xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Zero risk for the caster, makes it near impossible for outnumbered players to engage or escape. At launch, the longest range stuns were 20m, maybe 25m, and unaffected by PvP passives, for good reason. The fact that Destructive Reach and Draining Shot are cheap and spammable just adds insult to injury. You dodge or block the first few Draining Shots, here comes another 17 of them.

If max range stuns are going to remain in the game, they should be extremely expensive and punishing to spam. Otherwise, reduce the range and make ranged stun spammers risk actual PvP engagement. No, I'm not joining an organized ball zerg, nor am I going to run a build that holds block for 40 seconds straight.

Nah, Leash and Chains are far more destructive to solo players at range and they dont reach as far. Unblockable/undodgeable stuns are also destructive. Draining Shot, Javelin, and Destructive Reach are easy to deal with.

If you are standing in the open not blocking/dodging large groups of players you need to L2P.

Draining Shot overperforms because of its heal not because of its range as CC.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

If you are standing in the open not blocking/dodging large groups of players you need to L2P.

Some of us like to engage in keep battles, not just circle resource towers. It's nonstop 41m stuns from players safely atop walls or behind their zerg, with no intent on directly engaging you and no ability to actually kill you. Instead of fighting anyone, it's an endless loop of block, dodge, Break Free, Forward/Race/Shuffle.

ChunkyCat wrote: »

If you were 41 meters away from your opponent, and you still lost because of one stun, then you would have lost even if you were 4 meters away. The only difference being that you would have lost a lot faster.

It's never just one stun.

You've either never PvPed, or you're the guy spamming flame wheels on a solo from complete safety.

You guys don't get it. She's a very good player and is talking about several people targeting her with ranged CCs. That's tough for anyone.

Thanks @Aztlan but there's no point arguing with people who believe "more players = auto win" and don't understand that successive roll dodges increase in cost, while ranged stuns can be spammed nearly indefinitely from a safe distance by someone with no intent on directly engaging you, only an intent to make sure you can't escape the zerg chasing you.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

4 or 41 meters doesn't matter

Sanctum74 wrote: »

4 or 41 meters doesn't matter

Sanctum74 wrote: »

4 or 41 meters doesn't matter

I give up...

Have you tried dodging?

Wow, I notice those with 5+ stars reply with "L2P" or "gitgud", so sad.
As a PvP novice, I've needed to give up Cyrodiil since the Necro's came out, it's really awesome to get goliath bashed THROUGH a postern wall or a keep door, maybe I just need to learn to play better to be able to dodge roll out of those.

And the better ones are getting snipe ganked from above by a leaping invisible enemy player while standing on the top level on the inside keep balcony that is controlled by your faction, I guess that's another one of those "L2P" issues

Oh, and unlike the rest of the Grand Poo Poo's running under level 50 characters with gold gear and questionably ToS leagal add ons that alert the player as to when someone stealthed is in range or when to dodge roll.


My guild mates, only 350 of them have left ALL Cyrodiil campaigns because of the issues. So, you can have more fun in Cyrodiil. Enjoy rekting the novice players.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Zero risk for the caster, makes it near impossible for outnumbered players to engage or escape. At launch, the longest range stuns were 20m, maybe 25m, and unaffected by PvP passives, for good reason. The fact that Destructive Reach and Draining Shot are cheap and spammable just adds insult to injury. You dodge or block the first few Draining Shots, here comes another 17 of them.

If max range stuns are going to remain in the game, they should be extremely expensive and punishing to spam. Otherwise, reduce the range and make ranged stun spammers risk actual PvP engagement. No, I'm not joining an organized ball zerg, nor am I going to run a build that holds block for 40 seconds straight.

They need to make casting cc's have cost increase similar to streak or dodgeroll when casted repeatedly on a cc immune target. Need to add some brain use in pvp rather than cc/ light attack/ ulti dump.

Also if los actually worked properly: a host of long range skills actually go through or around objects. This should not be the case.

Mag Sorcs
Mag NB's
Mag Necro's
Stam anything with a bow

All of these can run offensive kits entirely at max range. They should not be immune to CC cause they are at range. I'm sorry that you stood in the open versus superior numbers, may I suggest looking for LOS.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

As previously stated I'd have no problem with max range stuns if it were cripplingly expensive to spam them. The people here defending spamming range stuns are just knee-jerking to the thought of it being harder for them to zerg solos from complete safety. If your first five Draining Shots or Fire Reaches get countered, you should be out of resources, not spamming another 17 of them until a target you're afraid to personally engage is stunned and zerged down.

