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Magicka Sorcerers Growing Hate @ PVP
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CambionDaemon✭✭✭Lord_Eomer wrote: »CambionDaemon wrote: »Shields in PvP take one hit, two tops. If a Sorc (or any class) is stacking shields then they are not doing damage to you.
With the changes to PetSorcs, they have no pressure while casting their shields.
Yes shield stacking is an issue, and the correct way to balance it would be Major/Minor levels.
That all being said, if you cannot kill a Sorcerer nowadays, then it is not the class.
You never play as sorc or just see a sorc playing,
Shield stacking and huge damage this is what they do.
I am a proper Sorcerer (no pets), have been from launch. I have never shield stacked and the huge damage (what!) from Sorc is the most telegraphed burst in the game, if you cannot survive it, then you need to evaluate your build and playstyle.
Hint: when you see the purple could around you, count to two and block.3 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1) If a sorc is shield stacking constantly while under attack, they are not doing any damage. It takes 3 seconds to apply 3 shields and by the time you apply the last shield, your first two shields are gone while under pressure. And if you cannot do enough damage to a sorc to remove their shields, you aren't do enough damage to kill anyone in PVP.
2) I do not understand the mindset that some people have where they think they are entitled to catch an opponent who is fleeing from them. If a sorc is streaking away, maybe don't follow them? If any player is running away from you and you can't catch them, maybe stop following them. If you can't 1v1 the player you are foolishly chasing, maybe stop following them.
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Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭That shield stacking arguement is getting so old. People keep repeating it over and over again, apparently believing repeating it often enough will make it correct and themselves look smart.
Pretty much everything that has to be said regarding how flawed and clueless your reasoning is has been said. The only thing you got right is the problem of the ZOO absorbing many attacks - especially from ranged builds. As for the rest, time to read up on mechanics - for the beginning I'd recommend the earth-shattering paper called "Holy S***, shields are not the only thing that can be stacked" that has been released after over 5 years of research on ESO combat mechanics.5 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That shield stacking arguement is getting so old. People keep repeating it over and over again, apparently believing repeating it often enough will make it correct and themselves look smart.
Pretty much everything that has to be said regarding how flawed and clueless your reasoning is has been said. The only thing you got right is the problem of the ZOO absorbing many attacks - especially from ranged builds. As for the rest, time to read up on mechanics - for the beginning I'd recommend the earth-shattering paper called "Holy S***, shields are not the only thing that can be stacked" that has been released after over 5 years of research on ESO combat mechanics.
Players whisper and accuse me of "shield stacking" even when I only use ONE shield. People just say it now without having any idea what they are talking about.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE6 -
CambionDaemon✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »That shield stacking arguement is getting so old. People keep repeating it over and over again, apparently believing repeating it often enough will make it correct and themselves look smart.
Pretty much everything that has to be said regarding how flawed and clueless your reasoning is has been said. The only thing you got right is the problem of the ZOO absorbing many attacks - especially from ranged builds. As for the rest, time to read up on mechanics - for the beginning I'd recommend the earth-shattering paper called "Holy S***, shields are not the only thing that can be stacked" that has been released after over 5 years of research on ESO combat mechanics.
Players whisper and accuse me of "shield stacking" even when I only use ONE shield. People just say it now without having any idea what they are talking about.
Same, and with shields being so weak nowadays it does make me chuckle.2 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I mean, on live you're right. I don't recommend any further nerfs until we see how they perform after these balance changes though. I am concerned about the changes to healing ward though.2 -
kalunte✭✭✭✭✭Sorc's growing hate is just like nb/sniper's hate. it'll always be there, even if you're the only one in your team in bg, or in the entire cyro the one who kills you will most likely T-bag your corpse. even if you're doing less dmg and utility ever.
figure out how to deal with it, it has nothing to do with skills efficiency or whatever, some peeps behind their screen need to throw their hate from their sofa to feel better.
/hug2 -
ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lord_Eomer wrote: »Have you actually played a sorc or against one on the pts?
The class is nerfed pretty hard. I´m sorry but if you still think sorcs on pts come even remotely close to OP territory in any form or shape the problem isn´t with the sorc class.
Sorc see only shield and pets nerf which will not solve issues,
Pets were never a problem for me in PVP but Shield Stacking is.
I'm laughing in slight shock to this comment.
Why at this point you just don't argue that ZoS removes Sorc class because your bubu hurts.
Also i always wander how come ppl that argue shields are to strong and they can't kill them never have problems with, lets say stamDK that has so much healing, there is no way you could ever kill him by yourself. Why is always shields OP and never healing OP, which in some cases is most certainly so. Arguably you need to invest/sacrifice less in/for OP heals then OP shields, again example stamDK.
