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Evasion (base morph of Shuffle) - 5.1.0 - Major Expedition Too Much
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universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭On Stamsorc, this will permanently give Evade users major expedition because of hurricane. What are we supposed to do? Unslot the one damage skill our class has for DPS?
On Warden, hitting shalks will give your enemies major expedition. Good job, you lined up your shot, your reward is that your enemy gets away from any consecutive damage.
On Templar, any hit with jabs will make them fly away at max speed before you even finish the attack.
Caltrops and Ice Wall - as annoying as they are - will actually help medium users rush at you. Snared by 30%? No no speedbuff for 30%! Because I have 5 seconds of movement and 2 secs of expedition while I run over your AoE
From it's design - look at Elude and its morph - it's clear ZoS assumes this will only proc every now and then. They completely forgot that in many cases, it's proc constantly, permanently.
This skill needs a change.
It needs to have either an internal CD of 10-12 seconds so it helps people escape once every 8 or 10 seconds and not constantly or it needs to only proc from ground-based AoE skills that don't move.
Hurricane has become nearly useless. The damage and speed are barley noticeable, and now it buffs enemies wearing medium armor. Time to drop one of the last two skills that provide any class identity and slot Mighty Chudan. Though even that further reduces the usefulness of crit surge...
Crit surge is usless in no CP, only works in CP and PVE. New heal from scatter shot sames the way to go or ring of peresverance and vigor.1 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »On Stamsorc, this will permanently give Evade users major expedition because of hurricane. What are we supposed to do? Unslot the one damage skill our class has for DPS?
On Warden, hitting shalks will give your enemies major expedition. Good job, you lined up your shot, your reward is that your enemy gets away from any consecutive damage.
On Templar, any hit with jabs will make them fly away at max speed before you even finish the attack.
Caltrops and Ice Wall - as annoying as they are - will actually help medium users rush at you. Snared by 30%? No no speedbuff for 30%! Because I have 5 seconds of movement and 2 secs of expedition while I run over your AoE
From it's design - look at Elude and its morph - it's clear ZoS assumes this will only proc every now and then. They completely forgot that in many cases, it's proc constantly, permanently.
This skill needs a change.
It needs to have either an internal CD of 10-12 seconds so it helps people escape once every 8 or 10 seconds and not constantly or it needs to only proc from ground-based AoE skills that don't move.
Hurricane has become nearly useless. The damage and speed are barley noticeable, and now it buffs enemies wearing medium armor. Time to drop one of the last two skills that provide any class identity and slot Mighty Chudan. Though even that further reduces the usefulness of crit surge...
Crit surge is usless in no CP, only works in CP and PVE. New heal from scatter shot sames the way to go or ring of peresverance and vigor.
Not useless, but it is less beneficial unless you are building for crit chance or have tons of dots. Even in BG's with a 33% crit chance you should be getting the heal somewhat reliably if you are running hurricane, rending, and an axe or dot poisons.0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »On Stamsorc, this will permanently give Evade users major expedition because of hurricane. What are we supposed to do? Unslot the one damage skill our class has for DPS?
On Warden, hitting shalks will give your enemies major expedition. Good job, you lined up your shot, your reward is that your enemy gets away from any consecutive damage.
On Templar, any hit with jabs will make them fly away at max speed before you even finish the attack.
Caltrops and Ice Wall - as annoying as they are - will actually help medium users rush at you. Snared by 30%? No no speedbuff for 30%! Because I have 5 seconds of movement and 2 secs of expedition while I run over your AoE
From it's design - look at Elude and its morph - it's clear ZoS assumes this will only proc every now and then. They completely forgot that in many cases, it's proc constantly, permanently.
This skill needs a change.
It needs to have either an internal CD of 10-12 seconds so it helps people escape once every 8 or 10 seconds and not constantly or it needs to only proc from ground-based AoE skills that don't move.
Hurricane has become nearly useless. The damage and speed are barley noticeable, and now it buffs enemies wearing medium armor. Time to drop one of the last two skills that provide any class identity and slot Mighty Chudan. Though even that further reduces the usefulness of crit surge...
