[Werewolf Scalebreaker feedback] - "Why most of the changes are unjustified and needs tweaking"

FenrisWolf1136 · July 2019

liningtonsweldingb16_ESO wrote: »

FenrisWolf1136 wrote: »

liningtonsweldingb16_ESO wrote: »

Ok 1 more... if they add minor vulnerability to both versions of pounce I’ll lick my wounds and shut my mouth

Its gonna need to be a bit more than that. The Pack leader morph should not be rendered useless.

Both pack leader and berserker should do roughly the same damage but have different utilities or one morph will always overshadow the other. Which was a reason they gave for the change in the first place, then didn't stick to. It doesn't offer a choice. I don't plan on bringing a werewolf into a dungeon for utility like slows... I'm there to do as much damage as possible without dying. The tanks usually do the grouping, slows, and taunts with the help of the team sticking close. Best it will do is make sure enemies are not stacked properly for a moving group.

Yes but I’ll take anything at this point. Feels like nothing is going to happen to be honest

For sure. Knowing zos, its entirely possible its going to go live and not say a word about it. In which case i, like many, will probably take a break from the game and try again in an update or 2. Have to at least try. Even though its really is like talking to a brick wall when leaving feedback lol. Best hope is they find a better balance for our werewolves that doesn't grind them into oblivion.

Nefaras · July 2019

My wife, my friends (4 people) wanted to return to eso this month. But everything they do this patch seems like ***. Main dmg comes from weapons not from classes, classes have 0 identity and the changes for werewolf well ..kills it for me personal.

So we did not return and play ff14 shadowbringers instead

FenrisWolf1136 · July 2019

Nefaras wrote: »

My wife, my friends (4 people) wanted to return to eso this month. But everything they do this patch seems like ***. Main dmg comes from weapons not from classes, classes have 0 identity and the changes for werewolf well ..kills it for me personal.

So we did not return and play ff14 shadowbringers instead

Yeah. Completely understand that. These changes go live and I'm stepping out of the game for a bit until positive changes are made. Performance, balance, and stop nerfing ww's for heavens sakes, there isn't a point to it aside from they hurt in pvp if you don't counter them... Don't like seeing them in pve, too bad, they can be a viable asset in a lot of end game content. The end of last year, the team wanted to bring them back in a good way just to take major steps backwards patch after patch.

Like revert all changes to pack leader, buff their bleeds a small amount to keep them on par with berserkers damage. keep the pets untargetable by players and remove the damage to other players only. Then keep the buffed bleeds on the Berserker morph, add a utility like skills cost a bit less to use in this morph to give it some decent choice, and leave them alone until a meaningful, well thought out set of changes can be made that keeps werewolves viable in all content. Both endgame pve and pvp alike. A dedicated werewolf class of sorts would be nice if i were going over the top wishful thinking... 😂

Dashmatt · July 2019

I’m all about more interesting changes, but for this patch I’d just be happy if they reverted the heal cost increase (and left healing reduction, I guess) and returned the reduced bleed to pack leader. That morph is just bad.

ccfeeling · July 2019

Can someone post an optimized WW bleeding build video and the parse result ?
I think this is the only option for PVE WW during PTS and the future .

Pack leader ? Minor maim ? LA / HA hugh nerfed ? All cost huge increased ? Seriously ? Who's freaking idea ?

There is one thing very important , WW build is a bit different to other builds , WW build human form sucks , I really need to let the dev team understand the concept , we build it by sets and cp combination , who stam dps will use blood moon ? 2 pc Kena

If WW form DPS is weaker than the normal or meta build , there is no reason we transform into WW , it doesn't sense we spend so much Ultimate .

All my stam builds hit harder the current WW at LIVE .

Remember WW form has limited duration , the average DPS drop faster when we back to the human form , I have to tell the dev team AGAIN .

Chrlynsch · July 2019

ccfeeling wrote: »

Can someone post an optimized WW bleeding build video and the parse result ?
I think this is the only option for PVE WW during PTS and the future .

Pack leader ? Minor maim ? LA / HA hugh nerfed ? All cost huge increased ? Seriously ? Who's freaking idea ?

