Littlebluelizard wrote: »You're ignoring that they buffed Vigor (by a *** lot) and rapid regen, everyone will still have answers for dots. Also (in CP) damage is not out of control, everyone is so *** tanky that buffing dots is actually a smart idea imo.
brandonv516 wrote: »With 2 patches left on the PTS, I think it's going to happen.
Even though I play a class that can negate DoTs, I still fear we are going to see an insane amount of damage from certain builds.
The last two patches will likely refine housing, crown store, events, quest dialogue issues, etc. Nothing really important basically.
UppGRAYxDD wrote: »DoTs + Onslaught = Profit....
Onslaught:
The Physical and Spell Penetration from this ability now only apply to Direct Damage or channeled attacks like Flurry.
Reduced the final duration to 12 seconds from 16 seconds.
Developer Comment:
These changes were done to reduce situations where you could simply stack multiple Damage over Time effects on an enemy, activate this ability (or Corrosive Armor) and freely reap the benefits of ignoring a target’s mitigation. The power goal of these abilities are meant to empower you to smash your opponent to bits, rather than speed up the process of slowly killing them. Please note that some item sets have not received an audit (yet) to properly flag them as Direct Damage or Damage over Time, and may behave strangely with this mechanism.
Littlebluelizard wrote: »You're ignoring that they buffed Vigor (by a *** lot) and rapid regen, everyone will still have answers for dots. Also (in CP) damage is not out of control, everyone is so *** tanky that buffing dots is actually a smart idea imo.
Except s&b is gone (not completely but it won't be meta), pirate skele is gone, protective will be way worse etc. Onslaught exists so resists will less attractive.
And by the way entropy tooltips can easily reach around 24k, soul trap was like 22k. With fetcher that's about 76k damage over 10 seconds with major breach and minor vuln. So I wonder if I do shalk + ele weapon + clench spam how well you will fare with those three DoTs ticking.
Also how is it smart to buff healing? I just said that, to kill someone with that amount of healing, I need to run dots to have a chance at killing them. If I don't, I simply won't be able to kill them. So they've literally just forced everyone to run DoTs and it kills HoT healing in an outnumbered situation. Even in a duel it's apparent.
Littlebluelizard wrote: »You're ignoring that they buffed Vigor (by a *** lot) and rapid regen, everyone will still have answers for dots. Also (in CP) damage is not out of control, everyone is so *** tanky that buffing dots is actually a smart idea imo.
Except s&b is gone (not completely but it won't be meta), pirate skele is gone, protective will be way worse etc. Onslaught exists so resists will less attractive.
And by the way entropy tooltips can easily reach around 24k, soul trap was like 22k. With fetcher that's about 76k damage over 10 seconds with major breach and minor vuln. So I wonder if I do shalk + ele weapon + clench spam how well you will fare with those three DoTs ticking.
Also how is it smart to buff healing? I just said that, to kill someone with that amount of healing, I need to run dots to have a chance at killing them. If I don't, I simply won't be able to kill them. So they've literally just forced everyone to run DoTs and it kills HoT healing in an outnumbered situation. Even in a duel it's apparent.
Wolf_Watching wrote: »
Littlebluelizard wrote: »You're ignoring that they buffed Vigor (by a *** lot) and rapid regen, everyone will still have answers for dots. Also (in CP) damage is not out of control, everyone is so *** tanky that buffing dots is actually a smart idea imo.
I don't want to be alarmist in my post, but it's actually startling how no one has talked much about the impact of dots in PvP in the upcoming patch.
If you're not aware, the following DOTS are buffed next patch:
Entropy: Increased the damage from all morphs by approximately 220%.
Soul Trap: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 161%.
Twin Slashes: Increased the Damage over Time from this ability and its morphs by approximately 37%. (but bleeds don't ignore armor)
Poison Arrow: Increased the damage over time portion on all morphs by approximately 78% per tick.
For the most part, most of the class DoTs (Vamp's Bane, Cripple, Fetcher) were buffed by roughly 17%.
Now it may look like some nice small buffs to dots, since ZOS is also nerfing ground AOEs to make PVE less static supposedly. So to balance that, single-target dots were buffed. This seems like a massive oversight in PvP. Now the total damage incoming is going to be way higher whereas the single-target DIRECT DAMAGE is exactly the same as it was before.
Why would you buff dot pressure, though? The damage in PvP has already gotten progressively ramped up over the years, and the methods of mitigating them have become less available or viable. And it takes no effort to keep up dots. Many builds still use entropy for Major Sorcery so it's going to become an ever bigger pick.
