Nerf to Pirate skeleton but not Bloodspawn?
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GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Can we just stop nerfing PvE things because of PvP? PvP in this game absolutely suck and no pro-gamer gives a flying f about it. There is no chance this game gets to esports so there is zero need to balance whole game around PvP. Answer is separate balancing for PvE and PvP but ZoS is too stubborn (or lazy?) to do it.
Show me your BS PvE build5 -
kromegas✭✭✭Am I happy with the nerf? No. Do I understand the nerfs, yes.
Magsorc running the following: 5 BTB, 5 Necro and 2 Pirate. All jewelry PROTECTIVE (saving my transmute crystals now as we speak), double bloody Mara drink, all impen. With self buffs I have 46k mag, 29k health, 12k Stam, 1700 recovery, 2.6k spell damage and 25k resistances in LIGHT ARMOR. When PS procs (which is all the time) the build is almost unkillable- and it still does a ton of damage.
Now- I GOLDED out everything, but you will NOT see a complaint here. I am looking forward to the challenge of theory crafting and coming up with something new and different. Honestly, this build is kind of stale (and boring). I feel like though I have to run it because of how awesome it is...
Looking forward to the new challenge. And seriously, not worth complaining over.
Servers though....that’s a different story.1 -
JackAshes✭✭✭Mid Summer Clearance! Everything must be Nerfed!
Chunky this is our reward to replace our mid year Mayhem. A buffet of nerfs with a heaping pile of more nerfs. And it’s not enough for some People to eat off the buffet they pull out the menu and order a fresh order of nerfs
Anyone else full? Hell no bring me my desert nerf!
Edited by JackAshes on July 16, 2019 12:25PM2 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭We've proved one thing. Stamina pvp players are more active on the forums. Defending what they want and nerfing magicka.5 -
Raudgrani✭✭✭✭✭
✭-its easy to farm, especially being an OG set compared to arguably some of the new monster sets that are MUCH better but impossible to farm.
Haven't found what is changing for Pirate Skeleton, so I don't know. But what sets are way better and "impossible to farm"? I have every monster set in the game, all weights of most, but I can't think of any better than these two for their particular purpose.0 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭We've proved one thing. Stamina pvp players are more active on the forums. Defending what they want and nerfing magicka.
Yo know bs isn't that bad on a mag either-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....2 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Of course Bloodspawn is OP (for PvP), go look at how many streamers/youtubers, etc put out builds for PvP where bloodspawn is the choice (HINT: it is more than even pirate skeleton and no it is not just DK), there is a reason for that and it isn't because it is balanced.Edited by Sylosi on July 16, 2019 12:33PM3 -
Zer0_CooL✭✭✭✭✭
✭Of course Bloodspawn is OP (for PvP), go look at how many streamers/youtubers, etc put out builds for PvP where bloodspawn is the choice (HINT: it is more than even pirate skeleton and no it is not just DK), there is a reason for that and it isn't because it is balanced.
According to that logic, armor master and shackle breaker need to be nerfed asap..8 -
Massacre_Wurm✭✭✭✭✭How about nerfing some DAMAGE ? You can start with proc sets in no cp especially.
Why you always going for defence and utility ?Am I happy with the nerf? No. Do I understand the nerfs, yes.
Magsorc running the following: 5 BTB, 5 Necro and 2 Pirate. All jewelry PROTECTIVE (saving my transmute crystals now as we speak), double bloody Mara drink, all impen. With self buffs I have 46k mag, 29k health, 12k Stam, 1700 recovery, 2.6k spell damage and 25k resistances in LIGHT ARMOR. When PS procs (which is all the time) the build is almost unkillable- and it still does a ton of damage.
Now- I GOLDED out everything, but you will NOT see a complaint here. I am looking forward to the challenge of theory crafting and coming up with something new and different. Honestly, this build is kind of stale (and boring). I feel like though I have to run it because of how awesome it is...
Looking forward to the new challenge. And seriously, not worth complaining over.
Servers though....that’s a different story.
Sure , because everyone playing CP PVP. Who cares about BGs ?0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Of course Bloodspawn is OP (for PvP), go look at how many streamers/youtubers, etc put out builds for PvP where bloodspawn is the choice (HINT: it is more than even pirate skeleton and no it is not just DK), there is a reason for that and it isn't because it is balanced.
According to that logic, armor master and shackle breaker need to be nerfed asap..