There is one thing very important , WW build is a bit different to other builds , WW build human form sucks , I really need to let the dev team understand the concept , we build it by sets and cp combination , who stam dps will use blood moon ? 2 pc Kena

If WW form DPS is weaker than the normal or meta build , there is no reason we transform into WW , it doesn't sense we spend so much Ultimate .

All my stam builds hit harder the current WW at LIVE .

Remember WW form has limited duration , the average DPS drop faster when we back to the human form , I have to tell the dev team AGAIN .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLiv19fjCk4&feature=youtu.be

ccfeeling · July 2019

Chrlynsch wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

Can someone post an optimized WW bleeding build video and the parse result ?
I think this is the only option for PVE WW during PTS and the future .

Pack leader ? Minor maim ? LA / HA hugh nerfed ? All cost huge increased ? Seriously ? Who's freaking idea ?

There is one thing very important , WW build is a bit different to other builds , WW build human form sucks , I really need to let the dev team understand the concept , we build it by sets and cp combination , who stam dps will use blood moon ? 2 pc Kena

If WW form DPS is weaker than the normal or meta build , there is no reason we transform into WW , it doesn't sense we spend so much Ultimate .

All my stam builds hit harder the current WW at LIVE .

Remember WW form has limited duration , the average DPS drop faster when we back to the human form , I have to tell the dev team AGAIN .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLiv19fjCk4&feature=youtu.be

Thanks the video .
Guess you using 2 hander , what about the sets option , will you consider other bleeding focus sets combination ?

And what's your point ? WW is OK or they need some love seriously ?

FenrisWolf1136 · July 2019

ccfeeling wrote: »

Can someone post an optimized WW bleeding build video and the parse result ?
I think this is the only option for PVE WW during PTS and the future .

Pack leader ? Minor maim ? LA / HA hugh nerfed ? All cost huge increased ? Seriously ? Who's freaking idea ?

There is one thing very important , WW build is a bit different to other builds , WW build human form sucks , I really need to let the dev team understand the concept , we build it by sets and cp combination , who stam dps will use blood moon ? 2 pc Kena

If WW form DPS is weaker than the normal or meta build , there is no reason we transform into WW , it doesn't sense we spend so much Ultimate .

All my stam builds hit harder the current WW at LIVE .

Remember WW form has limited duration , the average DPS drop faster when we back to the human form , I have to tell the dev team AGAIN .

Live pack leader morph (sorry its on console, im not cp 810 yet on pc.) 75k:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNlrdxlbhyc

And here are some quick tests from pts from what i end up landing most of the time:
Packleader Morph 54k (Usually closer to 60k but lag was a factor)
https://imgur.com/94kNMF9
Berserker Morph, Bleed build 65k (Its usually just above 70k but lag was really being a pain tonight)
https://imgur.com/r1HlT0K

Orcs hit a bit harder, but this is if i kept my build as a dragonknight nord. Which i plan on keeping. The Packleader morph got hit hard and is worthless, swapping to the berserker morph is the way to go on pts, but its still a pretty heavy Nerf from live. Werewolves need some love, thats for sure...

JusticeSouldier · July 2019

werewolfs deserved to be nerfed in curent form.
That thing i described before was about concept in general.
but if too say about current one, with its general tankiness, damage, animations and synergizing with others, it heavy deserved to be nerfed.
Or in damage, or in defence, or in healing.
Because of how Werewolf works in non cp pvp (and in cp maybe also but i don't polay much there with new campagn locks).
If to think about it's PvE efficiency, srry, but I guess we shouldn't care.
Easy mode (6 keys) should not overperform classic build with gear, bars, rotations.

And, I hope very much, my ask for changing it's concept with arguments was read by Zenimax.
Nowadays werewolf is extremly broken in battlegrounds, when someone support him with cleanse and healing.

