Saving Trading in ESO

redmoonga · July 2019

I believe the guild trader system in ESO is an experience on its own and worth saving. To many of the players, this is our reason for playing.

First, we need an investment by ZOS into the trading economy. I've seen the trend of the desired items and gear being Bind on Pickup, leaving what is available in stores as a second or third alternative to what is Best in Slot. There has been zero progression of gear levels, leaving the demand for raw materials lacking. The advent of great shopping tools like Tamriel Trade Center allow members to instantly teleport to the lowest cost items, driving prices on consumable items to barely above creation cost. Any deals that can be found are quickly found with these tools by professional traders and relisted.
I would like to see some positive changes that increase the amount of Bind on Equip items that are Best in Slot. These items could be quite rare and demand for them would nearly always be present. I would like to see the gear level progressed to 200 CP and new materials introduced. The ability to update current gear to CP200 gear would improve the economy without player backlash. As ZOS is interested in balance, cost at various traders could be balanced by a city buyer tax as well. Buying from a non-city, single trader would have no added cost. Buying from a city where the combined bids are a 100 Million gold plus would have a balancing city tax added (gold sink). City tax would vary between those points based on the combined trader bids, and be very evident at the point of sale before purchase. There may be even better solutions available, but seeing progress in the area of investment into the economy, by any means, is needed.

Next, we need an a larger investment by ZOS into the trading guilds. Recently we have seen this bar being raised with items like the Guild Finder Tool. This was great and for a little thing, helped out tremendously. That will do much to equalize the differences between larger and smaller guilds. I feel that more needs to be done though. Guilds can not progress, they do not have anything they can work toward collectively besides donating for the weekly trader bids. There are no guild achievements, levels or any sort of progression. Surely something could be found to fill this void and be done on the scale to add flavor to existing guilds. Perhaps Guilds need perk trees. Depending on the way you earn and fill them out, your guild could be as unique as an individual character. (Maybe even could mitigate some of that city tax if everyone works hard at it!!, or PVP perks, or crafting material reductions). Give people more reasons to be excited about helping out the guilds they are in while making them unique and interesting.

Lastly, create incentive for selling through a guild. Even if it's just some achievements, it could have a large impact on the economy. Selling an item worth over 100k, selling a ta (snake oil seller), filling up your 30 selling slots in a guild (here to get rich), Member for 1 year (Loyal to the Guild), etc. I know these things would take some time, they would take some effort.

It would be really awesome and inspire much confidence if we could hear that these issues are on the radar. That these issues (not necessarily my suggested solutions) are important to ZOS and really, that ZOS has a plan to address them.

Thank you,

Redmoonga, GM of Black Dragon Apothecary
http://tiny.cc/dragonscore

Gandrhulf_Harbard · July 2019

With the new Bid System all Guilds will be required to have Guild Fees.

Nothing on this earth could incentivise me to join a guild that has mandatory Guild Fees.

And IMO any trade Guild that needs Kiosk Sold Items to be Bind On Pickup is a Trade Guild that doesn't know how to Trade - and deserves to go to the wall.

You want to make Trade fun, easier to access, better for both sellers and buyers?

Put in a system that allows EVERYONE to be a Seller AND a Buyer as easily as possible.
Right now that is NOT the Kiosk System; but with a bit of clever thinking it could be.

All The Best

barney2525 · July 2019

You lost me on " To many of the players, this is our reason for playing."

If trading is the only reason you are playing in this game, you are missing the vast majority of the game. And thus, I question your use of the term ' Many ' .

barney2525 · July 2019

While wading through the post I noticed this nugget " Any deals that can be found are quickly found with these tools by professional traders and relisted."

How is this good for anyone? A nice fast tool to find and grab items that are listed low, just because the seller wants it to move fast, and gets grabbed fast and relisted - in short - Let's jack up the price on everything and scrugee the customer!

Maybe they need a different system to get people out of the trade-house and actually playing the game. After 6 months in a guild you are auto-dumped and cannot rejoin the previous guild for a year. No one is excluded.

redmoonga · July 2019

barney2525 wrote: »

You lost me on " To many of the players, this is our reason for playing."

If trading is the only reason you are playing in this game, you are missing the vast majority of the game. And thus, I question your use of the term ' Many ' .

It's an MMO, you can really do anything you want in the sandbox environment. I'm not saying that's the only thing I do, but being a GM of a trade guild is the hook that has kept me playing this game.

-Redmoonga, GM of Black Dragon Apothecary
http://tiny.cc/dragonscore

redmoonga · July 2019

barney2525 wrote: »

While wading through the post I noticed this nugget " Any deals that can be found are quickly found with these tools by professional traders and relisted."

