore resists anymore...and has no any mechanics to create like a feedback to stop overmitigation.
Like they done before...
i'm not sure that medium in at least cp environment can be competitive with heavy now.
Also reverberating now doesn't apply defile...which had like 70% of it's uptime everywhere from it.
My thoughts, pvp will be complete garbage with thousands of players with high mitigations around with a fights tending to be long and annoying next patch or 2.all classes. pc platform, dissapointed.0
