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Achieving 100% damage mitigation in the Scalebreaker PTS(With gif)
zbzszzzt123
✭✭✭
This must have been posted and discussed before, but I have done some testing and this is the result:
Introduction
With the new changes to Immovable on Scalebreaker PTS, it is now possible to achieve 100% block mitigation on a sorcerer: meaning that you will not take any damage whilst blocking.
Theory
First, we consider the Block Mitigation formula provided by UESP:
BlockMitigation = 1 - (0.5)*(1 - Skill.BlockMitigation - Item.BlockMitigation - Set.BlockMitigation - Buff.BlockMitigation)
Which simplified, is just, 1-(0.5)*(Block mitigation percentage), and we see that if block mitigation percentage were to achieve 100%, we would not take any damage. This is now possible with Immovable giving us 35% block mitigation with 7 piece heavy armor on a sorcerer.
With 36% from Bound Armor, 35% from Immovable, 20% from the Sword and Board passive, 10% Defensive Stance, we are able to achieve 101% damage mitigation, 109% if we include Footman's Fortune, and this makes us immune to damage as long as we keep Bound Armor and Immovable up.
I then went into the game tested this formula on Saint Olms in vAS and from the footage as well as combat log I was able to gather, I can confirm that this works.
Testing
On a control test, we only spec into the necessary passives but do not use either Immovable nor Bound Armor, and only blocking against the St.Olms attack:
https://gfycat.com/physicalunlinedchipmunk
As expected, we get killed pretty fast by the steam breath attack, and the combat log confirms this:
https://imgur.com/OKmdYVf
As we see a significant amount of incoming damage from the steam breath attack (Scalding Roar)
However, as we now buff up with both Bound Armor and Immovable, we now observe that his breath attack no longer deal any damage:
https://gfycat.com/sleepyserpentinebagworm
As we open combat log, we confirm that this is a 100% damage mitigation, since we won't even see the damage event in the first place:
https://imgur.com/a/ryi5T89
We observe that there is only two damage event: At [5.219s], Saint Olms hits me with a Exhasutive Discharge for 4592 and at [13.084] Swipe for 40963 (which is what ended the fight). We see a period of 8 seconds when we are not taking any damage at all, and that's when we had both buffs active as you see in the gif.
Conclusion
Is this overpowered? Very hard to tell at this point, since keeping up 100% mitigation requires significant investment into resources as both buffs lasts a short time. Many sources of damage in the game also ignores block mitigation so this is not exactly immortality, and PvP-wise, the application of this can be really difficult as well.
Introduction
With the new changes to Immovable on Scalebreaker PTS, it is now possible to achieve 100% block mitigation on a sorcerer: meaning that you will not take any damage whilst blocking.
Theory
First, we consider the Block Mitigation formula provided by UESP:
BlockMitigation = 1 - (0.5)*(1 - Skill.BlockMitigation - Item.BlockMitigation - Set.BlockMitigation - Buff.BlockMitigation)
Which simplified, is just, 1-(0.5)*(Block mitigation percentage), and we see that if block mitigation percentage were to achieve 100%, we would not take any damage. This is now possible with Immovable giving us 35% block mitigation with 7 piece heavy armor on a sorcerer.
With 36% from Bound Armor, 35% from Immovable, 20% from the Sword and Board passive, 10% Defensive Stance, we are able to achieve 101% damage mitigation, 109% if we include Footman's Fortune, and this makes us immune to damage as long as we keep Bound Armor and Immovable up.
I then went into the game tested this formula on Saint Olms in vAS and from the footage as well as combat log I was able to gather, I can confirm that this works.
Testing
On a control test, we only spec into the necessary passives but do not use either Immovable nor Bound Armor, and only blocking against the St.Olms attack:
https://gfycat.com/physicalunlinedchipmunk
As expected, we get killed pretty fast by the steam breath attack, and the combat log confirms this:
https://imgur.com/OKmdYVf
As we see a significant amount of incoming damage from the steam breath attack (Scalding Roar)
However, as we now buff up with both Bound Armor and Immovable, we now observe that his breath attack no longer deal any damage:
https://gfycat.com/sleepyserpentinebagworm
As we open combat log, we confirm that this is a 100% damage mitigation, since we won't even see the damage event in the first place:
https://imgur.com/a/ryi5T89
We observe that there is only two damage event: At [5.219s], Saint Olms hits me with a Exhasutive Discharge for 4592 and at [13.084] Swipe for 40963 (which is what ended the fight). We see a period of 8 seconds when we are not taking any damage at all, and that's when we had both buffs active as you see in the gif.
Conclusion
Is this overpowered? Very hard to tell at this point, since keeping up 100% mitigation requires significant investment into resources as both buffs lasts a short time. Many sources of damage in the game also ignores block mitigation so this is not exactly immortality, and PvP-wise, the application of this can be really difficult as well.
