Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Thank You for Allowing us to Buy our Max Undaunted/Psijic/etc on Alt Characters
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scorpius2k1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other MMO's allow certain achievements to be account bound, for free. It's laughable that people praise a monetization scheme as a good thing. And the more I look at the examples, ESO has been p2w for quite a while already
Exactly. Why should it be any different than just letting players who have gained these skill lines already have them on alts without having to throw even more money at this game? There are many other ways to monetize without altering the actual gameplay and takes away the entire purpose. Sad most cannot see the direction ESO is taking more and more and will eventually become a very stale and shallow game.🌎 PC/NA
🐧 Linux (Arch)
🧑💻 ESO Addon Dev
⚔️ Stamplar | Magplar | Stamcro | Magsorc | Magcro Healer6 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭P2W crowd has arrived
Paying to unlock a skill line which has some strong abilities and going against people who haven't had a chance to level that skill line due to how tedious and time consuming ZOS has made it to level is literally pay to win. I could go into the below 50 campaign on a new battle levelled alt and have a significant advantage over everyone else who hasn't spent money on this. I find it baffling that people still don't understand what pay to win is in 2019.17 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pay for convenience
Who in their right mind wants to ever grind lore books more than once4 -
RexyCat✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Why are people mad about this. It doesn’t give your opponent an advantage over you and if you want to take the time to grind lore books on all your accounts you are still free to do so. For people who don’t want to there will be a option for you as well. If you don’t like it don’t buy it plain and simple.
People are upset because Psijic skill line was designed to be really repetitive, if had to do it on more then one character. The problem here isn't that you can buy a skill line, but that it show signs that future development in this game will make game world and quest focused on creating a feeling that you would want to buy those skill lines instead of actually doing them. It als creates a dived between those that can afford to pay real money and that way save time for game play instead (any type of game play) vs those that have to continue to slowly get those skill lines the original way through doing content and gradually learn game mechanics (includes PvP as well as PvE).
New player that only need one character to "unlock" those skills and can get those rewards related to skill lines that other player have used a long time on to acquire will not be the same type of player as their experience and focus during playing this game will now be very different and cause a change also in what kind of MMO community that will be left. MMO is social in its very core compared to Single player games which also will create problems with how people interact as those that have bought a skill line virtually bypass that experience that after all have been shared among those that have done the same skill lines or quests to get where they are today in playing this game.
//RexyCatEdited by RexyCat on July 7, 2019 4:47PM6 -
Numerikuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oh, classy move. So now ESO has sunken to Asian MMO levels in terms of monetization... Can't say I'm surprised, but it's still a nasty look for the TES series.
No wonder the Loremaster abandoned ship.12 -
Coggo✭✭✭I've often dreamed of paying - say a million- AP per Undaunted level to mitigate the grind of completing mind numbing PVE content on my PVP toons.
To see this desire now monetized by the Crown Store strikes me as simply crass.0 -
Numerikuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Master_Kas wrote: »Amazing news indeed!
For Zenimax's pockets maybe.
Whatever happened to striving for good game design? For keeping the player experience in mind? After Summerset it's clear they intentionally made it as awfully grindy as possible to nudge people like the OP in the direction of paying to bypass their crappy design. They could have done it another way. Could have made it more enjoyable. Could have listening to their community feedback. Done some good. Instead they chose the complete opposite path, deciding to monetize the hell out of everything.
I've seen this red flag so many times in other MMOs. It's the dying sign. Expect more rampant P2W monetization aspects in the future. It's all down hill from here.9 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭P2W crowd has arrived
Paying to unlock a skill line which has some strong abilities and going against people who haven't had a chance to level that skill line due to how tedious and time consuming ZOS has made it to level is literally pay to win. I could go into the below 50 campaign on a new battle levelled alt and have a significant advantage over everyone else who hasn't spent money on this. I find it baffling that people still don't understand what pay to win is in 2019.
This is completely inaccurate.
What is pay to win?
Pay to win is when you buy power with real money in a game that is multi-player game and you cannot access it any other way other than with real money.
Example: P2W would be the current Call of Duty Micro-transactions where they are selling weapons and there is no other way to obtain those weapons other than with real money.
What is the current model for ESO?
You can buy specific skill lines that are not restricted to the crown store, meaning you can still earn them without paying. If you are worried about PvP then simply do not enter on a lower level character until you've unlocked them.
Alternatively you can stop being worried, go in there and prove you're not so inferior that you literally need a skill line that is irrelevant skill wise just to beat a single opponent. Would you benefit from the bonus utility and resource management? Yes. Will you suffer in a fight because X has shooting star/Ice Comet because you do not? No. Everyone in low level CP is at a disadvantage regardless because nobody there is at the same level of progression or at least 99% of them are not. Meaning some have ults you wont, you will have abilities they dont. Etc. Using low level PvP is a poor argument.