Crit surge is usless in no CP, only works in CP and PVE. New heal from scatter shot sames the way to go or ring of peresverance and vigor.
Not useless, but it is less beneficial unless you are building for crit chance or have tons of dots. Even in BG's with a 33% crit chance you should be getting the heal somewhat reliably if you are running hurricane, rending, and an axe or dot poisons.
It's pretty useless to the amount of dmg you take, as it is halved, even noxious breath dot dos more dmg. If you want to heal from crit surge, you have to build specifically for it and that takes a toll on your resources other healing and dmg. As you leave combat or trying to kite away/run away to heal, surge is useless to say the least.0 -
Abhaya✭✭✭✭On Stamsorc, this will permanently give Evade users major expedition because of hurricane. What are we supposed to do? Unslot the one damage skill our class has for DPS?
On Warden, hitting shalks will give your enemies major expedition. Good job, you lined up your shot, your reward is that your enemy gets away from any consecutive damage.
On Templar, any hit with jabs will make them fly away at max speed before you even finish the attack.
Caltrops and Ice Wall - as annoying as they are - will actually help medium users rush at you. Snared by 30%? No no speedbuff for 30%! Because I have 5 seconds of movement and 2 secs of expedition while I run over your AoE
From it's design - look at Elude and its morph - it's clear ZoS assumes this will only proc every now and then. They completely forgot that in many cases, it's proc constantly, permanently.
This skill needs a change.
It needs to have either an internal CD of 10-12 seconds so it helps people escape once every 8 or 10 seconds and not constantly or it needs to only proc from ground-based AoE skills that don't move.
Hurricane has become nearly useless. The damage and speed are barley noticeable, and now it buffs enemies wearing medium armor. Time to drop one of the last two skills that provide any class identity and slot Mighty Chudan. Though even that further reduces the usefulness of crit surge...
According to another thread of someone testing 7th legion on PTS said that the proc can refresh on every tick of hurricane. If this is the case it could definitely still be worth running for almost 100% uptime on the set.Abhaya - PC NA - Ebonheart Pact
Stam Sorc 2-Hand / Bow Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=1691030 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭On Stamsorc, this will permanently give Evade users major expedition because of hurricane. What are we supposed to do? Unslot the one damage skill our class has for DPS?
On Warden, hitting shalks will give your enemies major expedition. Good job, you lined up your shot, your reward is that your enemy gets away from any consecutive damage.
On Templar, any hit with jabs will make them fly away at max speed before you even finish the attack.
Caltrops and Ice Wall - as annoying as they are - will actually help medium users rush at you. Snared by 30%? No no speedbuff for 30%! Because I have 5 seconds of movement and 2 secs of expedition while I run over your AoE
From it's design - look at Elude and its morph - it's clear ZoS assumes this will only proc every now and then. They completely forgot that in many cases, it's proc constantly, permanently.
This skill needs a change.
It needs to have either an internal CD of 10-12 seconds so it helps people escape once every 8 or 10 seconds and not constantly or it needs to only proc from ground-based AoE skills that don't move.
Hurricane has become nearly useless. The damage and speed are barley noticeable, and now it buffs enemies wearing medium armor. Time to drop one of the last two skills that provide any class identity and slot Mighty Chudan. Though even that further reduces the usefulness of crit surge...
According to another thread of someone testing 7th legion on PTS said that the proc can refresh on every tick of hurricane. If this is the case it could definitely still be worth running for almost 100% uptime on the set.
Most likely a bug they will fix before pts goes live1 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭JusticeSouldier wrote: »JusticeSouldier wrote: »
The mobility that you say medium has doesn’t currently exist. The only thing it has is sprint speed which is only useful for running away and has zero impact on actual combat. If the major expedition has to go then it needs to keep the snare immunity and the other morph needs something else. Casting shuffle every 3 seconds in it’s current version isn’t viable.
it's your l2p issue.
in reality medium gives cool mobility.
And on PTS immunity is too long - expedition on the top makes this skill absolutly stupidly overpowered.
