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Do you feel like ESOs engine is limiting the game?
cmetzger93
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No underwater exploration and no cloth physics. It feels like the engine is dated and inhibiting the game from adding new content/mechanics that players want. Do you wish the game had been built using a different engine such as UE?
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Snowstrider✭✭✭✭✭Yes.. horrible engine that cant handle stuff that is available in 10 year old games and the devs are not doing a good job at optimizing the game15 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
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Both of those are by choice and not due to engine limitations.cmetzger93 wrote: »No underwater exploration and no cloth physics. It feels like the engine is dated and inhibiting the game from adding new content/mechanics that players want. Do you wish the game had been built using a different engine such as UE?
The engine itself is quite capable, it's the server implementation that is horrendous.
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not for me it isn't. For those that are having problems I suspect it's more down to other factors than the engine, including the megaserver concept. The age of an engine isn't automatically relevant, there are plenty of MMORPGs still around that run perfectly well on engines that were built 10 or 20 years ago.6 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭Having their own engine allows them to keep most revenue. Unreal takes a top percentage from every cent made by the game that use their engine. Heck unity has a subscription fee. More profit usually means better pay for better employees and game longevity. This is Zo$ right? Dollars matter.Edited by Onefrkncrzypope on July 10, 2019 7:02PM-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....3 -
BigBragg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭What makes you think that the engine is the reason we don't have underwater combat?
Because it doesn't support three dimensional movement. Big reason they don't have flying cliff racers in Vvardenfell. They just adjusted the lore to suit that limitation.
Now they have made some spaghetti code adjustments to give the illusion of flight, in things like dragons. That however is just moving them on two dementional rails that players can't see above the players heads. Still not true 3D movement.
Essentially we are all exploring flatlant.6 -
Blinkin8r✭✭✭✭✭I don't know much about how video games are run, how servers work etc. All is know is I've been having a lot of fun in Destiny 2 which has better graphics than eso, ZERO lag, shorter load times and overall runs worlds better than ESO ever has since I started playing it. Just based on that I can confidently say that it's not a console or internet problem. I've never cleared my cache after a Destiny update. Eso is simply poorly run.II Blinkin II
Xbox 1 NA
"A man without the sauce is lost, but the same man can become lost in the sauce."2 -
scorpius2k1✭✭✭✭✭
✭TL;DR - Absolutely, without a doubt. If I remember right, ZoS has even acknowledged that the engine is a limiting factor and needs an update. Will they actually do it is the question we should be asking.
Top-end hardware cannot even max out settings without big frame rate drops even on graphically light areas, that alone says something. Let's not even talk about this area in trials and other content. Between the engine and server performance limitations the game feels very sluggish. Maybe if started with an API update such as Vulkan and/or DX12 PLUS optimizations such as proper multi-core it could help greatly client-side. Think about how much performance increased to WoW after they did the same thing to their old engine. Wouldn't hurt, that's for sure.🌎 PC/NA
🐧 Linux (Arch)
🧑💻 ESO Addon Dev
⚔️ Stamplar | Magplar | Stamcro | Magsorc | Magcro Healer2 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I believe console is. so perhaps indirectly the engine is then
console is fine. We have underwater segments in game, for as long as i remember. Got cloths physics. Flying. We can handle waves and water physics. Can handle games with many players on screen with no lag. Only problem console has is we need slightly dumbed down graphics and have a smaller number of keys.
Its definitely zos's engine thats holding the game back in anything but graphics1 -
Chadak✭✭✭✭✭The engine isn't nearly so limited or derelict as the people pretending they know how to drive it.1
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MisterBigglesworth✭✭✭✭✭
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Both of those are by choice and not due to engine limitations.cmetzger93 wrote: »No underwater exploration and no cloth physics. It feels like the engine is dated and inhibiting the game from adding new content/mechanics that players want. Do you wish the game had been built using a different engine such as UE?
The engine itself is quite capable, it's the server implementation that is horrendous.
Also, just poor planning in their part.
On a related note, did you ever play in beta prior to them adding collision on NPCs? That was added very late in the game and I think was based on player feedback. It's also a lot more data the servers have to crunch that we could honestly do without.Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.1 -
Cernow✭✭✭✭Absolutely. The engine was a drawback at launch and it's only gotten worse the more they've tried to bolt onto it.
Framerate issues aside, for me the biggest issues are how poor the game engine's geometry, terrain and physics are.
