Lord-Otto wrote: »

ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »

Magicka players still trying to build full dmg specs an shield their way to victory. Explain to me what class your playing an race an ill give you a build that will perform better on pts than current. Stop trying to be a one shot lord an you wont get one shot.

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

new changes to VIGOR, and its recent buffs (hot buff) can change pvp balance more than ever.

i am talking about that AOE heal version. with its current potency (on pts 5.1.0), this can make mass stacked groups completely invulnerable to all counters, like negate
this game is mass pvp, sure, but it should not be MASS STACKED pvp

It is PVP skill, so it should be PVP balanced. with recent changes, Magicka healers become weaker, but spin2win-healers may occur without any way to stop their heals


Make this right and fix it before its too late.

I have to agree with you, stam is going to win next patch @ PVP and Magicka defence took huge nerf.

ZOS will face more critism in future for vigor buff

And how should it be, in your opinion? Squishy glascannon mag builds that can't kill tanks anyway, but get killed by a single Dawnbreaker?

Nevermind, if your getting killed by a single dawnbreaker i cant help you. I hear Albion Online is free to play! Give it a shot.

Answer the question.

If you are playing glass canon, you will die regardless of whether you are stamina/magicka whatever. Only class that can survive Glass Canon is NB in gank builds, who survive solely by relying on stealth. Find them and they will die in 1-2 hits.

ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »

Magicka players still trying to build full dmg specs an shield their way to victory. Explain to me what class your playing an race an ill give you a build that will perform better on pts than current. Stop trying to be a one shot lord an you wont get one shot.

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

new changes to VIGOR, and its recent buffs (hot buff) can change pvp balance more than ever.

i am talking about that AOE heal version. with its current potency (on pts 5.1.0), this can make mass stacked groups completely invulnerable to all counters, like negate
this game is mass pvp, sure, but it should not be MASS STACKED pvp

It is PVP skill, so it should be PVP balanced. with recent changes, Magicka healers become weaker, but spin2win-healers may occur without any way to stop their heals


Make this right and fix it before its too late.

I have to agree with you, stam is going to win next patch @ PVP and Magicka defence took huge nerf.

ZOS will face more critism in future for vigor buff

Magicka players build glass cannon builds because it’s the only viable option they have. Magicka damage is lower than stamina’s. On a Magicka character once you start equipping defensive sets you will never kill anyone. Mag sorc is the only Magicka class that can actually get by using defensive sets because of the tooltip damage of their class abilities and access to a very strong execute.

No dude. Just no..ive never said this before i dont think but thats 100% L2P

if you are getting beat by Magicka builds in sets like brass and armor master that’s a L2P issue on your part. You can get by on Magicka equipping a defensive monster set since it only takes up 2 pieces. Any Magicka build using protective or a 5 piece defensive set will never kill me. their spammable damage will be too low to pressure you. If literally every Magicka class is going glass cannon that should tell you something about the effective way to build a Magicka build.

Magicka spammable damage is naturally lower as well as there is only 2 Magicka classes with viable executes where as all stamina builds have access to executioner. you can actually go 2hand/bow and have access to 2 executes. Stamina also has the best ultimate in the game in DboS. Most mag classes don’t have access to a instant cast high damage AOE ultimate with a stun attached.

The Magicka meta is all damage sets and for solo play it’s all damage and either shadow rend or pirate. You get your defense from your shields and class utility skills.

I’ve yet to see a full damage magicka build perform well in pvp. Maybe this explains why so many people think we’re in a stamina meta.

You guys must be talking CP pvp. I wish more people would give context to the kind of pvp they’re talking about. In no-CP no defensive set builds are called free AP.

So many comments i dont know whoch ones were agreeing with me or not. Im basically saying that any effective build thats built for all around pvp an not a niche is going to build equally into defense, healing, and damage. Doable on any class. If you play a certain class, play to its strengths not its weakness. Dont try and play a dk like a sorc and vice versa. Theres so many options with builds but people want meta this or that. Blowing up kids in a global cooldown is fun but then you run into someone who knows what their doing an youll have to learn to play strong or respawn.