The immunity is fine, the major expedition is not. IMO.
its a big question for who it's fine.
if u play only stamina in medium - ofc fine, for u subjective like.
but when u changed build to heavy or will play in light or heavy on another class - u will say "wtf, why whole part of the game mechanics doesn't touch these guys? why it cost so cheap in trade for endless duration? what for snares and roots exist in this game iif u can't use them at all?"
Think perspective.
P.s: I'm stamina fun personally. And mostly in medium even now. And these changes make Shuffle too OP.
In it's current state on live evasion doesn't see play because the snare immunity duration is useless when snares get thrown out like candy on Halloween. The snare immunity duration is what will make medium armor playable again without having to rely on forward momentum.
man, all those immovable pots i've been selling like hot cakes....
THINK OF THE ALCHEMISTS, ZOS!JusticeSouldier wrote: »
then all the more reason to keep this great buff on Shuffle!August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber0 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Caltrops and Ice Wall - as annoying as they are - will actually help medium users rush at you. Snared by 30%? No no speedbuff for 30%! Because I have 5 seconds of movement and 2 secs of exp
oh *** i forgot about this one lol........
Caltrops will make people run faster.... lolAugust Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber0 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭On Stamsorc, this will permanently give Evade users major expedition because of hurricane. What are we supposed to do? Unslot the one damage skill our class has for DPS?
On Warden, hitting shalks will give your enemies major expedition. Good job, you lined up your shot, your reward is that your enemy gets away from any consecutive damage.
On Templar, any hit with jabs will make them fly away at max speed before you even finish the attack.
Caltrops and Ice Wall - as annoying as they are - will actually help medium users rush at you. Snared by 30%? No no speedbuff for 30%! Because I have 5 seconds of movement and 2 secs of expedition while I run over your AoE
From it's design - look at Elude and its morph - it's clear ZoS assumes this will only proc every now and then. They completely forgot that in many cases, it's proc constantly, permanently.
This skill needs a change.
It needs to have either an internal CD of 10-12 seconds so it helps people escape once every 8 or 10 seconds and not constantly or it needs to only proc from ground-based AoE skills that don't move.
Hurricane has become nearly useless. The damage and speed are barley noticeable, and now it buffs enemies wearing medium armor. Time to drop one of the last two skills that provide any class identity and slot Mighty Chudan. Though even that further reduces the usefulness of crit surge...
According to another thread of someone testing 7th legion on PTS said that the proc can refresh on every tick of hurricane. If this is the case it could definitely still be worth running for almost 100% uptime on the set.
I know, but I think this is a bug that they will fix... unfortunately.0 -
Yiko✭✭✭✭✭
That would probably be a wise decision.ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »Yea they should not put major evasion on FM or Rally.
#KeepMajorEvasionFromTheHeavies .com
Wasn't talking about Major Evasion in general - was talking about its new home on Momentum and morphs. I agree that they're not going to change the base mechanic at this point, but they could re-evaluate their decision to make the buff more ubiquitous, especially considering that they've dramatically increased accessibility to builds that do not really need more mitigation and made Major Evasion redundant for those that use Rally/Shuffle.Lol we Templars have been saying Major Evasion needs addressing since it was first changed to AOE damage. And we’ve been vocal. You can see the countless posts that have been made, myself included, in past PTS patches. It’s safe to say at this point in time that mechanic is not going to get touched.
As for major expedition, after further testing on PTS, I can comfortably say that if shuffle were to lose the major expedition heavy will still be the meta. With the addition of major evasion to Forward momentum, multiple new flex abilities for every class, as well as seventh legion emerging as one of the top stamina sets on PTS, I cannot see real reasoning to run medium over heavy without the major expedition on shuffle.
You can run 7th Legion jewelry and weapons. It will function pretty nicely as a 1-bar set. Should be very usable with Medium Armor, particularly on Sorc and NB. Many of the ridiculously stat-dense Heavy Armor sets have been nerfed. We'll have to see how Heavy Armor is performing in open world, keeping in mind that most of these builds also lost Major Defile.
Regarding the potential loss of Major Expedition on Shuffle: we will have to see what other value ZOS would be willing to budget onto the ability to keep it competitive.
My heart goes out to you Hurricaners.
This skill needs a change.
