FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Completely off target. Yes, I picked up the game due to a special sale last Thanksgiving (on the PS4). That should not mean I am condemned to a substandard game forever if I don't decide to buy again (with LOTS of time and leveling) on the PC. That is idiotic.

It's not idiotic, it's realistic. And it's something you probably knew before making the choice of playing ESO on console. Unless you not a gamer informed about the gaming markets (not condemning you for that, I'm miles away from the gaming scene myself), you should know that an Elder Scrolls Game relies heavily on addons, and that consoles don't support addons for ESO.
But regardless, now you have three choices :
- carry on playing on console and live with it.
- Switch to PC (waiting will make it even more painful)
- Write demands to ZOS/Sony/Microsoft.

What is NOT a choice is to attack and blame us PC players, because it's not our fault and there's nothing we can do for you in that regard. What is not a choice either is to advocate for a GAH when what you truly want (addon functionalities in all areas of the game) goes far beyond that.

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Don't pawn off complaints on others just because you get to exploit what we currently have.

Did I correctly read EXPLOIT ?
So you want the same things we have (and call it a legit request), yet you call us exploiters ? And expect ZOS listens to you ? And that we side with you ?
You should rethink your communication. In its current state, I'm not really surprised that it doesn't work.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Karivaa wrote: »

No. Guild traders are a part of the game. Many people play the game to run them. It is super easy now for us to search the readers for items which has made it much easier for us on console.

If you play a MMORPG just for trader guilds.......... What are you exactly doing with money if your not running content? And why do you need virtual in game money of currency if you are not putting it back through buying items to use in game?

You're back ? Welcome back then... :-)

No I don't play JUST for trading. But trading is what keeps me logging in between new content releases. To be more precise, it's not the trading itself, it's the social interactions involved with trading - which would be absent if there was a GAH. To keep things short : trading - and trading guilds make me find friends. That's nice.
And what I do with the gold is mostly irrelevant. It's just a milestone. Like achievement hunters pursue achievements that bring them nothing. It's just a measurement.
It's become a little bit more meaningful since we can buy crowns for gold via the gifting system, but even before that, I enjoyed trading just for the sake of it.

That's fair, but you say trader guilds give you social interaction with people basically, it helps you find friends. But my rebuttal to that us if you add a global auction house, why can't trading guilds just become guilds that are social?

I can tell you now I barely talk to anyone in my trading guild, I don't run content with them, I don't call them my guild buddies nor do I give them guild discounts. This is because it is a guild (I have to pay to be in) to sell items. There is a goal for me to be in it. But if they removed the need for me to use a guild spot I wouldn't be I. This guild. I get some people are close in their trader guild, but that makes you a social guild too.

A perfect example of this was in my trading guild someone mentioned they are taking a break, and people's response wasn't bye we will miss you. It was "let me get your mats since you won't need them". It was multiple people saying the same thing in different ways. If a person in my social guild was taking a break I would ask him if everything is okay, you know check up on them.

I play on console, it might be different somewhere else, but every trading guild I've been in is just like my example.

The current system on console hurts a lot of new players and casual ones as well. They can't slowly build up funds like in other MMOs due to them having to pay to be in a guild and then it creates this constant need for them to sell stuff because they feel obligated to since they invested money into it. It now has become a chore rather than someone casually playing the game to have fun.

People talk about not being able to corner a market with the current system (but on console it is happening by the traders and fake accounts that run 5 different guilds always owning the same exact area every week creating their own monopolies because in that area no one can bid against them.)

Or what about the people that are buying as many traders as possible and selling the spots for crazy money manipulating the system? Dont say it doesn't exist because there have even been screenshots on this forum of this person trying to sell spots for crazy amounts of gold and admitted he buys them for a lot less.

So I get you have fun with the trading system, but a lot don't for reasons listed above. To really make money someone needs to basically join one of the mafia guilds because the little guilds get bad spots not many people check. As stated in this thread earlier someone said "just go to mournhold stuff is usually there". It is there with a jacked up price because 1 person has 5 different trading guilds there using fake accounts as the guild managers, meaning they can jack up the prices because everyone knows the item will get there.

Unfortunately this system shows exactly why you can't let a group of toxic players control the ability of someone being able to sell items.