It's gotten to the point in duels where your opponent will dot you, you go full offensive, but if your class doesn't have offensive healing going, you'll just melt to pressure. How is that fair in any way? You literally get punished for attacking your opponent when he is spamming heals. What are the reprecussions in open world PvP, if it's already ridiculous pressure out of thin air?
It's not like a DOT build is only going to use burst and nothing else. It's going to use the same offensive burst as it would in a live build, except its pressure will skyrocket by stacking dots. If your class has no answer to DOTs (cloak, purge, etc.), you simply will find solo hellish. Not to mention if you're getting outnumbered, more dots will be stacked by multiple people. Not to mention some classes (magDK cough) simply don't have an answer to DoT stacking.
And then you might wonder: "What about the self-healing buffs?" The thing is, the healing buffs aren't the answer. You're still going to take obscene damage in an outnumbered scenario, and dots will keep your HoT healing down. Defile becomes inflated in power (from stam blastbones, snipe, soul harvest, etc.) because it's reducing more healing Plus how is pigeon-holing Magicka into running resto back-bar good design? And if you're not running dots, everyone will outheal your damage easily. So you've basically forced people to run one or two DoTs on every build to stand a chance against the new healing changes.
As a final example, this is my tooltip on fetcher next patch (magden).
For the record it's about 19K-20K on live with the same build. I'm running an open world setup with necro/lich with decent sustain.
You cannot allow this to hit live.
DarkGottbeard wrote: »I don't want to be alarmist in my post, but it's actually startling how no one has talked much about the impact of dots in PvP in the upcoming patch.
If you're not aware, the following DOTS are buffed next patch:
Entropy: Increased the damage from all morphs by approximately 220%.
Soul Trap: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 161%.
Twin Slashes: Increased the Damage over Time from this ability and its morphs by approximately 37%. (but bleeds don't ignore armor)
Poison Arrow: Increased the damage over time portion on all morphs by approximately 78% per tick.
For the most part, most of the class DoTs (Vamp's Bane, Cripple, Fetcher) were buffed by roughly 17%.
Now it may look like some nice small buffs to dots, since ZOS is also nerfing ground AOEs to make PVE less static supposedly. So to balance that, single-target dots were buffed. This seems like a massive oversight in PvP. Now the total damage incoming is going to be way higher whereas the single-target DIRECT DAMAGE is exactly the same as it was before.
Why would you buff dot pressure, though? The damage in PvP has already gotten progressively ramped up over the years, and the methods of mitigating them have become less available or viable. And it takes no effort to keep up dots. Many builds still use entropy for Major Sorcery so it's going to become an ever bigger pick.
It's gotten to the point in duels where your opponent will dot you, you go full offensive, but if your class doesn't have offensive healing going, you'll just melt to pressure. How is that fair in any way? You literally get punished for attacking your opponent when he is spamming heals. What are the reprecussions in open world PvP, if it's already ridiculous pressure out of thin air?
It's not like a DOT build is only going to use burst and nothing else. It's going to use the same offensive burst as it would in a live build, except its pressure will skyrocket by stacking dots. If your class has no answer to DOTs (cloak, purge, etc.), you simply will find solo hellish. Not to mention if you're getting outnumbered, more dots will be stacked by multiple people. Not to mention some classes (magDK cough) simply don't have an answer to DoT stacking.
And then you might wonder: "What about the self-healing buffs?" The thing is, the healing buffs aren't the answer. You're still going to take obscene damage in an outnumbered scenario, and dots will keep your HoT healing down. Defile becomes inflated in power (from stam blastbones, snipe, soul harvest, etc.) because it's reducing more healing Plus how is pigeon-holing Magicka into running resto back-bar good design? And if you're not running dots, everyone will outheal your damage easily. So you've basically forced people to run one or two DoTs on every build to stand a chance against the new healing changes.
As a final example, this is my tooltip on fetcher next patch (magden).
For the record it's about 19K-20K on live with the same build. I'm running an open world setup with necro/lich with decent sustain.
You cannot allow this to hit live.
I mean what is the point of talking about it. Majority of the game loves dots. ZoS designs to the majority.
agree.
but then again, on PTS, my stamDK has Vigor (no Major Mending) at nearly 30k in 5 sec.....
No_Division wrote: »Littlebluelizard wrote: »You're ignoring that they buffed Vigor (by a *** lot) and rapid regen, everyone will still have answers for dots. Also (in CP) damage is not out of control, everyone is so *** tanky that buffing dots is actually a smart idea imo.
Except s&b is gone (not completely but it won't be meta), pirate skele is gone, protective will be way worse etc. Onslaught exists so resists will less attractive.
And by the way entropy tooltips can easily reach around 24k, soul trap was like 22k. With fetcher that's about 76k damage over 10 seconds with major breach and minor vuln. So I wonder if I do shalk + ele weapon + clench spam how well you will fare with those three DoTs ticking.