Terrain isn't very explorable, there's way too much that cannot be traversed or climbed and it's very easy to get wedged on terrain and furniture. Often the smallest of obstacles cannot be jumped over - low walls, small rocks and even low kerbs.
The game's jumping physics are poor. There's crazy forward momentum that prevents you from just dropping off of a ledge even when just walking and most content isn't really designed for jumping around. There's been an attempt to put some mild jumping puzzle style content into the game, but all this does is shine a bright light on how bad the jump physics actually are.
Mount physics are weird too, especially at speed and will likely kill you if you try to ride a horse at full speed down even a fairly mild incline, again because of the crazy forward momentum.
Crowd control and collision detection is handled in a very strange way much of the time, with the result being a lot of warping around, stuttering and mobs that seem to often 'backpeddle' out of crowd control faster than they can usually move forwards.
Then there's the infuriating mob behaviour when kiting them - they always HAVE to get the last word in before they'll return back to their start location, no matter how far.
And of course, no underwater, no flight, no vehicles (e.g. carts, wagons, chariots etc).
It's not as if ESO can claim it has physics which are less stylised than other games and therefore more realistic. The physics are just plain wacky much of the time.8 -
Moog✭✭✭Will the engine support interactions such as launching players with catapults? Live players that is. If you aim to low they would hit the walls and splat. I mean the character, not the players themselves that would be murder and wrong.2
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Having their own engine allows them to keep most revenue. Unreal takes a top percentage from every cent made by the game that use their engine. Heck unity has a subscription fee. More profit usually means better pay for better employees and game longevity. This is Zo$ right? Dollars matter.
Not only that, but from past experience with MUDs I know that with licensed engines there's always the risk that the company granting the license will be taken over by a rival developer who can then hold the licensee developer to ransom or withdraw the license altogether.
[snip]
[edited for rude/insulting comment]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 4, 2021 12:33PM7 -
Xerikten✭✭✭✭I believe console is. so perhaps indirectly the engine is then
console is fine. We have underwater segments in game, for as long as i remember. Got cloths physics. Flying. We can handle waves and water physics. Can handle games with many players on screen with no lag. Only problem console has is we need slightly dumbed down graphics and have a smaller number of keys.
Its definitely zos's engine thats holding the game back in anything but graphics
yep having a non upgradable machine surely makes everything just fine .personally I think you are holding the rest of us back.3 -
shimm✭✭✭✭✭I don't know much about how video games are run, how servers work etc. All is know is I've been having a lot of fun in Destiny 2 which has better graphics than eso, ZERO lag, shorter load times and overall runs worlds better than ESO ever has since I started playing it. Just based on that I can confidently say that it's not a console or internet problem. I've never cleared my cache after a Destiny update. Eso is simply poorly run.
I couldn’t argue with anything you say, but it’s a totally different kind of game... that has its own problems. My first was nothing in destiny 2 couldn’t have been in the original destiny. If it was an expansion, we’d still have all the old content to play and no split base (still quite a few people playing original destiny). Second, they changed what everyone loved about the first one and then added it back half a year later... this killed it. No one on my friends list plays it any more. ESO is till very active, all the more reason that they need to fix it. Look what happened to destiny.0 -
BigBragg✭✭✭✭✭
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Just because terrain moves up and down, doesn't mean characters move in three directions from a design perspective. They only need to calculate positioning on an x, y axis with accounting for jumps and fall damage. Those are far from the same things as swimming and flying as far as the engines processing is concerned.0 -
Ogou✭✭✭✭✭What makes you think that the engine is the reason we don't have underwater combat?
Because it doesn't support three dimensional movement. Big reason they don't have flying cliff racers in Vvardenfell. They just adjusted the lore to suit that limitation.
Now they have made some spaghetti code adjustments to give the illusion of flight, in things like dragons. That however is just moving them on two dementional rails that players can't see above the players heads. Still not true 3D movement.
Essentially we are all exploring flatlant.
We definitely have three dimensional movement. The gryphons in Cloudrest will fly around and there are birds in the overland. I'm pretty sure they changed cliff racers because they would have been too annoying for melee characters.Edited by Ogou on July 10, 2019 8:36PM1 -
Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What makes you think that the engine is the reason we don't have underwater combat?
Because it doesn't support three dimensional movement. Big reason they don't have flying cliff racers in Vvardenfell. They just adjusted the lore to suit that limitation.
