Vigor is too OP
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Ender1310✭✭✭✭
https://youtu.be/cv16NyBcu54
1 tick of vigor heal equal 50% of HTD full heal
That's OP for stam builds
They are changing it to single target and heals for less in the PTS. So next DLC you get your fix. K? Read PTS patch notes.1 -
kylermacdb16_ESO✭✭✭Wouldn't surprise me if Vigor does get reworked at some point, seeing how hard Caltrops got hit. It seems Zenimax's stance on the Alliance skills is that they should primarily be most effective in Cyrodil when fighting with or against large groups. Vigor is sort of an outlier now in that it does not have that limitation.Edited by kylermacdb16_ESO on July 29, 2019 4:58AM1 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Everyone should take a look at this thread.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6239202/#Comment_62392020 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would agree that vigor is OP but there are currently NO other options for stam builds to self heal unless you want to share class heals which I know most of you magicka players would have a problem with.Edited by Anti_Virus on July 29, 2019 7:49AMPower Wealth And Influence.2 -
OwnerOfSuccuby✭✭✭https://youtu.be/cv16NyBcu54
1 tick of vigor heal equal 50% of HTD full heal
That's OP for stam builds
I see no problem - with heal debuff - 2 k hp healing. I can kill it.
But i can not kill night blade with 15 k+ heal per second with healing ward. Even with any heal debuff.0 -
Baconlad✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think most of you are too focused on the numbers here...first, end of the heavy armor stambro meta, they have much less weapon damage from fury and legion. They also have no heals coming in from rally HoT. I dont think vigor is really going to be noticed.
Looking at magick, I think they are trying to give players other options than shield stacking and SnB for magplar. Making resto staff heals look like a good replacement of shields or SnB.
TBH I think resto heals are going to make mag feel OP comparatively. I will also say that I'm glad vigor lost its AoE portion. It turned every stam toon into a healer in BGs and cyrodiil, but makes them have to choose between double heals on them or half heals one them for groups. A major issue in cyrodiil/ bgs that I see are group heals...they suck. Play outnumbered for any length of time and just one toon who knows how to support ur enemies with heals will ruin a good session.3 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭And meanwhile medium armor still just explode, especially against buffed dots. Maybe test stuff instead of being a tooltip hero.
Edit: Also funny how you complain about Vigor and Healing Ward so much while considering Total Dark as weak.Edited by Ragnaroek93 on July 29, 2019 9:09AMI used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭I play both Stam dd and Magic healer and I welcome the changes that I see going on here and here's why now magic healers ain't going to have a crutch called spamming there heals they will actually have to place them and use them accordingly to how their meant to be played in a rotation not in a spam and then secondly you got Stam DD's finally getting an actual good solo self heal especially with the removal of the 2h hot from rallyEdited by Nordic__Knights on July 29, 2019 10:18AM1 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nordic__Knights wrote: »I play both Stam dd and Magic healer and I welcome the changes that I see going on here and here's why now magic healers ain't going to have a crutch called spamming there heals they will actually have to place them and use them accordingly to how their meant to be played in a rotation not in a spam and then secondly you got Stam DD's finally getting an actual good solo self heal especially with the removal of the 2h hot from rally
So how do you reason? Now Stam will dominate and Mags just need to STFU? Stamina has dominated PvP ever since they changed the cloth and stick meta back in 2015, or was it end of 2014 even?, damn it. So you'd be ok if mag dominates PvP from now on then? No you just want your particular preference to dominate, balance has zilch to do with anything. But I now play Stamina for a reason. No wonder it's been called Elder Stamina Online™...
Edited by Idinuse on July 29, 2019 10:58AMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?1 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think most of you are too focused on the numbers here...first, end of the heavy armor stambro meta, they have much less weapon damage from fury and legion. They also have no heals coming in from rally HoT. I dont think vigor is really going to be noticed.
Looking at magick, I think they are trying to give players other options than shield stacking and SnB for magplar. Making resto staff heals look like a good replacement of shields or SnB.
TBH I think resto heals are going to make mag feel OP comparatively. I will also say that I'm glad vigor lost its AoE portion. It turned every stam toon into a healer in BGs and cyrodiil, but makes them have to choose between double heals on them or half heals one them for groups. A major issue in cyrodiil/ bgs that I see are group heals...they suck. Play outnumbered for any length of time and just one toon who knows how to support ur enemies with heals will ruin a good session.