Also how is it smart to buff healing? I just said that, to kill someone with that amount of healing, I need to run dots to have a chance at killing them. If I don't, I simply won't be able to kill them. So they've literally just forced everyone to run DoTs and it kills HoT healing in an outnumbered situation. Even in a duel it's apparent.
2s dot ticks. So 24k tooltip is really hitting for 5 ticks (10s duration) so 4800 per tick. Tack on battlespirit, basic CP and enough armor to keep 10% after penetration and you'll have 1555 every 2s for a total of 7776 dmg. That seems to be in line with every dot available. Though some dots are under (reflective light) but have different utility.
DarkGottbeard wrote: »I don't want to be alarmist in my post, but it's actually startling how no one has talked much about the impact of dots in PvP in the upcoming patch.
If you're not aware, the following DOTS are buffed next patch:
Entropy: Increased the damage from all morphs by approximately 220%.
Soul Trap: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 161%.
Twin Slashes: Increased the Damage over Time from this ability and its morphs by approximately 37%. (but bleeds don't ignore armor)
Poison Arrow: Increased the damage over time portion on all morphs by approximately 78% per tick.
For the most part, most of the class DoTs (Vamp's Bane, Cripple, Fetcher) were buffed by roughly 17%.
Now it may look like some nice small buffs to dots, since ZOS is also nerfing ground AOEs to make PVE less static supposedly. So to balance that, single-target dots were buffed. This seems like a massive oversight in PvP. Now the total damage incoming is going to be way higher whereas the single-target DIRECT DAMAGE is exactly the same as it was before.
Why would you buff dot pressure, though? The damage in PvP has already gotten progressively ramped up over the years, and the methods of mitigating them have become less available or viable. And it takes no effort to keep up dots. Many builds still use entropy for Major Sorcery so it's going to become an ever bigger pick.
It's gotten to the point in duels where your opponent will dot you, you go full offensive, but if your class doesn't have offensive healing going, you'll just melt to pressure. How is that fair in any way? You literally get punished for attacking your opponent when he is spamming heals. What are the reprecussions in open world PvP, if it's already ridiculous pressure out of thin air?
It's not like a DOT build is only going to use burst and nothing else. It's going to use the same offensive burst as it would in a live build, except its pressure will skyrocket by stacking dots. If your class has no answer to DOTs (cloak, purge, etc.), you simply will find solo hellish. Not to mention if you're getting outnumbered, more dots will be stacked by multiple people. Not to mention some classes (magDK cough) simply don't have an answer to DoT stacking.
And then you might wonder: "What about the self-healing buffs?" The thing is, the healing buffs aren't the answer. You're still going to take obscene damage in an outnumbered scenario, and dots will keep your HoT healing down. Defile becomes inflated in power (from stam blastbones, snipe, soul harvest, etc.) because it's reducing more healing Plus how is pigeon-holing Magicka into running resto back-bar good design? And if you're not running dots, everyone will outheal your damage easily. So you've basically forced people to run one or two DoTs on every build to stand a chance against the new healing changes.
As a final example, this is my tooltip on fetcher next patch (magden).
For the record it's about 19K-20K on live with the same build. I'm running an open world setup with necro/lich with decent sustain.
You cannot allow this to hit live.
I mean what is the point of talking about it. Majority of the game loves dots. ZoS designs to the majority.
Point taken. Where the streamers complain about boring rotations, average players have a much slower, easier rotation because dots have a 10 second cool down basically. Clipping your dot is not as punishing to your dps as messing up an instant damage weave rotation, and the dots continue to tick while they run around avoiding red.
If ZOS wants to make changes to the "generic" magicka DOTs, I hope it accompanies some big changes to the Necromancer class. This new "DOT Meta" is the only way Magicka Necromancer gets any viable offense right now; the toolkit available through class skills and the live-version of generic magicka skills just doesn't cut it.
They've been needing to do something to make Entropy more worthwhile for a long time, as it's vastly inferior to Major Brutality options on live. So if it's not going to be a worthwhile DOT, it needs to do something else that makes it better than nothing but 20 seconds worth of Major Sorcery. Then maybe change some of the Necromancer class abilities to be DOTs that are actually worth using, so that the +10% DOT Damage class passive is something other than a bleed-damage buff for Stamina Necromancers.
No_Division wrote: »Littlebluelizard wrote: »You're ignoring that they buffed Vigor (by a *** lot) and rapid regen, everyone will still have answers for dots. Also (in CP) damage is not out of control, everyone is so *** tanky that buffing dots is actually a smart idea imo.
Except s&b is gone (not completely but it won't be meta), pirate skele is gone, protective will be way worse etc. Onslaught exists so resists will less attractive.
