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Would you like a unified auction house instead of the current trading system?
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Yes.I'm always wary of discontinuing established practices that, for the most part, work.
I think, though, that you're starting with a false pretense, that the systems works. It doesn't. And it doesn't just not work on console, it doesn't work on PC, either. That's why on PC so many are using a combination of addons and outside websites to find items. Because the system doesn't work. And no, working because you can get an addon to add functionality that wasn't included is not an example of it working.
And on console it simply doesn't work. Console cannot use addons. There is no auction house scanning individual guild stores to combine it in a searchable, online database.
So yeah, there's risk with making changes. And I realize people are seriously terrified of change. But if a system isn't working then fear of change should not be the main reason why change doesn't happen.
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Yes.Goregrinder wrote: »The numbers don't lie, so stop making these posts.
numbes maybe no but % very often as very often specific % of people dont have access to vote or even dont know about this
you can say from % in this thread more people dont want global AH
from known to me many people in game I know 100% of them would go for global AH than current system
It would be interesting to see how the yes/no votes split between PC and console. I see people voting "no" who don't seem aware that console exists and/or that console cannot use addons. And in those cases, it's all "mememememe" with zero thought about how this plays out elsewhere.4 -
Yes.
Yes, it is obtuse and selfish to advocate completely changing part of the game players have enjoyed for more than 5 years. To many players, the trading game is what they enjoy the most. This gameplay would be obliterated by the introduction of an AH.NotSuzyHomemaker wrote: »And that doesn't even address how this works on consoles where there are no addons. But sure Dexter, people are "obtuse and selfish" to point out that it's not working for them.
Taking away the current trading game would be exactly the same as removing combat from the game.
There's no approach that's objectively better. It's preference. However, ESO was developed, sold and played for more than 5 years with a deep trading system.
The players who enjoy ESO trading as it is are ethically entitled to the experience that was sold to them. You are not entitled to an experience that has never existed in ESO.
Some players. Which was part of my point. Because while you're busy calling people names you may want to check that you're not displaying the same traits yourself (spoiler alert: you were).
So according to you, if it works for one of 3 platforms, that's good enough and how dare anyone even say that it doesn't work for them let alone want it to be changed.
But thanks for letting us know that you are unable to consider the subject any deeper than insults. Noted and rejected.3 -
Yes.Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »So OP.....the votes are in....read them and weep if you must. Are you about ready to close the thread now? Or are you going to keep making these posts until everyone votes for the answer you want?
I don't know of a function to close the thread but it's still very early in the voting process compared to the threads age.
Ah so you're holding out for some more "yes" votes.....yeah good luck with that bud.
Maybe some more console players. The 'no' vote right now seems pretty heavily weighted towards PC/MAC players. I looked at the first 20 votes (the only ones that show) and of those 20.....17 are PC/MAC players.
And yeah, part of this conversation absolutely needs to be about the different needs of the different platforms. I get that a lot of PC/MAC players are content since they get addons. I wish there was some acknowledgment that 2/3 of the platforms don't get those addons.2 -
Yes.stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »How about you stop beating this dead horse and instead ask for ZOS to index their database once a day to create the same kind of global overview for console players as what PC/Mac players have through the commendable third party effort of TTC? That, at least, would be perfectly possible without a major overhaul to the existing system.
The basic issue is that the current system as it stands doesn't work well. That means that solutions should be discussed. And your recommendation would be a decent solution.
Which doesn't equate to "this is a dead horse". See, anytime you have customers who are unhappy, they get to say why they are unhappy and they can - AND WILL - keep bringing it up. That's literally how business works.3 -
azjuwelz✭✭✭✭No.I like the option to shop around different traders for the best price on things. A single storefront would monopolize prices and be a huge headache to search for anything. I have to wait long enough as it is for items to load.
And I'm on console.Xbox-NA
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D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No.A lot of people like the idea of a Trading Guild. Not everyone wants to socialize even in an MMO. We need more kiosks in towns that no one visits anymore. Trading guilds are growing especially with the Guild Finder.2 -
Urigall✭✭✭Other (Pleas explain)NotSuzyHomemaker wrote: »
I can only speak from my own experience, unless I poll others. That experience is one of the occasional pita, running around for items, but mostly I haven't had a problem using the system. Perhaps I'm simply used to how it works.
I'm not suggesting the guild system should be the sole mechanism for trading. In fact, I would like to see an auction house running in parallel with trade guilds - said as much in other threads and explained why.
The gist of what I was saying above was manage - not shy away from - change, so there is a way to reverse that change if anything goes wrong. Perhaps I worded what I said earlier badly.