FenrisWolf1136 · July 2019

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

werewolfs deserved to be nerfed in curent form.
That thing i described before was about concept in general.
but if too say about current one, with its general tankiness, damage, animations and synergizing with others, it heavy deserved to be nerfed.
Or in damage, or in defence, or in healing.
Because of how Werewolf works in non cp pvp (and in cp maybe also but i don't polay much there with new campagn locks).
If to think about it's PvE efficiency, srry, but I guess we shouldn't care.
Easy mode (6 keys) should not overperform classic build with gear, bars, rotations.

And, I hope very much, my ask for changing it's concept with arguments was read by Zenimax.
Nowadays werewolf is extremly broken in battlegrounds, when someone support him with cleanse and healing.

You're right, they shouldn't overperform in pve. They never have. But they should be on par with a damage dealing class. They are built to do damage just like any other class. It takes work to get them there. Is there a hard rotation, no. But there are trade offs. Dont like the playstyle, then don't play it. Want them nerfed because you don't think they should do as well as a class built for the same reason, that's just silly. While rotation is way simpler, we dont have range. We have to work around a timer that runs out bringing 70k dps down to 30ish (being generous) instantly. They come with their own challenges. Does not make them any less worthy to be in endgame pve content. Whether you consider it easy mode or not. As for pvp, are some of the changes Justified, sure. Won't argue some of them for that, but i dont tend to have ww issues in battlegrounds very often.

Qbiken · July 2019

werewolfs deserved to be nerfed in curent form.

Only thing that needed tweaking was the potency of the heal (aka how much it heals for) and targetting issues against pack-leader, the rest of the toolkit is fine.

Nowadays werewolf is extremly broken in battlegrounds, when someone support him with cleanse and healing.

This statement is true for literally any setup in the game. Anyone with a dedicated healer/"guardbot" is very difficult to deal with.

but if too say about current one, with its general tankiness, damage, animations and synergizing with others, it heavy deserved to be nerfed.

Werewolf synergise with group-play but become much, much weaker in outnumbered situations compared than any other non-werewolf setup.

Easy mode (6 keys) should not overperform classic build with gear, bars, rotations.

Weakest argument I´ve seen so far. You can zone-chat PUG vDLC pledges on HM with 4 DD´s these days. I can make a 1-bar petsorc setup that uses wall of elements + Heavy attack with Lightning staff and it will be more effective than a werewolf DPS and requires even less "effort" to play with.

Because of how Werewolf works in non cp pvp (and in cp maybe also but i don't polay much there with new campagn locks).

CP Werewolf >>>>>>> no-cp werewolf. And once again, low MMR BG´s and sub 50 BG are bad benchmarks to use when balancing things.

Stop acting like werewolf is some widespread "cheese" that is abused by a majority of the playerbase, because it isn´t. I still see people who think that werewolfs can pull 70k+ DPS by just light attacking (on a non-raid target dummy) because of how werewolf DPS worked in Wolfhunter (werewolfs barely touch the 80k mark on a raid-target dummy, compared to everyone else who reaches closer to 100k)
Same thing with PvP where some people un-ironically think that werewolf is unbalanced because of the enchantbugs that happened in Murkmire. People make complains about werewolfs because they lack insight about it and aren´t updated on their mechanics.

And in Scalebreaker, everyone is getting insanely good selfheals in terms of vigor, rapid regen or healing ward, while werewolf is left with a ridicilously costly heal that won´t keep you alive against anyone with a brain, even less so in outnumbered situations. Werewolf´s defensive and offensive capacities are balanced because they lack any form of AoE pressure (claws of anguish/Life is barely considered a good AoE tool) and have no way to deal with DoTs or snares + it´s a god damn ultimate. Why would I ever use an ultimate (that requires more effort to make it work than most people want to admit) if I don´t get any edge against my enemy?

Your previous suggestions in this thread are just more ways to nerf werewolf (even tho you claim it´s the opposite, your suggestions are just further nerfs).

Wuuffyy · July 2019

Qbiken wrote: »

werewolfs deserved to be nerfed in curent form.

Only thing that needed tweaking was the potency of the heal (aka how much it heals for) and targetting issues against pack-leader, the rest of the toolkit is fine.

Nowadays werewolf is extremly broken in battlegrounds, when someone support him with cleanse and healing.