How is this good for anyone? A nice fast tool to find and grab items that are listed low, just because the seller wants it to move fast, and gets grabbed fast and relisted - in short - Let's jack up the price on everything and scrugee the customer!

Maybe they need a different system to get people out of the trade-house and actually playing the game. After 6 months in a guild you are auto-dumped and cannot rejoin the previous guild for a year. No one is excluded.

If you booted the GM's and officers, there wouldn't be a guild. You might as well suggest that after six months that guilds auto-disband. That's not in my vision of a better ESO to be sure.

As for the sellers buying low cost items and relisting, I didn't say it was a good thing. But it's certainly good for the high volume buyers and sellers that frequent the smaller markets. I did suggest the city tax that would throw a bit of a spin on relisting though (centralization of goods sold).

-Redmoonga, GM of Black Dragon Apothecary
http://tiny.cc/dragonscore

KerinKor · July 2019

redmoonga wrote: »

I believe the guild trader system in ESO is an experience on its own and worth saving. To many of the players, this is our reason for playing.

The lack of an AH is and always has been a major 'con' of playing this game .. I have just over 1M gold that I'll never spend because I refuse to trudge the world looking at guild traders to see if what I want is for sale and for how much .. it was a totally asinine system in FFXIV 1.0 and it's totally asinine in ESO.

Far from being 'saved' it should be killed off entirely.

redmoonga · July 2019

KerinKor wrote: »

redmoonga wrote: »

I believe the guild trader system in ESO is an experience on its own and worth saving. To many of the players, this is our reason for playing.

The lack of an AH is and always has been a major 'con' of playing this game .. I have just over 1M gold that I'll never spend because I refuse to trudge the world looking at guild traders to see if what I want is for sale and for how much .. it was a totally asinine system in FFXIV 1.0 and it's totally asinine in ESO.

Far from being 'saved' it should be killed off entirely.

Well, you could use a tool like Tamriel Trade center which would tell you exactly where what you wanted was and for how much. Kinda like a quest marker. Some can figure it out without it, but for the rest it's there to follow.

-Redmoonga, GM of Black Dragon Apothecary
http://tiny.cc/dragonscore

kargen27 · July 2019

barney2525 wrote: »

You lost me on " To many of the players, this is our reason for playing."

If trading is the only reason you are playing in this game, you are missing the vast majority of the game. And thus, I question your use of the term ' Many ' .

You probably shouldn't. I know plenty of people that base everything they do in the game around buying/selling. Some people play the game for PvP only. Some play only for trials. Some base everything they do in the game on role playing. Trading is no different. Trading for many is the most fun part of the game and everything they do in the game is based around that.

Thorvik_Tyrson · July 2019

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

And IMO any trade Guild that needs Kiosk Sold Items to be Bind On Pickup is a Trade Guild that doesn't know how to Trade - and deserves to go to the wall.

I think you miss-read his original post. @redmoonga did not say that he wanted to sell items that were BoP. He said he wanted more BoE items that could be sold.

Tandor · July 2019

kargen27 wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You lost me on " To many of the players, this is our reason for playing."

If trading is the only reason you are playing in this game, you are missing the vast majority of the game. And thus, I question your use of the term ' Many ' .

You probably shouldn't. I know plenty of people that base everything they do in the game around buying/selling. Some people play the game for PvP only. Some play only for trials. Some base everything they do in the game on role playing. Trading is no different. Trading for many is the most fun part of the game and everything they do in the game is based around that.

That doesn't mean that what in any MMO is a core aspect of everyone's gameplay should be based solely around the considerations of those whose enjoyment is centred on that core aspect. PvP, trials and role playing aren't based exclusively on those who regard those things as being the sole or main reason for them playing the game, anyone can join in as little or as much as they want at any time, so why should the trading system be so restricted? It needs opening up, not made even more exclusive with e.g. special achievements in addition to the millions banked by a comparative few traders.

I don't especially want an auction house, although that would be preferable to the present system as it is (with the supposed disadvantages of an auction house already evident in the present system), I'd be happy for the present system to be opened up so that everyone can undertake a minimal level of selling through a few NPC traders and with a proper search function for buyers. It shouldn't be necessary to tell two-thirds of the playerbase that they wouldn't have any problem with the present system if they only played on a different platform.

Vicinia · July 2019

redmoonga wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

redmoonga wrote: »

I believe the guild trader system in ESO is an experience on its own and worth saving. To many of the players, this is our reason for playing.

The lack of an AH is and always has been a major 'con' of playing this game .. I have just over 1M gold that I'll never spend because I refuse to trudge the world looking at guild traders to see if what I want is for sale and for how much .. it was a totally asinine system in FFXIV 1.0 and it's totally asinine in ESO.

