[Werewolf Scalebreaker feedback] - "Why most of the changes are unjustified and needs tweaking"
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Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »perditioner wrote: »Can you record a parse please @Chrlynsch? Be useful to see your rotation. What sets and cp and poisons are you using?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6232977/#Comment_6232977
I did one for my werewolf guild the other day and posted in this thread, superstar at the beginning, metrics report at the end.
Presh that. You have CP? All LA spam or some skills mixed in?
Huh?Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sounds good to me. Should have heavy reduced cost for block. Taunt on heavy for 15 secs. And a buff to increased time for other werewolves in your group by an extra 5% up to 20% for 4 WWs (including yourself). Would make it useful. Also change tormenter set to work for all gap closers.[/quoteWuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions0 -
JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »Sounds good to me. Should have heavy reduced cost for block. Taunt on heavy for 15 secs. And a buff to increased time for other werewolves in your group by an extra 5% up to 20% for 4 WWs (including yourself). Would make it useful. Also change tormenter set to work for all gap closers.[/quote
and, in addition, big dragon tail at the back to jump like a kangaroo, and hug more werewolf females when close.
hell guys, wtf?
it's werewolf, to write such things is like to ask bike be spaceship and a spaghetti.all classes. pc platform, dissapointed.0 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JusticeSouldier wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »Sounds good to me. Should have heavy reduced cost for block. Taunt on heavy for 15 secs. And a buff to increased time for other werewolves in your group by an extra 5% up to 20% for 4 WWs (including yourself). Would make it useful. Also change tormenter set to work for all gap closers.[/quote
and, in addition, big dragon tail at the back to jump like a kangaroo, and hug more werewolf females when close.
hell guys, wtf?
it's werewolf, to write such things is like to ask bike be spaceship and a spaghetti.
I don't care who you are, that's funny right there.Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭JusticeSouldier wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »Sounds good to me. Should have heavy reduced cost for block. Taunt on heavy for 15 secs. And a buff to increased time for other werewolves in your group by an extra 5% up to 20% for 4 WWs (including yourself). Would make it useful. Also change tormenter set to work for all gap closers.[/quote
and, in addition, big dragon tail at the back to jump like a kangaroo, and hug more werewolf females when close.
hell guys, wtf?
it's werewolf, to write such things is like to ask bike be spaceship and a spaghetti.
Well dude. By your logic packleader shouldnt have a bleed and should be for snares and minor maim. Lol wut a dumb comment. I dont want a tank wolf but if thats what they want then it might as well be made useful. Currently no one will use it.Edited by Wuuffyy on July 28, 2019 3:30PMWuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions0 -
JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭My logic is very simple - if they made pack leader morf like somehow looking like "tanky", than we should ask them to make it Werewolf back, not more "tank".
And when u ask something like, think also how it will be in all content types, not only in one, in which your imagination has drawn it recently.
Hell, it's ridiculous, werewolf design in general moves last few years in so bad direction that i almost lost hope to enjoy it like it was in Skyrim.
And a big part of that - such ideas based on wrong from the start basement.
Werewolf is not a tank!
wtf really?
Edited by JusticeSouldier on July 28, 2019 12:03AMall classes. pc platform, dissapointed.0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭JusticeSouldier wrote: »My logic is very simple - if they made pack leader morf like somehow looking like "tanky", than we should ask them to make it Werewolf back, not more "tank".
And when u ask something like, think also how it will be in all content types, not only in one, in which your imagination has drawn it recently.
Hell, it's ridiculous, werewolf design in general moves last few years in so bad direction that i almost lost hope to enjoy it like it was in Skyrim.
And a big part of that - such ideas based on wrong from the start basement.
Werewolf is not a tank!
wtf really?
Right its not a tank. And apparently we aren't allowed to be damage dealers anywhere near remotely efficient either. And in pvp we are forces to be hybrid ish builds for even sub standard combat results. Therefore. Not much is left to do with Packleader so hence even the idea.
I do not want it that way but I also don't want that more to be useful for years either.Wuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions1 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I just wanted to point out that Destro Frost Staff was not a supposed to be a gear for tanks, but well... it is now...JusticeSouldier wrote: »Werewolf is not a tank!