ZonasArch wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

DODHitman wrote: »

vigor - any bar and can use whenever.....

RR - mainly back bar, (why, cause resto doesnt do damage) need a certain weapon, wait for skill to go off ( cause pvp lag).....and then wait for tick....

Yeah they are really close lmfao.....

Seriously ladies and gents, they arent even close to the same.....period. Come up with all the silly little excuses that you want, but anyone who has seriously played pvp knows the difference.

Vigor is also the only stam heal in the game. Are you down to share class heals? Then you can nerf vigor.

Well... You have stam heals on wardens. Just. Saying.

And only on warden, how about we extend that to other classes? I bet you would have a problem with that.

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

DODHitman wrote: »

vigor - any bar and can use whenever.....

RR - mainly back bar, (why, cause resto doesnt do damage) need a certain weapon, wait for skill to go off ( cause pvp lag).....and then wait for tick....

Yeah they are really close lmfao.....

Seriously ladies and gents, they arent even close to the same.....period. Come up with all the silly little excuses that you want, but anyone who has seriously played pvp knows the difference.

Vigor is also the only stam heal in the game. Are you down to share class heals? Then you can nerf vigor.

As already explained: ESO (due limited skill slots) isn´t a game of quantity, but quality. Each skill you place that don´t help doing DPS is halfwasted slot. Hence you will want to put just one slot for healing, and you will want that heal be as better as possible.
RIght now, Vigor will be the best heal at the game, cheap, potent and usable in every condition and build. Magicka players dont have anything that gets even closer to Vigor. Im for sure not the only one that would change the entire Resto skill line and class heals for having Vigor. Only magplars really can keep what they have. Futhermore, stamina players should have higher resistances than magicka due armor type, so Vigor would be a more effective heal.

Let´s imagine the oppositeexample. You´re a healer and have just 1slot for DPS skill. What would you want? To have 1 strong, cheap DOT in your arsenal available, or 1 expensive and weak DD and 1 expensive weak DOT? That´s what we have with Vigor and magicka heals.

Still doesn’t answer the question as a stamina build I am forced to use vigor as a heal or I won’t have one It has to be powerful since my options are limited in terms of healing. How do we fix the issue? Make heals scale from max stats but of course you would have a problem with that.

Also heavy armor can be worn by a magicka spec.

Really don't care about Stam heals anywhere. All classes should have one if you wanna know my opinion but it's also fine the way it is. My point was to prove you were wrong. Not debate whether Stam heals are needed or wanted in other classes.

And how did you do that?

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

DODHitman wrote: »

vigor - any bar and can use whenever.....

RR - mainly back bar, (why, cause resto doesnt do damage) need a certain weapon, wait for skill to go off ( cause pvp lag).....and then wait for tick....

Yeah they are really close lmfao.....

Seriously ladies and gents, they arent even close to the same.....period. Come up with all the silly little excuses that you want, but anyone who has seriously played pvp knows the difference.

Vigor is also the only stam heal in the game. Are you down to share class heals? Then you can nerf vigor.

Well... You have stam heals on wardens. Just. Saying.

And only on warden, how about we extend that to other classes? I bet you would have a problem with that.

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

DODHitman wrote: »

vigor - any bar and can use whenever.....

RR - mainly back bar, (why, cause resto doesnt do damage) need a certain weapon, wait for skill to go off ( cause pvp lag).....and then wait for tick....

Yeah they are really close lmfao.....

Seriously ladies and gents, they arent even close to the same.....period. Come up with all the silly little excuses that you want, but anyone who has seriously played pvp knows the difference.

Vigor is also the only stam heal in the game. Are you down to share class heals? Then you can nerf vigor.

