Power Surge and Crit Surge Balancing Idea (Poll)

  • Hotdog_23
    Hotdog_23
    ✭✭✭✭
    They need to be careful or they will make this skill to op. 33 seconds is a long time for a Aoe heal that travels with the the player. No other Aoe last that long outside of altars and they are stationary. Which means you don't have to waste GCD and resources recasting it.

    Plus if they give this a big range then I want a bigger range on the other AOE heals as well. Cinder storm is pathetic at 5 meters. Healing seed is 8 meters. Refreshing path is 17 meters but it is only a corridor not a circle. Enduring death is 8 meters. Cleaning ritual is 12 meter coat 50% more magic and only heals every 2 seconds. Springs is 8 meters.
  • Saril_Durzam
    Saril_Durzam
    ✭✭✭✭
    Nay
    jcm2606 wrote: »
    jcm2606 wrote: »
    jcm2606 wrote: »
    Humm dont get it. So you need to heal others first before getting the heal? It´s a lame heal, it would work only in Sorc healers who will be really far from meta.

    TBh, i´d rather change Power Surge.

    TWo morphs, one for stamina, other for magicka

    No Major Brutality/Sorcery, rather some resource sustains (stamina/magicka) every time you crit, and some heal aswell.

    Numbers could be around 2-2,5k health and 100 magicka/Stamina.

    This would work as selfheal and more important, some sustain to a class that really needs it.

    No, Major Sorcery/Brutality needs to remain on the skill, because it allows for diversity in PVP and, if someone doesn't want to run weapon/spell power potions, PVE. Look at stamDK, stamplar, stamblade or stamcro which don't have good sources of Major Brutality, they're pigeonholed into running 2H or weapon power pots for such a simple buff, while stamsorc can run Crit Surge, making DW/bow viable.

    Entrophy already gives it, and believe me, you will be using all the time, on Stamina and Magicka.

    So, which morph of Entropy gives Major Brutality, again?

    EDIT: Also, no stamina builds would ever use Entropy. Unlike the new Soul Trap, Entropy's DOT doesn't use your max resource, it just uses max magicka and spell damage. It'll hit very low for stamina, and stamina is going to have to juggle the new Soul Trap with their low max magicka pool.

    Just need to adapt Entrophy so it gives Major Brutality and scales with Stamina aswell. I cannot understand why ZoS dont make general skill true general skills.

    Because then there's no point in having all these skills. Build diversity gets thrown out the window, for pretty much no reason. While I do think stamina needs a decent generic source of Major Brutality that isn't tied to a particular weapon, I don't think shoehorning it into Entropy is a good idea.

    Then make it into another skill. Such buffs should be generic, as you said. Put such buffs in Soultrap,... anywhere. Just make such buffs general so it doesnt happen anymore that some classes need to depend on pots to get it.
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Hotdog_23 wrote: »
    They need to be careful or they will make this skill to op. 33 seconds is a long time for a Aoe heal that travels with the the player. No other Aoe last that long outside of altars and they are stationary. Which means you don't have to waste GCD and resources recasting it.

    Maybe they should turn power surge into a weaker ground aoe Version of surge instead. However, I‘m not an experienced healer so I can‘t really tell if that is what sorc healers need.
  • Saril_Durzam
    Saril_Durzam
    ✭✭✭✭
    Nay
    What Sorcs healers need?

    The idea that Sorc healers may be competitive in serious content.

    Cmon, half the forums are expressing that even classes with real healing skill lines like Warden or Templar wont be useful anymore, and we do care about Sorc healers, who were bad healers and unwanted healers before the patch?

    Sorc healers got what they needed. Vigor. So now Sorc healers can dedicate to what they´re supposed to do well, smelt faces.
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yay
    What Sorcs healers need?

    The idea that Sorc healers may be competitive in serious content.

    Cmon, half the forums are expressing that even classes with real healing skill lines like Warden or Templar wont be useful anymore, and we do care about Sorc healers, who were bad healers and unwanted healers before the patch?

    Sorc healers got what they needed. Vigor. So now Sorc healers can dedicate to what they´re supposed to do well, smelt faces.
    It's hard to take your comments and suggestions seriously when they have little interest for any other role but DD. Just because Sorc Healers are behind, doesn't mean ZOS should forget about them and only focus on DDs. Power Surge change is coming whether you like it or not and their intention is clear, but half baked, thus why I created a suggestion based on how it could function with their idea in mind. There are a ton of other things I'd change about Sorc's, but that isn't the point of this thread.