:'( Mentioned in the first post0 -
JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭JusticeSouldier wrote: »JusticeSouldier wrote: »
The mobility that you say medium has doesn’t currently exist. The only thing it has is sprint speed which is only useful for running away and has zero impact on actual combat. If the major expedition has to go then it needs to keep the snare immunity and the other morph needs something else. Casting shuffle every 3 seconds in it’s current version isn’t viable.
it's your l2p issue.
in reality medium gives cool mobility.
And on PTS immunity is too long - expedition on the top makes this skill absolutly stupidly overpowered.
The immunity is fine, the major expedition is not. IMO.
its a big question for who it's fine.
if u play only stamina in medium - ofc fine, for u subjective like.
but when u changed build to heavy or will play in light or heavy on another class - u will say "wtf, why whole part of the game mechanics doesn't touch these guys? why it cost so cheap in trade for endless duration? what for snares and roots exist in this game iif u can't use them at all?"
Think perspective.
P.s: I'm stamina fun personally. And mostly in medium even now. And these changes make Shuffle too OP.
In it's current state on live evasion doesn't see play because the snare immunity duration is useless when snares get thrown out like candy on Halloween. The snare immunity duration is what will make medium armor playable again without having to rely on forward momentum.
man, all those immovable pots i've been selling like hot cakes....
THINK OF THE ALCHEMISTS, ZOS!JusticeSouldier wrote: »
then all the more reason to keep this great buff on Shuffle!
u have a very weird logic mate, very weird.
is this a kind of trolling to write again "immovable pots i've..." in the same comment with answer to my remark that Immovable potions are not related to snares and roots?
and with a happy face writing that than "shuffle should blabla".
wtf?all classes. pc platform, dissapointed.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I understand the concern here. I understand that this is zenimax's way of saying ''We messed up with speed pots and expedition changes before, here is our apology gift'' However this ability might be a little too much.0 -
ProzTh3Almighty✭✭✭I miss 100% major expedition uptime on pots. Just remove swift from the game, buff major expedition uptime on pots, leave medium alone. Either way ima get my speed0
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ProzTh3Almighty✭✭✭That reminds me! Werent all classes still viable when we had 100% major expedition pots? Just bring then back!1
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Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Magicka took too much Shield Nerf, why not give it to Magicka (one light armor shield morph grants).
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JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »That reminds me! Werent all classes still viable when we had 100% major expedition pots? Just bring then back!
it was bad. it was too easy, i'm absolutly glad they nerfed speed potions. speed should work, snares should work, roots, maims, defiles etc, and counters to them - all mechanics should have their niche, it's must for real balance.all classes. pc platform, dissapointed.2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »I miss 100% major expedition uptime on pots. Just remove swift from the game, buff major expedition uptime on pots, leave medium alone. Either way ima get my speed
As much as I miss speed pots, if anything specificly deserves high uptime of major expedition, its definitely medium armor.2 -
evoniee✭✭✭✭medium playstyle is mobility, nothing wrong here, the one need to be changed is forward momentum / rally major evasion0 -
JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »I miss 100% major expedition uptime on pots. Just remove swift from the game, buff major expedition uptime on pots, leave medium alone. Either way ima get my speed
As much as I miss speed pots, if anything specificly deserves high uptime of major expedition, its definitely medium armor.
patch before elsweyr aand after i play at stamina characters 90% in medum.
expedition is any problem to get. In some builds i use quick cloak from duals, in another bow with roll dodge, or race in time with snb or 2h.
And yes, shuffle for snare immunity.
2.5 seconds is enouch if u play not as a random player vs premade group.
I'm pretty sure shuffle with expedition and so long duration of immunity is a mistake.all classes. pc platform, dissapointed.1 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
That would probably be a wise decision.ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »Yea they should not put major evasion on FM or Rally.
#KeepMajorEvasionFromTheHeavies .com
Wasn't talking about Major Evasion in general - was talking about its new home on Momentum and morphs. I agree that they're not going to change the base mechanic at this point, but they could re-evaluate their decision to make the buff more ubiquitous, especially considering that they've dramatically increased accessibility to builds that do not really need more mitigation and made Major Evasion redundant for those that use Rally/Shuffle.Lol we Templars have been saying Major Evasion needs addressing since it was first changed to AOE damage. And we’ve been vocal. You can see the countless posts that have been made, myself included, in past PTS patches. It’s safe to say at this point in time that mechanic is not going to get touched.