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perditioner✭✭✭Thanks @Chrlynsch, with your rotation and 2h I can get my dps up a few more thousand.0 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
I just wanted to point out that Destro Frost Staff was not a supposed to be a gear for tanks, but well... it is now...JusticeSouldier wrote: »Werewolf is not a tank!
Correct me if I am wrong ( @ZOS_GinaBruno ) but ZOS had said that their vision for werewolf does not include tanking. I'm afraid that trying to make werewolf into too many different things would just overcomplicate their identity, and leave them unequipped to fill the role of the tank.
Tanks use ice staffs as a tool combined with many other tools to help them tank effectively.Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA1 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭perditioner wrote: »Thanks @Chrlynsch, with your rotation and 2h I can get my dps up a few more thousand.
Here are some tips not listed in the video.
1. If you are on PC, bind your mouse wheel up and down to light attacks.
2. Do not do anything other than light attacks while Bloodmoon is procced.
3. Keep Kena proc up as much as possible.
4. Keep Claws of life up as much as possible.
5. Keep bleed proc up as much as possible (if you are going to heavy attack do so right after you have reapplied the bleed dot)
6. Try to sync up the off balance proc and Bloodmoon proc the best that you can. If you are not synced utilize heavy attack/howl weaves during this time to get your stam pool back up. (Dont let claws of life die or your bleed).
7. Weaving howls should be done while dots are up, Kena is procced and Bloodmoon is on cooldown (not when build stacks or procced).
Let me know if you have any issues or questions.Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA1 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭perditioner wrote: »Thanks @Chrlynsch, with your rotation and 2h I can get my dps up a few more thousand.
Here are some tips not listed in the video.
1. If you are on PC, bind your mouse wheel up and down to light attacks.
2. Do not do anything other than light attacks while Bloodmoon is procced.
3. Keep Kena proc up as much as possible.
4. Keep Claws of life up as much as possible.
5. Keep bleed proc up as much as possible (if you are going to heavy attack do so right after you have reapplied the bleed dot)
6. Try to sync up the off balance proc and Bloodmoon proc the best that you can. If you are not synced utilize heavy attack/howl weaves during this time to get your stam pool back up. (Dont let claws of life die or your bleed).
7. Weaving howls should be done while dots are up, Kena is procced and Bloodmoon is on cooldown (not when build stacks or procced).
Let me know if you have any issues or questions.
Basic rotation then. Wats ur CP.Wuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions0 -
JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
I just wanted to point out that Destro Frost Staff was not a supposed to be a gear for tanks, but well... it is now...JusticeSouldier wrote: »Werewolf is not a tank!
And I never liked that idea and that's a topic for another thread.
But, here we talking about werewolfes, and here question - why to ask bad idea become bigger, than to ask replace that idea with another one.
I've got one few minuts ago - to give pack leader special attack.
With ultimates generation while in form to be used for that.
Slightly similar to warden's bear.
And here they can add buffs or debuffs, which will have value to be desireable instead bonuses of Berserker morf and will not rely on "ghost" or not wolfs without reliable control and annoying at the same time...
It can have look even of ghost wolf(s) coming and doing instant attack than dissapearing...
And, one more time, i want werewolf be less tanky in general, maybe with more health, health recovery, vitality instead, but without that resists bonus.
@ZOS_Gilliam can combat design team like such way?Edited by JusticeSouldier on July 29, 2019 2:59PMall classes. pc platform, dissapointed.0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JusticeSouldier wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
I just wanted to point out that Destro Frost Staff was not a supposed to be a gear for tanks, but well... it is now...JusticeSouldier wrote: »Werewolf is not a tank!
And I never liked that idea and that's a topic for another thread.
But, here we talking about werewolfes, and here question - why to ask bad idea become bigger, than to ask replace that idea with another one.
I've got one few minuts ago - to give pack leader special attack.
With ultimates generation while in form to be used for that.
Slightly similar to warden's bear.
And here they can add buffs or debuffs, which will have value to be desireable instead bonuses of Berserker morf and will not rely on "ghost" or not wolfs without reliable control and annoying at the same time...
It can have look even of ghost wolf(s) coming and doing instant attack than dissapearing...
And, one more time, i want werewolf be less tanky in general, maybe with more health, health recovery, vitality instead, but without that resists bonus.
@ZOS_Gilliam can combat design team like such way?