This statement is true for literally any setup in the game. Anyone with a dedicated healer/"guardbot" is very difficult to deal with.

but if too say about current one, with its general tankiness, damage, animations and synergizing with others, it heavy deserved to be nerfed.

Werewolf synergise with group-play but become much, much weaker in outnumbered situations compared than any other non-werewolf setup.

Easy mode (6 keys) should not overperform classic build with gear, bars, rotations.

Weakest argument I´ve seen so far. You can zone-chat PUG vDLC pledges on HM with 4 DD´s these days. I can make a 1-bar petsorc setup that uses wall of elements + Heavy attack with Lightning staff and it will be more effective than a werewolf DPS and requires even less "effort" to play with.

Because of how Werewolf works in non cp pvp (and in cp maybe also but i don't polay much there with new campagn locks).

CP Werewolf >>>>>>> no-cp werewolf. And once again, low MMR BG´s and sub 50 BG are bad benchmarks to use when balancing things.

Stop acting like werewolf is some widespread "cheese" that is abused by a majority of the playerbase, because it isn´t. I still see people who think that werewolfs can pull 70k+ DPS by just light attacking (on a non-raid target dummy) because of how werewolf DPS worked in Wolfhunter (werewolfs barely touch the 80k mark on a raid-target dummy, compared to everyone else who reaches closer to 100k)
Same thing with PvP where some people un-ironically think that werewolf is unbalanced because of the enchantbugs that happened in Murkmire. People make complains about werewolfs because they lack insight about it and aren´t updated on their mechanics.

And in Scalebreaker, everyone is getting insanely good selfheals in terms of vigor, rapid regen or healing ward, while werewolf is left with a ridicilously costly heal that won´t keep you alive against anyone with a brain, even less so in outnumbered situations. Werewolf´s defensive and offensive capacities are balanced because they lack any form of AoE pressure (claws of anguish/Life is barely considered a good AoE tool) and have no way to deal with DoTs or snares + it´s a god damn ultimate. Why would I ever use an ultimate (that requires more effort to make it work than most people want to admit) if I don´t get any edge against my enemy?

Your previous suggestions in this thread are just more ways to nerf werewolf (even tho you claim it´s the opposite, your suggestions are just further nerfs).

Agreed

Tommy_The_Gun · July 2019

Sorry for of-topic, but if you see someone troll-like talking gibberish that is only trying to trigger ppl, then simply ignore it. The thread will stay longer alive and "open" that way.

Anyway, The "math" YouTuber did a video on PTS WW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q0zVyDW1DY
Basically saying: If you are using Pack Leader, Switch to WW Berserker, but even then you will have no place in PvE.

I also assume, that even if the guy is probably referring to vet dungeons, pugging normal dungeons will also be difficult, as pugs tend to follow the meta, so the moment you transform to WW, you will get kicked....

(just a grim prediction).

Which is what I would like to ask:
Pack Leader is now trash in both PvE & PvP.
Werewolf Berserker is now simply not worth it in PvE and (because of bleed changes) probably in PvP too.

So basically... what is its purpose ? I mean use-case ? You know, aside from RP, why would any one even use WW at all ?
Vamps can be used for both PvE & PvP (and in 99% they are mandatory for that), but WW is not even close to non - WW on live, and after next patch it will be even further...

Don't you see the paradox ? WW as an ultimate ability is the most expensive one in game, but at the same it is the.. worst.. ultimate in game.

ccfeeling · July 2019

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Sorry for of-topic, but if you see someone troll-like talking gibberish that is only trying to trigger ppl, then simply ignore it. The thread will stay longer alive and "open" that way.

Anyway, The "math" YouTuber did a video on PTS WW:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q0zVyDW1DY
Basically saying: If you are using Pack Leader, Switch to WW Berserker, but even then you will have no place in PvE.

I also assume, that even if the guy is probably referring to vet dungeons, pugging normal dungeons will also be difficult, as pugs tend to follow the meta, so the moment you transform to WW, you will get kicked.... (just a grim prediction).

Which is what I would like to ask:
Pack Leader is now trash in both PvE & PvP.
Werewolf Berserker is now simply not worth it in PvE and (because of bleed changes) probably in PvP too.