I'm all on board with your reasoning. Unfortunately it requires a player to slot a Restoration Staff, something Stamina builds don't have to because they have Vigor for a lousy 2K stamina (among other lesser options, but so do mag builds). If Vigor was tied to a weapon line, it would be closer to balanced not quite since Bow is an offensive ranged weapon. Maybe S&B... If you don't like the thought of a Bow/S&B build, well welcome to Staff play.
So bottom line is Mag builds get 1 offensive bar with 5 skill slots available to mix class skills and Destro Skills and 1 Restoration bar with 5 skill slots that can only take offensive Class Skills and defensive Resto skills. Meanwhile Stamina builds can choose from 4 offensive Skill Trees and have 2 offensive bars to mix offensive Class Skills and Weapon Skills using 1 slot on any bar for Vigor.Edited by Idinuse on July 29, 2019 10:52AMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?1 -
CurvedSwords123✭✭✭OlumoGarbag wrote: »No its not. CP PVP is just a hard carry. You hit like 5k vigor in cp and 2k in no cp.
Its all just a matter of finally balancing CP PVP. Try that build in non CP and youll see how OP vigor really is.
Their is not only pvp in the game you know ?
Also the game is not balanced around no CP...
The other morph is as much powerful and stack with other player. I can easily reach the same value on a DPS w/o major mending.
And this heal have NO downside since it's not link to weapon and it's cheap af.
Love double-standart of pvp guy.
You spelled standard wrong. Regardless, ppl use vigor in PvP mostly.0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So because actually reading Notes or Testing isnt very popular here and well, knowing how ability works or performs neither, more so when one wants to complain about it.
Live Vigor:
Resolving - heal people around you for 1X over 5s. Heal yourself for ~30% more (1.3X)
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1X over 5s
PTS Vigor:
Resolving - heal just yourself for 1.85X (~42% more than live) over 5s
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1.85X over 10s (total healing done in one cast 85% better than live, HPS 8% worse than Live)
Just so I dont have to read all those people with very clear agenda spewing how its double better and so on.2 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭So because actually reading Notes or Testing isnt very popular here and well, knowing how ability works or performs neither, more so when one wants to complain about it.
Live Vigor:
Resolving - heal people around you for 1X over 5s. Heal yourself for ~30% more (1.3X)
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1X over 5s
PTS Vigor:
Resolving - heal just yourself for 1.85X (~42% more than live) over 5s
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1.85X over 10s (total healing done in one cast 85% better than live, HPS 8% worse than Live)
Just so I dont have to read all those people with very clear agenda spewing how its double better and so on.
am I supposed to believe your numbers?
sorry i only believe what i see (video as a proof)0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So because actually reading Notes or Testing isnt very popular here and well, knowing how ability works or performs neither, more so when one wants to complain about it.
Live Vigor:
Resolving - heal people around you for 1X over 5s. Heal yourself for ~30% more (1.3X)
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1X over 5s
PTS Vigor:
Resolving - heal just yourself for 1.85X (~42% more than live) over 5s
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1.85X over 10s (total healing done in one cast 85% better than live, HPS 8% worse than Live)
Just so I dont have to read all those people with very clear agenda spewing how its double better and so on.
am I supposed to believe your numbers?
sorry i only believe what i see (video as a proof)
You? I wouldnt expect you to believe me, or even understand. Not when it takes less time than watching that video to confirm it.0 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭Have you bothered to look at what restro skills can do while you're crying about vigor?
https://youtu.be/KZ4iSpvB254
https://youtu.be/nZLyjFu9Xtk Edited by usmguy1234 on July 29, 2019 2:06PMZaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »Have you bothered to look at what restro skills can do while you're crying about vigor?https://youtu.be/KZ4iSpvB254https://youtu.be/nZLyjFu9Xtk
Not really an apples to apples comparison since Rapid Regen and Healing Ward are tied to a weapon that must be used and there's no guarantee that the 2 resto skills will hit the caster, but it seems like Vigor and Healing Ward and Regeneration are incredibly strong.
Might be that we need those incredibly strong heals considering the changes to AoE healing, though.2 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭Healing ward is OP i've said that in another thread.