Far from being 'saved' it should be killed off entirely.

Well, you could use a tool like Tamriel Trade center which would tell you exactly where what you wanted was and for how much. Kinda like a quest marker. Some can figure it out without it, but for the rest it's there to follow.

-Redmoonga, GM of Black Dragon Apothecary
http://tiny.cc/dragonscore

Only PC players have that option. Console players have to travel the world in search of items. And we've only been graced with the search function recently. Imagine trying to find an item without searching it up, or knowing where it's at. You'd have to scroll endless to find what you needed, and that was one guild trader at a time. This was our reality for quite some time. Although the search function lifted some of the burden, you still have to trek around the realm to buy things.

It would be nice if we had anything close to TTC. This system makes buying and selling excessively tedious and tiresome for no reason at all. I'm not going to even get into how selling is gated by joining a guild you must pay dues to. I'm with @KerinKor on this.

Pevey · July 2019

Sad to see the first two replies completely miss the point of the OP. It is a very insightful post from a long-time GM of one of the very top volume traders on PCNA.

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

With the new Bid System all Guilds will be required to have Guild Fees.

And IMO any trade Guild that needs Kiosk Sold Items to be Bind On Pickup is a Trade Guild that doesn't know how to Trade - and deserves to go to the wall.

The OP is asking for MORE items to be BoE, NOT BoP. Did you even read the OP before responding?

barney2525 wrote: »

You lost me on " To many of the players, this is our reason for playing."

If trading is the only reason you are playing in this game, you are missing the vast majority of the game. And thus, I question your use of the term ' Many ' .

Thanks for your opinion? What the OP said is true, many people (especially end-game players who have already experienced the vast majority of what the game has to offer) play ESO as an econ sandbox. The fact that it is not true for you is irrelevant.

In any case, I thank the OP for their comment. The "city tax" is a very interesting idea I hadn't heard yet, and it's especially interesting to see if come from the GM of a "city guild."

redmoonga · July 2019

Tandor wrote: »

That doesn't mean that what in any MMO is a core aspect of everyone's gameplay should be based solely around the considerations of those whose enjoyment is centred on that core aspect. PvP, trials and role playing aren't based exclusively on those who regard those things as being the sole or main reason for them playing the game, anyone can join in as little or as much as they want at any time, so why should the trading system be so restricted? It needs opening up, not made even more exclusive with e.g. special achievements in addition to the millions banked by a comparative few traders.

PVP has special achievements, that doesn't make it more exclusive. Adding achievements to guild trading would not make it more exclusive either. Anyone can join a guild and sell as little or as much as they want at any time (up to the 30 item per guild limit). The Guild Finder Tool has made that easier than ever.

How exactly do you feel restricted?

-Redmoonga, GM of Black Dragon Apothecary
http://tiny.cc/dragonscore

redmoonga · July 2019

Vicinia wrote: »

redmoonga wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

redmoonga wrote: »

I believe the guild trader system in ESO is an experience on its own and worth saving. To many of the players, this is our reason for playing.

The lack of an AH is and always has been a major 'con' of playing this game .. I have just over 1M gold that I'll never spend because I refuse to trudge the world looking at guild traders to see if what I want is for sale and for how much .. it was a totally asinine system in FFXIV 1.0 and it's totally asinine in ESO.

Far from being 'saved' it should be killed off entirely.

Well, you could use a tool like Tamriel Trade center which would tell you exactly where what you wanted was and for how much. Kinda like a quest marker. Some can figure it out without it, but for the rest it's there to follow.

-Redmoonga, GM of Black Dragon Apothecary
http://tiny.cc/dragonscore

Only PC players have that option. Console players have to travel the world in search of items. And we've only been graced with the search function recently. Imagine trying to find an item without searching it up, or knowing where it's at. You'd have to scroll endless to find what you needed, and that was one guild trader at a time. This was our reality for quite some time. Although the search function lifted some of the burden, you still have to trek around the realm to buy things.

It would be nice if we had anything close to TTC. This system makes buying and selling excessively tedious and tiresome for no reason at all. I'm not going to even get into how selling is gated by joining a guild you must pay dues to. I'm with @KerinKor on this.

I'm totally going out on a limb here not being a console player, but if you goto the Tamriel Trade Center website I believe it does have that information for console players. (I totally could be wrong here, and you would have to open a web browser of some sort to access the data which may be a pain too). I've heard they are making great advances in getting addons for console players as well, maybe pushing for that feature would be something great Zos could do for the console community. Thanks so much for explaining your viewpoint on this.