25
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Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yup and @paulsimonps pointed this out over 2 weeks ago-
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6214838/#Comment_62148384 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Could be capped at 75% for a "fix" tho. Similar to speed nerf. I wanna try this in pvpEdited by Wuuffyy on July 31, 2019 4:59AMWuuffyy,
ESO player since 2014
-PM for questions0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Would still take resource while blocking too tho.Wuuffyy,
ESO player since 2014
-PM for questions4 -
TheUndeadAmulet✭✭✭✭✭Honestly, ZOS could easily just leave it in and it won't be much of an issue. It's not like its sustainable. At worst, It's cheese.
And I'm absolutely not saying this because my only tank is a Sorc Tank.XBOX NA 1000+ CP
nerf ping please5 -
zbzszzzt123✭✭✭TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »Honestly, ZOS could easily just leave it in and it won't be much of an issue. It's not like its sustainable. At worst, It's cheese.
And I'm absolutely not saying this because my only tank is a Sorc Tank.
It really wouldn't be overpowered at all in my opinion.
First, it doesn't ignore any hard wipe mechanics (as far as I can tell)
Secondly, as you said, it requires a huge amount of resources to sustain for a significant period of time. Immovable's block mitigation is tied to the CC immunity and last only a few seconds as opposed to 20 (this might be wrong, I haven't really looked into this, but from what I can tell, it's not the full 20 second duration), and bound armor only lasts for 3 seconds.
On the other hand, blocking mitigation being 100% means that you can forgo all other sorts of mitigation: resistance and minor/major maim/protection no longer matters.
3 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Possible outcomes if ZOS will notice:
- nerf all tanks (blocking mitigation cap at best, change to formula to be multiplicative with diminishing returns at worst)
- nerf sorc
- nerf immovable6 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yup yup, but as people pointed out its fairly expensive and you can't move while doing it. It has to be 7 heavy to hit the 100% mark so no moving for you. It also again requires that you block so its not like you can heavy attack or anything to regain resources. And so any decent amount of up time is out the window immediately. But in some PvE fights this will actually be really good for the Sorcs, if you can manage to time the two punch combo of Immovable-Bound Aegis in time then things like Olms Swipe, Warriors Channled Sweep(which correct me if I am wrong is still direct damage?), Rakkaths barrage is blockable too, so there are some good spots for it. So its really not THAT overpowered but I will say it would be funny to see someone manage their resources for a bit of time in PvP and see people rage at their enemy taking no damage outside of DoTs.
Remember though for people that want to use this, Immovable is 4 seconds and Bound Aegis is 3 so use Immovable first.
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nsmurfer✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler Maybe the block formula needs to become multiplicative again.2 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@paulsimonps wouldn't wearing footman's get you to 100% while blocking with 6 heavy? Mean, it is is only 5% movement speed but still.0 -
Tyrobag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"As long as we keep bound armor up", which would leave no time for attacks since it has a useless duration. Bound armor is meant to be used at the last second to block hard hitting attacks. Sure, if you dedicate 100% of your rotation to fortifying block you can do this, but you'll run out of stamina and do 0 damage.1 -
ChunkyCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can’t wait to see the forum posts from some poor new bro complaining about unkillable tanks in Cyrodiil.5 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »@paulsimonps wouldn't wearing footman's get you to 100% while blocking with 6 heavy? Mean, it is is only 5% movement speed but still.
true, it would.1 -
Jeezye✭✭✭✭✭Haha awesome catch.
Thx for pointing out, finally ZOS is forced to change that *** bound armor active and actually make it useful for builds other than broken PvE blockbuilds xD
I hope they don't change the block mitigation formula, it takes a ton to invest with lots of drawbacks and resource drain. Just rework bound armaments (again) and throw stamsorcs a bone while at it
! Edited by Jeezye on July 31, 2019 8:48PM3 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
LOL, sorc is indeed a special class...zbzszzzt123 wrote: »With the new changes to Immovable on Scalebreaker PTS, it is now possible to achieve 100% block mitigation on a sorcerer.
btw. Is it just me or sorc is the most popular class in eso ? I mean, they are the most vocal class on forums. Almost all re-balancing ideas (nerfs) like cast time on shields they were able to cry-off and turn into a buff...
1 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
LOL, sorc is indeed a special class...zbzszzzt123 wrote: »With the new changes to Immovable on Scalebreaker PTS, it is now possible to achieve 100% block mitigation on a sorcerer.
btw. Is it just me or sorc is the most popular class in eso ? I mean, they are the most vocal class on forums. Almost all re-balancing ideas (nerfs) like cast time on shields they were able to cry-off and turn into a buff...