    The fact that you think a Sorc Healer has a hot because of Echoing Vigor shows how much you care.
    Started with PC Beta and PS4 Launch - 9xx CP

    Stam Sorc Redguard PvE Main || Stam Sorc Orc PvP Main || Stam DK Nord
    Stam Necro Orc BowBow || Stam Warden Wood Elf BowBow || Stam Blade Wood Elf BowBow


    Mag Sorc Breton || Mag Templar Breton
  • Saril_Durzam
    Saril_Durzam
    ✭✭✭✭
    Nay
    What Sorcs healers need?

    The idea that Sorc healers may be competitive in serious content.

    Cmon, half the forums are expressing that even classes with real healing skill lines like Warden or Templar wont be useful anymore, and we do care about Sorc healers, who were bad healers and unwanted healers before the patch?

    Sorc healers got what they needed. Vigor. So now Sorc healers can dedicate to what they´re supposed to do well, smelt faces.
    It's hard to take your comments and suggestions seriously when they have little interest for any other role but DD. Just because Sorc Healers are behind, doesn't mean ZOS should forget about them and only focus on DDs. Power Surge change is coming whether you like it or not and their intention is clear, but half baked, thus why I created a suggestion based on how it could function with their idea in mind. There are a ton of other things I'd change about Sorc's, but that isn't the point of this thread.

    The fact that you think a Sorc Healer has a hot because of Echoing Vigor shows how much you care.

    Listen. My main is a healer and I love healing, but considering the state of the game, of the healing and of the Sorcerer class, it would be naive to try to get now a very little buff for Sorc healers.

    Healers are dead, and no Templar or Warden healers are more than dead. Its not anything i want but the game its how it is.

    Are you playing a Sorc healer? You will not after the patch, unless you do on pugs who care zero, on easy content where another DD would be way more useful, or with friends. Its a statement. You will hindrance your party if you do.

    Futhermore, magSorc DDs will also be lacking in some aspects which will make them less desirable than ever. The class will be behind many classes.

    If i have to buff one aspect of the Sorc, I will do magsorc DD. Im sorry if you play healer. I al really sorry. And ofc i will not want you on my trials or group content. Wish this didnt happen but we are on a dire time and the class need better sustain, self healing and survability to be toying with subpar specs.

    If you want, present a full tool of sorc skills to make sorc healers fine to play. I will applaud it.

    PS: im not the only want to not to want your change. Check the poll, you have few support. Im making the effort of explaining the reasoks why its not a good idea.
    Edited by Saril_Durzam on July 31, 2019 4:36PM
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yay
    Hotdog_23 wrote: »
    They need to be careful or they will make this skill to op. 33 seconds is a long time for a Aoe heal that travels with the the player. No other Aoe last that long outside of altars and they are stationary. Which means you don't have to waste GCD and resources recasting it.

    Maybe they should turn power surge into a weaker ground aoe Version of surge instead. However, I‘m not an experienced healer so I can‘t really tell if that is what sorc healers need.

    A ground targeted aoe hot would of made the most sense, but I don't think that's a great idea for Power Surge and we may be past the point for that suggestion.

    I think most people would agree that Encase and Morphs are barely used by anyone in the game and could of been changed to fit the Healer/Tank roles.

    Restraining Prison in comparison to Dark Talons is behind for tanks. The range is in front of the caster making the targeting for any tank hard to use. This morph could of been changed to a radius around the caster like Dark Talons. Maybe another benefit would be useful since it doesn't offer a Synergy, but Major Vitality on demand is pretty strong.

    Shattering Prison just adds some small damage and is very underwhelming. This morph could keep the range in front of the caster, but as a circle hot. I'm not sure what other utility the skill could offer, but by having an aoe hot from this skill line, you offer healers a way of actually providing Minor Prophecy to their group. Power Surge doesn't help fix that and bar space is limited for healers to slot Dark Conversion or Shattering prison for a healer, the only semi useful abilities to them.
    Started with PC Beta and PS4 Launch - 9xx CP

    Stam Sorc Redguard PvE Main || Stam Sorc Orc PvP Main || Stam DK Nord
    Stam Necro Orc BowBow || Stam Warden Wood Elf BowBow || Stam Blade Wood Elf BowBow


    Mag Sorc Breton || Mag Templar Breton
  • Saril_Durzam
    Saril_Durzam
    ✭✭✭✭
    Nay
    If ZoS put zero healing skill line for some classes, maybe it´s a hint that they´re not really thought for healers... Yeha i know the ESO mantra "any class any race any role" but at the end, we all know that´s not true. You won´t see any NB healer, not even a DK healer.

    Sorc healers wont be competitive. Sure, you can slot a Resto staff and heal easy content, but the skill lines of the Sorc are mainly done for one thing: to deal damage.