So basically... what is its purpose ? I mean use-case ? You know, aside from RP, why would any one even use WW at all ?
Vamps can be used for both PvE & PvP (and in 99% they are mandatory for that), but WW is not even close to non - WW on live, and after next patch it will be even further...

Don't you see the paradox ? WW as an ultimate ability is the most expensive one in game, but at the same it is the.. worst.. ultimate in game.

I think the same

JusticeSouldier · July 2019

Qbiken wrote: »

Your previous suggestions in this thread are just more ways to nerf werewolf (even tho you claim it´s the opposite, your suggestions are just further nerfs).

my suggestions are about redesign.
It can mean nerf in some aspects and/or make them stronger in another.
actually i don't care what name have smart changes.
clear?

Qbiken · July 2019

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Your previous suggestions in this thread are just more ways to nerf werewolf (even tho you claim it´s the opposite, your suggestions are just further nerfs).

my suggestions are about redesign.
It can mean nerf in some aspects and/or make them stronger in another.
actually i don't care what name have smart changes.
clear?

Werewolfs never needed a redesign, they needed minor changes and bugfixes. Been saying that since wolfhunter was released.

liningtonsweldingb16_ESO · July 2019

Justice soldier im sorry but you seem clueless don’t derail this thread with bad suggestions please

EtTuBrutus · July 2019

You can be immortal as a ww on live while still doing group enough group smg to focus players down.

Good riddance.

Qbiken · July 2019

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

You can be immortal as a ww on live while still doing group enough group smg to focus players down.

Good riddance.

You can be "immortal" as any non-werewolf setup as well (and do good damage), so what´s your point?

FenrisWolf1136 · July 2019

Qbiken wrote: »

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Your previous suggestions in this thread are just more ways to nerf werewolf (even tho you claim it´s the opposite, your suggestions are just further nerfs).

my suggestions are about redesign.
It can mean nerf in some aspects and/or make them stronger in another.
actually i don't care what name have smart changes.
clear?

Werewolfs never needed a redesign, they needed minor changes and bugfixes. Been saying that since wolfhunter was released.

Right? They still haven't fixed the bug from when you bite someone, the animation doesn't play. That would be nice to have fixed at some point. But yeah, some good stat changes and bug fixes would be great.

They don't need it, but i would not opposed to a "redesign" if it could expand on them and give werewolves a larger tool set while keeping a similar feel though. Something with a longer timer so i can keep werewolf form up in march of sacrifices through the entire indrik hunt and make full use of the boon to be immune to their teleport magic... 😅

ZOS_RogerJ · July 2019

Greetings! Just a friendly reminder, per the community rules, that it’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

Chrlynsch · July 2019

ccfeeling wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

Can someone post an optimized WW bleeding build video and the parse result ?
I think this is the only option for PVE WW during PTS and the future .

Pack leader ? Minor maim ? LA / HA hugh nerfed ? All cost huge increased ? Seriously ? Who's freaking idea ?

There is one thing very important , WW build is a bit different to other builds , WW build human form sucks , I really need to let the dev team understand the concept , we build it by sets and cp combination , who stam dps will use blood moon ? 2 pc Kena

If WW form DPS is weaker than the normal or meta build , there is no reason we transform into WW , it doesn't sense we spend so much Ultimate .

All my stam builds hit harder the current WW at LIVE .

Remember WW form has limited duration , the average DPS drop faster when we back to the human form , I have to tell the dev team AGAIN .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLiv19fjCk4&feature=youtu.be

Thanks the video .
Guess you using 2 hander , what about the sets option , will you consider other bleeding focus sets combination ?

And what's your point ? WW is OK or they need some love seriously ?

The dps will be very similar whatever combination you choose to use two hander or dual wield.

You could drop Bloodmoon for Tooth of Lokkestiiz and achieve very Similar dps.

You asked what was my point... Just posting a video of a optimized werewolf dps. As you requested.

But since you asked.