-->Just poped into my head. DK doesn't have mobility to survive and evade eventual overwhelm by hungry zerg, while Sorc can. Might be it!
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sharquez✭✭✭✭✭
✭You should probably find another game to play. You just might not be cut out for this one. I for instance suck at battle royale games so maybe something like that where everyone is more or less on equal footing is up your alley. Its okay to not be great at something but trampling on someone else's fun because of your lack of mastery just is poor form, and quite frankly a waste of effort.1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Offense: Curse+Matriarch+flamereach+frags+fury+soulassault/ Defense: Matriarch+ward+mist+streak show me other class with such reliable combos in Elsweyr patch..
It's not question of "hate", this is simply WTF.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yup. Said so. If there's one thing in life you can be sure of, it's that people will ALWAYS hate on sorcs. Always.
It's not a matter of balancing or something. It really just is unchecked hatred for the class. But what is new?
*shrugs*1 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Live is one thing, PTS is another. Some pretty big nerfs down the pipeline for petsorc and OG magsorcs are gonna get hit by them too. On live petsorcs deserve to be hunted but I'll always have a soft spot for the OG's not using petsPC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP0 -
SORjosh✭✭✭I just want to know why they nerfed shieldbreaker :'( ...... It was the best counter to sorcs shield stacking for me. I paid a lot of gold for my sets too lol. Bring shieldbreaker back to its former glory0 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »That shield stacking arguement is getting so old. People keep repeating it over and over again, apparently believing repeating it often enough will make it correct and themselves look smart.
Pretty much everything that has to be said regarding how flawed and clueless your reasoning is has been said. The only thing you got right is the problem of the ZOO absorbing many attacks - especially from ranged builds. As for the rest, time to read up on mechanics - for the beginning I'd recommend the earth-shattering paper called "Holy S***, shields are not the only thing that can be stacked" that has been released after over 5 years of research on ESO combat mechanics.
Players whisper and accuse me of "shield stacking" even when I only use ONE shield. People just say it now without having any idea what they are talking about.
Ive had people hate whisper me when I too only run 1 shield and dont even run a defensive set/protective. Too many bad players have access to these forums and their voices count the same as people who actually know what they are doing.6 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I mean, on live you're right. I don't recommend any further nerfs until we see how they perform after these balance changes though. I am concerned about the changes to healing ward though.
That daus is saying they shouldn´t nerf the class further pretty much means it´s absolutely rekt on pts
<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 5014 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »Live is one thing, PTS is another. Some pretty big nerfs down the pipeline for petsorc and OG magsorcs are gonna get hit by them too. On live petsorcs deserve to be hunted but I'll always have a soft spot for the OG's not using pets
Pets are liability in open world this patch. Kill the flying *** and line up a burst. Guaranteed kill every single time.
There are zero advantages in playing one and are free AP right now0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It just cracks me up when people complain about LOS and pets. Jeez, do we nerf terrain next and play on a perfectly flat surface? Stupid trees and rocks have negated more of my damage over the years than Sorc pets. Sorc's used to be a lot more powerful than they are today and people still beat them.
At want point do you just say hey, maybe I need to find an easier game?3 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I killed a streaking pet sorc on a magden last night, ON LIVE!. Nerf magden apparently.2 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I mean, on live you're right. I don't recommend any further nerfs until we see how they perform after these balance changes though. I am concerned about the changes to healing ward though.
That daus is saying they shouldn´t nerf the class further pretty much means it´s absolutely rekt on pts
I want every class to be competitive. Magsorcs have been overperforming for quite some time so yes I'm for the nerfs they received, but I don't want them to be weak. I don't like streak being unblockable though. Curse, Fury, meteor, streak seems like a pretty unfair combo.0 -
jecks33✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lol people asking for more nerf before actual nerfs are online
next setp is asking zos to remove sorcs from the game?PC-EU2 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭People complaining about streak, when it is the only ability in the game that has cost increase. Only reason it is overpowered is because people get mad that they didn't build enough speed to chase the sorc or just slot a gap closer. Especially with gap closers reworked they are 10x easier to run down sorc's with if you have trouble.
Shield stacking is a temporary form of tanking that gets countered by getting disrupted in your rotation or being burnt out completely. By nature most sorc's will be wasting resources recasting anyways. I can't remember the last time I had trouble with a shield stacking sorc.
To counter pets, literally just get better at aiming. I have no problems with pets and I run on a SS dizzy build.
