SilverPaws wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »it has
no bleed
no dot
no aoe
no execute
and no high damage spamable (pierce armor can be used as a spamable, but not on the level of uppercut, snipe, etc)
and receives half benefit from enchants
the WHOLE POINT of the line is utility, you give up every kind of relevant damage in the game FOR that utility, that's the point.
PS: listing "snare" as a utility is dumb, almost every darn skill in this game applies a "snare" its something we are all quite annoyed about.
How can you compare piece armor to snipe or dizzy? That alone just invalidates everything youve said as snipe and dizzy have cast times and are not comparable.
FYI, piece armor bash cancel does more damage than dizzy so theres that.
It is overperforming.
Telling that pierce armor with bash does more damage than burst build with dizzy You have no idea what you talk about
psychotic13 wrote: »SilverPaws wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »it has
no bleed
no dot
no aoe
no execute
and no high damage spamable (pierce armor can be used as a spamable, but not on the level of uppercut, snipe, etc)
and receives half benefit from enchants
the WHOLE POINT of the line is utility, you give up every kind of relevant damage in the game FOR that utility, that's the point.
PS: listing "snare" as a utility is dumb, almost every darn skill in this game applies a "snare" its something we are all quite annoyed about.
How can you compare piece armor to snipe or dizzy? That alone just invalidates everything youve said as snipe and dizzy have cast times and are not comparable.
FYI, piece armor bash cancel does more damage than dizzy so theres that.
It is overperforming.
Telling that pierce armor with bash does more damage than burst build with dizzy You have no idea what you talk about
Duel me, 100k stakes.
Put your money where your mouth is.
psychotic13 wrote: »it has
no bleed
no dot
no aoe
no execute
and no high damage spamable (pierce armor can be used as a spamable, but not on the level of uppercut, snipe, etc)
and receives half benefit from enchants
the WHOLE POINT of the line is utility, you give up every kind of relevant damage in the game FOR that utility, that's the point.
PS: listing "snare" as a utility is dumb, almost every darn skill in this game applies a "snare" its something we are all quite annoyed about.
How can you compare piece armor to snipe or dizzy? That alone just invalidates everything youve said as snipe and dizzy have cast times and are not comparable.
FYI, piece armor bash cancel does more damage than dizzy so theres that.
It is overperforming.
Militan1404 wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »100% Agree OP. Definitely need to change the SnB passive that gives 5% weapon damage to 2.5% weapon and 2.5% spell damage. It's a nerf... and a buff for some of us.
Why on earth should sword&board do mag dmg??? Dosent make any sense at all
mDK and magplar have to run S/B since both are classes with a melee spammable. Besides, 2.5 % spell and wpn dmg do not harm tanks
I think problem is how ZOS treats SnB as a damage weapon. ZOS just needs to make it an actual tanking weapon instead. Just like how Resto Staff is only for healing and no damage at all. SnB should be only for tanking and no damage at all. I would happily take better tanking stats and lose all damage capabilities. Utility is whole another thing though as it's the core of PvE tanking. Major Breach, Major Fracture, Minor Maim, Minor Heroism, block cost reduction and block mitigation should stay. Absurd damage and snare of Heroic Slash, 10% Weapon Damage passive, 100% bash damage increase all need to be reworked into actual tanking bonuses. When you look at someone in PvP being on their Resto bar, you say "ok he's going defensive and gonna heal" but when you look at someone who is on SnB bar, you say "ok he's gonna rek my face". You just know there is a problem when SnB is being used for damage and 2H for buffs and heal.
SilverPaws wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »it has
no bleed
no dot
no aoe
no execute
and no high damage spamable (pierce armor can be used as a spamable, but not on the level of uppercut, snipe, etc)
and receives half benefit from enchants
the WHOLE POINT of the line is utility, you give up every kind of relevant damage in the game FOR that utility, that's the point.
PS: listing "snare" as a utility is dumb, almost every darn skill in this game applies a "snare" its something we are all quite annoyed about.
How can you compare piece armor to snipe or dizzy? That alone just invalidates everything youve said as snipe and dizzy have cast times and are not comparable.
FYI, piece armor bash cancel does more damage than dizzy so theres that.
It is overperforming.
Telling that pierce armor with bash does more damage than burst build with dizzy You have no idea what you talk about
If I were going to "fix" snb, I'd start with completely removing the damage increase on bash. I think this gets overlooked by a lot of people but the bash is what allows snb to apply more pressure than it probably should. I don't really think bash was intended to be 20%+ of someone's damage.
it has
no bleed
no dot
no aoe
no execute
and no high damage spamable (pierce armor can be used as a spamable, but not on the level of uppercut, snipe, etc)
and receives half benefit from enchants
the WHOLE POINT of the line is utility, you give up every kind of relevant damage in the game FOR that utility, that's the point.
PS: listing "snare" as a utility is dumb, almost every darn skill in this game applies a "snare" its something we are all quite annoyed about.
Extremely biased answer here.
1. "no bleed" The role of bleed is to put pressure. Defile put huge pressure. You also forgot that you can bar swap to an other weapon
2. "no dot" Stam build have either class dot or class burst. Again, you also forget that you can dot from other weapon skill line with a bar swap.
3. "no AoE" Granted, even if it's not the purpose of the weapon
4. "no execute" Every single decent stam build run 2h for rally/FM, the stamina execute can be on 2H.
5. "no high damage spamable" this is the worst. It has been proove several time that S&B spammable deal more damage than uppercut and especially this patch, using LA/ransack/bash deal more damage and is cheaper than using cast time skills like uppercut or snipe.
S&B is op for some reasons :
-You can have a high damage spammable (500 less damage than surpise attack) + having 60% snare + minor heroism + minor main.
-You can also choose ransack for better damage at cheaper cost (bash+ransack+major fracture is better damage than all other spammable for a cheap cost), applying major fractue and giving minor resolve.
-You can combine it with a stun that deal damage and apply MAJOR DEFILE, which is the most powerfull debuff in the game.
-You can slot one of the best defensive ultimate if your class doesn't have one : spell wall.
- By having Huge damage and utility, you also have passively the best defensive weapon in the game, giving better and cheaper block, additional resist and armor trait.
S&B is the best damage weapon for single target in PvP and also the best defensive weapon, both make it the best 1vX and 1v1 weapon in the game.
You can back bar 2h for rally/FM and add execute if needed. You can also use carve next patch for ur lovely bleed.
The fact that S&B is a better single target offensive weapon than every other one while also being the best defensive weapon make it OP. That's simple.
GeorgeBlack wrote: »SnB provides extreme endurance with it's benefits in regards to blocking.
However SnB is the strongest stamina weapon because it also has tooltips with fairly high direct dmg and extra bash dmg. I contrast DW 2h and Bow do not have spammables that can be animation cancelled as smooth as Low Slash, Puncture, Reverb Bash. This results in SnB being a more agressive weapon than the other 3.
And if you are not convinced that SnB is the best choice for all stamina classes let us see how many tools SnB has in addition to it's defensive superiority and offensive superiority:
Gap closer
CC
Defile
Breach
Fracture
Heroism
Maim
Resolve
Snare
All for low stamina costing abilities and an ulti that should be situational but due to it's low cost (in combination with heroism) provides great mitigation with no drawbacks.
SnB enables all stamina Classes to perform better against any other stamina weapon combinations and it needs to be looked at after 5 years.
This is coming from a stamDK.