And by the way entropy tooltips can easily reach around 24k, soul trap was like 22k. With fetcher that's about 76k damage over 10 seconds with major breach and minor vuln. So I wonder if I do shalk + ele weapon + clench spam how well you will fare with those three DoTs ticking.
Also how is it smart to buff healing? I just said that, to kill someone with that amount of healing, I need to run dots to have a chance at killing them. If I don't, I simply won't be able to kill them. So they've literally just forced everyone to run DoTs and it kills HoT healing in an outnumbered situation. Even in a duel it's apparent.
2s dot ticks. So 24k tooltip is really hitting for 5 ticks (10s duration) so 4800 per tick. Tack on battlespirit, basic CP and enough armor to keep 10% after penetration and you'll have 1555 every 2s for a total of 7776 dmg. That seems to be in line with every dot available. Though some dots are under (reflective light) but have different utility.
it's in line with every dot available, but in the past the only way to stack multiple high damage dots was to get into melee range and do it with a class dot and some bleeds.
now mag can do it from range with three very high damage dots. this is a completely different situation than we have on live.
then you can throw a class dot (or two) on top of entropy, soul trap, and destructive touch.
we'll have situations in BGs where if you're melee, you get within 28m of the other team and you get 3-4 sets of these dots dropped on you with no real counterplay available. your vigor isn't gonna save you then.DarkGottbeard wrote: »I don't want to be alarmist in my post, but it's actually startling how no one has talked much about the impact of dots in PvP in the upcoming patch.
If you're not aware, the following DOTS are buffed next patch:
Entropy: Increased the damage from all morphs by approximately 220%.
Soul Trap: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 161%.
Twin Slashes: Increased the Damage over Time from this ability and its morphs by approximately 37%. (but bleeds don't ignore armor)
Poison Arrow: Increased the damage over time portion on all morphs by approximately 78% per tick.
For the most part, most of the class DoTs (Vamp's Bane, Cripple, Fetcher) were buffed by roughly 17%.
Now it may look like some nice small buffs to dots, since ZOS is also nerfing ground AOEs to make PVE less static supposedly. So to balance that, single-target dots were buffed. This seems like a massive oversight in PvP. Now the total damage incoming is going to be way higher whereas the single-target DIRECT DAMAGE is exactly the same as it was before.
Why would you buff dot pressure, though? The damage in PvP has already gotten progressively ramped up over the years, and the methods of mitigating them have become less available or viable. And it takes no effort to keep up dots. Many builds still use entropy for Major Sorcery so it's going to become an ever bigger pick.
It's gotten to the point in duels where your opponent will dot you, you go full offensive, but if your class doesn't have offensive healing going, you'll just melt to pressure. How is that fair in any way? You literally get punished for attacking your opponent when he is spamming heals. What are the reprecussions in open world PvP, if it's already ridiculous pressure out of thin air?
It's not like a DOT build is only going to use burst and nothing else. It's going to use the same offensive burst as it would in a live build, except its pressure will skyrocket by stacking dots. If your class has no answer to DOTs (cloak, purge, etc.), you simply will find solo hellish. Not to mention if you're getting outnumbered, more dots will be stacked by multiple people. Not to mention some classes (magDK cough) simply don't have an answer to DoT stacking.
And then you might wonder: "What about the self-healing buffs?" The thing is, the healing buffs aren't the answer. You're still going to take obscene damage in an outnumbered scenario, and dots will keep your HoT healing down. Defile becomes inflated in power (from stam blastbones, snipe, soul harvest, etc.) because it's reducing more healing Plus how is pigeon-holing Magicka into running resto back-bar good design? And if you're not running dots, everyone will outheal your damage easily. So you've basically forced people to run one or two DoTs on every build to stand a chance against the new healing changes.
As a final example, this is my tooltip on fetcher next patch (magden).
For the record it's about 19K-20K on live with the same build. I'm running an open world setup with necro/lich with decent sustain.
You cannot allow this to hit live.
I mean what is the point of talking about it. Majority of the game loves dots. ZoS designs to the majority.
Point taken. Where the streamers complain about boring rotations, average players have a much slower, easier rotation because dots have a 10 second cool down basically. Clipping your dot is not as punishing to your dps as messing up an instant damage weave rotation, and the dots continue to tick while they run around avoiding red.
wat
rotations are much more difficult to reach the ceiling on pts than on live. magcro is ezpz on live and a pain in the ass on pts because of the dots. refreshing dots on cd isn't as easy as you suggest it is, otherwise we'd see a lot of 93-94k necro parses on pts but i've only seen mine and like one other.
That efficient purge will be god damn stronk again. Just saying.