Well, when you get bounded on everything you do, sometimes you have to pull your shot together. Everytime people ask for sorc nerf, zos nerf sorc. After patch goes live, sorcs find new way to be at the top again, people rage quite and ask for nerfs again. Been like this for 5 years now.0 -
No_Division✭✭✭don't just blanket nerf. Please look into ALL block mitigation or how the equation calculates block. Currently it gives you 50% block no matter what, and other additional sources get added together in a separate mitigation number. For example, sorc with bound ageis and snb will get 36+20 = 56% that follows the base 50% block.
This is one of the root causes for the "tank" meta in PVP, and sadly now resulting in PVE power creep mentioned above.0 -
frostz417✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"As long as we keep bound armor up", which would leave no time for attacks since it has a useless duration. Bound armor is meant to be used at the last second to block hard hitting attacks. Sure, if you dedicate 100% of your rotation to fortifying block you can do this, but you'll run out of stamina and do 0 damage.
Tanks aren’t supposed to deal damage.Edited by frostz417 on July 31, 2019 4:29PM1 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭As long as Magma/Corrosive exist then I literally do not see any issue with this.
Sorc barspace is cramped to begin with - most won't run both because it's totally unnecessary.0331
06024 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"As long as we keep bound armor up", which would leave no time for attacks since it has a useless duration. Bound armor is meant to be used at the last second to block hard hitting attacks. Sure, if you dedicate 100% of your rotation to fortifying block you can do this, but you'll run out of stamina and do 0 damage.
Tanks aren’t supposed to deal damage.
Tanks use heavy attacks to restore resources.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.2 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tanks aren’t supposed to deal damage.
Damage Dealers aren't supposed to take damage.
If you put on 5 Heavy, all skills with the word "damage" in them will be greyed out.
If you put on 5 Medium, your HP will drop to 1, and your resistances to 0.
Sounds great right?
Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast5 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Possible outcomes if ZOS will notice:
- nerf all tanks (blocking mitigation cap at best, change to formula to be multiplicative with diminishing returns at worst)
- nerf sorc
- nerf immovable
Definitely nerf sorc. They shall halve shields, halve critical surge healing, nerf crystal shards by 30% (because) and -69% damage on pets (oh, wait, they already have done that).Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If they decide to change any of these components, I hope it will be bound armor. I hate the active part of this ability so much, even as a pve tank. It is expensive, clunky and I think I can do something more useful and faster with the global cooldown.Edited by Dracane on August 1, 2019 5:43AMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.4 -
MaselClass Representativepaulsimonps wrote: »Yup yup, but as people pointed out its fairly expensive and you can't move while doing it. It has to be 7 heavy to hit the 100% mark so no moving for you. It also again requires that you block so its not like you can heavy attack or anything to regain resources. And so any decent amount of up time is out the window immediately. But in some PvE fights this will actually be really good for the Sorcs, if you can manage to time the two punch combo of Immovable-Bound Aegis in time then things like Olms Swipe, Warriors Channled Sweep(which correct me if I am wrong is still direct damage?), Rakkaths barrage is blockable too, so there are some good spots for it. So its really not THAT overpowered but I will say it would be funny to see someone manage their resources for a bit of time in PvP and see people rage at their enemy taking no damage outside of DoTs.
Remember though for people that want to use this, Immovable is 4 seconds and Bound Aegis is 3 so use Immovable first.
I actually reached 100% with 6 Heavy 1 light with footman. So you can indeed move while doing this
Edit: just saw it was mentioned above.Edited by Masel on August 1, 2019 7:12AMPC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA2 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »Yup yup, but as people pointed out its fairly expensive and you can't move while doing it. It has to be 7 heavy to hit the 100% mark so no moving for you. It also again requires that you block so its not like you can heavy attack or anything to regain resources. And so any decent amount of up time is out the window immediately. But in some PvE fights this will actually be really good for the Sorcs, if you can manage to time the two punch combo of Immovable-Bound Aegis in time then things like Olms Swipe, Warriors Channled Sweep(which correct me if I am wrong is still direct damage?), Rakkaths barrage is blockable too, so there are some good spots for it. So its really not THAT overpowered but I will say it would be funny to see someone manage their resources for a bit of time in PvP and see people rage at their enemy taking no damage outside of DoTs.
Remember though for people that want to use this, Immovable is 4 seconds and Bound Aegis is 3 so use Immovable first.
I actually reached 100% with 6 Heavy 1 light with footman. So you can indeed move while doing this
Edit: just saw it was mentioned above.
Well, you can always move with roll-dodge.