I´ve a challenge for you, remove the 2 skillpoints from Savage Strenght from your werewolf, do a PvP session against players that are somewhat decent (extra + if you´re outnumbered) and let me know how things went......Edited by Qbiken on July 29, 2019 3:05PM3 -
JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭JusticeSouldier wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
I just wanted to point out that Destro Frost Staff was not a supposed to be a gear for tanks, but well... it is now...JusticeSouldier wrote: »Werewolf is not a tank!
And I never liked that idea and that's a topic for another thread.
But, here we talking about werewolfes, and here question - why to ask bad idea become bigger, than to ask replace that idea with another one.
I've got one few minuts ago - to give pack leader special attack.
With ultimates generation while in form to be used for that.
Slightly similar to warden's bear.
And here they can add buffs or debuffs, which will have value to be desireable instead bonuses of Berserker morf and will not rely on "ghost" or not wolfs without reliable control and annoying at the same time...
It can have look even of ghost wolf(s) coming and doing instant attack than dissapearing...
And, one more time, i want werewolf be less tanky in general, maybe with more health, health recovery, vitality instead, but without that resists bonus.
@ZOS_Gilliam can combat design team like such way?
I´ve a challenge for you, remove the 2 skillpoints from Savage Strenght from your werewolf, do a PvP session against players that are somewhat decent (extra + if you´re outnumbered) and let me know how things went......
I've a challenge for u, how do u feel better:
1. u have 2 apples. we take 1 from u and giving u pineapple instead
2. u have 2 apples. we take 1 from u and give u nothing instead... (thats what u trying to refer with to me now)
wtf mate? what u tryed to say here?Edited by JusticeSouldier on July 29, 2019 3:23PMall classes. pc platform, dissapointed.0 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JusticeSouldier wrote: »JusticeSouldier wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
I just wanted to point out that Destro Frost Staff was not a supposed to be a gear for tanks, but well... it is now...JusticeSouldier wrote: »Werewolf is not a tank!
And I never liked that idea and that's a topic for another thread.
But, here we talking about werewolfes, and here question - why to ask bad idea become bigger, than to ask replace that idea with another one.
I've got one few minuts ago - to give pack leader special attack.
With ultimates generation while in form to be used for that.
Slightly similar to warden's bear.
And here they can add buffs or debuffs, which will have value to be desireable instead bonuses of Berserker morf and will not rely on "ghost" or not wolfs without reliable control and annoying at the same time...
It can have look even of ghost wolf(s) coming and doing instant attack than dissapearing...
And, one more time, i want werewolf be less tanky in general, maybe with more health, health recovery, vitality instead, but without that resists bonus.
@ZOS_Gilliam can combat design team like such way?
I´ve a challenge for you, remove the 2 skillpoints from Savage Strenght from your werewolf, do a PvP session against players that are somewhat decent (extra + if you´re outnumbered) and let me know how things went......
I've a challenge for u, how do u feel better:
1. u have 2 apples. we take 1 from u and giving u pineapple instead
2. u have 2 apples. we take 1 from u and give u nothing instead... (thats what u trying to refer with to me now)
wtf mate? what u tryed to say here?
Please try to stay on topic.Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA3 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well... I guess we lost...
No WW changes in this round of PTS. Pack Leader remains Dead...
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Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/487154/pts-patch-notes-v5-1-3#latest
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_Gilliam
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
Is it intentional to ignore feedback regarding werewolf for an entire PTS cycle or what´s the deal about this?4 -
FenrisWolf1136✭✭✭.https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/487154/pts-patch-notes-v5-1-3#latest
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_Gilliam
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
Is it intentional to ignore feedback regarding werewolf for an entire PTS cycle or what´s the deal about this?
Not really surprising. Will have to wait a few patches before we see any changes and see where the overall direction of these changes are headed. In the meantime, it'll be nice to take a break and come back to see how things look in a few patches. See what the game is like when some of those performance changes are in place and their standardizing abilities is worked out. Will be interesting to see where everything lands.Programmer of FenrisBot for discord.
The helper bot for ESO. Console Focused.
Check out https://norsewolfgames.com/fenrisbot for more information or to add it to your discord!0 -
Excelsus✭✭✭✭Don't worry, next patch theyll have an entirely different design goal for the game that might include viable werewolf dps.2
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Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Being brutally honest here, WW DPS is what killed it.Don't worry, next patch theyll have an entirely different design goal for the game that might include viable werewolf dps.
