Zos has taken steps to even out strength and utility on abilities except for SnB

psychotic13 · May 2019

SilverPaws wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

it has

no bleed
no dot
no aoe
no execute
and no high damage spamable (pierce armor can be used as a spamable, but not on the level of uppercut, snipe, etc)
and receives half benefit from enchants

the WHOLE POINT of the line is utility, you give up every kind of relevant damage in the game FOR that utility, that's the point.

PS: listing "snare" as a utility is dumb, almost every darn skill in this game applies a "snare" its something we are all quite annoyed about.

How can you compare piece armor to snipe or dizzy? That alone just invalidates everything youve said as snipe and dizzy have cast times and are not comparable.

FYI, piece armor bash cancel does more damage than dizzy so theres that.

It is overperforming.

Telling that pierce armor with bash does more damage than burst build with dizzy You have no idea what you talk about

Duel me, 100k stakes.

Put your money where your mouth is.

SilverPaws · May 2019

psychotic13 wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

it has

no bleed
no dot
no aoe
no execute
and no high damage spamable (pierce armor can be used as a spamable, but not on the level of uppercut, snipe, etc)
and receives half benefit from enchants

the WHOLE POINT of the line is utility, you give up every kind of relevant damage in the game FOR that utility, that's the point.

PS: listing "snare" as a utility is dumb, almost every darn skill in this game applies a "snare" its something we are all quite annoyed about.

How can you compare piece armor to snipe or dizzy? That alone just invalidates everything youve said as snipe and dizzy have cast times and are not comparable.

FYI, piece armor bash cancel does more damage than dizzy so theres that.

It is overperforming.

Telling that pierce armor with bash does more damage than burst build with dizzy You have no idea what you talk about

Duel me, 100k stakes.

Put your money where your mouth is.

@LadyYushi Pc EU, write me and we can duel anytime

Kidgangster101 · May 2019

psychotic13 wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

it has

no bleed
no dot
no aoe
no execute
and no high damage spamable (pierce armor can be used as a spamable, but not on the level of uppercut, snipe, etc)
and receives half benefit from enchants

the WHOLE POINT of the line is utility, you give up every kind of relevant damage in the game FOR that utility, that's the point.

PS: listing "snare" as a utility is dumb, almost every darn skill in this game applies a "snare" its something we are all quite annoyed about.

How can you compare piece armor to snipe or dizzy? That alone just invalidates everything youve said as snipe and dizzy have cast times and are not comparable.

FYI, piece armor bash cancel does more damage than dizzy so theres that.

It is overperforming.

Lol dizzy does a cc throwing you in the air and good players will time other moves as you are breaking out getting loads of free damage (possibly killing you before you get up)

And what does Pierce armor exactly offer besides the debuffs? You can't set up massive damage pushes the same way. Most classes will use sb to sustain incoming damage (because people can get their weapon damage to 6k plus, but damage is underperforming all the time people say 😉) and they use dw or 2h as their dps bar while having vigor scale with a better heal because you have 6k+ weapon damage so that means vigor heals for what 20-30k every 5 seconds? Lol logic right there.....

Then you guys want to take sb to make it only do tank things, but what if the tank needs to run solo content to get skill points and skyshards? How does a tank kill stuff in pve with sb and destro staff since that is what is required for tanking?

Carve is no where as good as other aoe moves because it has a cone attack much like noxious from dk. Those cone attacks are very klunky and miss and have weird angles and then you add lag into the mix and there is the reason it isn't run like dw spin to win.

Savos_Saren · May 2019

Xvorg wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

100% Agree OP. Definitely need to change the SnB passive that gives 5% weapon damage to 2.5% weapon and 2.5% spell damage. It's a nerf... and a buff for some of us.

Why on earth should sword&board do mag dmg??? Dosent make any sense at all

mDK and magplar have to run S/B since both are classes with a melee spammable. Besides, 2.5 % spell and wpn dmg do not harm tanks

Exactly. People are complaining that SnB is too strong (for stamina-based players)- well, distribute some of that passive weapon damage (to tone it down on the stamina side) to the magicka-based players that rely on melee attacks.

