Maintenance for the week of March 25:
• [IN PROGRESS] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 28, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)

Maximum range stuns (41m in PvP) make combat miserable

  • Mrsinister2
    Mrsinister2
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree there should be some kind of down side to spamming long range stuns.

    It makes fighting any one especially on a mag toon insanely annoying since your Stam goes so quick.

    I don't have a solution but anything would probably be better then machine gun ccs while I'm trying to fight people actually in front of me.
  • ChunkyCat
    ChunkyCat
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anti_Virus wrote: »
    Leingod wrote: »
    max ranged cc should not be part of a pvp game. Nothing more to say. If you disagree its cause you crutch on it, because you cant do better. Now lets see by the responses who needs a crutch in pvp.

    Executes should not be part of a pvp game. Nothing more to say. If you disagree its cause you crutch on it, because you cant do better. Now lets see by the responses who needs a crutch in pvp.

    Roots should not be part of a pvp game. Nothing more to say. If you disagree its cause you crutch on it, because you cant do better. Now lets see by the responses who needs a crutch in pvp.

    Smart healing should not be part of a pvp game. Nothing more to say. If you disagree its cause you crutch on it, because you cant do better. Now lets see by the responses who needs a crutch in pvp.


    Anything can be placed in that slot because your statement is ignorant and foolish. Further Snipe has a longer range than any of those CC's so none of those CC's are "max range".

    First of all, thanks for proving my point. Now we know where we stand. Ill try to treat you in a respectful manner nevertheless, so to answer your points; Executes. Whithout executes game would be even worse than where we are now with the HA meta. Next; Roots; Roots should have a diminishing returns. Im close to agreeing with you. Smart healing; Healing in CP campaign is way too overtuned and should indeed be tuned a lot down. So we agree on some things, but lets stick to what THIS topic is about; ranged CC. Btw, whataboutism is the foe of the free world.

    It isn't a whataboutism, your statement was myopic. Your statement was essentially:

    "I'm right your wrong, if you think I'm wrong its cause you are bad, end of story."

    That's not an argument, thats not rational or reason. That is the statement of a child who is upset the world isn't going their way.
    Dude your 'refutation' post was a case study on whataboutism by over generalizing his point and naming THREE unrelated game mechanics to the thread.

    You also just did what you accused him of doing.

    He responded to each point and you responded saying "hurr durr your short-sighted words show the intellect of a child". Trying to avoid the ad hominem charge by calling his words "myopic and petulant" (pretty much what you said, mister)?

    Sit down black kettle. Or better yet, provide a counter argument.

    This tends to be the majority posts on the forums instead of analyzing someones arguments instead you get "L2P/GitGud"

    Well, if someone is basing their “arguments” on a failure of understanding how to win a PvP encounter, then yeah. L2P is the correct response.
  • xylena_lazarow
    xylena_lazarow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    ChunkyCat wrote: »
    Well, if someone is basing their “arguments” on a failure of understanding how to win a PvP encounter, then yeah. L2P is the correct response.

    The people parroting "L2P" seem to think there is no difference between melee and range.
    Edited by xylena_lazarow on July 1, 2019 3:29AM
    PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps
  • ChunkyCat
    ChunkyCat
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    An ability that stuns from 41 meters away will stun for the same amount of time even if it were cast from 4 meters away.

    Congratulations on unlocking some basic game knowledge.

    zZQHiGd.jpg

  • killimandrosb16_ESO
    killimandrosb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ChunkyCat wrote: »
    An ability that stuns from 41 meters away will stun for the same amount of time even if it were cast from 4 meters away.

    Congratulations on unlocking some basic game knowledge.

    zZQHiGd.jpg

    Can I ask you if you think there is any logic behind this mechanic? In other words; SHOULD the stun from 30-40 mts be equal to the stun from Point Blank?
  • BNOC
    BNOC
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    OP, you've got PvE warriors who do 150k damage in a BG replying to you, this is the reason these "mechanics" exist, safely ignore them.

