Oblivions Foe?

IronWooshu · July 2019

I'm away for work and curious how the set Oblivions Foe now works, 1000 wpn and spell damage? How is it performing and how does it work? Does wpn and spell damage increase the lower the targets health or?

ItsNotLiving · July 2019

It adds 1000 weapon and spell damage to soul trap and it’s morphs

Seraphayel · July 2019

Be sure it’s way worse than 100% damage on Soul Trap. I’d say it’s worse enough to never be considered an option whereas before the nerf it could have created some very interesting builds.

kojou · July 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

Be sure it’s way worse than 100% damage on Soul Trap. I’d say it’s worse enough to never be considered an option whereas before the nerf it could have created some very interesting builds.

100% was broken when combined with some other things that stacked with it.

I would like to have seen the set viable in some other way though. Maybe give some useful buff while soul trap is active.

Red_Feather · July 2019

1000 weapon damage on a single skill isn't attractive enough to use a whole set.

I feel the same way as Kojou! When a new player gets to cold harbour and this set drops it should excite them to try it out.

IronWooshu · July 2019

Oh its only on the skill? I thought maybe they changed it to 1000 weapon and spell damage on the target effected by soul trap.

I was thinking I could just soul trap people for 1000 spell damage on my Magplar.

Finedaible · July 2019

IronWooshu wrote: »

Oh its only on the skill? I thought maybe they changed it to 1000 weapon and spell damage on the target effected by soul trap.

I was thinking I could just soul trap people for 1000 spell damage on my Magplar.

Now that would be broken. That'd be like Spell Strategist on major steroids.

I'm not sure about this change though. 1000 spell/wpn dmg seems like a nerf (?). I'm not sure. Maybe they should have reduced the % to something lower like 50-75%? Seems like it is intended to be a sustain set for when using Consuming Trap.

Seraphayel · July 2019

kojou wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Be sure it’s way worse than 100% damage on Soul Trap. I’d say it’s worse enough to never be considered an option whereas before the nerf it could have created some very interesting builds.

100% was broken when combined with some other things that stacked with it.

I would like to have seen the set viable in some other way though. Maybe give some useful buff while soul trap is active.

It still was just one single skill. This set has been killed now, again, after it saw the light of day for like one week. There could have been other adjustments than this very hard nerf to it but 1000 Spell/Weapon damage for one skill as a 5p bonus? Trash.

Lokey0024 · July 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Be sure it’s way worse than 100% damage on Soul Trap. I’d say it’s worse enough to never be considered an option whereas before the nerf it could have created some very interesting builds.

100% was broken when combined with some other things that stacked with it.

I would like to have seen the set viable in some other way though. Maybe give some useful buff while soul trap is active.

It still was just one single skill. This set has been killed now, again, after it saw the light of day for like one week. There could have been other adjustments than this very hard nerf to it but 1000 Spell/Weapon damage for one skill as a 5p bonus? Trash.

No I win button. So sorry, try again.

LinearParadox · July 2019

Yet another cool set idea that was dumpstered before it even hit live, off to join the growing pile of trash sets that literally no one uses.

Nerhesi · July 2019

For this set to be anywhere near useful it needs to affect soul assault/shatter. Perhaps this is a good way to make it a niche set? Because currently it’ll be as untouched as before.

This is especially true given the significant nerf to the damage (over time) and ult cost of the ultimate

Seraphayel · July 2019

Add Soul Shatter/Assault to the 5p bonus and double the amount of spell damage and you might have a niche set for niche builds.

It’s quite a nice idea to add the Ultimate to it, maybe open a new thread just for that suggestion and Zenimax will listen. @Nerhesi

Finedaible · July 2019

Nerhesi wrote: »

For this set to be anywhere near useful it needs to affect soul assault/shatter. Perhaps this is a good way to make it a niche set? Because currently it’ll be as untouched as before.