Turelus wrote: »

No, I like the regional based trading system and would like it to remain. However I do think the current system needs some work to both make the bidding and searching aspects better for everyone.

A public API of all items listed in the store so we can make third party sites would be a big help, something akin to what CCP does with EVE Online.

Example of a third party site using market data from EVE: https://eve-marketdata.com/

I can respect the fact that you like the current economic setup. But why exactly do you feel there should be an outside source for things taking place in game? Why is this the acceptable state of the game? Should players not be able to log in to the game and engage with information compiled within the game, from within the game?

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

That's fair, but you say trader guilds give you social interaction with people basically, it helps you find friends. But my rebuttal to that us if you add a global auction house, why can't trading guilds just become guilds that are social?

I have answered that one several times already and I'm quite sure you've read, but you keep ignoring people's answers and repeating the same things and questions over and over.
But for the sake of other readers, I'll answer once more : a guild that's just social for the sake of being social doesn't survive. You don't put a group of people in a room with no particular goal and tell them to "just be social". You socialize about and around some activity and goals. Without that, people will talk about the usual weather, their lives IRL, their mother-in-law, their dog being sick and the like.
Traditional social guilds socialize around playing together, which means questing together or dungeoning together. I'm sick of dungeoning and I quest strictly solo. Trading guilds allow for more varied interactions (so many items in the game !) and have a lot of funraising or fundraising (or both :-) ) activities. So no, a trading guild cannot transform into "simply a social guild". Of course, if you've never even paid attention to what was going on in your trading guild, you cannot know. And for the guildie who took a break, nothing prevented from responding nicely. But you didn't, just because it was a trading guild ? That's on you. Besides, you don't know how many people asked nicely in private. You get what you seed, and if, as you say, you never bothered talking to anyone in your trading guilds, it's not surprising you didn't find them socially warm.

As to the rest of your post, if reads like everything YOU experience is the truth of the game, shared by everyone, and everything I experience is just me alone.
Let me remind you that the GAH/traders debate has been going on for five years, that the split in opinions has always been roughly 50/50, so you just should stop playing the "majority of victims" card here. There's nothing like a majority on that matter, and as a consequence, I'd suggest to anyone who's unhappy with the trader system to... live with it.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

No, I like the regional based trading system and would like it to remain. However I do think the current system needs some work to both make the bidding and searching aspects better for everyone.

A public API of all items listed in the store so we can make third party sites would be a big help, something akin to what CCP does with EVE Online.

Example of a third party site using market data from EVE: https://eve-marketdata.com/

I can respect the fact that you like the current economic setup. But why exactly do you feel there should be an outside source for things taking place in game? Why is this the acceptable state of the game? Should players not be able to log in to the game and engage with information compiled within the game, from within the game?

How about seeing this the other way around.

What the hell do you think the question was for?

There's a game that run on several platforms, and someone comes up with an enhancement that works only for one of those platforms for whatever reasons.
- Should the people who benefit from the enhancement just not use it because "not everyone can have it" ?
- Should the developers of the game feel obliged to include it in the base game so that everyone has it ? If they do so, they'd have to mimick and integrate every single 3rd party initiative into their own game, regardless of their own design choices ?
- Should the 3rd party creator just not do it for one platform if he can't do it for all ???

This is just absolute nonsense that doesnt actually answer the questions, that by the way, wasnt directed towards you. Youve responded 3 times since my post. Is this one of those Chewbacca Defense things? Just talk a lot and say a lot of incoherent nonsense and hope people just shut up and not discuss things?

ZeroXFF wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

No. Just no....
I won't even go into the reasons of WHY it wont work. It is plainly documented from the 100's of other threads, which also show the majority say No. And so has ZoS, many times, that NO they are not re-writing the whole base game to include a AH. But, I will post something relevant......
Huzzah!!!!

It's also plainly documented why all those reasons are wrong. But you prefer to remain a pigeon in a chess game.

Well, since you have no idea what "reasons" I was referring to, not sure how you "know" they are wrong.
And not sure of "pigeon in chess game" reference is, but oh well, made me laugh so thank you!

Now let's address a few misconceptions and realities...