Rapid regen tooltip is bugged imo because the HoT per sec isn't equal to the tooltip0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »I would agree that vigor is OP but there are currently NO other options for stam builds to self heal unless you want to share class heals which I know most of you magicka players would have a problem with.
I think Vigor should stay as it was, a great heal. And give every mag class a similar heal. Many mag classes, same as stamina, dont have reliable, godo heals.1 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So because actually reading Notes or Testing isnt very popular here and well, knowing how ability works or performs neither, more so when one wants to complain about it.
Live Vigor:
Resolving - heal people around you for 1X over 5s. Heal yourself for ~30% more (1.3X)
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1X over 5s
PTS Vigor:
Resolving - heal just yourself for 1.85X (~42% more than live) over 5s
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1.85X over 10s (total healing done in one cast 85% better than live, HPS 8% worse than Live)
Just so I dont have to read all those people with very clear agenda spewing how its double better and so on.
am I supposed to believe your numbers?
sorry i only believe what i see (video as a proof)
Kk, easy.
Here's proof.DocFrost72 wrote: »I got excited seeing that 52k tooltip screenie someone took. So I went and, without changing my build AT ALL, got the before and afters.
Before:
After:
and for context since I'm not a hack, here's my character sheet (note; no major buffs at time of the sheet: no brutality or savagery):
Seems to me that it IS an 85% buff from the base value, as was stated. From what you have live on resolving though, you're discussing a very rough estimate of a 42% buff.
0 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »So because actually reading Notes or Testing isnt very popular here and well, knowing how ability works or performs neither, more so when one wants to complain about it.
Live Vigor:
Resolving - heal people around you for 1X over 5s. Heal yourself for ~30% more (1.3X)
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1X over 5s
PTS Vigor:
Resolving - heal just yourself for 1.85X (~42% more than live) over 5s
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1.85X over 10s (total healing done in one cast 85% better than live, HPS 8% worse than Live)
Just so I dont have to read all those people with very clear agenda spewing how its double better and so on.
am I supposed to believe your numbers?
sorry i only believe what i see (video as a proof)
Kk, easy.
Here's proof.DocFrost72 wrote: »I got excited seeing that 52k tooltip screenie someone took. So I went and, without changing my build AT ALL, got the before and afters.
Before:
After:
and for context since I'm not a hack, here's my character sheet (note; no major buffs at time of the sheet: no brutality or savagery):
Seems to me that it IS an 85% buff from the base value, as was stated. From what you have live on resolving though, you're discussing a very rough estimate of a 42% buff.
yeah as i said, vigor is too OP nerf it2 -
master_vanargand✭✭✭✭✭
✭DocFrost72 wrote: »So because actually reading Notes or Testing isnt very popular here and well, knowing how ability works or performs neither, more so when one wants to complain about it.
Live Vigor:
Resolving - heal people around you for 1X over 5s. Heal yourself for ~30% more (1.3X)
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1X over 5s
PTS Vigor:
Resolving - heal just yourself for 1.85X (~42% more than live) over 5s
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1.85X over 10s (total healing done in one cast 85% better than live, HPS 8% worse than Live)
Just so I dont have to read all those people with very clear agenda spewing how its double better and so on.
am I supposed to believe your numbers?
sorry i only believe what i see (video as a proof)
Kk, easy.
Here's proof.DocFrost72 wrote: »I got excited seeing that 52k tooltip screenie someone took. So I went and, without changing my build AT ALL, got the before and afters.
Before:
After:
and for context since I'm not a hack, here's my character sheet (note; no major buffs at time of the sheet: no brutality or savagery):
Seems to me that it IS an 85% buff from the base value, as was stated. From what you have live on resolving though, you're discussing a very rough estimate of a 42% buff.
It has low stamina recovery.
I think it's like a potato.0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭master_vanargand wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »So because actually reading Notes or Testing isnt very popular here and well, knowing how ability works or performs neither, more so when one wants to complain about it.
Live Vigor:
Resolving - heal people around you for 1X over 5s. Heal yourself for ~30% more (1.3X)
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1X over 5s
PTS Vigor:
Resolving - heal just yourself for 1.85X (~42% more than live) over 5s
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1.85X over 10s (total healing done in one cast 85% better than live, HPS 8% worse than Live)
Just so I dont have to read all those people with very clear agenda spewing how its double better and so on.
am I supposed to believe your numbers?
sorry i only believe what i see (video as a proof)
Kk, easy.