This is especially true given the significant nerf to the damage (over time) and ult cost of the ultimate

This is an interesting idea, especially since the ult was terrible before this patch, and even worse now. However, I think the ultimate would need to adapt to physical or magic damage like Soul Trap does in order to be useful.

Kadoozy · July 2019

Just to give a little insight, my tooltip for soultrap was roughly 24-25k using two dps sets. Changing one of those sets out just for the new Oblivions Foe made the tooltip go to about 28 or 29k. So not significant enough to waste a whole 5 piece on it. I give rough estimates because I only remember it increasing the damage by a few thousand and it really wasn't worth remembering. The set is dumpstered again and everyone can go on pretending it doesn't exist.

Kolzki · July 2019

After a week on pts of being mildly useful for niche builds, the set is back in the running for the title of worst set in the game. Given the choice of oblivions foe or spelunker I would chose spelunker every time.

Nerhesi · July 2019

Yup - basically the only way oblivion’s for would be useful (and interesting) would be to have it significantly affect the DPS of the entire soul magic line in a significant manner, or add a major but significant effect and effect dps in a minor manor.

Example:

5 - piece set bonus - increase soul magic damage by 20% AND

gain 500 magicka/stamina/health recovery while channeling soul assault

OR

Remove 3 negative effects from you when you cast a soul magic spell (5 second cooldown)

OR

Gain major ward/major resolve for 10 seconds (10 second cool down)

OR

Affect the target with major breach and magicka (or life) steal

...

Basically This is if you want it to be anywhere near competitive...

And I bet you it still wouldn’t be. The dps put out by weaving cancelling will still outshine this without you having to wear a set absolutely dedicate. However it would then be close to torugs pact or so. Some niche builds would rock it for a very specific cool scenerio but it would not be broken in BGs or cyrodill or PVE

WrathOfInnos · July 2019

The set was uselessly weak even when it was 100% more damage. Even after the buff, Soul Trap is about 5% of DPS in any decent rotation. Doubling that adds another 5% DPS from a 5-piece set. Pretty much any set currently used offers more than that, even the most basic like Julianos and Hundings. Then consider the terrible 2,3, and 4 piece set bonuses (one of each resource recovery) and I don’t see why anyone would use it even in 5.1.0.

The change to it adding 1000 Spell Damage to the one skill brings it down to a 15-20% increase to that one skill, or around 1% DPS gain from the 5-piece bonus. Lol.

Revokus · July 2019

This set was fine after testing on a magnecro with 48k magicka ( necropotence, pirate skeleton, oblivion’s foe) It was barely hurting my stamsorc friend in duels and it did help magnecro sustained Dps.

But again it was nerfed because of broken stam damage with crazy high tooltips...

What a shame.

Finedaible · July 2019

yeah, 1000 weapon or spell damage on one skill just doesn't justify using this 5-piece set which doesn't grant you much else. If the 1000 weapon or spell damage also applied to Soul strike, then it might have some value for niche builds built around "Soul Magic" but in its current form it has lost all its flavor. It's sad b/c this set could have fundamentally changed the way we used the soul magic skill-line by the time we reach Coldharbour, which could have been a much needed diversity and depth to builds.

LiquidPony · July 2019

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

The set was uselessly weak even when it was 100% more damage. Even after the buff, Soul Trap is about 5% of DPS in any decent rotation. Doubling that adds another 5% DPS from a 5-piece set. Pretty much any set currently used offers more than that, even the most basic like Julianos and Hundings. Then consider the terrible 2,3, and 4 piece set bonuses (one of each resource recovery) and I don’t see why anyone would use it even in 5.1.0.

The change to it adding 1000 Spell Damage to the one skill brings it down to a 15-20% increase to that one skill, or around 1% DPS gain from the 5-piece bonus. Lol.