Increasing the cost wouldn't help you when outnumbered though, you still have multiple people launching salvos of stuns at you.

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Increasing the cost wouldn't help you when outnumbered though, you still have multiple people launching salvos of stuns at you.

The best is the enemy of the better...

It wouldn't have me suddenly winning 1v20, but it would at least give me either an opportunity to create distance between myself and the zerg when they pause to regain resources, or occasionally an opportunity to get into melee range and kill one of the guys who exhausted his entire resource bar spamming stuns.

I'll mention again that there were no max range stuns at launch, stun abilities topped out at 20-25m and were not buffed by PvP passives. The original Combat Team recognized that stuns should require risk of actual PvP engagement, not wielded by risk-averse wallflowers against outnumbered players simply trying to disengage from the zerg and reach areas where they can use LoS or be supported by allies in large scale combat.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Increasing the cost wouldn't help you when outnumbered though, you still have multiple people launching salvos of stuns at you.

The best is the enemy of the better...

It wouldn't have me suddenly winning 1v20, but it would at least give me either an opportunity to create distance between myself and the zerg when they pause to regain resources, or occasionally an opportunity to get into melee range and kill one of the guys who exhausted his entire resource bar spamming stuns.

I'll mention again that there were no max range stuns at launch, stun abilities topped out at 20-25m and were not buffed by PvP passives. The original Combat Team recognized that stuns should require risk of actual PvP engagement, not wielded by risk-averse wallflowers against outnumbered players simply trying to disengage from the zerg and reach areas where they can use LoS or be supported by allies in large scale combat.

The original combat team lol, Invincible Vampire DKs, no thank you.

Apparently being able to maintain max range without being stunned is an advantage you feel you need. And you pretend others are zerglings LOLOLOL. Honestly it makes me think your real issue is you were trying to zerg someone down and they Draining Shot you out of gap close range.

Fighting zergs sucks but these CC's are the weakest CC's in game, they are blockable, dodgeable, and still reflectable with S&B ult. Most don't come with any powerful effects, one dodge can make several miss. Getting spammed with skills, CC's or otherwise, is a part of fighting larger numbers.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

max ranged cc should not be part of a pvp game. Nothing more to say. If you disagree its cause you crutch on it, because you cant do better. Now lets see by the responses who needs a crutch in pvp.

Executes should not be part of a pvp game. Nothing more to say. If you disagree its cause you crutch on it, because you cant do better. Now lets see by the responses who needs a crutch in pvp.

Roots should not be part of a pvp game. Nothing more to say. If you disagree its cause you crutch on it, because you cant do better. Now lets see by the responses who needs a crutch in pvp.

Smart healing should not be part of a pvp game. Nothing more to say. If you disagree its cause you crutch on it, because you cant do better. Now lets see by the responses who needs a crutch in pvp.


Anything can be placed in that slot because your statement is ignorant and foolish. Further Snipe has a longer range than any of those CC's so none of those CC's are "max range".

First of all, thanks for proving my point. Now we know where we stand. Ill try to treat you in a respectful manner nevertheless, so to answer your points; Executes. Whithout executes game would be even worse than where we are now with the HA meta. Next; Roots; Roots should have a diminishing returns. Im close to agreeing with you. Smart healing; Healing in CP campaign is way too overtuned and should indeed be tuned a lot down. So we agree on some things, but lets stick to what THIS topic is about; ranged CC. Btw, whataboutism is the foe of the free world.

It isn't a whataboutism, your statement was myopic. Your statement was essentially:

"I'm right your wrong, if you think I'm wrong its cause you are bad, end of story."

That's not an argument, thats not rational or reason. That is the statement of a child who is upset the world isn't going their way.

Dude your 'refutation' post was a case study on whataboutism by over generalizing his point and naming THREE unrelated game mechanics to the thread.

You also just did what you accused him of doing.

He responded to each point and you responded saying "hurr durr your short-sighted words show the intellect of a child". Trying to avoid the ad hominem charge by calling his words "myopic and petulant" (pretty much what you said, mister)?

Sit down black kettle. Or better yet, provide a counter argument.