    It happens the same with tank, actually. Sorc tanks wont ever reach the excellence of DK tanks. Nor warden, not even Templars or NBs. The class is not built with tanking in mind. Sure, the class has its tricks, but for serious effort, there is just one role for Sorcerers: Damage Dealers. You can play subpar tanks or healers but that´s all. The moment you accept this is the moment you will see the reality.
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yay
    What Sorcs healers need?

    The idea that Sorc healers may be competitive in serious content.

    Cmon, half the forums are expressing that even classes with real healing skill lines like Warden or Templar wont be useful anymore, and we do care about Sorc healers, who were bad healers and unwanted healers before the patch?

    Sorc healers got what they needed. Vigor. So now Sorc healers can dedicate to what they´re supposed to do well, smelt faces.
    It's hard to take your comments and suggestions seriously when they have little interest for any other role but DD. Just because Sorc Healers are behind, doesn't mean ZOS should forget about them and only focus on DDs. Power Surge change is coming whether you like it or not and their intention is clear, but half baked, thus why I created a suggestion based on how it could function with their idea in mind. There are a ton of other things I'd change about Sorc's, but that isn't the point of this thread.

    The fact that you think a Sorc Healer has a hot because of Echoing Vigor shows how much you care.

    Listen. My main is a healer and I love healing, but considering the state of the game, of the healing and of the Sorcerer class, it would be naive to try to get now a very little buff for Sorc healers.

    Healers are dead, and no Templar or Warden healers are more than dead. Its not anything i want but the game its how it is.

    Are you playing a Sorc healer? You will not after the patch, unless you do on pugs who care zero, on easy content where another DD would be way more useful, or with friends. Its a statement. You will hindrance your party if you do.

    Futhermore, magSorc DDs will also be lacking in some aspects which will make them less desirable than ever. The class will be behind many classes.

    If i have to buff one aspect of the Sorc, I will do magsorc DD. Im sorry if you play healer. I al really sorry. And ofc i will not want you on my trials or group content. Wish this didnt happen but we are on a dire time and the class need better sustain, self healing and survability to be toying with subpar specs.

    If you want, present a full tool of sorc skills to make sorc healers fine to play. I will applaud it.

    PS: im not the only want to not to want your change. Check the poll, you have few support. Im making the effort of explaining the reasoks why its not a good idea.

    I'll have to agree to disagree then. I do not believe in forgetting 1 aspect of the class to focus on another. It's bad enough that out of 30 class skills (many morphs completely unused), 6 ultimate's and 12 passives for Sorc's, most of them designed for Magicka Sorc's which is design relic of the original game design. The game has changed over time and the class needs a complete overhaul, but once again, completely besides the point of my thread.

    The fact that people don't overwhelmingly agree doesn't bother me, because people like yourself don't agree with the idea of Power Surge being for healers at all, thus a lot of the Nay's I've seen so far. I would of went a completely different direction with giving Sorc healers a useful hot instead of Power Surge.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on July 31, 2019 5:00PM
    Started with PC Beta and PS4 Launch - 9xx CP

    Stam Sorc Redguard PvE Main || Stam Sorc Orc PvP Main || Stam DK Nord
    Stam Necro Orc BowBow || Stam Warden Wood Elf BowBow || Stam Blade Wood Elf BowBow


    Mag Sorc Breton || Mag Templar Breton
  • Saril_Durzam
    Saril_Durzam
    ✭✭✭✭
    Nay
    What Sorcs healers need?

    The idea that Sorc healers may be competitive in serious content.

    Cmon, half the forums are expressing that even classes with real healing skill lines like Warden or Templar wont be useful anymore, and we do care about Sorc healers, who were bad healers and unwanted healers before the patch?

    Sorc healers got what they needed. Vigor. So now Sorc healers can dedicate to what they´re supposed to do well, smelt faces.
    It's hard to take your comments and suggestions seriously when they have little interest for any other role but DD. Just because Sorc Healers are behind, doesn't mean ZOS should forget about them and only focus on DDs. Power Surge change is coming whether you like it or not and their intention is clear, but half baked, thus why I created a suggestion based on how it could function with their idea in mind. There are a ton of other things I'd change about Sorc's, but that isn't the point of this thread.

    The fact that you think a Sorc Healer has a hot because of Echoing Vigor shows how much you care.

    Listen. My main is a healer and I love healing, but considering the state of the game, of the healing and of the Sorcerer class, it would be naive to try to get now a very little buff for Sorc healers.

    Healers are dead, and no Templar or Warden healers are more than dead. Its not anything i want but the game its how it is.