Soul Trap is more like 10% of total DPS in stamina parses. It's usually the #3 source of DPS after Rapid Strikes and Light Attacks.

danno8 · July 2019

LiquidPony wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

The set was uselessly weak even when it was 100% more damage. Even after the buff, Soul Trap is about 5% of DPS in any decent rotation. Doubling that adds another 5% DPS from a 5-piece set. Pretty much any set currently used offers more than that, even the most basic like Julianos and Hundings. Then consider the terrible 2,3, and 4 piece set bonuses (one of each resource recovery) and I don’t see why anyone would use it even in 5.1.0.

The change to it adding 1000 Spell Damage to the one skill brings it down to a 15-20% increase to that one skill, or around 1% DPS gain from the 5-piece bonus. Lol.

Soul Trap is more like 10% of total DPS in stamina parses. It's usually the #3 source of DPS after Rapid Strikes and Light Attacks.

Well if your effective weapon damage is 8000 (say 4.5k weapon damage and 35k stamina) then bumping that to 9000 is around a 12% increase in that one skill. 12% of 10% would be an increase of 1.2% DPS, like he said.

Murador178 · July 2019

Because of the mediocre 4 piece this set would have probably not even been worth it to use with the old effect - only on niche builds. But they are also introducing new sets proccing on interrupts even so there are almost no interuptable spells in the game ...

Muzzick · July 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

Be sure it’s way worse than 100% damage on Soul Trap. I’d say it’s worse enough to never be considered an option whereas before the nerf it could have created some very interesting builds.

Even Oblivions foe could not avoid being nerfed into Oblivion

leepalmer95 · July 2019

Ppl acting like casual 60-70k tooltips were ok because they were 'unique'.

People on this forum will do anything to keep cheese they can be carried by.

Seraphayel · July 2019

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ppl acting like casual 60-70k tooltips were ok because they were 'unique'.

People on this forum will do anything to keep cheese they can be carried by.

The only cheese here were these cheesed tooltips. Sheogorath would appreciate.

susmitds · July 2019

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ppl acting like casual 60-70k tooltips were ok because they were 'unique'.

People on this forum will do anything to keep cheese they can be carried by.

I have a 41k Dizzying swing tooltip build. Does that make Dizzying Swing OP? No, cause tooltip builds are unviable builds just meant to cheese tooltips with zero stats in anything else.

Nerhesi · July 2019

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ppl acting like casual 60-70k tooltips were ok because they were 'unique'.

People on this forum will do anything to keep cheese they can be carried by.

I had a near 60k tool-tip on it, and even in BGs - it did not kill someone (even with 500 balorgh) who was in medium armor. This is simply because when you learn to cancel/weave, you can easily defensively out-perform it's tool tip.

In fact, if you did it at the wrong time (as in the target wasn't already pressured xv1), odds are you can be killed DURING your so-called cheese channel if you maintain it. Because you have 4 or so seconds of no defence.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · July 2019

Nerhesi wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ppl acting like casual 60-70k tooltips were ok because they were 'unique'.

People on this forum will do anything to keep cheese they can be carried by.

I had a near 60k tool-tip on it, and even in BGs - it did not kill someone (even with 500 balorgh) who was in medium armor. This is simply because when you learn to cancel/weave, you can easily defensively out-perform it's tool tip.

In fact, if you did it at the wrong time (as in the target wasn't already pressured xv1), odds are you can be killed DURING your so-called cheese channel if you maintain it. Because you have 4 or so seconds of no defence.

you are confused. the set did not and does not buff the ultimate, "soul assault", what you seem to be talking about with "so-called cheese channel ", the set ONLY buffs the skill "soul trap". and before the set was nerfed, it was 60-70k over 10 seconds, or 6-7k every second, 3-4k in pvp, before other resists. hardly the same as the ultimate.

Nerhesi · July 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Nerhesi wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ppl acting like casual 60-70k tooltips were ok because they were 'unique'.

People on this forum will do anything to keep cheese they can be carried by.

I had a near 60k tool-tip on it, and even in BGs - it did not kill someone (even with 500 balorgh) who was in medium armor. This is simply because when you learn to cancel/weave, you can easily defensively out-perform it's tool tip.