I can't remember the last time I had any trouble with a sorc using endless fury either, usually it is just on my death recap after being run down by 10 or so people. Personally I would blame my death on the fact that there was 10 or so people, instead of saying that 2k endless fury is OP wahhhhhh.
General counter to a magsorc killing you is to literally look at the curse debuff and dodge or block when it goes off, most of their abilities get timed with that.2 -
Sarousse✭✭✭✭✭
✭Did you notice that they reduced the streak penalty to 33% instead of 50% ?
This only point shows that some PvP dev is playing magicka sorc and buffing it more and more.2 -
Murador178✭✭✭✭I think I never spoke alot in favor of magicka sorcs. I am glad they nerfed twillight (even so they probalby made it completely useless in PvP - making it nontargetable and reducing the damage a bit would have been a better change).
The shields nerfs go in the wrong direction - they should have nerfed shieldstacking not forcing sorcs more into shieldstacking.
Overall my personal impression from pts testing is that sorc will be quite weak in the upcoming patch and just needs a rework.
ZOS in total needs to stop with the homgenization of classes. Sorc should be a high damage/high mobility class with low defense - for me atleast - but in reality sorcs are a one trick pony trying to burst with the same combo since ages spamming shields without pressure.
Last patches sorc was strong but the most boring class to play after some heroic slash spammer stacking defensive buffs.Edited by Murador178 on July 19, 2019 5:13PM0 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭I mean, on live you're right. I don't recommend any further nerfs until we see how they perform after these balance changes though. I am concerned about the changes to healing ward though.
That daus is saying they shouldn´t nerf the class further pretty much means it´s absolutely rekt on pts
I want every class to be competitive. Magsorcs have been overperforming for quite some time so yes I'm for the nerfs they received, but I don't want them to be weak. I don't like streak being unblockable though. Curse, Fury, meteor, streak seems like a pretty unfair combo.
That's four skills you listed there for a kill. Next patch you will need to just spam surprise attack after onslaught. It will about who can mash those 2 braindead skills faster4 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭They made it 33% so it would be closer to dodge roll fatigue
Unlike dodge roll, streak will sometimes not move you at all, stop you from casting all abilities for a few seconds, and take your mag. With resource bugs sometimes you will even be charged twice for the same ability cast, which can be a complete waste and get you killed anyways.
Just be happy most spammed abilities don't have cost increases
BOL spammers
Cloak spammers
Wings spammers(mostly removed)
Gap close spammers
jabs spammers
surprise attack spammers (soon to be ravager nbs)2 -
Murador178✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »I mean, on live you're right. I don't recommend any further nerfs until we see how they perform after these balance changes though. I am concerned about the changes to healing ward though.
That daus is saying they shouldn´t nerf the class further pretty much means it´s absolutely rekt on pts
I want every class to be competitive. Magsorcs have been overperforming for quite some time so yes I'm for the nerfs they received, but I don't want them to be weak. I don't like streak being unblockable though. Curse, Fury, meteor, streak seems like a pretty unfair combo.
That's four skills you listed there for a kill. Next patch you will need to just spam surprise attack after onslaught. It will about who can mash those 2 braindead skills faster
The typical medium armor Nightblade isnt profitting from this patch at all - buffs to dots, hots. Incap nerfed again, better fear for everybody, less tankyness from assasins will, major evasion from rallye. Onslaught synergizes extremely well with dots - nb isnt known for those. Killing people with a delay on ult and ur frontloaded burst will be hard except they are complete potatoes.
If u die to onslaught SA ur doing for sure something wrong.
@Daus Ur sorc combo will kill squishy builds nothing else
Edited by Murador178 on July 19, 2019 5:30PM4 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »I mean, on live you're right. I don't recommend any further nerfs until we see how they perform after these balance changes though. I am concerned about the changes to healing ward though.
That daus is saying they shouldn´t nerf the class further pretty much means it´s absolutely rekt on pts
I want every class to be competitive. Magsorcs have been overperforming for quite some time so yes I'm for the nerfs they received, but I don't want them to be weak. I don't like streak being unblockable though. Curse, Fury, meteor, streak seems like a pretty unfair combo.
That's four skills you listed there for a kill. Next patch you will need to just spam surprise attack after onslaught. It will about who can mash those 2 braindead skills faster
Yup and only 1 of the skills I mentioned you can dodge. The others you just point and click; allowing magsorcs to remain as a talentless class. It would be nice if they'd raise the skill ceiling and lower the floor for that class.
Meanwhile the scenario you gave me about the stamblade has a great deal of counterplay available.2