- PvP-ers were screaming that it is OP in below level 50 BGs in a pre-made group.
- PvE-ers were screaming that it is "brain dead", it does not deserve ANY DPS.
Thus, WW was killed. Everywhere. Even in solo play. Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on July 29, 2019 8:11PM3 -
Dashmatt✭✭✭✭It’s clear from each PTS patch that they are actively listening to feedback on many things. I don’t get why Werewolf has had absolute silence, despite getting quite a few changes - which are more impactful than any of my other characters are experiencing.
Just say you think you did a good job and Werewolves are perfect now, if that’s what you think...0 -
It’s clear from each PTS patch that they are actively listening to feedback on many things. I don’t get why Werewolf has had absolute silence, despite getting quite a few changes - which are more impactful than any of my other characters are experiencing.
Just say you think you did a good job and Werewolves are perfect now, if that’s what you think...
Doesn’t help you get some werewolves defending the state of wws on pts...
Posting parses and countering complaints made by other players is kind of a stupid thing to do.. but then again these guys are pvers and they have no idea how *** wws are going to be in pvp0 -
JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭JusticeSouldier wrote: »JusticeSouldier wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
I just wanted to point out that Destro Frost Staff was not a supposed to be a gear for tanks, but well... it is now...JusticeSouldier wrote: »Werewolf is not a tank!
And I never liked that idea and that's a topic for another thread.
But, here we talking about werewolfes, and here question - why to ask bad idea become bigger, than to ask replace that idea with another one.
I've got one few minuts ago - to give pack leader special attack.
With ultimates generation while in form to be used for that.
Slightly similar to warden's bear.
And here they can add buffs or debuffs, which will have value to be desireable instead bonuses of Berserker morf and will not rely on "ghost" or not wolfs without reliable control and annoying at the same time...
It can have look even of ghost wolf(s) coming and doing instant attack than dissapearing...
And, one more time, i want werewolf be less tanky in general, maybe with more health, health recovery, vitality instead, but without that resists bonus.
@ZOS_Gilliam can combat design team like such way?
I´ve a challenge for you, remove the 2 skillpoints from Savage Strenght from your werewolf, do a PvP session against players that are somewhat decent (extra + if you´re outnumbered) and let me know how things went......
I've a challenge for u, how do u feel better:
1. u have 2 apples. we take 1 from u and giving u pineapple instead
2. u have 2 apples. we take 1 from u and give u nothing instead... (thats what u trying to refer with to me now)
wtf mate? what u tryed to say here?
Please try to stay on topic.
it's metaphor for Qbiken to understand that he's "offer" is irrelevant.
Current passives have it's value.
It's not a good thing to just remove something and not getting something instead as he asked me.
if we want balance ofc.Edited by JusticeSouldier on July 29, 2019 11:56PMall classes. pc platform, dissapointed.0 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭liningtonsweldingb16_ESO wrote: »It’s clear from each PTS patch that they are actively listening to feedback on many things. I don’t get why Werewolf has had absolute silence, despite getting quite a few changes - which are more impactful than any of my other characters are experiencing.
Just say you think you did a good job and Werewolves are perfect now, if that’s what you think...
Doesn’t help you get some werewolves defending the state of wws on pts...
Posting parses and countering complaints made by other players is kind of a stupid thing to do.. but then again these guys are pvers and they have no idea how *** wws are going to be in pvp
Holy smokes am I a pve'r now?!Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA1 -
liningtonsweldingb16_ESO wrote: »It’s clear from each PTS patch that they are actively listening to feedback on many things. I don’t get why Werewolf has had absolute silence, despite getting quite a few changes - which are more impactful than any of my other characters are experiencing.
Just say you think you did a good job and Werewolves are perfect now, if that’s what you think...
Doesn’t help you get some werewolves defending the state of wws on pts...
Posting parses and countering complaints made by other players is kind of a stupid thing to do.. but then again these guys are pvers and they have no idea how *** wws are going to be in pvp
Holy smokes am I a pve'r now?!
You seem like one tbh0 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭liningtonsweldingb16_ESO wrote: »liningtonsweldingb16_ESO wrote: »It’s clear from each PTS patch that they are actively listening to feedback on many things. I don’t get why Werewolf has had absolute silence, despite getting quite a few changes - which are more impactful than any of my other characters are experiencing.