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes.
Yeah, it would be for the best. All of the guild traders are connected anyway through the use of addons that people rely on for pricing. So they already share the same market. It would also have the added benefit of doing away with bidding for spots and all that dues nonsense which corrupt leaders use to pad their pockets with gold.Edited by Jeremy on June 17, 2019 11:45PM3 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other (Pleas explain)Personally, I'd love it. But it's not going to happen. Stop asking for it.
/target DeadHorse
/beat1 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes.NotSuzyHomemaker wrote: »Console doesn't have TTC. A unified auction system would be greatest on console where you have to travel from town to town to search each guild individually. And guess what? B.S. time sinks are B.S.
You could still have trade guilds. Just have them feed into a unified system.
The requirement to "travel from town to town" at the moment bring up other issues:
(1) New players have their experience ruined. Is your item in Coldharbour? Nevermind that the story hasn't brought you there yet, you find a port there just to buy your item. Then while you're there, be careful not to see any spoilers or pick up any quests that may be spoilers.
(2) New players who can't travel or don't know the guild system get gouged. Often starter zones have higher prices. This may even lead to RMT being more of a temptation when player think they need gold to afford the items.
A unified market where you don't have to search and roam around benefits the play experience.3 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes.Chrysoprase wrote: »If anyone could sell anything at any time the market would be flooded with items and prices would sink so low that it wouldn't be worth it to sell anything at all.
Right now a lot of people already sell items close to, at, or even less than, the amount they would get if they just sold to an NPC vendor. And that's gross sales price. Their cut after fees is even likelier to be less.
Undercutting will happen in every system. I definitely believe people who can sell for higher prices are really betting that the person browsing the store can't be bothered to shop around.
As for a unified system driving the price down to oblivion, I can say from my experience in FFXIV and SWTOR that this might happen with some items but not all. I have sold items at 5x even 10x the price of the lowest listing in SWTOR and they still move in a couple of days. It all depends on what you are selling and the mentality of who's buying.
Invariably, wealthy buyers and established players with money will care more about time than money, and will be willing to blow money -- sometimes outrageous sums -- for the convenience of time.
A global market search is the endgame model -- it saves people time.5 -
Urigall✭✭✭Other (Pleas explain)Dusk_Coven wrote: »New players
That's something that I hadn't considered when thinking about a global auction house - new players. Would a global clearing house benefit them? Quite possible that it would. Too new to the game to suss out how to trade, don't have the time, maybe not even the inclination, to participate in a trade guild.
It's worth thinking about trading and new players - good point.
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes.Dusk_Coven wrote: »Chrysoprase wrote: »If anyone could sell anything at any time the market would be flooded with items and prices would sink so low that it wouldn't be worth it to sell anything at all.
Right now a lot of people already sell items close to, at, or even less than, the amount they would get if they just sold to an NPC vendor. And that's gross sales price. Their cut after fees is even likelier to be less.
Undercutting will happen in every system. I definitely believe people who can sell for higher prices are really betting that the person browsing the store can't be bothered to shop around.
As for a unified system driving the price down to oblivion, I can say from my experience in FFXIV and SWTOR that this might happen with some items but not all. I have sold items at 5x even 10x the price of the lowest listing in SWTOR and they still move in a couple of days. It all depends on what you are selling and the mentality of who's buying.
Invariably, wealthy buyers and established players with money will care more about time than money, and will be willing to blow money -- sometimes outrageous sums -- for the convenience of time.
A global market search is the endgame model -- it saves people time.
The undercut argument had some legitimacy before the use of these market addons. I didn't agree with it. But at least it had a sound logic behind it. Now with the widespread use of these addons that everyone uses to determine the value of items there isn't really a sound argument anymore in respect to guild traders preventing undercutting or market manipulation. So that argument is dead in the water now. What ever vulnerabilities an auction house has so does these guild traders as both systems now share a common market.Edited by Jeremy on June 18, 2019 12:01AM2 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No.Dusk_Coven wrote: »(1) New players have their experience ruined. Is your item in Coldharbour? Nevermind that the story hasn't brought you there yet, you find a port there just to buy your item. Then while you're there, be careful not to see any spoilers or pick up any quests that may be spoilers.
(2) New players who can't travel or don't know the guild system get gouged. Often starter zones have higher prices. This may even lead to RMT being more of a temptation when player think they need gold to afford the items.
1. Not that hard. You just go from the wayshrine to the trader your after and back. You don't have to go out of your way to not talk to the NPCs.