Pay to win is when you BUY POWER EXCLUSIVELY FOR MONEY. I dont like the fact that they're selling skill lines, its dodgy and not the direction I want but the concept of it actually being pay to win thats being pushed by people is painfully ignorant of what P2W actually means.
I wonder how many people have gone into PvP before this and literally not cared that they didn't have X skill line but are now outraged because it can be bought even though it doesn't actually change anything in terms of skill and does not even matter as they will go into pvp any way without those skill lines just to mess about or kill time.Edited by xeNNNNN on July 8, 2019 3:57AMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.4 -
damdamjel✭✭✭next patch is to buy an "essence of duplication" to duplicate another set from another toon. oh boi
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lokulin✭✭✭✭✭If this is what they meant when they said they wouldn't bring in class change or account wide achievements because they "had something in the works" then I'm sorely disappointed. Buying achievements piecemeal for alts is the worst possible outcome. I could see this coming tho. It is almost exactly the same system Neverwinter uses when it comes to buying out boons from campaigns. At this stage they may as well just make everything purchasable if you have done it once before on any character. Suffice to say I won't be spending any more money on this game.I've hidden your signature.4 -
cHIIMEERa✭✭✭To everyone complaining about this:
You need to value your time more.Edited by cHIIMEERa on July 8, 2019 9:04AM“Good judgement is the result of experience and experience the result of bad judgement.” ― Mark Twain3 -
redlink1979✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ESO is now P2W. Lol
Pay for convenience, not pay to win... You need to have the achievement done in at least one char.Edited by redlink1979 on July 8, 2019 9:30AM"Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"- Sons of the Night Mother | VforVendetta | Grownups Gaming EU | English Elders [PS][EU] 2500 CP
- Daggerfall's Mightiest | Eternal Champions | Legacy | Tamriel Melting Pot [PS][NA] 2300 CP
- SweetTrolls | Spring Rose | Daggerfall Royal Legion | Tinnitus Delux [PC][EU] 2525 CP
- Bacon Rats | Silverlight Brotherhood | Canis Root Tea Party | Vincula Doloris [PC][NA] 2300 CP
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wolf486✭✭✭✭redlink1979 wrote: »redlink1979 wrote: »
As people on the BDO forum say. Pay to Win, Pay for Convenience or simply a paywall, they are all the same with scummy business/monetization practices (oh and with BDO you can at least buy things with in game currency, ESO it's crown store or nothing).
Either grind it out on all characters, or do what other MMO's do and make certain achievements/unlocks account wide....for free.PC/NAMoved onto BDO and GW2 Skyrim, ATS/ETS2, ACNH and the overall goodness of single player games
RIP to the following:
(DC) Tharbûrz gro-Glumgrog - Orsimer -Stamden (lvl 50)
(AD) Vukz - Bosmer - Stamblade (lvl 50)7 -
Pops_ND_Irish✭✭✭✭✭"Skill Lines for Alternate Characters
Fully completing a skill line on one character now unlocks the ability to purchase that achievement and skill line on other characters. Once unlocked on your current character, the chosen skill line immediately advances to its maximum rank. All abilities contained within the purchased skill line arrive unranked, allowing you to advance and morph the skill as you see fit.
Please note you must log into each character on your account to register your achievements.
Once you have logged into each character, other characters will be able to purchase eligible Skill Line upgrades.
This new Crown Store offering is located under “Upgrades -> Skill Lines” in the Crown Store.
Currently, the following skill lines are planned to be available with Update 23:
Alliance War (Assault and Support)
Dark Brotherhood
Thieves Guild
Fighters Guild
Legerdemain
Mages Guild
Undaunted
Note: The Psijic Order, Soul Magic, Vampire and Werewolf skill lines will become available in a future update."
People will cry P2W, but this requires you to do the questlines on at minimum of one character. People who want to grind are free to still do so, this is simply a time saver for those who would like to get it on other characters.
Great news !!! It's not P2W, you are correct !
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Fenrook✭If you don't like it, don't buy it, let your wallets do the talking. A game that has been out as long as ESO, they tend to try to find additional monetisation options in order to keep them profitable, it's just the ugly face of the beast so to speak.
You pay your money, you make your choice. I haven't spent a single crown on sky shards, even though it would save me considerable time on my alts, because I dislike the idea of them. Same applies here. Objecting on this forum will have little effect, not buying them will have more.
Me, I'd like to see these all become free for ESO+ subscribers.