Add weapon/spell damage jewelry glyphs, tristat enchants, nirnhoned/sharpened/precise weapons, and literally anything common to that list.4 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Can we just stop nerfing PvE things because of PvP? PvP in this game absolutely suck and no pro-gamer gives a flying f about it. There is no chance this game gets to esports so there is zero need to balance whole game around PvP. Answer is separate balancing for PvE and PvP but ZoS is too stubborn (or lazy?) to do it.
Show me your BS PvE build
This is one of the most common monster sets for tanks. But whatever, let's nerf tanks. Let's nerf everything. That's what you want, you are that kind of person.2 -
Massacre_Wurm✭✭✭✭✭Of course Bloodspawn is OP (for PvP), go look at how many streamers/youtubers, etc put out builds for PvP where bloodspawn is the choice (HINT: it is more than even pirate skeleton and no it is not just DK), there is a reason for that and it isn't because it is balanced.
Using this logic Hunding rage isnt balanced. Also Mother sorrow , necropotence , briarheart , zaan , siroria , god's devotion , vMA weapon. We should nerf it ASAP.
Also skills like caltrops , endless hail , dawnbreaker , etc. Because every stam build using it.8 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Massacre_Wurm wrote: »Of course Bloodspawn is OP (for PvP), go look at how many streamers/youtubers, etc put out builds for PvP where bloodspawn is the choice (HINT: it is more than even pirate skeleton and no it is not just DK), there is a reason for that and it isn't because it is balanced.
Using this logic Hunding rage isnt balanced. Also Mother sorrow , necropotence , briarheart , zaan , siroria , god's devotion , vMA weapon. We should nerf it ASAP.
Also skills like caltrops , endless hail , dawnbreaker , etc. Because every stam build using it.
You know how much damage light attacks do? Let's remove them entirely. Omg, even spells do some damage so I would rather remove them too. Maybe fist fight naked will be fun to play
Edited by Olupajmibanan on July 16, 2019 1:14PM3 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭UndeniablyAVG wrote: »IMO, Blood Spawn should be used as a benchmark to buff the other sets. This set is great and has many different applications, but I don’t think it’s OP and needs a nerf. More monster sets should be on par with it so there’s more choice.
Agreed. Bloodspawn only gives an opportunity (faster ultimates) that the player still has to capitalize on. It's not free damage and it's not free healing, plus it's useful to both mag and stam.5 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I dont think bs is overperforming. Its strong and therefore a popular choice, also because it compliments most builds both mag and stam, id rather see other monstersets changed/buffed then anything done to bs.
PC EU
PvP only1 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭When will people learn that popular things can just be popular without being overpowered...4 -
Blackbird_V✭✭✭✭✭
✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »I play stamdk.
Betty
Jcm
Hit and a miss
So, let me get this straight. You're playing the one class, no the one sub-class in this game, that synergises with Bloodspawn the most, and you're crying about how apparently OP it is?
I swear, each time I *** read these forums, it's like being beat over the head with a mallet by a *** bodybuilder, that's how many brain cells I lose.
Isnt it crazy that some1 isnt biased in these forums? Did you lose more at the revelation?
Blyatspawn is REALLY strong in some cases. It's strong on StamDK's that already get a good amount of healing done and resistances, with bloodspawn that goes up more. The ult gain is strong since Dragon Leap/Take Flight costs nothing - so more ult gain - more Dragon Leap/Take Flight which = damage and burst resources from Battle Roar passive.
Any other class I don't see how it's too strong. 6k resist is like 3% damage reduction, rather than 30% that fuckwit skeleton helm gives.
So does it need a nerf? I don't see a reason why. It's strong on DK, hardly anyone else. Does DK need a nerf? Not really they've seen enough, they need to suffer some indirect nerfs, and maybe take a look at Dragon Leap morph Take Flight Since 110 ultimate for that is bit too strong.Edited by Blackbird_V on July 16, 2019 1:29PMDifficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game.2 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Massacre_Wurm wrote: »Of course Bloodspawn is OP (for PvP), go look at how many streamers/youtubers, etc put out builds for PvP where bloodspawn is the choice (HINT: it is more than even pirate skeleton and no it is not just DK), there is a reason for that and it isn't because it is balanced.
Using this logic Hunding rage isnt balanced. Also Mother sorrow , necropotence , briarheart , zaan , siroria , god's devotion , vMA weapon. We should nerf it ASAP.