-Redmoonga, GM of Black Dragon Apothecary
http://tiny.cc/dragonscore

Kidgangster101 · July 2019

@redmoonga you do realize the reason people have hundreds of millions even billions in this game is because of this trading system right? If we had a global ah in this game a lot more people would be actually selling items. (People that have that kind of money now have little to no competition to drive the prices of items down)

@KerinKor was right about ff14 1.0 because it had no global ah at launch. They re launched the game and made sure it was in the game because it gave EVERYONE a chance to sell and buy items, not just the people that will pay dues (already seen them go up to 25-30k per week on console due to the new announced change, and casual players might make that gold in a week so it prohibits them from a section of the game and that is not cool).

@Vicinia is absolutely right. We wanted a chest piece say, we use to have to set search options to "heavy chest" and literally go through every single heavy chest piece in the game. If we wanted a full set of that heavy piece we had to do it at least 5 times. Then we had to do that at every single trader in the entire game.......... This right here is the major reason we have a guild Monopoly (mafia) at the major cities because no one wants to go all over the world when we just need 1 item. People also can't find crafting items easy either (getting low level alchemy mats just as an example) are very very hard/impossible to find in current trader. But if we had a global ah it would be posted and I could make potions easier for my low level in PvP/pve or even to level my crafting with.

These problems exists because people claim this trading system is so great. (This is great for people that put in time not casual players who want to save up gold to make a purchase of items or housing or whatever it is. This game is one of the easiest most casual friendly MMOs out there except when it comes to trading).

It is sad when sometimes it is harder to find an item that goes for 8,000 gold than it is to beat veteran content........ Take that in for a second lol.

Vicinia · July 2019

redmoonga wrote: »

Vicinia wrote: »

redmoonga wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

redmoonga wrote: »

I believe the guild trader system in ESO is an experience on its own and worth saving. To many of the players, this is our reason for playing.

The lack of an AH is and always has been a major 'con' of playing this game .. I have just over 1M gold that I'll never spend because I refuse to trudge the world looking at guild traders to see if what I want is for sale and for how much .. it was a totally asinine system in FFXIV 1.0 and it's totally asinine in ESO.

Far from being 'saved' it should be killed off entirely.

Well, you could use a tool like Tamriel Trade center which would tell you exactly where what you wanted was and for how much. Kinda like a quest marker. Some can figure it out without it, but for the rest it's there to follow.

-Redmoonga, GM of Black Dragon Apothecary
http://tiny.cc/dragonscore

Only PC players have that option. Console players have to travel the world in search of items. And we've only been graced with the search function recently. Imagine trying to find an item without searching it up, or knowing where it's at. You'd have to scroll endless to find what you needed, and that was one guild trader at a time. This was our reality for quite some time. Although the search function lifted some of the burden, you still have to trek around the realm to buy things.

It would be nice if we had anything close to TTC. This system makes buying and selling excessively tedious and tiresome for no reason at all. I'm not going to even get into how selling is gated by joining a guild you must pay dues to. I'm with @KerinKor on this.

I'm totally going out on a limb here not being a console player, but if you goto the Tamriel Trade Center website I believe it does have that information for console players. (I totally could be wrong here, and you would have to open a web browser of some sort to access the data which may be a pain too). I've heard they are making great advances in getting addons for console players as well, maybe pushing for that feature would be something great Zos could do for the console community. Thanks so much for explaining your viewpoint on this.

-Redmoonga, GM of Black Dragon Apothecary
http://tiny.cc/dragonscore

Unfortunately it isn't very helpful. I could see it being marginally helpful in understanding the general worth of an item. But it doesn't help with the needless legwork we put up with to participate in the economy as a buyer. Being a seller is almost as unpleasant.

Add-ons would be nice, but ZOS should have certain things like this baked into the base of the game. Although I would rather have a GAH, I'd be fine with some sort of compromise. Even having NPC stationed at various capitals that let us see what is selling around the realm so then we can just go there.

But this system is far too flawed for my liking. Too much corruption (Especially on PS4NA) , and far too restrictive.

No worries. At least you're open to talk about this. When anyone mentions a GAH, some people get angry for some strange reason and become combative.

Thorvik_Tyrson · July 2019

If ZOS wants to save the trading system, it needs a major overhaul and adjustments to make it available to everyone and not just a select group of traders.

Like @Gandrhulf_Harbard, I too believe this:
Put in a system that allows EVERYONE to be a Seller AND a Buyer as easily as possible.

