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PLEASE, stop this before its too late! (Vigor)
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Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »Rapid regen is just as strong as new vigor, what's the issue here?
Rapid Regen goes to whoever it decides to target. You have to spam it several times to get to target the caster, it can be very difficult to get your own RR. Unless they have updated the smart targeting. But there was no indication of that in the patch notes. Vigor is guaranteed to apply to the caster 100% of the time.
Only if you play in a zerg. In small scale or solo, rapid regen is going to be amazing. People saying "hur dur you gotta slot a restro staff", yeah as if people weren't already doing that.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭vigor - any bar and can use whenever.....
RR - mainly back bar, (why, cause resto doesnt do damage) need a certain weapon, wait for skill to go off ( cause pvp lag).....and then wait for tick....
Yeah they are really close lmfao.....
Seriously ladies and gents, they arent even close to the same.....period. Come up with all the silly little excuses that you want, but anyone who has seriously played pvp knows the difference.
This argument was made several times but it falls a bit flat when you think about it the other way round: as a Magicka build you can easily use Vigor now for a super cheap and strong self-heal (yes even for Magicka builds its healing is great) without having to slot a specific weapon. So you can basically run Rapid Regeneration + Vigor at the same time for some crazy self-healing within 5 seconds. Stamina can’t do that.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »The strong vigor is single target now and it looks like Rapid Regeneration is basically going to be the magicka mirror equivalent
Except you need a Resto Staff equipped which is the only downside. But you're right, Rapid Regeneration is the Magicka equivalent for this. I mean in the end this is good and bad at the same time - Magicka builds can now run Vigor + RR and have some very strong short HoTs whereas Stamina can't do this.
The difficulty with that is it seems at least Vigor is heavily influenced by stam pool. You can try a pelinals type hybrid build but Im not sure the payoff is worth it.
Vigor really doesn't heal that bad on a Magicka build and with the increased healing amount and the decreased overall cost it could be a very nice additional short timed HoT on top of RR when you don't want to use Shields. With ~ 2k Stamina it's super cheap even for pure Magicka builds imho.
I need to check it on PST, currently on Live, my templar healer slots Vigor, and will cost 3,3k stamina and will heal 4,3k on 5 seconds. Ofc it can morphed and will improve something, but... well, you can see.
As it scales from Stamina and in pvp you need stamina for dodge/break free, it will be totally sucking for mag chars. No one will play it.
Regeneration looks like but ... who plays with Resto staff nowadays? Some pvp builds and that´s it. Many use s&b. And ofc there are others who go destro/destro. So regeneration gets a heavy hindrance, in PvE noone will use it but healers while Vigor will be slotted by 100% of stamina players.0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭
The difficulty with that is it seems at least Vigor is heavily influenced by stam pool. You can try a pelinals type hybrid build but Im not sure the payoff is worth it.
Nah, no Pelinal´s needed. Just Nirn on the weapons, and you´ll be fine.
I have to admit THIS was not the first thing I was thinking about when looking at the patch notes, but it might be true:
Solo magicka classes that Vigor/RR stack will be the true winners of the patch
Should be around 4k self healing per second.
4k on PvE, maybe (i think actually lower, i don´t believe it wil heal for 24k total when in Live heals for 4k total). 2k on PvP. And taking stamina which is crucial for mag chars to keep it as high as possible to avoid stuns/break free, and with tiny stamina regen.
I´d bet money that mag chars won´t play Vigor. 100% of Stamina players will do, i think it´s 35k health over 6 seconds... Try to find something close to that in magicka. Not counting Stamina can roll/break free more times than magicka, and have better resistances due armor type.
Only Stamina players can believe/try to make believe things are balanced.Edited by Saril_Durzam on July 9, 2019 1:19PM4 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭I’m very happy with vigor but tbf to magic builds they should have Rapid Regen exactly like vigor so it always goes on the caster imo.2 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Im confused what people are complaining about.
The self vigor has similar heals per second as the current vigor but lasts twice as long, so basically twice as efficient with resources.
The aoe one is pretty much exactly the same as live one.
So you have a choice, a self one which you have to cast less and will cost half the resources to keep up.
Or one similar to the live one which you can heal others (which is going to be stronger).PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Im confused what people are complaining about.
The self vigor has similar heals per second as the current vigor but lasts twice as long, so basically twice as efficient with resources.
