Shields are pretty trash

Aedrion · July 2019

With the changes to shields that made them critable but had them take your resistances into account, they're basically heals that layer over your actual HP bar now. Remind me what heal consistently heals you for 8k+?

Yah. A hefty cost is warranted.

Lucky28 · July 2019

bardx86 wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that the strength of shields themselves are not the problem. They never were. Shield STACKING is the real issue. Why ZOS continues to address the problem by nerfing shields to uselessness is anybody's guess. Use a little common sense here. Give players back a decent shield and just prevent stacking. Why is that so darn hard to comprehend?

Ironically if zos just made an all shield cap of say 70% this would also fix the issues with stacking current pts healing ward - because you could no longer protect it without losing considerable strengh from it.

they don't even need to do that. just make Healing ward a minor ward and Hardened/dampened major wards so they don't stack. problem solved.

But this add an additional problem. Sorcs can no longer use the light armor skill while every other class can. This isn't balanced.

oh they can, they just have to choose between harness and hardened. it just makes it so every class has access to one major ward and one minor ward. i mean *** at the rate ZOS is going shields aren't gonna be useful to anyone . and sorcs can still use shields with heavy armor unlike other classes.

Lord-Otto · July 2019

Aedrion wrote: »

With the changes to shields that made them critable but had them take your resistances into account, they're basically heals that layer over your actual HP bar now. Remind me what heal consistently heals you for 8k+?

Yah. A hefty cost is warranted.

A crit heal.

Lucky28 · July 2019

Aedrion wrote: »

With the changes to shields that made them critable but had them take your resistances into account, they're basically heals that layer over your actual HP bar now. Remind me what heal consistently heals you for 8k+?

Yah. A hefty cost is warranted.

no, because this makes them damn near useless. and what happens if that's the case?. well, everyone goes heavy armor with sword and board thus we go into a super tank meta...... put a little more effort into taking into account how one thing affects another please.

Jodynn · July 2019

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Aedrion wrote: »

With the changes to shields that made them critable but had them take your resistances into account, they're basically heals that layer over your actual HP bar now. Remind me what heal consistently heals you for 8k+?

Yah. A hefty cost is warranted.

A crit heal.

healing can be buffed and defiled, shields can't other than balance which is a whole other thing.

Lord-Otto · July 2019

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Aedrion wrote: »

With the changes to shields that made them critable but had them take your resistances into account, they're basically heals that layer over your actual HP bar now. Remind me what heal consistently heals you for 8k+?

Yah. A hefty cost is warranted.

A crit heal.

healing can be buffed and defiled, shields can't other than balance which is a whole other thing.

You can't "de-crit" your opponent.

Anti_Virus · July 2019

Shields aren’t meant to be the sole mechanic for survivability on mag. Lots of classes have alternative tools in their kit

Sorcs have high mobility stop face tanking and be more mobile via streak, you also have daedric mines to deter melee from getting in your face

Nbs can cloak

Etc.

Derra · July 2019

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Shields are OPAF, you aren't understanding their use if you think otherwise

Since you have it in your sig.

Would you please raise your arguments instead of raising shields are OPAF - adressing the concerns regarding shields i make in my lenghy post #7 in this topic?

The two classes that have to rely on shields as their main defense (outside of healing ward discussion - which i still don´t believe to make it live) are bottom tier for magica specs alongside the classes that don´t get a decent class cc on pts.
That is somewhat telling about how "op" shields are on the pts imo.

ZOS this is what happens when you wrongfully undue a correct decision and try to appease the clearly overpowered class players by giving them more shield. It just make these people want even more. Sorc needs further nerfs and needs to stay nerfed bc they are too easy. Like my WW.

this is what happens when people don´t know what they talk about by exclaiming sorc got more shield when that just didn´t happen for builds with less than 60k magica.

Anyway why make such posts. Do you see me posting in werewolf topics about how deluded all the doggos are and how they need further nerfing?
What kind of negative mindest is that.

I see plently of people doing what you just mentioned. Also I know the truth but I am just going to spread misinformation like every else bc this type of "buff" benefits very few specs except in PvE.

That´s sad. Why not try to be better than what you see other people doing?

I generally try to not argue about anything i don´t know enough about - and if i do only in a positive way (ie suggest buffs to what i perceive as underperforming).

Derra · July 2019

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

I tested on live and pts, that's why I added the fourth cost per damage reduction

You are playing one of the easiest class to sustain, relying on healing passives, burst heal and huge hot, the shield is for you an additional defense, not your ONLY DEFENSE.