Jeezye · May 2019

Liofa wrote: »

I think problem is how ZOS treats SnB as a damage weapon. ZOS just needs to make it an actual tanking weapon instead. Just like how Resto Staff is only for healing and no damage at all. SnB should be only for tanking and no damage at all. I would happily take better tanking stats and lose all damage capabilities. Utility is whole another thing though as it's the core of PvE tanking. Major Breach, Major Fracture, Minor Maim, Minor Heroism, block cost reduction and block mitigation should stay. Absurd damage and snare of Heroic Slash, 10% Weapon Damage passive, 100% bash damage increase all need to be reworked into actual tanking bonuses. When you look at someone in PvP being on their Resto bar, you say "ok he's going defensive and gonna heal" but when you look at someone who is on SnB bar, you say "ok he's gonna rek my face". You just know there is a problem when SnB is being used for damage and 2H for buffs and heal.

pretty much to the point

ochsinator · May 2019

I think other weapons skills should be buffed. The answer is not to nerf SnB buff other weapon skills.

Aedaryl · May 2019

SilverPaws wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

it has

no bleed
no dot
no aoe
no execute
and no high damage spamable (pierce armor can be used as a spamable, but not on the level of uppercut, snipe, etc)
and receives half benefit from enchants

the WHOLE POINT of the line is utility, you give up every kind of relevant damage in the game FOR that utility, that's the point.

PS: listing "snare" as a utility is dumb, almost every darn skill in this game applies a "snare" its something we are all quite annoyed about.

How can you compare piece armor to snipe or dizzy? That alone just invalidates everything youve said as snipe and dizzy have cast times and are not comparable.

FYI, piece armor bash cancel does more damage than dizzy so theres that.

It is overperforming.

Telling that pierce armor with bash does more damage than burst build with dizzy You have no idea what you talk about

Did you even try it?

Bash + pierce armor deal more damage than dizzying swing.

Bash with S&B deal more damage than a light attack.

Transairion · May 2019

Well given Sword and Board is logically for tanking and all the skills/passives are tank-based (except maybe Defile since almost no NPC's self-heal in a way that can't be stopped/avoided), then damage being taken shouldn't be a problem right?

To prevent rampant use in PvP, why not just have S+B apply Major Maim (unremovable) to the user while in use? Part of Battle Spirit even, no PvE effect.

Iron_Blurr · June 2019

The only debuff i would be ok with sword and shield losing is defile. All other abilities are very important to pve tanking. If you want to get rid of the stun or defile attached to sword and shield i guess thats fine. But don't touch the rest of the skills.

Ragnarock41 · June 2019

Minno wrote: »

Only thing op is that block Mitigation is potentially additive with each other. Otherwise the weapon line is fine. That and heroic needs it's snare dropped.

oh look, a nerf suggestion that makes sense? Is this a glitch in the matrix?

GeorgeBlack · June 2019

Currently the only stamina class that doesnt heavily rely on SnB is stamplar.

Not sure I care anymore tho since Eso is unplayable in aus atm.

validifyedneb18_ESO · June 2019

Its becoming more and more relevant in BGs where stamina DPS can offbar s/b and with a single button become effectively tanks.

People have always done this but I played some more BGs recently and I dont think ive ever seen so many people use it, across about 6 BGs.

Mannix1958 · June 2019

ecru wrote: »

If I were going to "fix" snb, I'd start with completely removing the damage increase on bash. I think this gets overlooked by a lot of people but the bash is what allows snb to apply more pressure than it probably should. I don't really think bash was intended to be 20%+ of someone's damage.

Fast Forward to the current Necro Bash situation and I say this guy & others of like mind called it.

SirMewser · July 2019

Aedaryl wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

it has

no bleed
no dot
no aoe
no execute
and no high damage spamable (pierce armor can be used as a spamable, but not on the level of uppercut, snipe, etc)
and receives half benefit from enchants

the WHOLE POINT of the line is utility, you give up every kind of relevant damage in the game FOR that utility, that's the point.