The aoe one is pretty much exactly the same as live one.
So you have a choice, a self one which you have to cast less and will cost half the resources to keep up.
Or one similar to the live one which you can heal others (which is going to be stronger).
Think you have them mixed up.
The self cast one is much strong than the current vigor. 1.85x stronger to be exact. Ticks every second for 5 seconds. The group utility one lasts 10 seconds, ticks every 2 seconds. A 15% nerf over the same time but cost less.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Im confused what people are complaining about.
The self vigor has similar heals per second as the current vigor but lasts twice as long, so basically twice as efficient with resources.
The aoe one is pretty much exactly the same as live one.
So you have a choice, a self one which you have to cast less and will cost half the resources to keep up.
Or one similar to the live one which you can heal others (which is going to be stronger).
Think you have them mixed up.
The self cast one is much strong than the current vigor. 1.85x stronger to be exact. Ticks every second for 5 seconds. The group utility one lasts 10 seconds, ticks every 2 seconds. A 15% nerf over the same time but cost less.
Oooh.
Why did they do that xD.
I can understand making people choose from a stronger self heal but 85%? xDPS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Imryll✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »I really don’t understand the buffs to Vigor. It was already a very very very strong healing ability. And now it’s healing was increased and the cost at the same time drastically reduced?
I think its to compensate for the healing springs only being effected by one at a time. It's making it so we're responsible for some of our own heals? I could be flat wrong, but thats how I'm looking at it. (mostly from a PvP large grp position) It also gives a better heal to those classes without a straight burst heal. AkA Necro's, maybe sorcs and NB's fall into that?
In which case one of the morphs should have been magicka. Magsorcs shouldn't have to choose between a nerfed double-barred pet and a resto staff.2 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »I really don’t understand the buffs to Vigor. It was already a very very very strong healing ability. And now it’s healing was increased and the cost at the same time drastically reduced?
I think its to compensate for the healing springs only being effected by one at a time. It's making it so we're responsible for some of our own heals? I could be flat wrong, but thats how I'm looking at it. (mostly from a PvP large grp position) It also gives a better heal to those classes without a straight burst heal. AkA Necro's, maybe sorcs and NB's fall into that?
In which case one of the morphs should have been magicka. Magsorcs shouldn't have to choose between a nerfed double-barred pet and a resto staff.
Oh, c´mon, we have potions for healing!1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »I really don’t understand the buffs to Vigor. It was already a very very very strong healing ability. And now it’s healing was increased and the cost at the same time drastically reduced?
I think its to compensate for the healing springs only being effected by one at a time. It's making it so we're responsible for some of our own heals? I could be flat wrong, but thats how I'm looking at it. (mostly from a PvP large grp position) It also gives a better heal to those classes without a straight burst heal. AkA Necro's, maybe sorcs and NB's fall into that?
In which case one of the morphs should have been magicka. Magsorcs shouldn't have to choose between a nerfed double-barred pet and a resto staff.
Oh, c´mon, we have potions for healing!
Just slot a resto and it'll be fine.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the new vigor is fine. Would be nice if they made regeneration more reliable.Edited by Crixus8000 on July 9, 2019 5:31PM2 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »Rapid regen is just as strong as new vigor, what's the issue here?
Rapid Regen goes to whoever it decides to target. You have to spam it several times to get to target the caster, it can be very difficult to get your own RR. Unless they have updated the smart targeting. But there was no indication of that in the patch notes. Vigor is guaranteed to apply to the caster 100% of the time.
Only if you play in a zerg. In small scale or solo, rapid regen is going to be amazing. People saying "hur dur you gotta slot a restro staff", yeah as if people weren't already doing that.
Even if you are playing 2v90000, you still may not get your own heal with Regeneration unless you cast it multiple times. It has nothing to do with zerging.3 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »
It should? Magicka has shields for proactive defense now along with RR, stamina doesn’t have any proactive form of defense, thus it should have stronger healing over time to act as such.
Logic is really easy to see, like really easy, for anyone with a basic High School education.
Lol you kinda worded yourself into a corner. You realize stamina has the better ability to block and dodge roll. It’s not just magic characters have shields and stam doesn’t have anything, nice try though.5 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nerf the range of echoing vigor and make it only hit 1 ally, like rapid regen?
PC EU
PvP only3 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Now should magicka players use skill, vigor, that scales of max stamina and weapon damage? Does it make any sense?