Also skills like caltrops , endless hail , dawnbreaker , etc. Because every stam build using it.
No that just shows you don't understand the logic because you don't understand the difference between the use of Bloodspawn and most other things.
Take your Necropotence example, sure that is a strong set for a limited set of magicka builds on a limited number of classes, something being strong for a very limited number of builds in itself is not a signal something is OP. Bloodspawn on the other hand is so good it gets picked for a multitude of builds across classes on both magicka and staminia for PvP, why? Because it is too good.
I hate to break it to you, but in games if you have something that has a decent number of options like 40(?) monster sets and a huge number of players are all using one or two of those, then that is a pretty clear indication that those sets are OP relative to the rest.Edited by Sylosi on July 16, 2019 1:48PM0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Massacre_Wurm wrote: »Of course Bloodspawn is OP (for PvP), go look at how many streamers/youtubers, etc put out builds for PvP where bloodspawn is the choice (HINT: it is more than even pirate skeleton and no it is not just DK), there is a reason for that and it isn't because it is balanced.
Using this logic Hunding rage isnt balanced. Also Mother sorrow , necropotence , briarheart , zaan , siroria , god's devotion , vMA weapon. We should nerf it ASAP.
Also skills like caltrops , endless hail , dawnbreaker , etc. Because every stam build using it.
No that just shows you don't understand the logic because you don't understand the difference between the use of Bloodspawn and most other things.
Take your Necropotence example, sure that is a strong set for a limited set of magicka builds on a limited number of classes, something being strong for a very limited number of builds in itself is not a signal something is OP. Bloodspawn on the other hand is so good it gets picked for a multitude of builds across classes on both magicka and staminia for PvP, why? Because it is too good.
I hate to break it to you, but in games if you have something that has a decent number of options like 40(?) monster sets and a huge number of players are all using one or two of those, then that is a pretty clear indication that those sets are OP relative to the rest.
Or the rest are trash... which they are. Of all the monster sets in the game, the only ones really worth running, aside from Bloodspawn, are:- Balorgh -- Damage potential is nuts on classes where you combo around your ultimate, such as Warden or NB.
- Troll King -- The amount of health recovery this monster set gives is pretty damn good, and it's so damn easy to proc.
- Valkyn Skoria -- Solid burst on any builds with a few DOT's, but unfortunately is now telegraphed, so people can dodge or block it easily.
There's a few more that are decent on certain builds and in certain situations, such as Chudan on magsorc for some extra bar space, or Shadowrend in duels, but the rest are at best mediocre, and at worst complete trash, most sit somewhere between these two.
Looking at the 4 monster sets that are actually good, including Bloodspawn, you can see why Bloodspawn is generally preferred. The two offensive ones are build specific -- Balorgh is only good if you can combo around your ultimate and most of the damage is behind the ultimate, Skoria is only good if you have multiple DOT's to maximise the uptime -- and the other defensive one is only helpful for the pure healing, when you really need the mitigation on top of the healing.
Bloodspawn is in a pretty good spot, because it has an alright uptime -- not the best, but not the worst -- and it's giving you stats that actually require playing around. Resistance is meaningless if you don't have the healing to pull your health back up, and they're not that strong anyways, the 6450 resists that Bloodspawn provides is only ~9.7% mitigation, compared to the 30% that Pirate Skele provides. Ultimate is also meaningless if you don't use it effectively, so the 14 ultimate isn't that strong by itself.Edited by jcm2606 on July 16, 2019 2:06PM6 -
Burtan✭✭✭✭BloodSpawn isn't overperforming in any way...In PvP, BloodSpawn isn't being overused
Really? For nearly every Stam pvp player, this is the go to set. Always has been. Now, it's a toss up between Balorgh and Bloodspawn. Occasionally Troll King. But in the end, every Stam comes back to Bloodspawn. It's just too good to pass up. Not only is the mitigation large, but the Ulti gen is op. Oh, yeah. It was nerfed once from 15 Ulti to 14. lol.
The only thing that makes bloodspawn stand out is the ulti gen which requires a lot of incoming damage sources at which point it starts to really outperform other sources of ulti gen, this is what makes this set the better choice when expecting to be outnumbered. If its stronger when outnumbered that's fine, In an even fight its on the same level as other sets.Edited by Burtan on July 16, 2019 2:09PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bloodspawn only has a 6% chance to proc resistances and ulti, which is affected my penetration, Major Protection had very little counters.