Now they have made some spaghetti code adjustments to give the illusion of flight, in things like dragons. That however is just moving them on two dementional rails that players can't see above the players heads. Still not true 3D movement.
Essentially we are all exploring flatlant.
Damnit is that why enemies flipping looks so awkward and why players don't get cool moves like shoryukens.0 -
BigBragg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭What makes you think that the engine is the reason we don't have underwater combat?
Because it doesn't support three dimensional movement. Big reason they don't have flying cliff racers in Vvardenfell. They just adjusted the lore to suit that limitation.
Now they have made some spaghetti code adjustments to give the illusion of flight, in things like dragons. That however is just moving them on two dementional rails that players can't see above the players heads. Still not true 3D movement.
Essentially we are all exploring flatlant.
We definitely have three dimensional movement. The gryphons in Cloudrest will fly around and there are birds in the overland. I'm pretty sure they changed cliff racers because they would have been too annoying for melee characters.
Animations aren't the same as movement. There are points where they fake it to look like it in game, often the point's where player cannot damage the enemy. Also can be noted by the largely horizontal movement on a plane, the transition between is just an animation like casting a spell. If cliff racers could have flown properly in combat, they could have made the pathing and hit boxes in melee range. The engines limitations break down in areas like this, that is why you randomly get super jumps on mounts, or enemies bodies that rocket off out of nowhere.1 -
RexyCat✭✭✭✭
Just because terrain moves up and down, doesn't mean characters move in three directions from a design perspective. They only need to calculate positioning on an x, y axis with accounting for jumps and fall damage. Those are far from the same things as swimming and flying as far as the engines processing is concerned.What makes you think that the engine is the reason we don't have underwater combat?
Because it doesn't support three dimensional movement. Big reason they don't have flying cliff racers in Vvardenfell. They just adjusted the lore to suit that limitation.
Now they have made some spaghetti code adjustments to give the illusion of flight, in things like dragons. That however is just moving them on two dementional rails that players can't see above the players heads. Still not true 3D movement.
Essentially we are all exploring flatlant.
We definitely have three dimensional movement. The gryphons in Cloudrest will fly around and there are birds in the overland. I'm pretty sure they changed cliff racers because they would have been too annoying for melee characters.
Not sure, but NPC might have predefined path when they go into air or when they land which isn't the same as a full 3D movement for players characters. When you jump off a cliff you can see that you fall down slowly like game try to calculate a path through different horizontal layers. It might also explain way mounts can take damage when there is just a small difference in elevation that kills mount and player.
In the end the question is how physics work in 3 dimension and not that there isn't objects that can look like they can move in the air.
//RexyCat3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Of course. It's an extremely old engine and was considered junk even in its heyday.
I'm shocked the dev team has been able to do what they have with it though.Edited by MLGProPlayer on July 10, 2019 8:57PM2 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭cmetzger93 wrote: »No underwater exploration and no cloth physics. It feels like the engine is dated and inhibiting the game from adding new content/mechanics that players want. Do you wish the game had been built using a different engine such as UE?
Eh... at full bore ESO is a very good looking game. It's certainly better looking than other mmo's.
Cloth physics and underwater exploration aren't big things.
Really... the only thing that ought matter in a game of the mmo flavor is how time consuming making changes or making content is. To that, I doubt any of us have an answer.0 -
nafensoriel✭✭✭✭✭cmetzger93 wrote: »No underwater exploration and no cloth physics. It feels like the engine is dated and inhibiting the game from adding new content/mechanics that players want. Do you wish the game had been built using a different engine such as UE?
First, UE would be a terrible MMO engine.
Second, engines don't work that way.
Third, all the things you think the game needs could be added to the game.
Fourth, engines are constantly improved. They never age like you think they do.
Fifth... Engines don't work that way.
Just because some idiot on youtube thinks UE is the best thing ever doesn't mean it is. It also is nowhere near the best engine for all games. Also as I said engines don't work that way. Engines are a framework. You can add whatever you want to that framework the only difference between the different engines is how much work is required to add certain things. This is because engines, in general, have a focus. If you work within that focus you'll have an easy time and plenty of tools. If you go outside of that focus you'll have to build everything or buy it.
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xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭of course
literally every game engine determines the limits of what the game can do
(though that doesn't mean just b/c you see a problem it's b/c of the engine)-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC0
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