PS: listing "snare" as a utility is dumb, almost every darn skill in this game applies a "snare" its something we are all quite annoyed about.

Extremely biased answer here.

1. "no bleed" The role of bleed is to put pressure. Defile put huge pressure. You also forgot that you can bar swap to an other weapon
2. "no dot" Stam build have either class dot or class burst. Again, you also forget that you can dot from other weapon skill line with a bar swap.
3. "no AoE" Granted, even if it's not the purpose of the weapon
4. "no execute" Every single decent stam build run 2h for rally/FM, the stamina execute can be on 2H.

5. "no high damage spamable" this is the worst. It has been proove several time that S&B spammable deal more damage than uppercut and especially this patch, using LA/ransack/bash deal more damage and is cheaper than using cast time skills like uppercut or snipe.

S&B is op for some reasons :

-You can have a high damage spammable (500 less damage than surpise attack) + having 60% snare + minor heroism + minor main.

-You can also choose ransack for better damage at cheaper cost (bash+ransack+major fracture is better damage than all other spammable for a cheap cost), applying major fractue and giving minor resolve.

-You can combine it with a stun that deal damage and apply MAJOR DEFILE, which is the most powerfull debuff in the game.

-You can slot one of the best defensive ultimate if your class doesn't have one : spell wall.

- By having Huge damage and utility, you also have passively the best defensive weapon in the game, giving better and cheaper block, additional resist and armor trait.

S&B is the best damage weapon for single target in PvP and also the best defensive weapon, both make it the best 1vX and 1v1 weapon in the game.

You can back bar 2h for rally/FM and add execute if needed. You can also use carve next patch for ur lovely bleed.

The fact that S&B is a better single target offensive weapon than every other one while also being the best defensive weapon make it OP. That's simple.

Can't you compensate anything with a bar swap?

Talking about other weapons or sources of bleeds/executes doesn't support the notion that SnB is OP or what ever you're trying to state.

I agree with you in the part of SnB itself having a spammable and deals high damage. Taking that away would be one thing, but this is already unlike traditional TES games.

We need new weapon lines, it's rediculous that staves are the only way for magic builds to do viable damage. There is no 1H line. I don't get why they won't bring back spears and polearms, in the real world they were the most effective melee weapon in medieval warfare.

This game wants to narrow down playstyles into using fewer and fewer options each year, but the number of weapon types has never changed to compensate this, leaving little flavor for roles.

universal_wrath · July 2019

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

SnB provides extreme endurance with it's benefits in regards to blocking.

However SnB is the strongest stamina weapon because it also has tooltips with fairly high direct dmg and extra bash dmg. I contrast DW 2h and Bow do not have spammables that can be animation cancelled as smooth as Low Slash, Puncture, Reverb Bash. This results in SnB being a more agressive weapon than the other 3.

And if you are not convinced that SnB is the best choice for all stamina classes let us see how many tools SnB has in addition to it's defensive superiority and offensive superiority:
Gap closer
CC
Defile
Breach
Fracture
Heroism
Maim
Resolve
Snare

All for low stamina costing abilities and an ulti that should be situational but due to it's low cost (in combination with heroism) provides great mitigation with no drawbacks.

SnB enables all stamina Classes to perform better against any other stamina weapon combinations and it needs to be looked at after 5 years.
This is coming from a stamDK.

If they change any of this, they will only hurt stams sorcs the most in PVP, as it's the only class the rely completly on weapons skill. Also Tanks in PVE will be screwed as well.

ZarkingFrued · July 2019

Just weighing in. Don't nerf SnB again. Its hadd enough to tank for people who have low dps heals and survival

GeorgeBlack · July 2019

>. <
"Relies on SnB..."

"Tanks PvE..."

Every stamina PvP build runs SnB. What are you talking about?

PvE tanks will still tank. Who else will the community pick for the role?