I opened another thread with one suggestion for how to possibly make the trading system more inclusive to EVERYONE.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/481766/proposal-increase-the-number-of-guilds-that-a-npc-trader-supports#latest

Back to the OP's comments.
Now I do not agree that BIS gear should necessarily be tradable. I am fine with Trial gear being BoP. If you make it BOE, then you open the game up to being much more blatantly Pay to Win. The point that I want to make is that the way that ESO is currently working, there isnt any one piece for a class that is BIS for all builds. This BIS item will vary based on what type of build that you want to go with. According to the build that I am using for my MagSorc Pet build. Guess what? It uses 2 overland sets and they already are tradeable! This variety of gear sets is one of the strong points that I see for the ESO way of doing things.

Gear is fine as it is at 50/160 with CP810 being the cap. raising gear to 50/200 will not have the desired effect that you think it will. In order to balance out things and not have too much power creep, then would have to nerf other parts of the game in order to balance out this increase from 160 to 200.

New Materials? For what exactly?? Are you wanting to obsolete older crafting materials so that you can corner the market on anything newer? We already cant find current materials at a reasonable price in any quantity. This to me is a big turn off to the current trading system.

City Tax? (Convenience Fee?) ROTFLMAO!!! This will drive away even more buyers than the current system already is. This also blatantly shows your bias to being focused on the seller with little regard for the buyer. If ZOS really wants more gold sink, all that they need to do is expand the housing system to allow some of the high end properties that are currently only available for crowns to be purchased for in game gold.

You just gave me a radical idea based off the above. Add Real Estate sales to the game. Make it so that you could buy an already furnished house. :-O This would of course have fee's and taxes associated with it (Gold sink)
And along that line, Add taxes on the existing real estate. (See lots of other ways to add gold sinks to the game.)

IMO, In order to be more inclusive of everyone, they should split the Materials and possibly also the consumables into a global AH, Keeping the rest of the higher cost items in the trading system. If they don't go that route, then they need to at least double or triple the amount of trader spots available for guilds so that there are enough materials available at a reasonable cost to meet the demand.

That is enough for this wall of text.
Thorvik

Odovacar · July 2019

Traderlivesmatter!

Proud reaper of death

wolfie1.0. · July 2019

Increase the number of kiosks, increase number of people allowed into a guild, increase the amount of items a person can sell. That's really all they need to do.

As for playing the economy. Well some people have their pvp, and others their PVE, I have my player vs economy endgame. Let me play mine and I wont interfer with yours

redmoonga · July 2019

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

@redmoonga you do realize the reason people have hundreds of millions even billions in this game is because of this trading system right? If we had a global ah in this game a lot more people would be actually selling items. (People that have that kind of money now have little to no competition to drive the prices of items down)

I have to disagree with "little to no competition". The term I usually hear is "cut throat" even within the same guild, let alone across all traders. There is plenty of people willing to use the current system and the competition is fierce.

The things I addressed had to do with the economy, which still exists regardless of the system used to sell. I did tailor the message to use the current system, yes. Sometimes we don't get to pick a system, sometimes we just have to roll with what's there and give some good input to make it as good as it can be.

Maybe there needs to be some sort of interactive tutorial on how to join a guild, sell items, etc. Maybe it should finish with the option to join an existing help guild (by way of the guild invite tool). I'm all for making the path easier and more inclusive.

That being said, I know there are a lot of people who would prefer an auction house of some type. I feel that brings back memories of a different game and I don't think that Zos wants to move in that direction imo.

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

@Vicinia is absolutely right. We wanted a chest piece say, we use to have to set search options to "heavy chest" and literally go through every single heavy chest piece in the game. If we wanted a full set of that heavy piece we had to do it at least 5 times. Then we had to do that at every single trader in the entire game.......... This right here is the major reason we have a guild Monopoly (mafia) at the major cities because no one wants to go all over the world when we just need 1 item. People also can't find crafting items easy either (getting low level alchemy mats just as an example) are very very hard/impossible to find in current trader. But if we had a global ah it would be posted and I could make potions easier for my low level in PvP/pve or even to level my crafting with.

I'm totally for some sort of global search tool. In the meantime there is the Tamriel Trade Center website.

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

These problems exists because people claim this trading system is so great. (This is great for people that put in time not casual players who want to save up gold to make a purchase of items or housing or whatever it is. This game is one of the easiest most casual friendly MMOs out there except when it comes to trading).

Selling is one of the best ways to save up for weekly luxury housing items or houses. See my earlier note on requesting a trade tutorial. There are other ways to make things better and more accessible rather than telling them to reinvent the wheel with systems that other games have had. I think that would be much to large of an undertaking for a game that is this developed imo.

-Redmoonga, GM of Black Dragon Apothecary
http://tiny.cc/dragonscore

kargen27 · July 2019

Tandor wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You lost me on " To many of the players, this is our reason for playing."

If trading is the only reason you are playing in this game, you are missing the vast majority of the game. And thus, I question your use of the term ' Many ' .