OPINIONS INBOUND

If werewolf were to gain a unique debuff to go on their leap. I think something like increase dot damage by 8% for 10 seconds

Pack leader should drop the direwolves and move to something more thematic.

Adds an additional 20% to the call of the pack bonus for werewolves in your group. (Bringing the total up to 100%, or perma wolf.)
Allies in your group also gain 8% addional direct damage to their attacks.

Pack leader for solo play would have a more manageable timer but lower dps.

In group play they would provide a powerful boon to a group or raid. That would increase overall raid dps enough to make up for their lower dps values.

Thematically and min/max, you wouldn't want to bring more than one pack leader to a raid or pvp group as their buffs wouldn't stack.

Due to the variable nature and needs of group composition I would make one unusual request. Allow werewolves to change ult morph at any time. So when you make up a new group you can easily establish who is the packleader and who will be Berserker, without a trip to the shrine every time you switch content or group comp (Switching ults while transformed will make you lose your form and revert to human form as it does now).

Keep the nerf to LA and changes in damage/ cost on stamina abilities.

Hircine's heal should be changed from a %based heal to a HOT so they play much more like a stamina base class. Make it cost 25% more than vigor and heal 25% more.

Have it cost stamina and the utility fear skill cost Magicka.

This matches ZOS vision for werewolf.

Drachdhar · July 2019

RIP Werewolf... Back to being a RP only thing like it was at launch.

Wuuffyy · July 2019

Drachdhar wrote: »

RIP Werewolf... Back to being a RP only thing like it was at launch.

Yep

JusticeSouldier · July 2019

liningtonsweldingb16_ESO wrote: »

Justice soldier im sorry but you seem clueless don’t derail this thread with bad suggestions please

Who's that "Justice soldier"?

castem · July 2019

Rather than killing off the Pack Leader morph, how about we increase its utility even further by making the morph true to its name?

Here's my idea: Pack Leader creates two direwolves that not only attack nearby enemies, but also follow your lead.

This means that when you Pounce, they lunge. When you howl and heal yourself with Hircine's Bounty, they do the same, healing allies around them. When you let out a Roar or Piercing Howl, they follow up with a roar or howl of their own (which may have different effects based on your skill morphs, like a Deafening Roar follow-up applying Major Breach).

The idea is that while Berserker might have higher raw damage, Pack Leader lets you lead direwolves in combat - ultimately improving your skills in other ways.

I honestly don't know if this would be enough to make up the huge difference in damage between the two morphs, but I think it'd certainly be more interesting than what's currently on the PTS.

Wolfchild07 · July 2019

I'm actually curious what people here think marketing would think about not just the werewolf changes, but all the changes/nerfs that the combat team is making. Surely, people are going to feel less inclined to spend money with constant nerfs like this. I for one, won't be giving another cent to ZOS if these changes go through to live.

I'm really put off playing even now on live because I know what's coming. I only really play because I play the game with my siblings.

Tommy_The_Gun · July 2019

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

I'm actually curious what people here think marketing would think about not just the werewolf changes, but all the changes/nerfs that the combat team is making.

Just a silly prediction / conspiracy theory, but: They will nerf WW hard, most ppl will switch to vamp, and as soon as WW skill line (fully levelled) will hit the Crown Store, they will buff WW.
I mean look at guild skill line changes...

Qbiken · July 2019

FenrisWolf1136 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Your previous suggestions in this thread are just more ways to nerf werewolf (even tho you claim it´s the opposite, your suggestions are just further nerfs).

my suggestions are about redesign.
It can mean nerf in some aspects and/or make them stronger in another.
actually i don't care what name have smart changes.
clear?

Werewolfs never needed a redesign, they needed minor changes and bugfixes. Been saying that since wolfhunter was released.

Right? They still haven't fixed the bug from when you bite someone, the animation doesn't play. That would be nice to have fixed at some point. But yeah, some good stat changes and bug fixes would be great.

They don't need it, but i would not opposed to a "redesign" if it could expand on them and give werewolves a larger tool set while keeping a similar feel though. Something with a longer timer so i can keep werewolf form up in march of sacrifices through the entire indrik hunt and make full use of the boon to be immune to their teleport magic... 😅

The reason I say werewolf doesn't need a redesign is because everytime werewolf get any overhaul or "too much attention", it ends up with new bugs and impaired functionality.