    The game is too hard for most people if they can't play it like it's Skyrim and the Devs seem more than happy to cater to that inability.

    Skill is scarce in this game now, numbers and "mechanics" like pets and 3 button full-hp burst rotations is all that matters for the most part.

    Over time, the vets leave and the F2p events just bring floods of noobs in who, as above, think it's Skyrim. I wouldn't hold your breathe.
    vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
    578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)

    vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
    569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I actually think total opposite. Maximum ranged stuns are more often than not just a CC with no follow up, granting me, the target, CC immunity to prevent anyone actually trying to have follow up to their CC (from closer range) from doing so.
  • Luede
    Luede
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    As previously stated I'd have no problem with max range stuns if it were cripplingly expensive to spam them. The people here defending spamming range stuns are just knee-jerking to the thought of it being harder for them to zerg solos from complete safety. If your first five Draining Shots or Fire Reaches get countered, you should be out of resources, not spamming another 17 of them until a target you're afraid to personally engage is stunned and zerged down.

    dont know how long u played this game, but it doesnt make sense to "spam" long ranged Cc. u have a Cc immunity after the first one. and between these skills maybe use some healing and engage?

    the first 100 hours in pvp can be very frustrating, but u have to adapt and learn, or u will always be the lamb.
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Luede wrote: »
    As previously stated I'd have no problem with max range stuns if it were cripplingly expensive to spam them. The people here defending spamming range stuns are just knee-jerking to the thought of it being harder for them to zerg solos from complete safety. If your first five Draining Shots or Fire Reaches get countered, you should be out of resources, not spamming another 17 of them until a target you're afraid to personally engage is stunned and zerged down.

    dont know how long u played this game, but it doesnt make sense to "spam" long ranged Cc. u have a Cc immunity after the first one. and between these skills maybe use some healing and engage?

    the first 100 hours in pvp can be very frustrating, but u have to adapt and learn, or u will always be the lamb.

    They spam it because the long range cc's are their spamable. Which basically means you get cc'd on cooldown always.

    Range has always had a advantage in pvp, the only disadvantage was reflects which have all basically been removed.



    Now if people are going to sit there and say there is no advantage from being a ranged caster vs being a melee character then I don't know what to say apart from kindly leave the thread.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • jaws343
    jaws343
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Luede wrote: »
    As previously stated I'd have no problem with max range stuns if it were cripplingly expensive to spam them. The people here defending spamming range stuns are just knee-jerking to the thought of it being harder for them to zerg solos from complete safety. If your first five Draining Shots or Fire Reaches get countered, you should be out of resources, not spamming another 17 of them until a target you're afraid to personally engage is stunned and zerged down.

    dont know how long u played this game, but it doesnt make sense to "spam" long ranged Cc. u have a Cc immunity after the first one. and between these skills maybe use some healing and engage?

    the first 100 hours in pvp can be very frustrating, but u have to adapt and learn, or u will always be the lamb.

    They spam it because the long range cc's are their spamable. Which basically means you get cc'd on cooldown always.

    Range has always had a advantage in pvp, the only disadvantage was reflects which have all basically been removed.



    Now if people are going to sit there and say there is no advantage from being a ranged caster vs being a melee character then I don't know what to say apart from kindly leave the thread.

    The only way CCs are spammable is if you have the master's staff. Otherwise, they are prohibitively costly and if you are spamming them, you aren't outputting any damage by the time the opponent has closed on you because you are out of resources.
  • Luede
    Luede
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Luede wrote: »
    As previously stated I'd have no problem with max range stuns if it were cripplingly expensive to spam them. The people here defending spamming range stuns are just knee-jerking to the thought of it being harder for them to zerg solos from complete safety. If your first five Draining Shots or Fire Reaches get countered, you should be out of resources, not spamming another 17 of them until a target you're afraid to personally engage is stunned and zerged down.

    dont know how long u played this game, but it doesnt make sense to "spam" long ranged Cc. u have a Cc immunity after the first one. and between these skills maybe use some healing and engage?

    the first 100 hours in pvp can be very frustrating, but u have to adapt and learn, or u will always be the lamb.