You probably shouldn't. I know plenty of people that base everything they do in the game around buying/selling. Some people play the game for PvP only. Some play only for trials. Some base everything they do in the game on role playing. Trading is no different. Trading for many is the most fun part of the game and everything they do in the game is based around that.

That doesn't mean that what in any MMO is a core aspect of everyone's gameplay should be based solely around the considerations of those whose enjoyment is centred on that core aspect. PvP, trials and role playing aren't based exclusively on those who regard those things as being the sole or main reason for them playing the game, anyone can join in as little or as much as they want at any time, so why should the trading system be so restricted? It needs opening up, not made even more exclusive with e.g. special achievements in addition to the millions banked by a comparative few traders.

I don't especially want an auction house, although that would be preferable to the present system as it is (with the supposed disadvantages of an auction house already evident in the present system), I'd be happy for the present system to be opened up so that everyone can undertake a minimal level of selling through a few NPC traders and with a proper search function for buyers. It shouldn't be necessary to tell two-thirds of the playerbase that they wouldn't have any problem with the present system if they only played on a different platform.

I was simply commenting on the question about players trading almost exclusively in the game. The author of that post dismissed that people might be playing the game for the single reason of trading. That simply isn't true.

I don't think we need achievements for selling through the guild store. The incentives to participate are already there. I would like to see a central board in each zone that would allow a player to see what every trader in that zone has. I feel it should not include price though. That way those who just want an item and don't care about price can see where it is and go buy it. Those who are looking for a bargain are still going to have to visit each trader to see what the prices are. Part of the fun in flipping items is the hunt for cheap things to buy. Not listing prices keeps this in play.

I also think there should be an increase in the number of available traders in the game. If I had my way there would be a 2nd trader added beside all the single traders out there in the boonies and thieves dens. Having two options in each location instead of one would entice more players to maybe go out of their way a bit while out and about saving the world.

It might be a nightmare programming wise but I wouldn't object to a single trader in each zone made available to guilds with 100 members or more that do not have a trader. When guilds hit 100 members a zone will be randomly selected for them and the trader in that zone would be made available to them. Each member could list 15 items. If they bid on a trader they wouldn't be eligible for the open trader that week. Basically this would be for guilds that have no interest in a guild trader but would allow their members a chance to trade. This would not be a fall back for guilds wanting a trader. I'm thinking an extra five percent tax applied to each item to still give incentive to try for a guild trader. Also I kinda think the trader should be located in a secondary town/area in the zone.

redmoonga · July 2019

Vicinia wrote: »

redmoonga wrote: »

Vicinia wrote: »

redmoonga wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

redmoonga wrote: »

I believe the guild trader system in ESO is an experience on its own and worth saving. To many of the players, this is our reason for playing.

The lack of an AH is and always has been a major 'con' of playing this game .. I have just over 1M gold that I'll never spend because I refuse to trudge the world looking at guild traders to see if what I want is for sale and for how much .. it was a totally asinine system in FFXIV 1.0 and it's totally asinine in ESO.

Far from being 'saved' it should be killed off entirely.

Well, you could use a tool like Tamriel Trade center which would tell you exactly where what you wanted was and for how much. Kinda like a quest marker. Some can figure it out without it, but for the rest it's there to follow.

-Redmoonga, GM of Black Dragon Apothecary
http://tiny.cc/dragonscore

Only PC players have that option. Console players have to travel the world in search of items. And we've only been graced with the search function recently. Imagine trying to find an item without searching it up, or knowing where it's at. You'd have to scroll endless to find what you needed, and that was one guild trader at a time. This was our reality for quite some time. Although the search function lifted some of the burden, you still have to trek around the realm to buy things.

It would be nice if we had anything close to TTC. This system makes buying and selling excessively tedious and tiresome for no reason at all. I'm not going to even get into how selling is gated by joining a guild you must pay dues to. I'm with @KerinKor on this.

I'm totally going out on a limb here not being a console player, but if you goto the Tamriel Trade Center website I believe it does have that information for console players. (I totally could be wrong here, and you would have to open a web browser of some sort to access the data which may be a pain too). I've heard they are making great advances in getting addons for console players as well, maybe pushing for that feature would be something great Zos could do for the console community. Thanks so much for explaining your viewpoint on this.

-Redmoonga, GM of Black Dragon Apothecary
http://tiny.cc/dragonscore

Unfortunately it isn't very helpful. I could see it being marginally helpful in understanding the general worth of an item. But it doesn't help with the needless legwork we put up with to participate in the economy as a buyer. Being a seller is almost as unpleasant.