Here's proof.DocFrost72 wrote: »I got excited seeing that 52k tooltip screenie someone took. So I went and, without changing my build AT ALL, got the before and afters.
Before:
After:
and for context since I'm not a hack, here's my character sheet (note; no major buffs at time of the sheet: no brutality or savagery):
Seems to me that it IS an 85% buff from the base value, as was stated. From what you have live on resolving though, you're discussing a very rough estimate of a 42% buff.
It has low stamina recovery.
I think it's like a potato.
Or is a PVE build, which you can figure out from the lack of crit resist...0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »So because actually reading Notes or Testing isnt very popular here and well, knowing how ability works or performs neither, more so when one wants to complain about it.
Live Vigor:
Resolving - heal people around you for 1X over 5s. Heal yourself for ~30% more (1.3X)
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1X over 5s
PTS Vigor:
Resolving - heal just yourself for 1.85X (~42% more than live) over 5s
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1.85X over 10s (total healing done in one cast 85% better than live, HPS 8% worse than Live)
Just so I dont have to read all those people with very clear agenda spewing how its double better and so on.
am I supposed to believe your numbers?
sorry i only believe what i see (video as a proof)
Kk, easy.
Here's proof.DocFrost72 wrote: »I got excited seeing that 52k tooltip screenie someone took. So I went and, without changing my build AT ALL, got the before and afters.
Before:
After:
and for context since I'm not a hack, here's my character sheet (note; no major buffs at time of the sheet: no brutality or savagery):
Seems to me that it IS an 85% buff from the base value, as was stated. From what you have live on resolving though, you're discussing a very rough estimate of a 42% buff.
yeah as i said, vigor is too OP nerf it
Oh no, tooltip 3.3k heal (vigor ticks 6 times). What ever will that be able to do against undodgeable, unblockable 2.7k soul traps and 2.7k entropys! We must make it 1k heal so someone can kill this unstoppable 1.8k pvp heal!
3 -
master_vanargand✭✭✭✭✭
✭master_vanargand wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »So because actually reading Notes or Testing isnt very popular here and well, knowing how ability works or performs neither, more so when one wants to complain about it.
Live Vigor:
Resolving - heal people around you for 1X over 5s. Heal yourself for ~30% more (1.3X)
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1X over 5s
PTS Vigor:
Resolving - heal just yourself for 1.85X (~42% more than live) over 5s
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1.85X over 10s (total healing done in one cast 85% better than live, HPS 8% worse than Live)
Just so I dont have to read all those people with very clear agenda spewing how its double better and so on.
am I supposed to believe your numbers?
sorry i only believe what i see (video as a proof)
Kk, easy.
Here's proof.DocFrost72 wrote: »I got excited seeing that 52k tooltip screenie someone took. So I went and, without changing my build AT ALL, got the before and afters.
Before:
After:
and for context since I'm not a hack, here's my character sheet (note; no major buffs at time of the sheet: no brutality or savagery):
Seems to me that it IS an 85% buff from the base value, as was stated. From what you have live on resolving though, you're discussing a very rough estimate of a 42% buff.
It has low stamina recovery.
I think it's like a potato.
Or is a PVE build, which you can figure out from the lack of crit resist...
PvE? Who cry if Vigor is strong?
No problem in PvE. No one cries.
By the way, what do you want to say?0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »I would agree that vigor is OP but there are currently NO other options for stam builds to self heal unless you want to share class heals which I know most of you magicka players would have a problem with.
I think Vigor should stay as it was, a great heal. And give every mag class a similar heal. Many mag classes, same as stamina, dont have reliable, godo heals.
No. Not till stam gets a real shield. GgWuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions1 -
Yuke✭✭✭✭✭did this guy really pop a vitality pot to showcase the OP'ness of vigor? The worst possible choice of pot to use after the pot nerfs? smh...must be an US server thing or something0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭did this guy really pop a vitality pot to showcase the OP'ness of vigor? The worst possible choice of pot to use after the pot nerfs? smh...must be an US server thing or something
Yea, vigor’s fine. People just waiting for patch notes to be up and browsing all the garbage threads in the meantime.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0