1. Trade Guild GM's are NOT scam artists and are NOT lining their pockets with guild gold!
Yes, there are bad apples everywhere, but on a whole this is not true. Being a GM of a trade guild of ANY size is hard work, and most GM's use more personal gold on the guild than anyone. I myself have given 10's of millions supporting my guilds.

2. Guilds Don't Get Rich from Sales or Tax's.... Guilds only get 3.5% back on each sale, all other tax's, tabbard sales, listings fees, etc are a gold sink. The trader system is the biggest gold sink in the game and a AH won't meet his kind of sink, which is necessary for the economy.

3. Corner The Market/ Monopoly....An AH system it is absolutely "possible" to corner the market on an item. ALL listings are right there, few billion in gold, you own it. In ESO, it is "Impossible" to corner an item market.
You would have to travel to 200+ kiosks, plus load screen time, to buy all of an item to corner the market. But if you did you can only sell it in 5 guilds or zone, so it's still un-achievable.

4. But WoW Did It..... In Wow, you have copies of game in "shards" or "Servers". There are what, 100, 200 shards in WoW, each with their own copy of game. ESO is a single server. There are "zone instances" but the core game, i.e. traders are still the same. To use the Min numbers, 200 kiosks X 500 members per guild X 30 items each = 300,000 items loading in a UI at once. Think you have lag now? Simple put, ESO is not WoW and MegaServer is not WoW server.

5. I Have To Search Hours to Find Item....8 out of 10 times I can go to Mournhold and find anything I am looking for. Can I get it cheaper somewhere else? Maybe? It my time to look worth the gold I'd save? RL style decision.One of the things that make this system refreshing. A AH you would have to travel to auctioneer too, so time thing not a big issue.

TL:DR... It would cost ZoS too much to rewite the base game, the Megaserver is not like WoW, and the player base has shown for almost 6 years they like the system and ZoS has stated, it is here to stay.

My 2 Drakes....
Huzzah!

Additional points you haven't considered:
6. High cost of entry into the market turns off players from the game. As many have pointed out, a lot of players left because of it. The current system hurts ZOS' bottomline.

What are you talking about ? New players have nothing to sell anyway. And when they do - paying a weekly tax is not a problem at all. Also there is alliances with guilds for newbies (no taxes) with traders in okayish spots.

I have more than 1k hours in game and havent sold a single thing yet. Because i have nothing to sell.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

That's fair, but you say trader guilds give you social interaction with people basically, it helps you find friends. But my rebuttal to that us if you add a global auction house, why can't trading guilds just become guilds that are social?

I have answered that one several times already and I'm quite sure you've read, but you keep ignoring people's answers and repeating the same things and questions over and over.
But for the sake of other readers, I'll answer once more : a guild that's just social for the sake of being social doesn't survive. You don't put a group of people in a room with no particular goal and tell them to "just be social". You socialize about and around some activity and goals. Without that, people will talk about the usual weather, their lives IRL, their mother-in-law, their dog being sick and the like.
Traditional social guilds socialize around playing together, which means questing together or dungeoning together. I'm sick of dungeoning and I quest strictly solo. Trading guilds allow for more varied interactions (so many items in the game !) and have a lot of funraising or fundraising (or both :-) ) activities. So no, a trading guild cannot transform into "simply a social guild". Of course, if you've never even paid attention to what was going on in your trading guild, you cannot know. And for the guildie who took a break, nothing prevented from responding nicely. But you didn't, just because it was a trading guild ? That's on you. Besides, you don't know how many people asked nicely in private. You get what you seed, and if, as you say, you never bothered talking to anyone in your trading guilds, it's not surprising you didn't find them socially warm.

As to the rest of your post, if reads like everything YOU experience is the truth of the game, shared by everyone, and everything I experience is just me alone.
Let me remind you that the GAH/traders debate has been going on for five years, that the split in opinions has always been roughly 50/50, so you just should stop playing the "majority of victims" card here. There's nothing like a majority on that matter, and as a consequence, I'd suggest to anyone who's unhappy with the trader system to... live with it.