    They spam it because the long range cc's are their spamable. Which basically means you get cc'd on cooldown always.

    Range has always had a advantage in pvp, the only disadvantage was reflects which have all basically been removed.



    Now if people are going to sit there and say there is no advantage from being a ranged caster vs being a melee character then I don't know what to say apart from kindly leave the thread.

    dont see a problem here, draining shot is only a spammable if u will not use orther skills with 20% more damage which are cheaper (psijic order). If u are DW/2h dont fight in open terran and use los mechanics. and normal 2h/dw builds are heavy armor, no one will bring u down with a laughable DS / light attack spamming.

    so magicka has ranged too, stamina medium armor classes are fast and able to engage (and the most of them has stealth). and stamina with heavy armor und dw/2h build can outheal 2-3 of DS / light attack spammers the whole day.

    i only play pvp non cp in ESO, and this is the very first time i read something about a "long range Cc spam problem".

  • kookster
    kookster
    ✭✭✭✭
    Part of the reason why mag sorc is so stupidly strong is the fact that it can cast ALL of its main burst skills from max range. Including the stun. So I agree something should be done. What though? I dunno.
    Potato Pact - PC NA
  • xylena_lazarow
    xylena_lazarow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Luede wrote: »
    dont know how long u played this game, but it doesnt make sense to "spam" long ranged Cc. u have a Cc immunity after the first one. and between these skills maybe use some healing and engage?

    the first 100 hours in pvp can be very frustrating, but u have to adapt and learn, or u will always be the lamb.

    People spam 41m stuns on me because I am able to counter most of them, while also dealing with any number of closer range players chasing me. The players spamming ranged stuns on me have zero intent on directly engaging me, and are typically on walls or behind their allies, taking zero risk. They can't kill me themselves, but don't need to, as their only goal is to prevent me from disengaging from the zerg.

    I'm not asking to win 1vX, I'm asking for risk to match reward. Keep parroting "L2P noob" though, it makes it very obvious who here only gets a "kill" by spamming zero-risk ranged stuns on solos already being zerged.
    PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps
  • DocFrost72
    DocFrost72
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Luede wrote: »
    dont know how long u played this game, but it doesnt make sense to "spam" long ranged Cc. u have a Cc immunity after the first one. and between these skills maybe use some healing and engage?

    the first 100 hours in pvp can be very frustrating, but u have to adapt and learn, or u will always be the lamb.

    People spam 41m stuns on me because I am able to counter most of them, while also dealing with any number of closer range players chasing me. The players spamming ranged stuns on me have zero intent on directly engaging me, and are typically on walls or behind their allies, taking zero risk. They can't kill me themselves, but don't need to, as their only goal is to prevent me from disengaging from the zerg.

    I'm not asking to win 1vX, I'm asking for risk to match reward. Keep parroting "L2P noob" though, it makes it very obvious who here only gets a "kill" by spamming zero-risk ranged stuns on solos already being zerged.

    So how do we fix it?
  • bardx86
    bardx86
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    kookster wrote: »
    Part of the reason why mag sorc is so stupidly strong is the fact that it can cast ALL of its main burst skills from max range. Including the stun. So I agree something should be done. What though? I dunno.

    Dodge, block, shield, heal, cloak? Sorcs have to to stay at range they will drop to fast is not. There are plenty of things that can be done.
  • xylena_lazarow
    xylena_lazarow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    So how do we fix it?

    One option would be for max range stuns to be prohibitively expensive to spam. Draining Shot currently costs about 2k stamina, so even if I counter the first few, they simply spam it until it connects, barely putting a dent in their 30k stam pool with 2k regen. Now imagine if Draining Shot cost 6k stam, people would have to use it very carefully, or risk dumping their entire resource pool, leaving themselves very vulnerable, or at the very least unable to continue spamming 41m stuns from safety. If your first few 41m stuns are countered, you shouldn't get another 17 tries.