2. Starter zones have higher prices because there's a lot of traffic. More traffic means more demand and more inventory turnover, so sellers can charge a bit more for their items. Maybe not as much as the major hubs, but still, more than you'd find in the remote traders. Sure, a new player might get gouged the first time he buys something, but that can happen anywhere. Even with an AH. Especially with an AH.
And no, spending 3k for an item you can find elsewhere for 2.5k does not qualify as "gouging"."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."2 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes.Jayman1000 wrote: »
There's guilds in ever game with auction houses I'm not sure I understand what you mean? Most MMORPGs have an auction house and have guilds. I'd rather be in a guild to be friends and have fun instead of ONLY in the guild to trade.Jayman1000 wrote: »
To me a unified auction house is the same as a global auction house, I'm not sure if everyone thought I was referring to something else but I mean global. Just like world of warcraft.
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Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭No.Jayman1000 wrote: »
There's guilds in ever game with auction houses I'm not sure I understand what you mean? Most MMORPGs have an auction house and have guilds. I'd rather be in a guild to be friends and have fun instead of ONLY in the guild to trade.Jayman1000 wrote: »
To me a unified auction house is the same as a global auction house, I'm not sure if everyone thought I was referring to something else but I mean global. Just like world of warcraft.
ok, I get it, you'd want the guild traders gone then, but not the actual guilds themselves (obviously lol, that'd be crazy if they did that).
Thanks for clarification of AH. So this is the same old question: "do you want a global AH instead of guild traders?" poll.Edited by Jayman1000 on June 18, 2019 12:16AM2 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jayman1000 wrote: »Jayman1000 wrote: »
There's guilds in ever game with auction houses I'm not sure I understand what you mean? Most MMORPGs have an auction house and have guilds. I'd rather be in a guild to be friends and have fun instead of ONLY in the guild to trade.Jayman1000 wrote: »
To me a unified auction house is the same as a global auction house, I'm not sure if everyone thought I was referring to something else but I mean global. Just like world of warcraft.
ok, I get it, you'd want the guild traders gone then, but not the actual guilds themselves (obviously lol, that'd be crazy if they did that).
Thanks for clarification of AH. So this is the same old question: "do you want a global AH instead of guild traders?" poll.
Of course it is. And while I'm kind of a diehard global AH person, there's reasons why it's not likely to fly here. For one thing.... the trader guilds are - um - deeply entrenched. Take their raison d'être away, and there will be wholesale loss of players, which will definitely not be good for ZOS's bottom line. And of course.... ZOS did this to be "different" and they're not likely to back down on that.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No.What would happen to trade guilds?!
Clearly trade guild would serve no purpose anymore. If the guild leader repurposes it and chooses to lead it properly for it's new purpose. I would expect many will just close shop or slowly die out.
Not to worry, Zos chose the guild trader system for this game and doubt they would want to spend the large sum to design a new system which would be a waste since the current system works fine. The guild history issue is really a separate issue that just happens to impact trading guilds a little more than others.1 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yes.To players who enjoy the trade game in ESO, this is like asking to convert all Trials to delves or public dungeons or to remove combat entirely for a purely social experience.
It's obtuse and selfish to request it be completely changed.
It's selfish to ask that I actually be allowed to find and purchase the item I am looking for?
You got a weeeeeeerd definition of selfish.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No.NotSuzyHomemaker wrote: »
The system clearly does work and works well which has been shown for almost 5 years. It is evidently robust and vibrant and Zos can see the millions of gold that trade hands through the dozens of guild traders and guilds every day. We can see this with each new DLC zone Zos that adds new traders they get utilized.
You merely do not like the system and that is it. So it is a false pretense to suggest it does not work for that reason.2 -
wenchmore420b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No.No. Just no....
I won't even go into the reasons of WHY it wont work. It is plainly documented from the 100's of other threads, which also show the majority say No. And so has ZoS, many times, that NO they are not re-writing the whole base game to include a AH. But, I will post something relevant......
Huzzah!!!!
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mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Other (Pleas explain)With the current amount of outrage about the addons and guild traders, I'm surprised more people are defending the current system. The current system is terrible in my opinion and only by having addons makes it somewhat tolerable (console folks are just screwed on that point). The other recent debacle was the Rawl'Kha shenanigans, which people freaked out about again.
Most of the time reading these threads every week (since there seems to be a new one almost always), I find myself wondering what the pros and cons are of an actual auction house type system. A lot of the cons honestly don't make much sense as they're already in place with what we currently have. Is there someone who could point out the pros and cons with actual reasoning behind them?