From what I can tell (based on experience and bug-testing werewolf since pre-wolfhunter), werewolf is a mess when it comes to coding and implementing new things, and it's obvious that ZOS can't deal with it properly (I don't know anything about coding/programming so not claiming it's an easy task).

Just look at Wrathstone where ZOS literally failed to fix a bug with the Pursuit passive didn't restore enough stamina + didn't interact correctly with off-balance effect (you can check my discussion/topic history if you're interested in reading about it). Instead of fixing the bug, ZOS changed the Pursuit passive to appeal correctly to the new bug (hence why Pursuit is 50% more stamina return and not 100% as it used to be)

This is just one of many examples that occurs with werewolfs. And the more ZOS mess with it, the more bugs appear.

And regarding Marches of Sacrifice:
I always found it ridiculous that you never had the ability to have permanent werewolf form inside Hircine's realm. If anything, Marches of Sacrifice should allow permanent werewolf form as a unique feature.

FenrisWolf1136 · July 2019

Qbiken wrote: »

FenrisWolf1136 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Your previous suggestions in this thread are just more ways to nerf werewolf (even tho you claim it´s the opposite, your suggestions are just further nerfs).

my suggestions are about redesign.
It can mean nerf in some aspects and/or make them stronger in another.
actually i don't care what name have smart changes.
clear?

Werewolfs never needed a redesign, they needed minor changes and bugfixes. Been saying that since wolfhunter was released.

Right? They still haven't fixed the bug from when you bite someone, the animation doesn't play. That would be nice to have fixed at some point. But yeah, some good stat changes and bug fixes would be great.

They don't need it, but i would not opposed to a "redesign" if it could expand on them and give werewolves a larger tool set while keeping a similar feel though. Something with a longer timer so i can keep werewolf form up in march of sacrifices through the entire indrik hunt and make full use of the boon to be immune to their teleport magic... 😅

The reason I say werewolf doesn't need a redesign is because everytime werewolf get any overhaul or "too much attention", it ends up with new bugs and impaired functionality.

From what I can tell (based on experience and bug-testing werewolf since pre-wolfhunter), werewolf is a mess when it comes to coding and implementing new things, and it's obvious that ZOS can't deal with it properly (I don't know anything about coding/programming so not claiming it's an easy task).

Just look at Wrathstone where ZOS literally failed to fix a bug with the Pursuit passive didn't restore enough stamina + didn't interact correctly with off-balance effect (you can check my discussion/topic history if you're interested in reading about it). Instead of fixing the bug, ZOS changed the Pursuit passive to appeal correctly to the new bug (hence why Pursuit is 50% more stamina return and not 100% as it used to be)

This is just one of many examples that occurs with werewolfs. And the more ZOS mess with it, the more bugs appear.

And regarding Marches of Sacrifice:
I always found it ridiculous that you never had the ability to have permanent werewolf form inside Hircine's realm. If anything, Marches of Sacrifice should allow permanent werewolf form as a unique feature.

Oh, i get that entirely. Seems to be the pattern nailed on the head there.

I am a gameplay programmer myself, so some of the bugs i see and run into set off an almost compulsive need to fix them, but can't do anything about it. Drives me crazy. From my little bit of experience, sometimes a fresh start and step back to redesign something is what it needs. Some bugs just don't want to be found and that sometimes gets them. Every team handles it differently.

But yeah, I'm fine with just simple changes for now too, i don't want to end up with more bugs either. I just don't want to rule out an option that could prove beneficial at a later time. Might not, but i always hope.

And right!? I'd love it if you had a way to stay in ww form permanently in the wolfhunter content. Would make some things a tad easier. Not having to juggle up time to make sure your doing the most you can for your group at all times would save a lot of time, effort, and sanity. The amount of times I've been 1 shot while falling out of form because of having to play a mechanic... lost a deathless run or 2 to that.

Ill also check out that thread on the passive. Not something i think i know about so I'm curious as to what that all entails.