    The other option would be to return ranged stuns to the 20-25m range they had at launch, forcing people wielding them to risk actual PvP engagement, perhaps even requiring them to stop spamming their stun and use a gap closer or speed ability to get into stun range.
    PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps
  • DocFrost72
    DocFrost72
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    So how do we fix it?

    One option would be for max range stuns to be prohibitively expensive to spam-

    We already discussed this above. It will work 1v1 and won't matter 3v1 or more. Are you still talking about outnumbered fights?
    The other option would be to return ranged stuns to the 20-25m range they had at launch, forcing people wielding them to risk actual PvP engagement, perhaps even requiring them to stop spamming their stun and use a gap closer or speed ability to get into stun range.

    This would fix your specific issue but cause another one in its implementation. You'd then have a situation where instead of stuns, you're getting hit with damage. I'll wager you'd likely rather take the damage; but the problem was a pesky no risk assault from 41 meters away (it's never that far or you'd step one foot back, but I'm humoring this because I don't think you're wrong or without merit in your argument). When you're eating 5-7k snipes while fighting melee (which was your example), that will be the next thing you'll need to deal with. And again, the heart of the issue (their effectiveness from safety) remains. They're still going to be making your life infinitely miserable from a spot you can't reach.

    That's not even discussing the reality that 25 meters is still outside gap closer range, can still Xv1 you, and can still stun spam.
    Edited by DocFrost72 on July 1, 2019 5:23PM
  • xylena_lazarow
    xylena_lazarow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    @DocFrost72 can you give a better suggestion then?
    PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps
  • DocFrost72
    DocFrost72
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    @DocFrost72 can you give a better suggestion then?

    Not off the top of my head, certainly not. I can try though. I'm sure if we tackle it slowly and methodically we can come up with something. Ideally something that fixes the issue without collateral and actually addresses the root problem.

    It may be worth looking into abilities that block stuns that aren't tied to heavy armor, for instance.
  • ZOS_JesC
    ZOS_JesC
    admin
    Greetings, we've removed several comments that were nonconstructive and baiting in nature. This is a friendly reminder to make sure comments remain civil and appropriate for the ESO forums.
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
    Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site
    Staff Post
  • Luede
    Luede
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Luede wrote: »
    dont know how long u played this game, but it doesnt make sense to "spam" long ranged Cc. u have a Cc immunity after the first one. and between these skills maybe use some healing and engage?

    the first 100 hours in pvp can be very frustrating, but u have to adapt and learn, or u will always be the lamb.

    People spam 41m stuns on me because I am able to counter most of them, while also dealing with any number of closer range players chasing me. The players spamming ranged stuns on me have zero intent on directly engaging me, and are typically on walls or behind their allies, taking zero risk. They can't kill me themselves, but don't need to, as their only goal is to prevent me from disengaging from the zerg.

    I'm not asking to win 1vX, I'm asking for risk to match reward. Keep parroting "L2P noob" though, it makes it very obvious who here only gets a "kill" by spamming zero-risk ranged stuns on solos already being zerged.

    so u complain because u get a free cc immunity with a 2 sec low dmg ability? what du u prefere, get a 4 sec fear and a long ranged snipe instead?
  • killimandrosb16_ESO
    killimandrosb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    All cc abilities ought to come with a hefty diminishing return. If you get cc's with the same ability 10 times (from 10 different players, or the same doesnt matter) the first one and the tenth one should NOT have the same effect. Let the first one hit, then force the player to use the brain and either use another cc, a snare or any other ability. Yes you get a short cc immunity if you dodge (cost stamina) or break free (same) from the cc, but it doesnt matter if youre being constantly cc'd. You CANT break free 10 times, but why should you have to? The tenth time shouldnt affect you at all, as long as you are in combat.
  • jaws343
    jaws343
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    All cc abilities ought to come with a hefty diminishing return. If you get cc's with the same ability 10 times (from 10 different players, or the same doesnt matter) the first one and the tenth one should NOT have the same effect. Let the first one hit, then force the player to use the brain and either use another cc, a snare or any other ability. Yes you get a short cc immunity if you dodge (cost stamina) or break free (same) from the cc, but it doesnt matter if youre being constantly cc'd. You CANT break free 10 times, but why should you have to? The tenth time shouldnt affect you at all, as long as you are in combat.