A sorc cannot sustain Hardened ward, his main defense tool and here is the problem.

surge passive crit heals, twilight super strong burst heal more than coag and affects another target, your shield protects your pet and scales higher than light armor skills before cap, and it gives you a mag recovery passive, I'm not sure I understand your argument here.

If you truely think twilight heals more than coagulated blood after available class bonuses are applied you´re mistaken.
Also the twilight costs two slots for just healing and can die.
You should probably test both classes on pts before comparing the two - because on pts DK is miles ahead in the keeping itself alive department compared to sorc.

But otherwise you´re right - the problem about shields on pts is the cost not the size.

You're detracting away from the problem at hand, you have plenty of survival abilities in your toolkit and shields are not negligible to say the least, my friend is a sorc and I asked her how she felt, she agrees with me, shields aren't even kind of trash.

What survivability options do i have as a sorc.

Twilight heal is not worth the slots anymore. It´s bol for 2 slots on a class with no healing synergies that also dies.
Surge is meh if you don´t have dots - ironically if you slot dots one of them makes surge obsolete.
Sorc has absolutely no healing modifier accessible in their toolkit on top.

What other class survivability does sorc have.

Did your friend test sorc shields on pts against competent players - because i´ll happily duel her and give her the chance to reevaluate that opinion.
I can comfortably say that i´ve tested the sorc defensive toolkit on pts and compared it to templar, nb and dk - and even magblade is slightly ahead (though that is purely because cloak hardcounters dots and pts is all dot). DK and templar play in a different league.

So far i only see people that didn´t actually play the class tell people that did it´s gonna be fine.

You can stack your shield, light armor, and healing ward.
Dark conversion does a great burst and gives you sustain and doesn't even pull from your main resource
Crystal frags heal you each tick
Encase will heal you and give you major vitality
Twilight is still viable it does 3k every second by just being near something and still a FULL BOL heal, not one full and one half
Surge is still worth it and there is soul trap and flame reach dots which hurt the same as degen and even if you have two major sorc buffs surge is still worth it and degen is still worth it or use structured if you don't want the sustain, that's ANOTHER heal
You can use mutagen, hell, you can even use vigor this patch.
You can do all this WHILE streaking away which absorbs a projectile.

What do you have in your toolkit ? You have the best shield in the game that gives you minor intellect and allows you to stack, if I'm okay with harness magicka or even dampen and you have a better shield, what are you doing wrong, I've ran DK without Coagulating and still did fine, shields are not trash, they are far from it.

I could adress everything you´ve mentioned in here.
But it´s pointless because you´ve just showcased that you have absolutely no idea what you´re talking about and i´m not going to try to teach chess to a pidgeon.

Have a good life.

If you want to get some perspective on what you´ve tried there try to come up with a build that actually has enough shields healing and offensive power (without using healing ward - that´s cheating at this point and i don´t expect it to go live).

Lord_Eomer · July 2019

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Shields are trash on live as well. It's not murkmire anymore. The problem is the potatoes have not realized it yet

Its not Trash in No CP PVP and infact OK in CP PVP.

By the it's working fine in PVE too

Derra · July 2019

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Shields are trash on live as well. It's not murkmire anymore. The problem is the potatoes have not realized it yet

Its not Trash in No CP PVP and infact OK in CP PVP.

By the it's working fine in PVE too

Shields are good on live and OP as soon as you stack them with harness.

With harness gone and dot dps and hot hps significantly raised they would have been in a relatively worse situation on pts. They nerfed them on top which was overkill.

PhoenixGrey · July 2019

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Shields aren’t meant to be the sole mechanic for survivability on mag. Lots of classes have alternative tools in their kit

Sorcs have high mobility stop face tanking and be more mobile via streak, you also have daedric mines to deter melee from getting in your face

Nbs can cloak

Etc.

Shields are supposed to be the sole survivability for mag sorc.

Gap closers render streak useless to keep range. You probably must have never played mag sorc or you would definitely know there is no bar space to slot mines. Next patch we have to make room for more average skills like healing ward and mutagen on a class with zero healing passives

Derra · July 2019

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Sorcs have high mobility stop face tanking and be more mobile via streak, you also have daedric mines to deter melee from getting in your face

This is so far from the truth especially on pts.
The changes to streak actually transform sorc into somewhat of a mele dps.
When was the last time you saw a sorc slot mines - i mean i´d love to. I just can´t find the room for it.