As already explained: ESO (due limited skill slots) isn´t a game of quantity, but quality. Each skill you place that don´t help doing DPS is halfwasted slot. Hence you will want to put just one slot for healing, and you will want that heal be as better as possible.
RIght now, Vigor will be the best heal at the game, cheap, potent and usable in every condition and build. Magicka players dont have anything that gets even closer to Vigor. Im for sure not the only one that would change the entire Resto skill line and class heals for having Vigor. Only magplars really can keep what they have. Futhermore, stamina players should have higher resistances than magicka due armor type, so Vigor would be a more effective heal.

Let´s imagine the oppositeexample. You´re a healer and have just 1slot for DPS skill. What would you want? To have 1 strong, cheap DOT in your arsenal available, or 1 expensive and weak DD and 1 expensive weak DOT? That´s what we have with Vigor and magicka heals.

Still doesn’t answer the question as a stamina build I am forced to use vigor as a heal or I won’t have one It has to be powerful since my options are limited in terms of healing. How do we fix the issue? Make heals scale from max stats but of course you would have a problem with that.

Also heavy armor can be worn by a magicka spec.

Sorry, i don´t understand your post (my bad, sure, not English native). Are you complaining that you´re forced to use Vigor and you would want to have more healing options at your disposal, despite having the best selfheal in the game?

Fix it? that´s a good question. I´m going to open a debate about it, as i don´t see it easy. Maybe scaling with other resource was the best, ZOS has started to do so in some general skills as Entrophy, why don´t do it with Vigor? I´d be super happy to change all my DD mag heals for Vigor. Some people would say that it would take variety off the game, and they could be right, but ZOS keeps nerfing class skills and buffing general ones, so maybe it´s a trend...

I don’t think you get it. Vigor has to be a powerful heal because as a stamina build I have NO other options. If you want vigor to not be as powerful give stam builds more healing options.

I suggested making all heals scale off max stats. This as you stated would give both players( mag and stam) flexibility in terms of healing options

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »

Magicka players still trying to build full dmg specs an shield their way to victory. Explain to me what class your playing an race an ill give you a build that will perform better on pts than current. Stop trying to be a one shot lord an you wont get one shot.

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

new changes to VIGOR, and its recent buffs (hot buff) can change pvp balance more than ever.

i am talking about that AOE heal version. with its current potency (on pts 5.1.0), this can make mass stacked groups completely invulnerable to all counters, like negate
this game is mass pvp, sure, but it should not be MASS STACKED pvp

It is PVP skill, so it should be PVP balanced. with recent changes, Magicka healers become weaker, but spin2win-healers may occur without any way to stop their heals


Make this right and fix it before its too late.

I have to agree with you, stam is going to win next patch @ PVP and Magicka defence took huge nerf.

ZOS will face more critism in future for vigor buff

And how should it be, in your opinion? Squishy glascannon mag builds that can't kill tanks anyway, but get killed by a single Dawnbreaker?

A squishy glass cannon that deals high damage from range and needs to use mobility/kite to survive otherwise die.

Currently on live sorcs are glass cannon face tanks that can kill from 40+meters.
The bolt escape buff and shield nerfs on the pts reflects the notion that sorcs should be performing this way.

ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »

For a pure power comparison, not taking into account any additional buff from any other sources but major Brutality/Sorcery and Beserker Enchant/ CP same on both. Only other passives that could affect these particular heals inside their skill lines are the Resto Staff below 30% health modifiers and the Major Mending from a heavy attack which is situational.

You are still comparing a 5/5 set to a 4/5 set...

Xarcus wrote: »

I do not understand why vigor is increasing +85%, really. 5years of pvp as stam, I do not understand why it needs to be improved so much. Any reason ?

The only reason i can think of, ZOS first wants to homogenize all heals, make them all conform to certain formula, and then, if they overperform, they will all be nerfed, equally.

Other than that, no clue. We have NB builds right now hitting cloak at 5% HP and re-emerging at full HP.