Lol oh now I remember you, that's right you are the person that plays woe is me my add-ons aren't working and PC players are a way of life. You clearly have a issue irl or something to literally think a game is entitled to be better on a PC. I hope your add-ons never get turned back on I also can not understand where you get your numbers from, (a PC cost less than a console does lolololol. So to update your graphic card alone is what? Like 150-upwards of 1000 depending on quality you want. Keep in mind that is just one piece of a computer, you still have to add more in on top of just that one piece.) So for being such a PC expert you surely are not showing it off there and knowing console players spend 400 on PS4 and it lasted 4-5 years before needed to be upgraded. How often do you update a graphics card? Just saying PS4 is cheaper but you clearly want to toot your own horn to say you as a PC gamer is better than a console player.

Hmmmm didn't ESO launch as a subscription game on PC only? That didn't do so well, so they dropped the subscription model and went to console? 😉 Just shows maybe you wouldn't even be playing ESO right now if console players didn't purchase the game.

You can argue all you want with me, but at the end of the day you think you are entitled but in reality you are nothing special. You keep comparing this to real life stuff, bro it is a video game people play to get away from what is going on. People play games to have fun. People play games maybe for a challenge.

I can't take anything of what you say seriously at all. If PC gaming is so amazing, why aren't all the huge major sports online tournaments hosted by PC? Do they even make them on PC anymore? If consoles were such a bad system why did PlayStation consoles alone make around 100million of sales? Clearly it is on the rise, and maybe you are scared it is getting stronger each release and might slowly dwindle PC players? I don't know man but you clearly are stuck in a mindset where you truly believe playing on PC makes you a superior gamer, when in fact it does nothing for you in the slightest.

As far as auction house goes, anyone can say trader system is amazing, if it was so amazing though there wouldn't be people like you crying about your entitled add-ons. If it was amazing people wouldn't complain about it constantly. You say that I speak from what others have said, but I've seen it first hand. I play on console and see what happens. Ive seen my trader not get a spot because of losing a bid, then magically get a spot in a very busy area that was full just the night before. How did they get that you ask? Hmmmm idk it couldn't have anything to do with a corrupt playerbase now could it? Players manipulating a system could never happen could it? You can say it doesn't happen on PC, you guys have add-ons to help you find places (basically a global auction house you are against......) But the reason this continues to happen in major cities is because those are the cities people check first on console. Meaning the small guild trying to trade now gets stuck in the middle of no where and has trouble selling items. But hey it's fair because they got a trader no one will look at! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

NotSuzyHomemaker wrote: »

idk wrote: »

1. The system works addons, though can still use some improvements, mostly on the UI front. Just because people on PC have gotten used to the addons does not mean it does not work without them.
2. My reply was spot on with you previous comment it was in reply to. You just don't like because it was so accurate.

Yeah no.

You can put your fingers in your ears and chant "I can't hear you" as much as you want so that you can insist someone is saying something they're not but that doesn't make it fact. It only makes you look like you have reading comprehension issues.

But whatever. There's no point in having any type of conversation with someone who is being dishonest at best.

Disagreeing with plain and simple facts and calling the person dishonest at best is an interesting tactic. You can disagree, and it is fine to have differing opinions but creating the false narrative you have to twist the story is rather transparent.

The "plain and simple facts" are there is now a global market among all guild traders thanks to these addons.

And the plain and simple fact it worked before the addons and it works on console who has never had the addons. That is the inconvenient truth to the who GAH argument. Plain and simple. Cheerio

Well I guess "worked" is a subjective term. The horse and buggy worked too - but it probably wouldn't be your best option to take a wagon train to visit Canada.

So maybe I'll revise my comment a bit. It didn't work to the satisfaction of the vast player majority - because nearly all of them have opted to either use these add ons or rely on them when navigating what is now undeniably a global market. Nor have I seen a single person in this thread advocate removing these addons from the game either - which is odd considering the majority in this thread is supposedly opposed to a global market/auction house. So this whole argument against auction houses makes very little sense to me. But maybe I just missed seeing the huge backlash and outrage over these addons.