With the nerfs to the heavy armor sets that proc weapon damage, many will choose to wear medium instead.
This is pretty much it. The set bonus each provides is extremely different.
Good point concerning the counters. It is easy to suggest thing are similar as was done in the OP until it's pointed out how different they are.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bloodspawn only has a 6% chance to proc resistances and ulti, which is affected my penetration, Major Protection had very little counters.
With the nerfs to the heavy armor sets that proc weapon damage, many will choose to wear medium instead.
This is pretty much it. The sets are very differentGeorgeBlack wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »STOP nerving changing stuff constantly with only pvp in mind! if you nerf something for pvp then at the same time buff it for pve so not to ruin it - the pvp population in this game is much smaller than the pve population - and i understand they want things changed - but do so while not ruin stuff for the pve players - you will not sustain this game with only the pvp players
This game is sustained by casuals and crown store.
Show me your BS build for pve
The person you quoted is correct. This game is supported mostly by PvE from casuals to hard core raiders.
The proof of this is obvious. Besides the clear fact that Zos keeps adding PvE zones, dungeons and trials (including vet HM) there is the painful aspect that Zos was not successful in monetizing PvP as the BGs had to be moved to the base game. No reason for a vet trial, let alone HM, if this game was just casuals.
I would also suggest Cyrodiil PvP is pretty casual since it is not designed to be competitive.1 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't understand why bloodspawn doesn't have a longer CD or different proc condition because with DoTs and all the other effects out there its almost always up and literally free ulti gen. It was the go-to set for me when lights champion still gave major protection, is the go-to set when ulti-dumping, the go-to set for zergball healing in light armor, etc.
But lets keep pretending it's not a problem. Let's say its not a problem in this day and age because it's been in the game for a long time, despite everything else that has been and got nerfed.
I honestly cannot understand how ZOS continually allows 2-piece bonuses to be better than 5-pieces, but hey, maybe they will finally start adding some consistency this patch.3 -
LuxLunae✭✭✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Why not?
It is being used by the most broken builds. Nerf this one too.
No complaining about Pirate Skeleton from me.
bloodspawn is working as intended....
No really that's the only thing that keeps me sane in pvp...i'll have to go back to lad wahden...standing in one place not being able to move with my templar rune and now in the new update...circle of protection.... and let me toss on top of that cleansing circle...
Then die to a zergs attention once it looks like i'm one of those super tanks..but in truth I can only fend of one person standing in that limiting circle....(or someone hit's me out of the circle with templar spear, bow back, or 2 dizy swings)
Well at least I can help keep rams up in pvp again....Edited by LuxLunae on July 16, 2019 2:39PM0 -
kromegas✭✭✭Would really like a a variation of BS that gives Magicka Recovery instead of Stam recovery...0
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Massacre_Wurm✭✭✭✭✭Massacre_Wurm wrote: »Of course Bloodspawn is OP (for PvP), go look at how many streamers/youtubers, etc put out builds for PvP where bloodspawn is the choice (HINT: it is more than even pirate skeleton and no it is not just DK), there is a reason for that and it isn't because it is balanced.
Using this logic Hunding rage isnt balanced. Also Mother sorrow , necropotence , briarheart , zaan , siroria , god's devotion , vMA weapon. We should nerf it ASAP.
Also skills like caltrops , endless hail , dawnbreaker , etc. Because every stam build using it.
No that just shows you don't understand the logic because you don't understand the difference between the use of Bloodspawn and most other things.
Take your Necropotence example, sure that is a strong set for a limited set of magicka builds on a limited number of classes, something being strong for a very limited number of builds in itself is not a signal something is OP. Bloodspawn on the other hand is so good it gets picked for a multitude of builds across classes on both magicka and staminia for PvP, why? Because it is too good.
I hate to break it to you, but in games if you have something that has a decent number of options like 40(?) monster sets and a huge number of players are all using one or two of those, then that is a pretty clear indication that those sets are OP relative to the rest.
How many sets in the game ? More than 300 ( monster included )
How many actually used ? Probably less then 10 for each role ( tank/dd/healer ) across the board.
" I dont understand the logic" , righhht.
I hate to break it to you, but in games if you have something that has a decent number of options like 300(?) sets and a huge number of players are all using two or three of those, then that is a pretty clear indication that those sets are OP relative to the rest.
2
WTF