As for major expedition, after further testing on PTS, I can comfortably say that if shuffle were to lose the major expedition heavy will still be the meta. With the addition of major evasion to Forward momentum, multiple new flex abilities for every class, as well as seventh legion emerging as one of the top stamina sets on PTS, I cannot see real reasoning to run medium over heavy without the major expedition on shuffle.
You can run 7th Legion jewelry and weapons. It will function pretty nicely as a 1-bar set. Should be very usable with Medium Armor, particularly on Sorc and NB. Many of the ridiculously stat-dense Heavy Armor sets have been nerfed. We'll have to see how Heavy Armor is performing in open world, keeping in mind that most of these builds also lost Major Defile.
Regarding the potential loss of Major Expedition on Shuffle: we will have to see what other value ZOS would be willing to budget onto the ability to keep it competitive.
My heart goes out to you Hurricaners.
This skill needs a change.
:'( Mentioned in the first post
My point wasn’t to say you need to wear heavy to run seventh, but rather that you can still run heavy armor with a good set and pair it with another solid medium armor set (versus say having to run a crafted set like heavy shackle) so running heavy won’t have a downside set wise.
And thinking that builds lost Major Defile...you must not know, lol, I feel bad that people think that’s the case.
Shuffle should be changed to major expedition on cast, or keep it on AOEs but adjust some mechanics so that Hurricane and Jabs and abilities as such don’t proc it. Without major expedition I can guarantee heavy will still be meta, after a significant amount of testing.0 -
Wihuri✭✭✭master_vanargand wrote: »100% uptime? That's a cry.
You can stop using AOE.
Or you can use skill of reduce the Movement Speed.
Why do you keep crying when you can adapt?
Just stop using hurricane bro!3 -
Yiko✭✭✭✭✭
The main problem with Heavy Armor was that the sets provided too much value too easily, right? The value has been cut down in the first week of PTS, but maybe sets like Seventh Legion need to see further nerfs or reworks. That way, there will be less incentive to use Heavy Armor when there's still an underlying intent to be able to kill most opponents.My point wasn’t to say you need to wear heavy to run seventh, but rather that you can still run heavy armor with a good set and pair it with another solid medium armor set (versus say having to run a crafted set like heavy shackle) so running heavy won’t have a downside set wise.
And thinking that builds lost Major Defile...you must not know, lol, I feel bad that people think that’s the case.
Shuffle should be changed to major expedition on cast, or keep it on AOEs but adjust some mechanics so that Hurricane and Jabs and abilities as such don’t proc it. Without major expedition I can guarantee heavy will still be meta, after a significant amount of testing.
I do see what you're saying: Heavy is still too strong/competitive, and Shuffle losing Major Expedition [and gaining nothing else] would further the distance in the power gap. While that is true, Heavy sets can be further tuned down if they're deemed too stat-dense, and/or Shuffle can see value distributed to Medium Armor users in another way than Major Expedition to close the power gap.
I'm curious. What type of environment did your significant testing take place in? Mostly 1v1s/dueling?
Regarding the bolded part in the quote: I know that there are 5 piece sets and status effects (and their various sources) that proc Major Defile; I was referring to the loss of Major Defile on Reverberating Bash, which was seeing widespread use.
What is with the stream of condescending/antagonistic remarks? Also insinuating that I'm a bad player and attacking my grammar earlier on..?
It's not a good look, especially after saying things like:When you look at objectively, without the new iteration of shuffle, magicka clearly has better mobility then medium armor. Period.
How about saying that this iteration of Shuffle:
And now you're saying that Shuffle should be changed?was a good change that will ensure shuffle is slotted from now on. Good work ZOS_Gilliam 👍🏾
Also consider that most of the argument that you were repeating earlier was that there would be no real reason to run this iteration of Shuffle (minus the Major Expedition) with this iteration of Forward Momentum.. But okay, let's completely disregard the value of Rally's burst heal, the 1-3 additional seconds of immunity on Shuffle, and the use of Shuffle outside of a 2H bar, since it's all subjective. I mentioned earlier that Major Evasion on Rally/Forward Momentum was a questionable design choice, and I provided my reasoning.