Just say you think you did a good job and Werewolves are perfect now, if that’s what you think...
Doesn’t help you get some werewolves defending the state of wws on pts...
Posting parses and countering complaints made by other players is kind of a stupid thing to do.. but then again these guys are pvers and they have no idea how *** wws are going to be in pvp
Holy smokes am I a pve'r now?!
You seem like one tbh
I could tell that many of the complaints came from those who hadn't actually tested the changes, and that others still had room to adapt to the changes.
What doesn't do any of us any good is jumping to conclusions, be it about changes to the game, or about their fellow player's expertise.Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
Being brutally honest here, WW DPS is what killed it.Don't worry, next patch theyll have an entirely different design goal for the game that might include viable werewolf dps.
- PvP-ers were screaming that it is OP in below level 50 BGs in a pre-made group.
- PvE-ers were screaming that it is "brain dead", it does not deserve ANY DPS.
Thus, WW was killed. Everywhere. Even in solo play.
Just insanity. Borderline makes me not want to play as they still have updates upcoming for passives (stam sorc and werewolf keep this up to still under good dps so a heavy loss) and then sets.Wuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions2 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It’s clear from each PTS patch that they are actively listening to feedback on many things. I don’t get why Werewolf has had absolute silence, despite getting quite a few changes - which are more impactful than any of my other characters are experiencing.
Just say you think you did a good job and Werewolves are perfect now, if that’s what you think...
This is what bothers me the most. If ZOS would´ve ignored feedback regarding other topics as well, it would´ve made more sense. But just take a look throughout the PTS cycle regarding what got changed (will name a few):
* Onslaught: Got changed after people voiced complains about how it gave too much offensive Powers
* Healing ward: Got changed 2-3 times already, after people voiced complains about it.
* Vigor: Will apparently get changed since it gives too much healing according to ZOS. If we compare PTS vigor to PTS Hircine´s Bounty, vigor gives more than twice the HPS compared to the WW-heal.
I find it ridicilous how ZOS can ignore werewolf for an entire patch when making changes that will have a huge impact on certain aspect of the werewolf playstyle.
Regarding @Chrlynsch "defending" the werewolf changes:
- He´s shown numerous times that you can get around the changes from a PvE perspective, simply by swapping to the berserker morph. If the important thing for someone is to use werewolf in PvE and feel somewhat competitive, you won´t mind changing in my opinion. He´s probably one of the most knowledgeable werewolf player in this game and if a "werewolf class-rep" existed, Chrlynsch would be the right person for it.
In my opinion there´re 2 pain points that needs to be addressed before Scalebreaker goes live:
1. The werewolf heal needs to either:
a) Get rid of its increased cost (reducing it´s healing potency however is fine) <--- Preferred choice.
b) Get reworked to scale of max stamina and weapon damage and work as vigor (Roar gets reworked and costs magicka)
2. Buff the utility of Pack-Leader:
If Pack-Leader is supposed to bring utility to a group it needs to be something significantly better than minor maim and a snare. In PvE you´ve no use of these things and in PvP it´s not worth trading these two things for the extra damage Berserker gives you. Pack-Leader needs to either offer a unique buff/debuff that can´t be found anywhere else or bring powerful enough buffs so that they´re an asset to the group, and not a burden.
@JusticeSouldier
My point was that your suggestions about trading the extra resistance for more HP, HP-regen or vitality, would be like trading an in-game tempering alloy for a lockpick. While I do agree that werewolf should be more about it´s offensive/aggressive nature, it needs survivability. The extra resistance is more or less a necessity for any competitive PvP as a werewolf. If I remember correctly there was a bug before Murkmire where the extra resistance from Savage Strenght didn´t apply, and it was absolutely awful to play as a werewolf back then before it got hot-fixed.
Now what would a "fair-trade" look like? In my opinion something like this:
* Instead of 10k extra spell- & physical resistance, they now only get 5k spell- & physical resistance. In return, werewolfs now have access to weapon passives and can gain ultimate while in werewolf form (but at a 50% slower rate than outside of werewolf form).
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam
Please reconsider these changes. At least leave some kind of response/feedback to why werewolf isn´t recieving any updates during this PTS cycle. Werewolfs doesn´t feel anywhere near the "25% more powerful" as stated in the original update.Edited by Qbiken on July 30, 2019 6:36AM2