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Wise_Will✭✭✭✭✭i'm glad these are coming to the store, i hated getting to max level in all of them on one toon never mind 9XBOX EU/PC EU0 -
alkoriak✭✭✭What happens to the skill points associated with some of those skill lines? If the player has to do the quests anyway to have them it becomes much less inciting.0
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peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭First let me say I understand why some folks might want this, and I respect that. My time is valuable too.
Second I will say that I doubt back in 2014 that ZOS deliberately designed Fighter's Guild, Undaunted, and Mage's Guild with this in mind. The game has evolved, as all MMO's do, to the point where alts have significantly more content to grind through. This is just the natural order of things. It also has evolved to a more "account bound" focused mindset, with many of those features being player requested and many of those changes not requiring the Crown Store.
However I still think that in the long run this is not good for the gaming community. The skill gap between new and longtime players is large, and often the two only meet in the middle when established players are leveling alts. If those more experienced folks don't have to run their dungeons for Undaunted, don't need tor run around and discover things in the world, etc., the game world is a less lively place.
Also I dislike the inconsistency of implementation. The game has been moving towards an account-wide focus for a while, so having to buy this through the Crown Store, if that's where the game has evolved to, is unfortunate. I think ZOS/the Crown Store is doing quite well, and if we're at the point where the community feels leveling an alt is too cumbersome and ZOS agrees, it should be built into the base game with via a quest.
This isn't pay-to-win, exactly, but it's definitely pay-to-bypass-content, which is most certainly different than pay-for-cosmetics.1 -
Shievarei✭✭✭I'm amazed about how many PC players whine about P2W when they already use P2W add-ons to skip the grind. Anything that gives you an advantage over people that don't have the technical proficiency or computer capable of running add-ons gives you a pay to win advantage. On console I've got a bunch of points into highlighting nodes, but P2W PCers get to use those points elsewhere, etc.
All add-ons should be banned (except purely cosmetic ones) to keep the game fair. And once we've done that, we can discuss skill lines in Crown store.
Do you have examples of "P2W add-ons"? What add-ons you are paying for as an example.3 -
BomblePants✭✭✭✭✭
✭You know I don’t mind grinding out any of the other skill lines but mages guild on console is tedious..... and honestly, I only have it on two characters because I couldn’t face doing it again.
Having said that... I pretty much only play my main anyways, so I probably wouldn’t use this facility. But... I can certainly understand why some will.
Eso is changing.... for good or bad we all have to accept that....
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Maotti✭✭✭✭✭
✭Honestly, i'm not sad the Legerdemain will be buyable on alts, that *** is horrible to level up.PC EU1 -
Julibomb✭✭ZoS has to make money somehow to be able to keep just the upkeep of the servers, staff and profit (no body makes games like this for the love of it), this can not be a cheap business.
I am happy with the changes to the skill line purchasing. For people who do not want to pay, you can carry on as if nothing has changed, for those that just play a game to play the bits they want, if it makes them happy then it is not a problem. So you can choose to grind what you want, and pay for what you want. I personally prefer to pay as I do not have the time to spend hours grinding, I play maybe 2 or 3 nights a week (3-4 hours if i am lucky) so do not want to spend my 'game time' grinding but would rather log on, and do the things I want to in a gamePC EU - EP - CP Campaign
- Raid leader of Retaliatíon -0 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »1) ZOS implement intentionally grindy progress mechanics.
2) Players complain about grind.
3) ZOS "saves the day" by adding a bypass for the grind to the Crown Store.
4) Go to 1.
It's been this way since the release of the Glass Motif (motif chapters, not books, based on double RNG). The community failed to present a significant or organised front against the change. ZOS's experiment proved a financial success. Queue more of the above.
Nothing will be updated with regards to these progression systems now. To do so would cost ZOS money in development time and assets, and in Crown Store sales. See horse riding for reference.
So not only are ZOS intentionally implementing player-unfriendly systems to drive eventual Crown Store sales... people are actually thanking them for it.
Asian MMO practices otw...
Asian MMO practices makes far more money with far less overhead and development cost for content. Because they don't have to sell content. They just have to sell players cash brought victories and wins. Pretty soon the average MMO will cost the player $5000 USDs or more to be able to play at a competitive level. Just like all of the Korean P2W Grinders that don't even have 5% of the content, that most Western MMOs have in their base games. Yet makes just as much or more than some Western MMOs make.
I'm just glad I got to experience MMO gaming in their golden years 2007 to 2014. Before this Dark Age of MMOs took place. The only question we should be asking our selves. Is if or not MMOs will see another Golden Age or are MMOs on the verge of extinction, to roll over for the mobile platform?3