Add-ons would be nice, but ZOS should have certain things like this baked into the base of the game. Although I would rather have a GAH, I'd be fine with some sort of compromise. Even having NPC stationed at various capitals that let us see what is selling around the realm so then we can just go there.

But this system is far too flawed for my liking. Too much corruption (Especially on PS4NA) , and far too restrictive.

No worries. At least you're open to talk about this. When anyone mentions a GAH, some people get angry for some strange reason and become combative.

You can never find a compromise if you don't listen to people. If there are people pushing for an AH as hard as they are it shows there are improvements to be made. It feels good to have people agree with you, but you can only learn from those that don't.

-Red

KerinKor · July 2019

redmoonga wrote: »

Well, you could use a tool like Tamriel Trade center which would tell you exactly where what you wanted was and for how much. Kinda like a quest marker. Some can figure it out without it, but for the rest it's there to follow.

So you're saying I have to use a third-party add-on/site to be able to sensibly access the market in this ill-begotten economy?

Okay, you make my point for me .. it's an asinine system.

redmoonga · July 2019

Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »

If ZOS wants to save the trading system, it needs a major overhaul and adjustments to make it available to everyone and not just a select group of traders.

Like @Gandrhulf_Harbard, I too believe this:
Put in a system that allows EVERYONE to be a Seller AND a Buyer as easily as possible.

I opened another thread with one suggestion for how to possibly make the trading system more inclusive to EVERYONE.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/481766/proposal-increase-the-number-of-guilds-that-a-npc-trader-supports#latest

Back to the OP's comments.
Now I do not agree that BIS gear should necessarily be tradable. I am fine with Trial gear being BoP. If you make it BOE, then you open the game up to being much more blatantly Pay to Win. The point that I want to make is that the way that ESO is currently working, there isnt any one piece for a class that is BIS for all builds. This BIS item will vary based on what type of build that you want to go with. According to the build that I am using for my MagSorc Pet build. Guess what? It uses 2 overland sets and they already are tradeable! This variety of gear sets is one of the strong points that I see for the ESO way of doing things.

Gear is fine as it is at 50/160 with CP810 being the cap. raising gear to 50/200 will not have the desired effect that you think it will. In order to balance out things and not have too much power creep, then would have to nerf other parts of the game in order to balance out this increase from 160 to 200.

New Materials? For what exactly?? Are you wanting to obsolete older crafting materials so that you can corner the market on anything newer? We already cant find current materials at a reasonable price in any quantity. This to me is a big turn off to the current trading system.

City Tax? (Convenience Fee?) ROTFLMAO!!! This will drive away even more buyers than the current system already is. This also blatantly shows your bias to being focused on the seller with little regard for the buyer. If ZOS really wants more gold sink, all that they need to do is expand the housing system to allow some of the high end properties that are currently only available for crowns to be purchased for in game gold.

You just gave me a radical idea based off the above. Add Real Estate sales to the game. Make it so that you could buy an already furnished house. :-O This would of course have fee's and taxes associated with it (Gold sink)
And along that line, Add taxes on the existing real estate. (See lots of other ways to add gold sinks to the game.)

IMO, In order to be more inclusive of everyone, they should split the Materials and possibly also the consumables into a global AH, Keeping the rest of the higher cost items in the trading system. If they don't go that route, then they need to at least double or triple the amount of trader spots available for guilds so that there are enough materials available at a reasonable cost to meet the demand.

That is enough for this wall of text.
Thorvik

I am always glad to amuse and inspire.
-Red

redmoonga · July 2019

KerinKor wrote: »

redmoonga wrote: »

Well, you could use a tool like Tamriel Trade center which would tell you exactly where what you wanted was and for how much. Kinda like a quest marker. Some can figure it out without it, but for the rest it's there to follow.

So you're saying I have to use a third-party add-on/site to be able to sensibly access the market in this ill-begotten economy?

Okay, you make my point for me .. it's an asinine system.

Not the point I was making, but none-the-less point taken. I did say earlier that I thought incorporating a global search into the game would be a good idea.

-Red

MartiniDaniels · July 2019

barney2525 wrote: »

You lost me on " To many of the players, this is our reason for playing."

If trading is the only reason you are playing in this game, you are missing the vast majority of the game. And thus, I question your use of the term ' Many ' .

You don't think that a lot of players already completed all content, and given state of PVP, only trading is last reason to log in at all?

redmoonga · July 2019

kargen27 wrote: »

I also think there should be an increase in the number of available traders in the game. If I had my way there would be a 2nd trader added beside all the single traders out there in the boonies and thieves dens. Having two options in each location instead of one would entice more players to maybe go out of their way a bit while out and about saving the world.