    Whether they attack you with 5 or 10 CCs, there is still a period of immunity. So no, you cannot be continuously CCd and continuous CCs do not have the same effects if they can't always CC you. If it is such a problem, maybe attack them during your CC immunity, or do any number of defensive actions available to you during that time.
  • killimandrosb16_ESO
    killimandrosb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    jaws343 wrote: »
    All cc abilities ought to come with a hefty diminishing return. If you get cc's with the same ability 10 times (from 10 different players, or the same doesnt matter) the first one and the tenth one should NOT have the same effect. Let the first one hit, then force the player to use the brain and either use another cc, a snare or any other ability. Yes you get a short cc immunity if you dodge (cost stamina) or break free (same) from the cc, but it doesnt matter if youre being constantly cc'd. You CANT break free 10 times, but why should you have to? The tenth time shouldnt affect you at all, as long as you are in combat.

    Whether they attack you with 5 or 10 CCs, there is still a period of immunity. So no, you cannot be continuously CCd and continuous CCs do not have the same effects if they can't always CC you. If it is such a problem, maybe attack them during your CC immunity, or do any number of defensive actions available to you during that time.

    Wheres the problem with a diminishing returns? You can break free or dodge then youll have a short cc immunity period, but IF youve ever fought against more than yourself or your group you know you will be cc'd again, most likely by the same 2-3 abilities immediately after your cc immunity period is over. If there was a diminishing return on cc skills, it would be far more rewarding to try to chase the ranged cc spammers instead of turtling up, use Heavy Armour and run for the closest LoS shelter, creating the stale meta we have now. You cant catch ranged cc groups so youll have to survive the burst which will come after the CC and find shelter.With a diminishing return on CC, more players would use different gear, medium armour would be more viable and different skill/playstyles would be viable again. Instead we now have two archetypes; the ranged cc spammers and the turtles with sword and board blocking them. This again is part of the big lag problems you find in CP campaigns, where abilities will be spammed endlessly
  • jaws343
    jaws343
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    jaws343 wrote: »
    All cc abilities ought to come with a hefty diminishing return. If you get cc's with the same ability 10 times (from 10 different players, or the same doesnt matter) the first one and the tenth one should NOT have the same effect. Let the first one hit, then force the player to use the brain and either use another cc, a snare or any other ability. Yes you get a short cc immunity if you dodge (cost stamina) or break free (same) from the cc, but it doesnt matter if youre being constantly cc'd. You CANT break free 10 times, but why should you have to? The tenth time shouldnt affect you at all, as long as you are in combat.

    Whether they attack you with 5 or 10 CCs, there is still a period of immunity. So no, you cannot be continuously CCd and continuous CCs do not have the same effects if they can't always CC you. If it is such a problem, maybe attack them during your CC immunity, or do any number of defensive actions available to you during that time.