That's exactly what polls like this don't do. To poll, you need both options weighed out. Listed cons of implementing AH vs cons for retaining current system. Listed pros of implementing AH vs pros in retention of current system. No poll satisfies that requirement and is by default biased as it only proposes one aspect, often obscuring the actual motivation.
My defacto vote is always no (undecided parses with majority in a polling system) until a real thread addresses, weighted and clear, the benefits and shortfalls for both arguments concisely.
That ain't going to happen...Edited by mairwen85 on June 18, 2019 5:03AM1 -
aaisoaho✭✭✭✭✭No.I'm glad we have guild traders instead of Global Auction House. There is a design reasons why you should implement one thing instead of others - and I think the current trader system fits ESO better.
Do you know what games are made of? Inconvenience, obstacles. Convenient means easy and easy is boring. (well, too hard means anxiety, there is a sweet spot where you want your players to be)
ESO's main focus is not in the end-game raiding or PVP, to me they heavily focus on exploration and storytelling. By having inconvenience in trading, it shifts focus a bit. The inconvenience part of the guild traders is that you need to explore different traders - which plays straight into the focus. I think exploration is just a secondary focus of the said system and the main focus is guilds. Having a gameplay focusing on guilds gives guilds more purpose and encourages players to interact with each other.
Inconvenience creates gameplay. This means we have more depth on merchant/trader gameplay, which GAH would not provide. Take it away and those who enjoy the current system might leave. You can decorate your merchant stall via tabards, you can try to choose your location weekly (but you need to compete against other guilds) and you can hunt for bargains.
Trading is almost always emergent gameplay, and emergency is something the industry hails as a good thing, creating more fun than what the sum of the parts would be. The classical example in schools of what emergent gameplay is the Corrupted Blood -incident.Quick summary: back in the day, WoW launched a 'trial'/raid where there was a boss called Hakkar. Hakkar could place a debuff called Corrupted Blood on players and the debuff could spread from player to player. It was intended to be contained in the said raid, but the debuff managed to escape the instance. This created a spreading plague capable of wiping out cities filled with adventurers.Right now, the trading of guild traders is the extreme example of emergency in the guild trader system. (by trading of traders I mean: Guild manages to grab a trader on a prime spot with an intention of selling it forward)
EDIT: If you are wondering how making trading more convenient is taking away from merchant gameplay, let me make an analogy to a different gameplay aspect: veteran trials. You could make vet trials more convenient by lifting the player count restriction by making the instances public instead of private. It is more convenient to have more players beating the bosses in the same instance. Would it be more fun? For those focusing on vet trials most certainly not, it would cause an outcry.Edited by aaisoaho on June 18, 2019 5:23AM3 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yes.I'd be happy with a substantially improved present system, extended so as to allow restricted levels of trading through a NPC trader for casual traders and those guild traders without a kiosk, but given the stark choice between the present system as is and some form of auction house then I would opt for the latter.
Ive wanted for a long time something where both systems can co-exist. I really dont think the current setup is fair for players that arent in Trade Guilds or Trade Guilds that cant regularly compete for the top trafficked areas. The truth is ZOS is missing out on a larger gold sink with the current system.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax7 -
Urigall✭✭✭Other (Pleas explain)Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Ive wanted for a long time something where both systems can co-exist. I really dont think the current setup is fair for players that arent in Trade Guilds or Trade Guilds that cant regularly compete for the top trafficked areas. The truth is ZOS is missing out on a larger gold sink with the current system.
Optimum solution imho.
Majority voting disenfranchises up to 49% of those who voted. Where a decision on one option is essential, then majority voting is the only way to move forward in a democratic system. If more than one option can be implemented, so that all preferences can be accommodated, then that's the best way forward. It's difficult to accept that only one form of trading is essential in ESO, unless there are technical limitations.
In fact, the only objection to more than one system being operated seems to be if there are technical obstacles. If running both systems is technically possible, there is no valid objection to an auction house - of whatever form - alongside the guild system. Will an auction house damage trade guild profits? Perhaps. Is that a valid reason for protecting trade guilds from competition? No. If anything, economic competition would add an element of reality into trading, whereby remaining competitive - in the context of pricing across the whole trading spectrum - becomes an imperative.
And the comment about the increased gold sink is germane. This issue is frequently cited as a reason for not doing away with the guild system. Might be a valid point so it follows that an even bigger gold sink can only be of benefit to the in game economy. That would be one, likely outcome of expanding the trading system if the latter allows more players can participate.1