    Are you playing a Sorc healer? You will not after the patch, unless you do on pugs who care zero, on easy content where another DD would be way more useful, or with friends. Its a statement. You will hindrance your party if you do.

    Futhermore, magSorc DDs will also be lacking in some aspects which will make them less desirable than ever. The class will be behind many classes.

    If i have to buff one aspect of the Sorc, I will do magsorc DD. Im sorry if you play healer. I al really sorry. And ofc i will not want you on my trials or group content. Wish this didnt happen but we are on a dire time and the class need better sustain, self healing and survability to be toying with subpar specs.

    If you want, present a full tool of sorc skills to make sorc healers fine to play. I will applaud it.

    PS: im not the only want to not to want your change. Check the poll, you have few support. Im making the effort of explaining the reasoks why its not a good idea.

    I'll have to agree to disagree then. I do not believe in forgetting 1 aspect of the class to focus on another. It's bad enough that out of 30 class skills (many morphs completely unused), 6 ultimate's and 12 passives for Sorc's, most of them designed for Magicka Sorc's which is design relic of the original game design. The game has changed over time and the class needs a complete overhaul, but once again, completely besides the point of my thread.

    The fact that people don't overwhelmingly agree doesn't bother me, because people like yourself don't agree with the idea of Power Surge being for healers at all, thus a lot of the Nay's I've seen so far. I would of went a completely different direction with giving Sorc healers a useful hot instead of Power Surge.

    Well, that happens with first classes. From Warden, one skill line goes for damage, other for healing and other for tanking. Sure, it would be great if that would change but has been stated that isnt going to happen.

    So leave with Sorc being what it is, the same as DK, as NB or as Templar.
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yay
    What Sorcs healers need?

    The idea that Sorc healers may be competitive in serious content.

    Cmon, half the forums are expressing that even classes with real healing skill lines like Warden or Templar wont be useful anymore, and we do care about Sorc healers, who were bad healers and unwanted healers before the patch?

    Sorc healers got what they needed. Vigor. So now Sorc healers can dedicate to what they´re supposed to do well, smelt faces.
    It's hard to take your comments and suggestions seriously when they have little interest for any other role but DD. Just because Sorc Healers are behind, doesn't mean ZOS should forget about them and only focus on DDs. Power Surge change is coming whether you like it or not and their intention is clear, but half baked, thus why I created a suggestion based on how it could function with their idea in mind. There are a ton of other things I'd change about Sorc's, but that isn't the point of this thread.

    The fact that you think a Sorc Healer has a hot because of Echoing Vigor shows how much you care.

    Listen. My main is a healer and I love healing, but considering the state of the game, of the healing and of the Sorcerer class, it would be naive to try to get now a very little buff for Sorc healers.

    Healers are dead, and no Templar or Warden healers are more than dead. Its not anything i want but the game its how it is.

    Are you playing a Sorc healer? You will not after the patch, unless you do on pugs who care zero, on easy content where another DD would be way more useful, or with friends. Its a statement. You will hindrance your party if you do.

    Futhermore, magSorc DDs will also be lacking in some aspects which will make them less desirable than ever. The class will be behind many classes.

    If i have to buff one aspect of the Sorc, I will do magsorc DD. Im sorry if you play healer. I al really sorry. And ofc i will not want you on my trials or group content. Wish this didnt happen but we are on a dire time and the class need better sustain, self healing and survability to be toying with subpar specs.

    If you want, present a full tool of sorc skills to make sorc healers fine to play. I will applaud it.

    PS: im not the only want to not to want your change. Check the poll, you have few support. Im making the effort of explaining the reasoks why its not a good idea.

    I'll have to agree to disagree then. I do not believe in forgetting 1 aspect of the class to focus on another. It's bad enough that out of 30 class skills (many morphs completely unused), 6 ultimate's and 12 passives for Sorc's, most of them designed for Magicka Sorc's which is design relic of the original game design. The game has changed over time and the class needs a complete overhaul, but once again, completely besides the point of my thread.

    The fact that people don't overwhelmingly agree doesn't bother me, because people like yourself don't agree with the idea of Power Surge being for healers at all, thus a lot of the Nay's I've seen so far. I would of went a completely different direction with giving Sorc healers a useful hot instead of Power Surge.

    Well, that happens with first classes. From Warden, one skill line goes for damage, other for healing and other for tanking. Sure, it would be great if that would change but has been stated that isnt going to happen.

    So leave with Sorc being what it is, the same as DK, as NB or as Templar.

    Then I disagree completely and there's nothing more to say.