    Wheres the problem with a diminishing returns? You can break free or dodge then youll have a short cc immunity period, but IF youve ever fought against more than yourself or your group you know you will be cc'd again, most likely by the same 2-3 abilities immediately after your cc immunity period is over. If there was a diminishing return on cc skills, it would be far more rewarding to try to chase the ranged cc spammers instead of turtling up, use Heavy Armour and run for the closest LoS shelter, creating the stale meta we have now. You cant catch ranged cc groups so youll have to survive the burst which will come after the CC and find shelter.With a diminishing return on CC, more players would use different gear, medium armour would be more viable and different skill/playstyles would be viable again. Instead we now have two archetypes; the ranged cc spammers and the turtles with sword and board blocking them. This again is part of the big lag problems you find in CP campaigns, where abilities will be spammed endlessly

    Stop trying to 1vX groups that are better than you??
  • jaws343
    jaws343
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    jaws343 wrote: »
    All cc abilities ought to come with a hefty diminishing return. If you get cc's with the same ability 10 times (from 10 different players, or the same doesnt matter) the first one and the tenth one should NOT have the same effect. Let the first one hit, then force the player to use the brain and either use another cc, a snare or any other ability. Yes you get a short cc immunity if you dodge (cost stamina) or break free (same) from the cc, but it doesnt matter if youre being constantly cc'd. You CANT break free 10 times, but why should you have to? The tenth time shouldnt affect you at all, as long as you are in combat.

    Whether they attack you with 5 or 10 CCs, there is still a period of immunity. So no, you cannot be continuously CCd and continuous CCs do not have the same effects if they can't always CC you. If it is such a problem, maybe attack them during your CC immunity, or do any number of defensive actions available to you during that time.

    Wheres the problem with a diminishing returns? You can break free or dodge then youll have a short cc immunity period, but IF youve ever fought against more than yourself or your group you know you will be cc'd again, most likely by the same 2-3 abilities immediately after your cc immunity period is over. If there was a diminishing return on cc skills, it would be far more rewarding to try to chase the ranged cc spammers instead of turtling up, use Heavy Armour and run for the closest LoS shelter, creating the stale meta we have now. You cant catch ranged cc groups so youll have to survive the burst which will come after the CC and find shelter.With a diminishing return on CC, more players would use different gear, medium armour would be more viable and different skill/playstyles would be viable again. Instead we now have two archetypes; the ranged cc spammers and the turtles with sword and board blocking them. This again is part of the big lag problems you find in CP campaigns, where abilities will be spammed endlessly

    Plus, if a group of players is spamming reach at you, they are just wasting resources unless they all have the masters staff. That same group of players would be even harder to counter if they were all spamming force pulse. Because they would all be doing a ton of damage and you would either need to block and burn stamina or dodge roll and burn stamina, which puts you into the same situation you are in with the CCs, but at least the CC spam isn't doing much damage and is draining resources of your opponents. As someone who runs force pulse/crushing shock instead of reach, I can guarantee more people get lit up by that than by a reach combo, because the damage of reach is pitiful and the skill is easy to dodge and hard to maintain spamming.