In fact, if you did it at the wrong time (as in the target wasn't already pressured xv1), odds are you can be killed DURING your so-called cheese channel if you maintain it. Because you have 4 or so seconds of no defence.

you are confused. the set did not and does not buff the ultimate, "soul assault", what you seem to be talking about with "so-called cheese channel ", the set ONLY buffs the skill "soul trap". and before the set was nerfed, it was 60-70k over 10 seconds, or 6-7k every second, 3-4k in pvp, before other resists. hardly the same as the ultimate.

No - you're confused. I clearly knew that and indicated that for this set to be viable, it would need to buff the entire line AND do something more.

I made no mention of the set, at all, in my response above. I was addressing the fact that even a 60-70k tooltip (before battlespirit) does not make this a powerful ult.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · July 2019

Nerhesi wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Nerhesi wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ppl acting like casual 60-70k tooltips were ok because they were 'unique'.

People on this forum will do anything to keep cheese they can be carried by.

I had a near 60k tool-tip on it, and even in BGs - it did not kill someone (even with 500 balorgh) who was in medium armor. This is simply because when you learn to cancel/weave, you can easily defensively out-perform it's tool tip.

In fact, if you did it at the wrong time (as in the target wasn't already pressured xv1), odds are you can be killed DURING your so-called cheese channel if you maintain it. Because you have 4 or so seconds of no defence.

you are confused. the set did not and does not buff the ultimate, "soul assault", what you seem to be talking about with "so-called cheese channel ", the set ONLY buffs the skill "soul trap". and before the set was nerfed, it was 60-70k over 10 seconds, or 6-7k every second, 3-4k in pvp, before other resists. hardly the same as the ultimate.

No - you're confused. I clearly knew that and indicated that for this set to be viable, it would need to buff the entire line AND do something more.

I made no mention of the set, at all, in my response above. I was addressing the fact that even a 60-70k tooltip (before battlespirit) does not make this a powerful ult.

Yes, you are right, in your first post you did say that but the person you are repling to is not talking about the ulti. They are talking about the skill. No idea what is making you bring up the ulti. Even if the set did buff the ulti, it would be closer to 150k over the course of the channel, the 100% buff to the skill. That would be insane.

WrathOfInnos · July 2019

LiquidPony wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

The set was uselessly weak even when it was 100% more damage. Even after the buff, Soul Trap is about 5% of DPS in any decent rotation. Doubling that adds another 5% DPS from a 5-piece set. Pretty much any set currently used offers more than that, even the most basic like Julianos and Hundings. Then consider the terrible 2,3, and 4 piece set bonuses (one of each resource recovery) and I don’t see why anyone would use it even in 5.1.0.

The change to it adding 1000 Spell Damage to the one skill brings it down to a 15-20% increase to that one skill, or around 1% DPS gain from the 5-piece bonus. Lol.

Soul Trap is more like 10% of total DPS in stamina parses. It's usually the #3 source of DPS after Rapid Strikes and Light Attacks.

Yeah, I'm now seeing some stam parses where this is the case (using vMA dual wield to buff the DoT). Still, even if the set did double the damage on Soul Trap (not sure if it did when it was 100%, given multiplicative vs additive calculations) the 5pc would add at most 10% DPS. It still would only be 10% + 1 useful lower set bonus (if you can even call stam recovery useful in the Lava Foot meta). Compare that to Relequen or Lokkestiiz, both of which have a proc that gives 10% DPS + 4 useful lower set bonuses (2-4pc and an extra 5pc on the Perfected version). Sure Oblivion's Foe would be much easier to use than these 2 sets, but it would still fall short on DPS by 3 set bonuses. I don't expect that it would have been used by the top players (maybe for trash pulls with the Splitting morph?), and would definitely have "raised the floor" by giving a semi-decent crafted option for those who cannot access Perfected trials sets or use them effectively.