Even when in noCp you have to build up for some extra stamina, because (without anything spent to stamina) one roll and one CC break and your out, it isnt possible to use any stamina skills.
On other hand, stamina players can just throw everything to stamina without need of increasing magicka.
Go ahead and use shields on your Stamina character ( which scales on max magicka only). Its same.Edited by Anyron on July 10, 2019 4:34AM0 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
Sorry but since rally hot is gone and vigor is single target a buff was needed imo.
So how about we wait few days and see how good actually is?
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Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »
Sorry but since rally hot is gone and vigor is single target a buff was needed imo.
So how about we wait few days and see how good actually is?
Now its the time to say about this, so the devs have time to adjust it. VIgor has already been tested and you can read the conclussion here. It´s by far the best selfhealing skill in the game, which is what a DD or PvP player needs. I wont complain about it, i just ask for similar heals on all my characters (Specially after another shields nerf).1 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »I really don’t understand the buffs to Vigor. It was already a very very very strong healing ability. And now it’s healing was increased and the cost at the same time drastically reduced?
I think its to compensate for the healing springs only being effected by one at a time. It's making it so we're responsible for some of our own heals? I could be flat wrong, but thats how I'm looking at it. (mostly from a PvP large grp position) It also gives a better heal to those classes without a straight burst heal. AkA Necro's, maybe sorcs and NB's fall into that?
In which case one of the morphs should have been magicka. Magsorcs shouldn't have to choose between a nerfed double-barred pet and a resto staff.
Oh, c´mon, we have potions for healing!
Just slot a resto and it'll be fine.
Sure, that´s exactly what my Trial DD character was needing, slot a Resto staff and halve my already inferior DPS...0 -
ProzTh3Almighty✭✭✭Dont magicka builds have the ability to block and dodge? No? Oh it musta been a stamplar block casting BoL then, my b. An there was this one time I saw this stamsorc casting 10k frags, then hed roll dodge two or three times an streak four or 5 and turn around a throw another 10k frag at some poor zergling. An this other time I saw this StamDk permablocking and using Flame Lash, Cauterize, Burning Embers, Coagulating blood. CRAZY! But the craziest was this one time I saw this Stam Nightblade using forward momentum and Zaan an he would permacloack around without any snares on him an just Concealed Weapon, Soul Harvest, Fear, + Zaan peoples foreheads off. They were really great STAM players i guess who have infinite magicka. Definetly couldnt have been Mag toons with plenty of stamina to competently utilize it in a defensive manner. Oh i almost forgot this one time when I saw this MagPlar permablocking and tryna cast BoL but it only had a 3k tootip so he died.. #sad1
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Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Actually, mag characters should use mag to block, not with their weapons but with the magic itself. It would make a welcomed change.0
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ProzTh3Almighty✭✭✭Its called SHIELDS.....an now that they really fixed the problem with shields which was the sustain from Harness for max mag builds, they should revert the health cap doodoo or make them scale with mag AND spell dmg.0
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BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Ok I’m gonna throw this bit out mag toons have big burst heals.
IE: dk coagulating blood sorc clanfear or twilight Templar BoL just to name a few
What does stam have for self heals vigor a hot basically if you have enough burst you can negate a stam healing but magicka can go from execute to full health at the push of a button. On top of that mag doesn’t use their main resource pool to cc break or block stam will burn thru a stam pool if they have to block cc break and heal all off one pool.
Before any one wants to question me I have 18 toons 3 tanks 3 healers and a mag and stam dps for every class.
Now I end with a suggestion tbf for everyone revert the 6second duration on shields back to 30 seconds and be done with it shields are smaller can be crit and are effected by resistance. If that is to much remove shield duration entirely and have it tied to magicka pool so basically ur magicka drains as your shield holds would make sense considering how wards worked in other elder scrolls games.0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »Its called SHIELDS.....an now that they really fixed the problem with shields which was the sustain from Harness for max mag builds, they should revert the health cap doodoo or make them scale with mag AND spell dmg.
Well, you´re right, but tbh block is miles better than shields. Again, we can balance making stamina or magicka versions of skills/abilities, or create separate BALANCED equals. This is not happening so we have to find solutions.0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »Or you could slot an Ice staff
Ice Staff is a tank weapon. I can´t see a stam DPS being asked to slot s&b to get some skill work.0