Now let's calculate for DK with footman and defensive position:
20+10(DK)+10(defensive slotted)+35(immovable)+8(footman)=83% base bonus block mitigation
*0.5 (block)*0.5(resistances)*0.9*0.8(CP)*0.95(aegis) = 0.2908 ~ 97.1% mitigation
W/o footman and defensive:
65% base bonus block mitigation *0.5 (block)*0.5(resistances)*0.9*0.8(CP)*0.95(aegis) = 0.59 ~ 94% mitigation
On live on typical build:
20+10=30% base bonus block mitigation*0.5 (block)*0.5(resistances)*0.9*0.8(CP)*0.95(aegis) = 0.1197 ~ 88% mitigation.
So using immovable in right moments cuts damage in half and if min-maxed you will have only 25% of what's incoming on live. If devs won't nerf it right now, sounds like fun. Even without footman we can build for extreme mitigation, which though eats ton of stamina and we'll lose magicka restore from balance...3 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »Yup yup, but as people pointed out its fairly expensive and you can't move while doing it. It has to be 7 heavy to hit the 100% mark so no moving for you. It also again requires that you block so its not like you can heavy attack or anything to regain resources. And so any decent amount of up time is out the window immediately. But in some PvE fights this will actually be really good for the Sorcs, if you can manage to time the two punch combo of Immovable-Bound Aegis in time then things like Olms Swipe, Warriors Channled Sweep(which correct me if I am wrong is still direct damage?), Rakkaths barrage is blockable too, so there are some good spots for it. So its really not THAT overpowered but I will say it would be funny to see someone manage their resources for a bit of time in PvP and see people rage at their enemy taking no damage outside of DoTs.
Remember though for people that want to use this, Immovable is 4 seconds and Bound Aegis is 3 so use Immovable first.
I actually reached 100% with 6 Heavy 1 light with footman. So you can indeed move while doing this
Edit: just saw it was mentioned above.
Well, you can always move with roll-dodge.
Now let's calculate for DK with footman and defensive position:
20+10(DK)+10(defensive slotted)+35(immovable)+8(footman)=83% base bonus block mitigation
*0.5 (block)*0.5(resistances)*0.9*0.8(CP)*0.95(aegis) = 0.2908 ~ 97.1% mitigation
W/o footman and defensive:
65% base bonus block mitigation *0.5 (block)*0.5(resistances)*0.9*0.8(CP)*0.95(aegis) = 0.59 ~ 94% mitigation
On live on typical build:
20+10=30% base bonus block mitigation*0.5 (block)*0.5(resistances)*0.9*0.8(CP)*0.95(aegis) = 0.1197 ~ 88% mitigation.
So using immovable in right moments cuts damage in half and if min-maxed you will have only 25% of what's incoming on live. If devs won't nerf it right now, sounds like fun. Even without footman we can build for extreme mitigation, which though eats ton of stamina and we'll lose magicka restore from balance...
6 heavy 1 light and then just use Streak 1 -
No_Division✭✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »Yup yup, but as people pointed out its fairly expensive and you can't move while doing it. It has to be 7 heavy to hit the 100% mark so no moving for you. It also again requires that you block so its not like you can heavy attack or anything to regain resources. And so any decent amount of up time is out the window immediately. But in some PvE fights this will actually be really good for the Sorcs, if you can manage to time the two punch combo of Immovable-Bound Aegis in time then things like Olms Swipe, Warriors Channled Sweep(which correct me if I am wrong is still direct damage?), Rakkaths barrage is blockable too, so there are some good spots for it. So its really not THAT overpowered but I will say it would be funny to see someone manage their resources for a bit of time in PvP and see people rage at their enemy taking no damage outside of DoTs.
Remember though for people that want to use this, Immovable is 4 seconds and Bound Aegis is 3 so use Immovable first.
I actually reached 100% with 6 Heavy 1 light with footman. So you can indeed move while doing this
Edit: just saw it was mentioned above.
Well, you can always move with roll-dodge.
Now let's calculate for DK with footman and defensive position:
20+10(DK)+10(defensive slotted)+35(immovable)+8(footman)=83% base bonus block mitigation
*0.5 (block)*0.5(resistances)*0.9*0.8(CP)*0.95(aegis) = 0.2908 ~ 97.1% mitigation
W/o footman and defensive:
65% base bonus block mitigation *0.5 (block)*0.5(resistances)*0.9*0.8(CP)*0.95(aegis) = 0.59 ~ 94% mitigation
On live on typical build:
20+10=30% base bonus block mitigation*0.5 (block)*0.5(resistances)*0.9*0.8(CP)*0.95(aegis) = 0.1197 ~ 88% mitigation.
So using immovable in right moments cuts damage in half and if min-maxed you will have only 25% of what's incoming on live. If devs won't nerf it right now, sounds like fun. Even without footman we can build for extreme mitigation, which though eats ton of stamina and we'll lose magicka restore from balance...
6 heavy 1 light and then just use Streak
why the complicated maths? Gap closers ignore self-buff snares/snares in general when used lol.0