Edziu wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO

- so if you want to stay in trade guild you actually even have to play in way to get something for trade to not be kicked from guild
- there are players who just get something wroth to sell sometimes and thus they are forced to join to trade guild to be able to sell this without more problems
- as it was already sayed ofc most of PC users have addons for this and when they are using them..then why they are still against GAH? thi sis real nonsense as saying GAH is no needed while using addons in game which are making this system more closer to GAH than current
- console player always had worse in ESO in any way and even not viability to use addons doesnt explain this as currently players with addons also want things to QoL which are mainly asking console players - this is showing how not good system is for player even if they have access to addons improving this

- point 1 : No, you don't. First, because if you have nothing to sell, you can always compensate your lack of sales with a small fee. And secondly, because whatever you play in the game, you always collect something worth selling along the way. And thirdly, because many trading guilds do not have sales requirements. And I'll also add, that as long as you're a bit social, make yourself known and participate a bit a the guild's life, you won't get kicked no matter how much you sell.

- Point 2 : using addons doesnt equate to wanting a GAH. Why should it ? Addons do NOT mimick GAH. Not at all. You're imagining things here.

- Point 3 : Console players get the worse version of the game - agreed. But that's their choice, they should deal with this with ZOS, Sony and Microsoft, and a GAH is not going to change that. It's not the fault of PC players nor of addon authors, and I certainly will not agree to a GAH solely for the sake of console players.

- Point 3(b) : what do you know about what PC players want or don't want ? Again some imaginary statistics or heard-of rumours carefully picked to suit your agenda ?

Sorry if I sound aggressive, but as a matter of fact, I consider you as intellectually dishonest. Especially since you're repeating the same things over and over and over while genuine, sensible and structured answers have been provided all over these threads - and I'm pretty sure you've read and understood them.

same are repeating everyone agains GAH, nothing new but with mostly less arguments also

so what if I want to sell item for fair price without paying any fee to stay in guild? sorry but this is nonsense if we want to sell anything in fair price
I was not so long ago in 1 not huge guild in vvardenfel, I was selling without problem many "trash" items for my average mm which have data mostly from 2 bigger craglorn guilds, now Im in other guild in worse place than vvardnefell and for good 1 week I have sold only few these "trash" items in same price

so if you are in guild which dnt need fee to stay in them without regular sales you are handicapped by *** place it is in so you probably wont never sell items for fair price like in top spots, you need to significant lower your prices if you want to sell an item here without waing weeks or months for this


addons doesnt make GAH here as its not possible but they are making system much closer to GAH so to people which are using this definitely basic guild trader system is overshadowed by concepts of GAH


and waht I know about pc players about this?
so I know dozens or so and I have meed hundrets of players with similiar thinking - guild trader system is bad, flawled and GAH would be more efficient, comfortable etc
just literally every player which I meet was in this opinion - so from pvp, pve etc and even some just casuals for light content

I havnt meet a single person in game who would be happy from current trade system
I dont mention here rp's as I never needed and had willing to talk to them, just nothing special, just noneed, I was minding my own buisnes and so they also

as for console player..welp..we same many many many threads with their pain and this isnt also their fault as they just prefer to play on console isntead of pc and because they more like to play on console now they need to be hurted more by game creators? even when this game before release was specjally designing to be playable not only on pc but on other platforms like console...I dont see to much sense here
game since beggining was designed to be playable on many platforms but yet if you are not on PC at all you still have many drawback of not playing on PC

Actualy, if you go back to 2010 - 2012 news releases, the game was PC focused. There is a reason console release was over a year after the first PC launch. And consoles were delayed as the UI systems didn't work for consoles and had to be re done.
Also Sony and Microsoft are in charge of what ZoS can do, so it is they who don't allow add ons.
Just my 2 drakes...

Tigerseye wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Why on earth would I be on-board with something that will actively make my time in ESO less enjoyable?

If you realised, for example, that you enjoyed it slightly less than other people despised it and therefore, for the good of the game you play, it might be better to make the majority happy/less likely to leave?

The majority of the playerbase, as a whole, I mean.

Not just the relatively few, relatively hardcore (and/or trolling) players who tend to frequent games forums.

Not saying you have to feel that way, by the way; just suggesting why someone magnanimous might.

Absolutely. But there, also, is the wasp in the jam. Has it ever been conclusively proven that this is what the majority on all platforms wants?

The moment ZOS does a game-wide poll and shares results that show that a majority of respondents favour a global auction house then I will give up the fight.

Until that time we are left with polls like these, and the ability to talk from our own experience. And that is what I’ve been doing so far.