    For the record, I do not play a Sorc Healer.
    Started with PC Beta and PS4 Launch - 9xx CP

    Stam Sorc Redguard PvE Main || Stam Sorc Orc PvP Main || Stam DK Nord
    Stam Necro Orc BowBow || Stam Warden Wood Elf BowBow || Stam Blade Wood Elf BowBow


    Mag Sorc Breton || Mag Templar Breton
  • Saril_Durzam
    Saril_Durzam
    ✭✭✭✭
    Nay
    Youre not disagreeing with me, youre doing it with ZoS.

    If you dont play sorc healer, dont worry, almost noone does. Still, i dont understand why you try to do this then.Makes few sense to me.
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yay
    Youre not disagreeing with me, youre doing it with ZoS.

    If you dont play sorc healer, dont worry, almost noone does. Still, i dont understand why you try to do this then.Makes few sense to me.

    No, I'm pretty sure I disagree with you.

    Is it that hard to understand that I want other people to have an enjoyable time in their role?
    Started with PC Beta and PS4 Launch - 9xx CP

    Stam Sorc Redguard PvE Main || Stam Sorc Orc PvP Main || Stam DK Nord
    Stam Necro Orc BowBow || Stam Warden Wood Elf BowBow || Stam Blade Wood Elf BowBow


    Mag Sorc Breton || Mag Templar Breton
  • Saril_Durzam
    Saril_Durzam
    ✭✭✭✭
    Nay
    Yeah, hard to understand because that´s not what a Sorc healer needs. I, contrary to you, play a main healer and your solution doesnt help on healing role nor to mag sorcs, which i also play, btw.

    And yeah, you´re disagreeing with ZoS which is who made 3 skill lines and zero for healing role. I didnt design that, it was ZoS.
  • xaraan
    xaraan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Yay
    The current PTS change for surge is too strong. It gives yet another reason to not have a healer, just have a sorc with surge running in group doing damage and get passive 2-3K heals a second, b/c you will crit that often with all your damage.

    They should tie one morph to healing only crits, this makes it not useless for a dps to try and offer bonus heals if they want, as they can vigor or throw rune down for a change to crit heal, but wont' be a constant proc every second you crit. And will be a huge healing bonus for an actual healer - which is what a sorc healer wants when they ask for healing for sorcs (not the ability for any sorc DD to do their job). But a healer using this version would have a variety of heals going out and have multiple chances to constantly proc it.

    It should also center on whoever recieves the crit heal and not the caster, This again would make it benefit a healer and probably not have a huge effect on if a DD tried to use it.

    But leave the other morph as the selfish version to proc on all crit damage and be a good self heal, have it buff both magicka builds and stam builds.

    Of course, these ideas make it balanced and not OP, so some won't like that.
    Xaraan • NA • PC • AD
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  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yay
    xaraan wrote: »
    The current PTS change for surge is too strong. It gives yet another reason to not have a healer, just have a sorc with surge running in group doing damage and get passive 2-3K heals a second, b/c you will crit that often with all your damage.

    They should tie one morph to healing only crits, this makes it not useless for a dps to try and offer bonus heals if they want, as they can vigor or throw rune down for a change to crit heal, but wont' be a constant proc every second you crit. And will be a huge healing bonus for an actual healer - which is what a sorc healer wants when they ask for healing for sorcs (not the ability for any sorc DD to do their job). But a healer using this version would have a variety of heals going out and have multiple chances to constantly proc it.

    It should also center on whoever recieves the crit heal and not the caster, This again would make it benefit a healer and probably not have a huge effect on if a DD tried to use it.

    But leave the other morph as the selfish version to proc on all crit damage and be a good self heal, have it buff both magicka builds and stam builds.

    Of course, these ideas make it balanced and not OP, so some won't like that.

    Thank you for going back on subject. That was exactly my intention with the suggestions.

    I don't expect the poll to do very well by design when people want 1 of 4 things
    1. Don't like ZOS's idea for Power Surge (It's coming, lets make sure it works as intended)
    2. Don't care for the interest of Sorc Healers (As seen in previous comments)
    3. Don't want to lose access to an aoe heal for Sorc DD (They hide in the shadows :D )
    4. Don't agree with my solution (Completely valid obviously)

    Maybe an other category would of been smarter, but then I would get most of the poll flooded by people type A, because even I would of went with a different skill for healers.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on July 31, 2019 6:28PM
    Started with PC Beta and PS4 Launch - 9xx CP

    Stam Sorc Redguard PvE Main || Stam Sorc Orc PvP Main || Stam DK Nord
    Stam Necro Orc BowBow || Stam Warden Wood Elf BowBow || Stam Blade Wood Elf BowBow


    Mag Sorc Breton || Mag Templar Breton
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