You go on to state:
Meanwhile, you're in the Get rid of Major Evasion from Momentum thread literally posting:And to say that two crucial abilities need nerfs before PTS is even up is absolutely comical and downright asinine. So please don’t retort with saying that Forward shouldn’t have major evasion, it’ll just make you look like one of those forum magicka users who raises pitchforks anytime a buff comes around.Agree wholeheartedly.
Yeah, you can say that was after testing, but it doesn't help the look of your argument earlier at all, which basically amounts to:
This poorly designed iteration of Shuffle is okay, because without its overperforming mechanic, there would be no reason to use it with this poorly designed iteration of Forward Momentum.
That isn't exactly the strongest argument. I think you have since realized this, because it seems that you now agree with me that both Week 1 iterations of Evasion and Momentum + morphs are not good design. Let's just relax and stay tuned for Week 2 changes
Edited by Yiko on July 15, 2019 9:35AM1 -
ProzTh3Almighty✭✭✭medium playstyle is mobility, nothing wrong here, the one need to be changed is forward momentum / rally major evasion
Yes. Medium anything has been the underdog for a long time an may still be unless your a nightblade but even then theyre having trouble in the AOE mess of PVP.JusticeSouldier wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »I miss 100% major expedition uptime on pots. Just remove swift from the game, buff major expedition uptime on pots, leave medium alone. Either way ima get my speed
As much as I miss speed pots, if anything specificly deserves high uptime of major expedition, its definitely medium armor.
patch before elsweyr aand after i play at stamina characters 90% in medum.
expedition is any problem to get. In some builds i use quick cloak from duals, in another bow with roll dodge, or race in time with snb or 2h.
And yes, shuffle for snare immunity.
2.5 seconds is enouch if u play not as a random player vs premade group.
I'm pretty sure shuffle with expedition and so long duration of immunity is a mistake.
5 secs is perfect because as the mobility armor type we should get slightly more than any other source. Not less than any except the RAT psijic skill that anyone can have if they gots the cheddar, cheese, mulah, monnnneeeyyyy! (and also provides minor force and major expedition on demand)
Edited for CLARITY!Edited by ProzTh3Almighty on July 15, 2019 9:20AM0 -
Soul_Demon✭✭✭✭✭From a PVP perspective, I am very happy in general with this PTS' patch notes. ZOS is pushing the game back in the direction of active gameplay rather than passive gameplay, taking significant strides to widen the gap between the skill floor and skill ceiling for the first time in a years. There are some lingering concerns (pun intended), such as healing and mitigation remaining too impactful, but the concern I want to touch on here is Evasion's Major Expedition.
Changes are as follows:Evasion: Reduced the base cost of this ability to 3213 from 3672. Also added a new function if you are hit with an Area of Effect attack while the ability is active, you gain Major Expedition for 2 seconds.
Elude (morph): Each piece of Medium Armor now increases the duration of the Major Evasion by 2 seconds, up from 1 second. Elude also increases the duration of the Major Expedition, but only by 1 second per piece of Medium Armor.
Shuffle (morph): Increased the snare and immobilization immunity granted per piece of Medium Armor worn to 1 second from 0.5 seconds.
Reducing the cost of the ability and doubling the effectiveness of the snare/root immunity was a massive buff and much needed for the underrepresented Medium Armor users. However, the Major Expedition for 2 seconds (on Shuffle; 7-9 seconds on Elude) on taking Area of Effect damage is superfluous, its implementation will be awkward, and by design it is not in the spirit of this patch's overarching changes emphasizing active gameplay.