    A diminishing return on CCs would just make them useless if a player dodges or otherwise counters the ability with CC immunity. Which is really the only agenda you have considering your early post, which doesn't really make anything you say on the issue hold any value.
  • killimandrosb16_ESO
    killimandrosb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    A diminishing returns on cc only means you can not spam the same cc ability every time the cc immunity is over. You want your crutch. Fine, but be honest about it. And dont complain about lag and the HA meta. I mani a magsorc and I know how painfully easy it is to pinpoint 2-3 melee classes wherever I want them. The only way they can get away is by turtling up. Thats due to no diminishing returns on cc. Onmy melee classes I will never die to your force pulse/crushing shock unless Ive been cc'd firstplace. A diminishing returns would give the melee class much better options when fighting a ranged dps, in particular a magsorc. Lets talk straight here; the bow CC is at best irritating, its the cc the magsorc has which is WHY we need a diminishing returns on cc abilities. With my magsorc I can pinpoint anyone down and then burst them. If they dodge/break free Ill just do it again. I have absolutely no resource problems at all, while the dodge/break free makes sure my melee target WILL be dried up, unless he reaches that LoS shelter, or a tower, I can just repeat the sequence until hes dead. Theres no stamina or abilities left to damage ME when the cc x 2 is over, because I will cc him at least twice if I stand still until he reaches me (then I streak away), then kill him again. Ill stand by my initial comment on this section; if you advocate how ranged cc shouldnt be touched its because you need that crutch. I can still see absolutely no reason as to why there shouldnt be a diminishing return on cc abilities. There ARE players spamming clutch curse and wrath, I just tested it and the reward is far too good. If there was a diminishing return they would have to pick between all the other cc available to them, they would have to think between the global cooldowns on their spammable. All my points still stand I do not find anything in what you are writing which makes them unvalid, apart from highlighting how far ranged classes are willing to degrade themself into whataboutism and pure BS arguments.
    Diminishing returns on ranged CC NOW. And make it a hard one. 50% less impact on the second time same cc ability hits the same target until target is out of combat. Then wed actually reduce a LOT of the lag.
  • jaws343
    jaws343
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    A diminishing returns on cc only means you can not spam the same cc ability every time the cc immunity is over. You want your crutch. Fine, but be honest about it. And dont complain about lag and the HA meta. I mani a magsorc and I know how painfully easy it is to pinpoint 2-3 melee classes wherever I want them. The only way they can get away is by turtling up. Thats due to no diminishing returns on cc. Onmy melee classes I will never die to your force pulse/crushing shock unless Ive been cc'd firstplace. A diminishing returns would give the melee class much better options when fighting a ranged dps, in particular a magsorc. Lets talk straight here; the bow CC is at best irritating, its the cc the magsorc has which is WHY we need a diminishing returns on cc abilities. With my magsorc I can pinpoint anyone down and then burst them. If they dodge/break free Ill just do it again. I have absolutely no resource problems at all, while the dodge/break free makes sure my melee target WILL be dried up, unless he reaches that LoS shelter, or a tower, I can just repeat the sequence until hes dead. Theres no stamina or abilities left to damage ME when the cc x 2 is over, because I will cc him at least twice if I stand still until he reaches me (then I streak away), then kill him again. Ill stand by my initial comment on this section; if you advocate how ranged cc shouldnt be touched its because you need that crutch. I can still see absolutely no reason as to why there shouldnt be a diminishing return on cc abilities. There ARE players spamming clutch curse and wrath, I just tested it and the reward is far too good. If there was a diminishing return they would have to pick between all the other cc available to them, they would have to think between the global cooldowns on their spammable. All my points still stand I do not find anything in what you are writing which makes them unvalid, apart from highlighting how far ranged classes are willing to degrade themself into whataboutism and pure BS arguments.
    Diminishing returns on ranged CC NOW. And make it a hard one. 50% less impact on the second time same cc ability hits the same target until target is out of combat. Then wed actually reduce a LOT of the lag.

    The only magsorc CC is rune cage.

    Now if you are talking about Reach, a weapon skill CC that is available to all classes, a mag sorc has to give up an actual spammable to even fit that skill on a bar. But I can now see that all this is is a nerf sorc complaint disguised as nerf CC.

    And... I wasn't complaining about lag or HA, you actually were in your previous response...

    Lol at Melee classes needing better options. Just lol.
  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    The problem isn't that they are spammed, or that they do damage. The problem is that they exist beyond the range of gap closers. CC less gap closers leave you so miserably exposed that you're likely to be hit with a ranged stun anyways, but at least you'll make it to your target by the time you break free.

    There shouldn't be a single ability that outreaches gap closers.
    0331
    0602
  • jaws343
    jaws343
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    usmcjdking wrote: »
    The problem isn't that they are spammed, or that they do damage. The problem is that they exist beyond the range of gap closers. CC less gap closers leave you so miserably exposed that you're likely to be hit with a ranged stun anyways, but at least you'll make it to your target by the time you break free.

    There shouldn't be a single ability that outreaches gap closers.

    Not all classes are built to fight in melee range. Kind of the point of having ranged classes and abilities. If you cannot keep people out of gap closer range and also cannot hit them out of that range, kind of no point to have ranged classes to begin with. Get better at positioning and you won't be out of gap closer range.
Sign In or Register to comment.