And yes sorc is great at making single purpose builds to counter a specific opponent (on live - on pts i find even that debateable). But those builds are severely lacking in other areas.
You don´t get to build well rounded like virtually every other class (if we ignore the whole magcro magden not having access to even half decent cc dilemma - which is a different issue).

Edit: Maybe i´m wrong about shields being too weak though - but when looking at the complete defensive package of sorc on pts the class is currently too weak in comparison to other mag classes (except nb which is also lacking as soon as cloak gets countered).

Jodynn · July 2019

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

I tested on live and pts, that's why I added the fourth cost per damage reduction

You are playing one of the easiest class to sustain, relying on healing passives, burst heal and huge hot, the shield is for you an additional defense, not your ONLY DEFENSE.

A sorc cannot sustain Hardened ward, his main defense tool and here is the problem.

surge passive crit heals, twilight super strong burst heal more than coag and affects another target, your shield protects your pet and scales higher than light armor skills before cap, and it gives you a mag recovery passive, I'm not sure I understand your argument here.

If you truely think twilight heals more than coagulated blood after available class bonuses are applied you´re mistaken.
Also the twilight costs two slots for just healing and can die.
You should probably test both classes on pts before comparing the two - because on pts DK is miles ahead in the keeping itself alive department compared to sorc.

But otherwise you´re right - the problem about shields on pts is the cost not the size.

You're detracting away from the problem at hand, you have plenty of survival abilities in your toolkit and shields are not negligible to say the least, my friend is a sorc and I asked her how she felt, she agrees with me, shields aren't even kind of trash.

What survivability options do i have as a sorc.

Twilight heal is not worth the slots anymore. It´s bol for 2 slots on a class with no healing synergies that also dies.
Surge is meh if you don´t have dots - ironically if you slot dots one of them makes surge obsolete.
Sorc has absolutely no healing modifier accessible in their toolkit on top.

What other class survivability does sorc have.

Did your friend test sorc shields on pts against competent players - because i´ll happily duel her and give her the chance to reevaluate that opinion.
I can comfortably say that i´ve tested the sorc defensive toolkit on pts and compared it to templar, nb and dk - and even magblade is slightly ahead (though that is purely because cloak hardcounters dots and pts is all dot). DK and templar play in a different league.

So far i only see people that didn´t actually play the class tell people that did it´s gonna be fine.

You can stack your shield, light armor, and healing ward.
Dark conversion does a great burst and gives you sustain and doesn't even pull from your main resource
Crystal frags heal you each tick
Encase will heal you and give you major vitality
Twilight is still viable it does 3k every second by just being near something and still a FULL BOL heal, not one full and one half
Surge is still worth it and there is soul trap and flame reach dots which hurt the same as degen and even if you have two major sorc buffs surge is still worth it and degen is still worth it or use structured if you don't want the sustain, that's ANOTHER heal
You can use mutagen, hell, you can even use vigor this patch.
You can do all this WHILE streaking away which absorbs a projectile.

What do you have in your toolkit ? You have the best shield in the game that gives you minor intellect and allows you to stack, if I'm okay with harness magicka or even dampen and you have a better shield, what are you doing wrong, I've ran DK without Coagulating and still did fine, shields are not trash, they are far from it.

I could adress everything you´ve mentioned in here.
But it´s pointless because you´ve just showcased that you have absolutely no idea what you´re talking about and i´m not going to try to teach chess to a pidgeon.

Have a good life.

If you want to get some perspective on what you´ve tried there try to come up with a build that actually has enough shields healing and offensive power (without using healing ward - that´s cheating at this point and i don´t expect it to go live).

Teaching chess to a pigeon? Rude for one, I just gave you every single tool you have and you write it off as nothing.

Two I can make more than a few builds on any class and sorc is no exception, I don't even use a resto staff but considering mutagens power now.

Three, Shields got buffed by 10%, and still sorc is the only class that can run two shields which can be 100% of your health +.

You're hilarious.

Vortigaunt · July 2019

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

I tested on live and pts, that's why I added the fourth cost per damage reduction

You are playing one of the easiest class to sustain, relying on healing passives, burst heal and huge hot, the shield is for you an additional defense, not your ONLY DEFENSE.

A sorc cannot sustain Hardened ward, his main defense tool and here is the problem.

surge passive crit heals, twilight super strong burst heal more than coag and affects another target, your shield protects your pet and scales higher than light armor skills before cap, and it gives you a mag recovery passive, I'm not sure I understand your argument here.

If you truely think twilight heals more than coagulated blood after available class bonuses are applied you´re mistaken.
Also the twilight costs two slots for just healing and can die.
You should probably test both classes on pts before comparing the two - because on pts DK is miles ahead in the keeping itself alive department compared to sorc.

But otherwise you´re right - the problem about shields on pts is the cost not the size.

You're detracting away from the problem at hand, you have plenty of survival abilities in your toolkit and shields are not negligible to say the least, my friend is a sorc and I asked her how she felt, she agrees with me, shields aren't even kind of trash.

What survivability options do i have as a sorc.

Twilight heal is not worth the slots anymore. It´s bol for 2 slots on a class with no healing synergies that also dies.
Surge is meh if you don´t have dots - ironically if you slot dots one of them makes surge obsolete.
Sorc has absolutely no healing modifier accessible in their toolkit on top.

What other class survivability does sorc have.

Did your friend test sorc shields on pts against competent players - because i´ll happily duel her and give her the chance to reevaluate that opinion.
I can comfortably say that i´ve tested the sorc defensive toolkit on pts and compared it to templar, nb and dk - and even magblade is slightly ahead (though that is purely because cloak hardcounters dots and pts is all dot). DK and templar play in a different league.

So far i only see people that didn´t actually play the class tell people that did it´s gonna be fine.

You can stack your shield, light armor, and healing ward.
Dark conversion does a great burst and gives you sustain and doesn't even pull from your main resource
Crystal frags heal you each tick
Encase will heal you and give you major vitality
Twilight is still viable it does 3k every second by just being near something and still a FULL BOL heal, not one full and one half
Surge is still worth it and there is soul trap and flame reach dots which hurt the same as degen and even if you have two major sorc buffs surge is still worth it and degen is still worth it or use structured if you don't want the sustain, that's ANOTHER heal
You can use mutagen, hell, you can even use vigor this patch.
You can do all this WHILE streaking away which absorbs a projectile.

What do you have in your toolkit ? You have the best shield in the game that gives you minor intellect and allows you to stack, if I'm okay with harness magicka or even dampen and you have a better shield, what are you doing wrong, I've ran DK without Coagulating and still did fine, shields are not trash, they are far from it.

I could adress everything you´ve mentioned in here.
But it´s pointless because you´ve just showcased that you have absolutely no idea what you´re talking about and i´m not going to try to teach chess to a pidgeon.

Have a good life.

If you want to get some perspective on what you´ve tried there try to come up with a build that actually has enough shields healing and offensive power (without using healing ward - that´s cheating at this point and i don´t expect it to go live).

Teaching chess to a pigeon? Rude for one, I just gave you every single tool you have and you write it off as nothing.

Two I can make more than a few builds on any class and sorc is no exception, I don't even use a resto staff but considering mutagens power now.

Three, Shields got buffed by 10%, and still sorc is the only class that can run two shields which can be 100% of your health +.

You're hilarious.

100% of your health? What lmao

Sennecca · July 2019

Wow, reading through this, you'd think the entire game is pvp.

Jodynn · July 2019

Vortigaunt wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

I tested on live and pts, that's why I added the fourth cost per damage reduction

You are playing one of the easiest class to sustain, relying on healing passives, burst heal and huge hot, the shield is for you an additional defense, not your ONLY DEFENSE.

A sorc cannot sustain Hardened ward, his main defense tool and here is the problem.

surge passive crit heals, twilight super strong burst heal more than coag and affects another target, your shield protects your pet and scales higher than light armor skills before cap, and it gives you a mag recovery passive, I'm not sure I understand your argument here.

If you truely think twilight heals more than coagulated blood after available class bonuses are applied you´re mistaken.
Also the twilight costs two slots for just healing and can die.
You should probably test both classes on pts before comparing the two - because on pts DK is miles ahead in the keeping itself alive department compared to sorc.

But otherwise you´re right - the problem about shields on pts is the cost not the size.

You're detracting away from the problem at hand, you have plenty of survival abilities in your toolkit and shields are not negligible to say the least, my friend is a sorc and I asked her how she felt, she agrees with me, shields aren't even kind of trash.

What survivability options do i have as a sorc.

Twilight heal is not worth the slots anymore. It´s bol for 2 slots on a class with no healing synergies that also dies.
Surge is meh if you don´t have dots - ironically if you slot dots one of them makes surge obsolete.
Sorc has absolutely no healing modifier accessible in their toolkit on top.

What other class survivability does sorc have.

Did your friend test sorc shields on pts against competent players - because i´ll happily duel her and give her the chance to reevaluate that opinion.
I can comfortably say that i´ve tested the sorc defensive toolkit on pts and compared it to templar, nb and dk - and even magblade is slightly ahead (though that is purely because cloak hardcounters dots and pts is all dot). DK and templar play in a different league.

So far i only see people that didn´t actually play the class tell people that did it´s gonna be fine.

You can stack your shield, light armor, and healing ward.
Dark conversion does a great burst and gives you sustain and doesn't even pull from your main resource
Crystal frags heal you each tick
Encase will heal you and give you major vitality
Twilight is still viable it does 3k every second by just being near something and still a FULL BOL heal, not one full and one half
Surge is still worth it and there is soul trap and flame reach dots which hurt the same as degen and even if you have two major sorc buffs surge is still worth it and degen is still worth it or use structured if you don't want the sustain, that's ANOTHER heal
You can use mutagen, hell, you can even use vigor this patch.
You can do all this WHILE streaking away which absorbs a projectile.

What do you have in your toolkit ? You have the best shield in the game that gives you minor intellect and allows you to stack, if I'm okay with harness magicka or even dampen and you have a better shield, what are you doing wrong, I've ran DK without Coagulating and still did fine, shields are not trash, they are far from it.

I could adress everything you´ve mentioned in here.
But it´s pointless because you´ve just showcased that you have absolutely no idea what you´re talking about and i´m not going to try to teach chess to a pidgeon.

Have a good life.

If you want to get some perspective on what you´ve tried there try to come up with a build that actually has enough shields healing and offensive power (without using healing ward - that´s cheating at this point and i don´t expect it to go live).

Teaching chess to a pigeon? Rude for one, I just gave you every single tool you have and you write it off as nothing.

Two I can make more than a few builds on any class and sorc is no exception, I don't even use a resto staff but considering mutagens power now.

Three, Shields got buffed by 10%, and still sorc is the only class that can run two shields which can be 100% of your health +.

You're hilarious.

100% of your health? What lmao

dampen + empowered == 100% of my health, testing right now on PTS

Vortigaunt · July 2019

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

I tested on live and pts, that's why I added the fourth cost per damage reduction

You are playing one of the easiest class to sustain, relying on healing passives, burst heal and huge hot, the shield is for you an additional defense, not your ONLY DEFENSE.

A sorc cannot sustain Hardened ward, his main defense tool and here is the problem.

surge passive crit heals, twilight super strong burst heal more than coag and affects another target, your shield protects your pet and scales higher than light armor skills before cap, and it gives you a mag recovery passive, I'm not sure I understand your argument here.

If you truely think twilight heals more than coagulated blood after available class bonuses are applied you´re mistaken.
Also the twilight costs two slots for just healing and can die.
You should probably test both classes on pts before comparing the two - because on pts DK is miles ahead in the keeping itself alive department compared to sorc.

But otherwise you´re right - the problem about shields on pts is the cost not the size.

You're detracting away from the problem at hand, you have plenty of survival abilities in your toolkit and shields are not negligible to say the least, my friend is a sorc and I asked her how she felt, she agrees with me, shields aren't even kind of trash.

What survivability options do i have as a sorc.

Twilight heal is not worth the slots anymore. It´s bol for 2 slots on a class with no healing synergies that also dies.
Surge is meh if you don´t have dots - ironically if you slot dots one of them makes surge obsolete.
Sorc has absolutely no healing modifier accessible in their toolkit on top.

What other class survivability does sorc have.

Did your friend test sorc shields on pts against competent players - because i´ll happily duel her and give her the chance to reevaluate that opinion.
I can comfortably say that i´ve tested the sorc defensive toolkit on pts and compared it to templar, nb and dk - and even magblade is slightly ahead (though that is purely because cloak hardcounters dots and pts is all dot). DK and templar play in a different league.

So far i only see people that didn´t actually play the class tell people that did it´s gonna be fine.

You can stack your shield, light armor, and healing ward.
Dark conversion does a great burst and gives you sustain and doesn't even pull from your main resource
Crystal frags heal you each tick
Encase will heal you and give you major vitality
Twilight is still viable it does 3k every second by just being near something and still a FULL BOL heal, not one full and one half
Surge is still worth it and there is soul trap and flame reach dots which hurt the same as degen and even if you have two major sorc buffs surge is still worth it and degen is still worth it or use structured if you don't want the sustain, that's ANOTHER heal
You can use mutagen, hell, you can even use vigor this patch.
You can do all this WHILE streaking away which absorbs a projectile.

What do you have in your toolkit ? You have the best shield in the game that gives you minor intellect and allows you to stack, if I'm okay with harness magicka or even dampen and you have a better shield, what are you doing wrong, I've ran DK without Coagulating and still did fine, shields are not trash, they are far from it.

I could adress everything you´ve mentioned in here.
But it´s pointless because you´ve just showcased that you have absolutely no idea what you´re talking about and i´m not going to try to teach chess to a pidgeon.

Have a good life.

If you want to get some perspective on what you´ve tried there try to come up with a build that actually has enough shields healing and offensive power (without using healing ward - that´s cheating at this point and i don´t expect it to go live).

Teaching chess to a pigeon? Rude for one, I just gave you every single tool you have and you write it off as nothing.

Two I can make more than a few builds on any class and sorc is no exception, I don't even use a resto staff but considering mutagens power now.

Three, Shields got buffed by 10%, and still sorc is the only class that can run two shields which can be 100% of your health +.

You're hilarious.

100% of your health? What lmao

dampen + empowered == 100% of my health, testing right now on PTS

So you’re telling me that a regular sorc build which has around 28k+ health has enough magicka to push a 14k shield?

Lord-Otto · July 2019

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

I tested on live and pts, that's why I added the fourth cost per damage reduction

You are playing one of the easiest class to sustain, relying on healing passives, burst heal and huge hot, the shield is for you an additional defense, not your ONLY DEFENSE.

A sorc cannot sustain Hardened ward, his main defense tool and here is the problem.

surge passive crit heals, twilight super strong burst heal more than coag and affects another target, your shield protects your pet and scales higher than light armor skills before cap, and it gives you a mag recovery passive, I'm not sure I understand your argument here.

If you truely think twilight heals more than coagulated blood after available class bonuses are applied you´re mistaken.
Also the twilight costs two slots for just healing and can die.
You should probably test both classes on pts before comparing the two - because on pts DK is miles ahead in the keeping itself alive department compared to sorc.

But otherwise you´re right - the problem about shields on pts is the cost not the size.

You're detracting away from the problem at hand, you have plenty of survival abilities in your toolkit and shields are not negligible to say the least, my friend is a sorc and I asked her how she felt, she agrees with me, shields aren't even kind of trash.

What survivability options do i have as a sorc.

Twilight heal is not worth the slots anymore. It´s bol for 2 slots on a class with no healing synergies that also dies.
Surge is meh if you don´t have dots - ironically if you slot dots one of them makes surge obsolete.
Sorc has absolutely no healing modifier accessible in their toolkit on top.

What other class survivability does sorc have.

Did your friend test sorc shields on pts against competent players - because i´ll happily duel her and give her the chance to reevaluate that opinion.
I can comfortably say that i´ve tested the sorc defensive toolkit on pts and compared it to templar, nb and dk - and even magblade is slightly ahead (though that is purely because cloak hardcounters dots and pts is all dot). DK and templar play in a different league.

So far i only see people that didn´t actually play the class tell people that did it´s gonna be fine.

You can stack your shield, light armor, and healing ward.
Dark conversion does a great burst and gives you sustain and doesn't even pull from your main resource
Crystal frags heal you each tick
Encase will heal you and give you major vitality
Twilight is still viable it does 3k every second by just being near something and still a FULL BOL heal, not one full and one half
Surge is still worth it and there is soul trap and flame reach dots which hurt the same as degen and even if you have two major sorc buffs surge is still worth it and degen is still worth it or use structured if you don't want the sustain, that's ANOTHER heal
You can use mutagen, hell, you can even use vigor this patch.
You can do all this WHILE streaking away which absorbs a projectile.

What do you have in your toolkit ? You have the best shield in the game that gives you minor intellect and allows you to stack, if I'm okay with harness magicka or even dampen and you have a better shield, what are you doing wrong, I've ran DK without Coagulating and still did fine, shields are not trash, they are far from it.

I could adress everything you´ve mentioned in here.
But it´s pointless because you´ve just showcased that you have absolutely no idea what you´re talking about and i´m not going to try to teach chess to a pidgeon.

Have a good life.

If you want to get some perspective on what you´ve tried there try to come up with a build that actually has enough shields healing and offensive power (without using healing ward - that´s cheating at this point and i don´t expect it to go live).

Teaching chess to a pigeon? Rude for one, I just gave you every single tool you have and you write it off as nothing.

Two I can make more than a few builds on any class and sorc is no exception, I don't even use a resto staff but considering mutagens power now.

Three, Shields got buffed by 10%, and still sorc is the only class that can run two shields which can be 100% of your health +.

You're hilarious.

100% of your health? What lmao

dampen + empowered == 100% of my health, testing right now on PTS

Numbers, please.

Derra · July 2019

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

I tested on live and pts, that's why I added the fourth cost per damage reduction

You are playing one of the easiest class to sustain, relying on healing passives, burst heal and huge hot, the shield is for you an additional defense, not your ONLY DEFENSE.

A sorc cannot sustain Hardened ward, his main defense tool and here is the problem.

surge passive crit heals, twilight super strong burst heal more than coag and affects another target, your shield protects your pet and scales higher than light armor skills before cap, and it gives you a mag recovery passive, I'm not sure I understand your argument here.

If you truely think twilight heals more than coagulated blood after available class bonuses are applied you´re mistaken.
Also the twilight costs two slots for just healing and can die.
You should probably test both classes on pts before comparing the two - because on pts DK is miles ahead in the keeping itself alive department compared to sorc.

But otherwise you´re right - the problem about shields on pts is the cost not the size.

You're detracting away from the problem at hand, you have plenty of survival abilities in your toolkit and shields are not negligible to say the least, my friend is a sorc and I asked her how she felt, she agrees with me, shields aren't even kind of trash.

What survivability options do i have as a sorc.

Twilight heal is not worth the slots anymore. It´s bol for 2 slots on a class with no healing synergies that also dies.
Surge is meh if you don´t have dots - ironically if you slot dots one of them makes surge obsolete.
Sorc has absolutely no healing modifier accessible in their toolkit on top.

What other class survivability does sorc have.

Did your friend test sorc shields on pts against competent players - because i´ll happily duel her and give her the chance to reevaluate that opinion.
I can comfortably say that i´ve tested the sorc defensive toolkit on pts and compared it to templar, nb and dk - and even magblade is slightly ahead (though that is purely because cloak hardcounters dots and pts is all dot). DK and templar play in a different league.

So far i only see people that didn´t actually play the class tell people that did it´s gonna be fine.

You can stack your shield, light armor, and healing ward.
Dark conversion does a great burst and gives you sustain and doesn't even pull from your main resource
Crystal frags heal you each tick
Encase will heal you and give you major vitality
Twilight is still viable it does 3k every second by just being near something and still a FULL BOL heal, not one full and one half
Surge is still worth it and there is soul trap and flame reach dots which hurt the same as degen and even if you have two major sorc buffs surge is still worth it and degen is still worth it or use structured if you don't want the sustain, that's ANOTHER heal
You can use mutagen, hell, you can even use vigor this patch.
You can do all this WHILE streaking away which absorbs a projectile.

What do you have in your toolkit ? You have the best shield in the game that gives you minor intellect and allows you to stack, if I'm okay with harness magicka or even dampen and you have a better shield, what are you doing wrong, I've ran DK without Coagulating and still did fine, shields are not trash, they are far from it.

I could adress everything you´ve mentioned in here.
But it´s pointless because you´ve just showcased that you have absolutely no idea what you´re talking about and i´m not going to try to teach chess to a pidgeon.

Have a good life.

If you want to get some perspective on what you´ve tried there try to come up with a build that actually has enough shields healing and offensive power (without using healing ward - that´s cheating at this point and i don´t expect it to go live).

Teaching chess to a pigeon? Rude for one, I just gave you every single tool you have and you write it off as nothing.

Two I can make more than a few builds on any class and sorc is no exception, I don't even use a resto staff but considering mutagens power now.

Three, Shields got buffed by 10%, and still sorc is the only class that can run two shields which can be 100% of your health +.

You're hilarious.

100% of your health? What lmao

dampen + empowered == 100% of my health, testing right now on PTS

With 15k hp?

Or are you talking pve?

Vortigaunt · July 2019

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

I tested on live and pts, that's why I added the fourth cost per damage reduction

You are playing one of the easiest class to sustain, relying on healing passives, burst heal and huge hot, the shield is for you an additional defense, not your ONLY DEFENSE.

A sorc cannot sustain Hardened ward, his main defense tool and here is the problem.

surge passive crit heals, twilight super strong burst heal more than coag and affects another target, your shield protects your pet and scales higher than light armor skills before cap, and it gives you a mag recovery passive, I'm not sure I understand your argument here.

If you truely think twilight heals more than coagulated blood after available class bonuses are applied you´re mistaken.
Also the twilight costs two slots for just healing and can die.
You should probably test both classes on pts before comparing the two - because on pts DK is miles ahead in the keeping itself alive department compared to sorc.

But otherwise you´re right - the problem about shields on pts is the cost not the size.

You're detracting away from the problem at hand, you have plenty of survival abilities in your toolkit and shields are not negligible to say the least, my friend is a sorc and I asked her how she felt, she agrees with me, shields aren't even kind of trash.

What survivability options do i have as a sorc.

Twilight heal is not worth the slots anymore. It´s bol for 2 slots on a class with no healing synergies that also dies.
Surge is meh if you don´t have dots - ironically if you slot dots one of them makes surge obsolete.
Sorc has absolutely no healing modifier accessible in their toolkit on top.

What other class survivability does sorc have.

Did your friend test sorc shields on pts against competent players - because i´ll happily duel her and give her the chance to reevaluate that opinion.
I can comfortably say that i´ve tested the sorc defensive toolkit on pts and compared it to templar, nb and dk - and even magblade is slightly ahead (though that is purely because cloak hardcounters dots and pts is all dot). DK and templar play in a different league.

So far i only see people that didn´t actually play the class tell people that did it´s gonna be fine.

You can stack your shield, light armor, and healing ward.
Dark conversion does a great burst and gives you sustain and doesn't even pull from your main resource
Crystal frags heal you each tick
Encase will heal you and give you major vitality
Twilight is still viable it does 3k every second by just being near something and still a FULL BOL heal, not one full and one half
Surge is still worth it and there is soul trap and flame reach dots which hurt the same as degen and even if you have two major sorc buffs surge is still worth it and degen is still worth it or use structured if you don't want the sustain, that's ANOTHER heal
You can use mutagen, hell, you can even use vigor this patch.
You can do all this WHILE streaking away which absorbs a projectile.

What do you have in your toolkit ? You have the best shield in the game that gives you minor intellect and allows you to stack, if I'm okay with harness magicka or even dampen and you have a better shield, what are you doing wrong, I've ran DK without Coagulating and still did fine, shields are not trash, they are far from it.

I could adress everything you´ve mentioned in here.
But it´s pointless because you´ve just showcased that you have absolutely no idea what you´re talking about and i´m not going to try to teach chess to a pidgeon.

Have a good life.

If you want to get some perspective on what you´ve tried there try to come up with a build that actually has enough shields healing and offensive power (without using healing ward - that´s cheating at this point and i don´t expect it to go live).

Teaching chess to a pigeon? Rude for one, I just gave you every single tool you have and you write it off as nothing.

Two I can make more than a few builds on any class and sorc is no exception, I don't even use a resto staff but considering mutagens power now.

Three, Shields got buffed by 10%, and still sorc is the only class that can run two shields which can be 100% of your health +.

You're hilarious.

100% of your health? What lmao

dampen + empowered == 100% of my health, testing right now on PTS

With 15k hp?
Or are you talking pve?

Most likely pve

Jodynn · July 2019

22k health, this is in PvE land.

Jodynn · July 2019

Okay, I think I'm getting it now, why is sorc shield only 6k in cyro?

Derra · July 2019

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Okay, I think I'm getting it now, why is sorc shield only 6k in cyro?

Ok i have to apologize.

We simply talked past each other. I´ve exclusively talked pvp in this topic.
I´m fine with where it´s at in pve.

Rianai · July 2019

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Okay, I think I'm getting it now, why is sorc shield only 6k in cyro?

You just discovered something called battlespirit. It halves various things including shields in PvP.

Jodynn · July 2019

Yeah no, I get battlespirit, but with battlespirit on live right now the shield is much larger, they changed the way the "magicka" scales the shield and now it's only 6k? Okay yeah, shields are now complete trash.

Vortigaunt · July 2019

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Yeah no, I get battlespirit, but with battlespirit on live right now the shield is much larger, they changed the way the "magicka" scales the shield and now it's only 6k? Okay yeah, shields are now complete trash.

That’s what we all mean. But it’s ok because stamblade got their relentless nerf from last patch rolled back

Jodynn · July 2019

I also apologize @Derra , jesus, what did they do.

Jodynn · July 2019

43k mag 29k health, this is unacceptable

Lord-Otto · July 2019

Ah, that explains it. The cap increase was indeed a PvE buff. A quite clever one, actually.
But PvP... Hmmm...