Imagine a Templar wanting to use Jabs on someone who has recently used Shuffle. Not only does your AoE damage from Jabs get reduced.. not only do you NOT snare the target.. you actually BUFF your target with Major Expedition for 2 seconds. A Sorc using Hurricane on top of someone using Shuffle? Perma-Major Expedition. Proc sets like Grothdarr or Auroran? Major Expedition. Do YOU want Major Expedition? Run through some Caltrops! Awkward and counterintuitive design. This game is littered with AOE in the current meta, and as a result, uptime on Major Expedition will predictably be ridiculous. The fact that it's triggered passively is not in line with the thoughtful, active gameplay that the rest of this patch's changes are attempting to encourage. It is too powerful a buff to be given out for basically free. That is why it has been made so scarce in the recent past. Medium Armor users should not be rewarded with a powerful mobility (and therefore survivability) buff UNCONSCIOUSLY when they are hit by opponents who are using their kits/builds as designed.
If there is to be any uncontrolled movement speed at all, one solution could be that the movement speed is reduced and given a longer duration, like how the Wood Elf passive was treated (it was changed from 20% move speed to 10% move speed increase with an extended duration). For example, on taking AoE damage, Evasion and morphs could give Minor Expedition (or an unnamed 10% move speed buff) for 6 seconds. This reduces the potency of what would amount to absurd passive mobility while still granting value to Medium Armor users spread out over a longer duration. On top of that, this will allow Medium Armor users who have OTHER (read: active) sources of Major Expedition an opportunity to further specialize in their niche of mobility. This would result in more thoughtful, active gameplay from Medium Armor users and would also be less awkward and frustrating to play against for many opponents of said Medium Armor users.
What are your thoughts?
Couldn't agree more....on that same lines when you see someone 'evade' hits the percentage seems to be way off. By that I mean you should not evade five attacks in a row consecutively as it is now, its supposed to be a chance to evade each single attack, NOT a 100% chance to have the next FIVE evaded. Might want to balance that a bit-
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jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JusticeSouldier wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »I miss 100% major expedition uptime on pots. Just remove swift from the game, buff major expedition uptime on pots, leave medium alone. Either way ima get my speed
As much as I miss speed pots, if anything specificly deserves high uptime of major expedition, its definitely medium armor.
patch before elsweyr aand after i play at stamina characters 90% in medum.
expedition is any problem to get. In some builds i use quick cloak from duals, in another bow with roll dodge, or race in time with snb or 2h.
And yes, shuffle for snare immunity.
2.5 seconds is enouch if u play not as a random player vs premade group.
I'm pretty sure shuffle with expedition and so long duration of immunity is a mistake.
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Delparis✭✭✭✭✭Major expedition with evasion was made to make templar with jabs/puncture useless when facing a night nightblade that uses cloak.
Another brilliant idea from Gillam trying to be better Stamblade in pvp by buffing what he needs and nerfing other classes.
Zenimax still don't understand why it's bad to let their employees play ESO. Abusive power use which will bring ruin to the company fir sure.
Till then enjoy your power, but remember that nothing last forever. You'll be back to the hole you were in.0 -
JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭JusticeSouldier wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »I miss 100% major expedition uptime on pots. Just remove swift from the game, buff major expedition uptime on pots, leave medium alone. Either way ima get my speed
As much as I miss speed pots, if anything specificly deserves high uptime of major expedition, its definitely medium armor.
patch before elsweyr aand after i play at stamina characters 90% in medum.
expedition is any problem to get. In some builds i use quick cloak from duals, in another bow with roll dodge, or race in time with snb or 2h.
And yes, shuffle for snare immunity.
2.5 seconds is enouch if u play not as a random player vs premade group.
I'm pretty sure shuffle with expedition and so long duration of immunity is a mistake.
did u heard about lollers? any thoughts why i ask u this, fellow?
if u have nothing to say, say nothing.all classes. pc platform, dissapointed.0 -
JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭Major expedition with evasion was made to make templar with jabs/puncture useless when facing a night nightblade that uses cloak.
Another brilliant idea from Gillam trying to be better Stamblade in pvp by buffing what he needs and nerfing other classes.
Zenimax still don't understand why it's bad to let their employees play ESO. Abusive power use which will bring ruin to the company fir sure.
Till then enjoy your power, but remember that nothing last forever. You'll be back to the hole you were in.
Very wrong logic.
if Zenimax employees will not play eso, they will do even worse changes than we have now.
I didn't heard any time that someone of employees abused something in eso.