It might be a nightmare programming wise but I wouldn't object to a single trader in each zone made available to guilds with 100 members or more that do not have a trader. When guilds hit 100 members a zone will be randomly selected for them and the trader in that zone would be made available to them. Each member could list 15 items. If they bid on a trader they wouldn't be eligible for the open trader that week. Basically this would be for guilds that have no interest in a guild trader but would allow their members a chance to trade. This would not be a fall back for guilds wanting a trader. I'm thinking an extra five percent tax applied to each item to still give incentive to try for a guild trader. Also I kinda think the trader should be located in a secondary town/area in the zone.

Trader placement can certainly be improved. Shuffle all the single traders into "Trade caravans" because there is safety in numbers. The could gather in more remote locations (of at least two if you want to keep them in the same zone). Then visiting these sites would be a bit more attractive. Three or four would be better, as would adding traders to the capital cities. So yes, I totally agree if not with the increase in the number of traders, but the distribution of them to make them more on par with other sites would improve the system.

-Red

Tandor · July 2019

redmoonga wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

That doesn't mean that what in any MMO is a core aspect of everyone's gameplay should be based solely around the considerations of those whose enjoyment is centred on that core aspect. PvP, trials and role playing aren't based exclusively on those who regard those things as being the sole or main reason for them playing the game, anyone can join in as little or as much as they want at any time, so why should the trading system be so restricted? It needs opening up, not made even more exclusive with e.g. special achievements in addition to the millions banked by a comparative few traders.

PVP has special achievements, that doesn't make it more exclusive. Adding achievements to guild trading would not make it more exclusive either. Anyone can join a guild and sell as little or as much as they want at any time (up to the 30 item per guild limit). The Guild Finder Tool has made that easier than ever.

How exactly do you feel restricted?

-Redmoonga, GM of Black Dragon Apothecary
http://tiny.cc/dragonscore

Because unlike in any other MMORPG I've played in the past 20 years trading is restricted to guild membership, with many of the guilds not permitting players to join and sell as little or as much as they want at any time. It's also severely restrictive for console players by effective trading being dependent on the use of addons which are not available to them (nor to PC players who prefer not to use addons). Finally, for sellers, it is restricted to members of those guilds that have won a kiosk each week. For buyers it is restricted to those who know their way round the world with ready access to the many traders (i.e. high level players only) and who are prepared to spend a lot of time checking out a load of trader locations in order to find what they're looking for at the best price.

redmoonga · July 2019

Tandor wrote: »

redmoonga wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

That doesn't mean that what in any MMO is a core aspect of everyone's gameplay should be based solely around the considerations of those whose enjoyment is centred on that core aspect. PvP, trials and role playing aren't based exclusively on those who regard those things as being the sole or main reason for them playing the game, anyone can join in as little or as much as they want at any time, so why should the trading system be so restricted? It needs opening up, not made even more exclusive with e.g. special achievements in addition to the millions banked by a comparative few traders.

PVP has special achievements, that doesn't make it more exclusive. Adding achievements to guild trading would not make it more exclusive either. Anyone can join a guild and sell as little or as much as they want at any time (up to the 30 item per guild limit). The Guild Finder Tool has made that easier than ever.

How exactly do you feel restricted?

-Redmoonga, GM of Black Dragon Apothecary
http://tiny.cc/dragonscore

Because unlike in any other MMORPG I've played in the past 20 years trading is restricted to guild membership, with many of the guilds not permitting players to join and sell as little or as much as they want at any time. It's also severely restrictive for console players by effective trading being dependent on the use of addons which are not available to them (nor to PC players who prefer not to use addons). Finally, for sellers, it is restricted to members of those guilds that have won a kiosk each week. For buyers it is restricted to those who know their way round the world with ready access to the many traders (i.e. high level players only) and who are prepared to spend a lot of time checking out a load of trader locations in order to find what they're looking for at the best price.

Yeah, that's all legit. There are trade guilds that win bids that have zero dues/fees/minimums though. By joining, you get access to be able to port to anyone in the guild (nearest wayshrine) picking up many new locations as you need. It seems the problem is it's own solution.

However I can see where having trading restricted to guild membership can be a turn off. I have nothing that can fix that. I can only suggest that people swallow the pill and see it's not as bad as they think. You can make far more from a guild than you give up in dues/fees/minimums, and the guilds need that in order to be able to win kiosk bids. It can be fun too, and you just might meet some people to do stuff with on the regular that will keep you from having to use the group finder tool.

-Red

code65536 · July 2019

redmoonga wrote: »

I would like to see some positive changes that increase the amount of Bind on Equip items that are Best in Slot.

No.

redmoonga wrote: »

I would like to see the gear level progressed to 200 CP

LOL. No.