And, u should think about this from devs perspective - can u imagine to be seriosly engaged into the game after u touched the process of its creation from inside? I personally can't.
Artists, musicians etc create arts, music and another entertainment things for others, not for themselves. U should think about that.all classes. pc platform, dissapointed.0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
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The main problem with Heavy Armor was that the sets provided too much value too easily, right? The value has been cut down in the first week of PTS, but maybe sets like Seventh Legion need to see further nerfs or reworks. That way, there will be less incentive to use Heavy Armor when there's still an underlying intent to be able to kill most opponents.My point wasn’t to say you need to wear heavy to run seventh, but rather that you can still run heavy armor with a good set and pair it with another solid medium armor set (versus say having to run a crafted set like heavy shackle) so running heavy won’t have a downside set wise.
And thinking that builds lost Major Defile...you must not know, lol, I feel bad that people think that’s the case.
Shuffle should be changed to major expedition on cast, or keep it on AOEs but adjust some mechanics so that Hurricane and Jabs and abilities as such don’t proc it. Without major expedition I can guarantee heavy will still be meta, after a significant amount of testing.
I do see what you're saying: Heavy is still too strong/competitive, and Shuffle losing Major Expedition [and gaining nothing else] would further the distance in the power gap. While that is true, Heavy sets can be further tuned down if they're deemed too stat-dense, and/or Shuffle can see value distributed to Medium Armor users in another way than Major Expedition to close the power gap.
I'm curious. What type of environment did your significant testing take place in? Mostly 1v1s/dueling?
Regarding the bolded part in the quote: I know that there are 5 piece sets and status effects (and their various sources) that proc Major Defile; I was referring to the loss of Major Defile on Reverberating Bash, which was seeing widespread use.
What is with the stream of condescending/antagonistic remarks? Also insinuating that I'm a bad player and attacking my grammar earlier on..?
It's not a good look, especially after saying things like:When you look at objectively, without the new iteration of shuffle, magicka clearly has better mobility then medium armor. Period.
How about saying that this iteration of Shuffle:
And now you're saying that Shuffle should be changed?was a good change that will ensure shuffle is slotted from now on. Good work ZOS_Gilliam 👍🏾
Also consider that most of the argument that you were repeating earlier was that there would be no real reason to run this iteration of Shuffle (minus the Major Expedition) with this iteration of Forward Momentum.. But okay, let's completely disregard the value of Rally's burst heal, the 1-3 additional seconds of immunity on Shuffle, and the use of Shuffle outside of a 2H bar, since it's all subjective. I mentioned earlier that Major Evasion on Rally/Forward Momentum was a questionable design choice, and I provided my reasoning.
You go on to state:
Meanwhile, you're in the Get rid of Major Evasion from Momentum thread literally posting:And to say that two crucial abilities need nerfs before PTS is even up is absolutely comical and downright asinine. So please don’t retort with saying that Forward shouldn’t have major evasion, it’ll just make you look like one of those forum magicka users who raises pitchforks anytime a buff comes around.Agree wholeheartedly.
Yeah, you can say that was after testing, but it doesn't help the look of your argument earlier at all, which basically amounts to:
This poorly designed iteration of Shuffle is okay, because without its overperforming mechanic, there would be no reason to use it with this poorly designed iteration of Forward Momentum.
That isn't exactly the strongest argument. I think you have since realized this, because it seems that you now agree with me that both Week 1 iterations of Evasion and Momentum + morphs are not good design. Let's just relax and stay tuned for Week 2 changes
It’s simple really, after further testing, opinions change. I never said forward momentum shouldn’t lose major evasion, but rather that you shouldn’t call for nerfs for two abilities in the same post.
I also stated after dueling a Stam sorc on pts my opinion changed on the Major Expedition, that it should be on cast or changes so that things like hurricane don’t perma-proc it.
Reading into things that aren’t there. I can say now though on the class discussion discord just about every stam small scaler is saying they are going back to heavy as there is no point in running shuffle.0 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭No point running shuffle on medium anymore with FM. Waste of a bar slot.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.2 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭alright. end of thread. shuffle got nerfed back.
BACK TO HEAVY ARMORS, BOYS!August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber3