This thread is not about anything other than restoring PC access to the guild history and restoring API access to the history.
Stay on topic.

Knowledge wrote: »

It's important to note that the console players go without any addons and the PC players have lost functionality for a short time and the forums go in flames. Can't we give ZOS a chance to fix this? Haven't we all made mistakes in our lives? I know I have, I regret things. Lets just adapt until the fix comes and enjoy Elsewyr.

We did give a chance to explain their end of the story and Matt Firor started a stickied discussion on the forum.
It is still there, with too many ifs and buts; yet naming no certain fixes or targets.
He basically says; no identified solution yet, no significant improvement until mid 2020. That is the earliest.
How should we proceed then?

RANKK7 wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

RANKK7 wrote: »

We need SALES HISTORY, what MM provides.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_SarahHecker

"The current plan is to re-enable the in-game portion, but leave the addon functionality that use the guild history turned off for now."

That "for now" is very worrisome, this is about getting to know what ZOS intends to do and when, sales history is too much important.

You are NOT providing QUALITY OF LIFE improvements (a detailed sales history should be in game, even the mails can't say in which guild an item sold or retain the price, which is absolutely ridiculous! In other words: not even THE BASIC!), the fact you turned off that functionality, simply thrown us in the Dark Ages of trading!

The fact there is no ETA or any further word about it, is very aggravating.

The fact that many quality of life improvements to the console version of the game is surprising. Maybe we should get all these add-ons that are so great on PC added to the base vanilla game so all platforms can use them?

Anything related to the trader, changing gear through macros, icons to keep track of dots, skyshard locations, lorebooks locations, true DPS parse breakdown so people can see where they can improve, you know stuff that could improve everyone's gameplay?

You shouldn't say that to me, take it up with ZOS, this thread is about a functionality that has been disabled for addons and people worried to wait forever to see it back, or never.

I agree, I sincerely hope ZOS would work on improvements (the majority of what the addons provide should be present in game TBFH, from a minimap, to better items categorization, to sales history, to a detailed combat ui and the list can go on and on, and on).

We get addons because we are on PC, so we have way less limitations than you guys and there is no reason we should be fine with such low console standards, though remember we have addons as long as they aren't being disabled like in this case and who knows if that could happen again and with others too in the future, for whatever problem they could encounter, remember above all we are relying on a bunch of users to provide quality of life for this game, because the Game Studio seems to not give a damn to decently do that themselves and in this we are in the same boat.

Addons should be there to enhance, not to build and provide in the first place because the game is shamefully lacking basic features!

Anyways, this thread is about that functionality alone being disabled for addons with no ETA, let's not derail.

Console players have tried to get quality of life added though, the problem is when we make a thread about it the thread gets flooded with PC players telling us console players that it was our choice to play on console. They say we don't deserve to have these features because PC users pay more for their PC than console players do (which btw makes zero sense because zos isn't making money off your pc or any console sale lol).

So you wonder why console players join your thread? It's because PC players feel entitled to run add-ons that get you banned in other MMORPG games because it provides a clear advantage over other players. So how do we as console players get a thread to be taken seriously if PC players tell us we don't deserve it and to get a PC if we want them?

Why can't PC players join our threads and say yes these work amazing they should be implimemted into the vanallia game so everyone can enjoy?

At the end of the day weather PC players want to admit it or not we all play ESO, maybe not together directly, but we have the same exact thing as you guys. A game that has terrible load screens, lags, and feels incomplete. The difference is PC players get an advantage because they use add-ons, and do not want time spent from zos to add them to the vanallia game.

So please let me know how I'm supposed to feel on this matter? What you guys have through your add-ons are basically global auction houses and yet I have recommended we get an NPC that tells us where items are located in the trader system (just like you guys can see) and the answer is no it would kill the market. Lol see why we enter your threads? If PC and console were "different games" we would have our own forums so we never paid attention to what was ever said about the other, but we share a forum and we should work together on lots of matters to improve the quality of life for the game as a whole, not just because they disabled your add-on.

If we did this all together last year, then we wouldn't be having this topic about it being disabled because just maybe if 80% plus of the forum said it would be great features they would have done it. Console had to fight with PC players for almost 2 years before text chat was added because PC players didn't want us to have it because we had voice chat. See my point now on why we all come here?

(Not saying you as in you personally but you is the PC players that admit it time and time again about how console players deserve nothing and make it sound like we shouldn't even be playing this game.)

Knowledge wrote: »

It's important to note that the console players go without any addons and the PC players have lost functionality for a short time and the forums go in flames. Can't we give ZOS a chance to fix this? Haven't we all made mistakes in our lives? I know I have, I regret things. Lets just adapt until the fix comes and enjoy Elsewyr.

Every trade guild in the game will literally have to be restructured if the API doesn't get re-enabled soon.

Membership in trade guilds on PC is based on how much you sell, which add-ons previously let us track. If the API isn't enabled soon, trade guilds will have to switch to a system of mandatory dues like on console since there is currently no way to track what members have sold.

GMs will have to deal with hundreds of angry members complaining about the mandatory dues. People will forget to pay them then complain about getting kicked (because it's never been a requirement before). It's going to be a mess for weeks. Running a trade guild was already a full time job, and it's just about to get even harder.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

It's important to note that the console players go without any addons and the PC players have lost functionality for a short time and the forums go in flames. Can't we give ZOS a chance to fix this? Haven't we all made mistakes in our lives? I know I have, I regret things. Lets just adapt until the fix comes and enjoy Elsewyr.

Every trade guild in the game will literally have to be restructured if the API doesn't get re-enabled soon.

Membership in trade guilds on PC is based on how much you sell, which add-ons previously let us track. If the API isn't enabled soon, trade guilds will have to switch to a system of mandatory dues like on console since there is currently no way to track what members have sold.

GMs will have to deal with hundreds of angry members complaining about the mandatory dues. People will forget to pay them then complain about getting kicked (because it's never been a requirement before). It's going to be a mess for weeks. Running a trade guild was already a full time job, and it's just about to get even harder.

So it's not okay for PC players to do it this way because they don't want to pay weekly dues and have raffles? You know console players are up to 15k a week and soon will be 20k a week plus have to do raffles to use the current trader system that is amazing right?

Well it's not alright because if we had some form of global auction house none of this would matter at all (been recommended numerous times). Console players need to have better system in place but instead we have to deal with this terrible system just because PC players have an add-on to help them avoid weekley dues?

If you need add-ons to make this system usuable it clearly is a bad system and should be reworked just saying.

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

It's important to note that the console players go without any addons and the PC players have lost functionality for a short time and the forums go in flames. Can't we give ZOS a chance to fix this? Haven't we all made mistakes in our lives? I know I have, I regret things. Lets just adapt until the fix comes and enjoy Elsewyr.

Every trade guild in the game will literally have to be restructured if the API doesn't get re-enabled soon.

Membership in trade guilds on PC is based on how much you sell, which add-ons previously let us track. If the API isn't enabled soon, trade guilds will have to switch to a system of mandatory dues like on console since there is currently no way to track what members have sold.

GMs will have to deal with hundreds of angry members complaining about the mandatory dues. People will forget to pay them then complain about getting kicked (because it's never been a requirement before). It's going to be a mess for weeks. Running a trade guild was already a full time job, and it's just about to get even harder.

So it's not okay for PC players to do it this way because they don't want to pay weekly dues and have raffles? You know console players are up to 15k a week and soon will be 20k a week plus have to do raffles to use the current trader system that is amazing right?

Well it's not alright because if we had some form of global auction house none of this would matter at all (been recommended numerous times). Console players need to have better system in place but instead we have to deal with this terrible system just because PC players have an add-on to help them avoid weekley dues?

If you need add-ons to make this system usuable it clearly is a bad system and should be reworked just saying.

You missed the entire point. Your guilds have been structured this way since day 1.

PC trade guilds have been structured completely differently. Now they have to be re-structured, overnight. That creates a whole world of problems console players have never dealt with.

And of course an AH would be a superior solution to the trader system. But ZOS has said there is 0% chance of that happening. I'm almost positive it's an engine/server load issue (the game can't even update mail instantly, imagine an AH).

Plenty of players (mostly PC) have asked ZOS for better guild management tools (i.e. letting us track player sales without cumbersome add-ons). ZOS said that won't be happening.

[snip] The game is a mess because of the design choices they made.

[edited for baiting]

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

I just find it ironic is all WE ALL PLAY THE SAME GAME,

No, we do not.

PC allows for functions console does not. It changes the game and alters the mechanics in which players interact.

This issue needs to be on the top of the developers list.

(I have ESO on XBOX. Never play on my console. I will stream from my PC to Shield but that is not console gaming)

Royaji wrote: »

It really boggles my mind that some people expect to get any kind of update on a weekend. ZOS are not a hospital, police or firefighters. They have regular 5-day work week and expecting anything before monday is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Except that most players aren't hospital, police or firefighters, which means their free time is on the week-ends, which means they play mostly on the week-ends, which means week-end IS prime time for the online video game industry. It always boggled my mind why ESO community managers and customer support are always simply "away" on week-ends. I'm not saying they should be here 24/7, but I think such positions should be organized for those employees to be available when the most players are online and participating.

Also, more specific to the topic on hand, trader bids happen on sunday evenings. That's week-end. And that's where the absence of sales and income statistics fails dramatically for guild masters to know what to do for bidding and member management.

Finally, this thread - and other threads about this issue, show much more desperation and hope, than entitlement (unlike, obviously, many other threads).

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

I just think there's too much hysteria surrounding this whole thing. Perhaps consulting console players about how they run their trade guilds will be a good idea in the interim. They seem to do just fine without this API. Please give ZOS a reasonable amount of time to fix the issue.

In most cases a "reasonable amount of time" is defined as 7 - 14 business days.

Please. Stop. This.
Console players aren't "doing just fine". They're playing a completely different game with regards to trading.

Master Merchant plays the role of "leaderboards" for those who play the trading game. They want to know where they stand as compared to others. Without this
It's definitely not the same game as simply getting rid of excess stuff by selling it. We experienced traders don't need the gold (we're sitting on piles of it already). We need the trading game.
It's also definitely not the same game as participating to lotteries and raffles.
It makes sense to contribute to trading communities by doing what trading is for : buying stuff, farming stuff, selling stuff. That's not the same as buying lottery tickets.

Please everyone referring to consoles please leave this thread. We're talking trading on PC/Mac here, not trading on consoles. Two entirely different things.

I am suggesting solutions in the interim such as speaking to console players on the forums that don't rely on addons to manage their trading guild. Stop telling me to leave the thread.

Royaji wrote: »

It really is just a game and nothing life-threatening will happen

I agree on that, BUT.. ZOS makes money out of us logging in everyday, out of the game becoming a big (sometimes unreasonably big) part of our lives. Therefore they should somehow service that, too. I agree with all the business aspects that you've detailed, but maybe the devs should open their eyes more widely to the fact that the "community" relies more on "player-created-content" than on the content they produce (not saying the latter doesn't matter, just that the former matters even more).

Social interactions, guilds, small events, minigames, human stories, etc... that's what keeps us logging in. That's what makes us a community (more than people who cheer at E3).

Trading on PC/Mac, thanks to addons, has become a significant game within the game, with significant social interactions. It's an underworld (and no, not mafia-like like some people like to suggest, but rather family-like) that even ZOS might not be truly aware of. Sometimes a drama or two emerge here on the forums, but overall, this huge part of the game is kept hidden from major controversies.

The fact that every thread on this topic has been unfairly and bluntly shut down by the moderators (they should have banned the trolls instead) is infuriating and shows that ZOS isn't aware of the importance of this "underworld", and of the significance of all the player-created content in this underworld.

More than news (we know Gina cannot produce "news" on her own), what we expect from @ZOS_GinaBruno at this stage is to tell the devs how important this underworld is, and it all depends on tools like Master Merchant. It's not a side thing. We don't log in for running dungeons we've run a zillion times already. We don't log in for trials that take ages to complete. We don't log in for stories and quests we've already run. We log in daily to see how much we've sold, to say hello, to see how everyone's doing, to see if we won the trader bid, to see what's going on in our underworld in ESO. If that's gone, we may just as well leave. And we don't say that as a threat or a revenge or anything, we say that because OUR CONTENT is gone with Master Merchant... and we want Gina to explain this to the devs.

lordrichter wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

This was not a mistake. This was an intentional move which was done with apparent disregard for the severe impact that it would have. That cavalier indifference speaks to a mindset that gives me serious pause.

Intentional, yes. Done with disregard for the impact. Doubtful. Cavalier indifference? No.

I'm afraid ZOS has widely underestimated the impact. They probably don't know much about the trading communities on PC and the player-created content and interactions they provide on a daily basis.
That's what we're trying to explain in these threads : the impact.

If we had central auction house instead of guild trader, we would not need the add ons for guild masters. They could relax and be a regular player and not a full time accountant with no life outside ESO.

Guild traders are clunky.

*whips the horse carcass harder*

And just to make my point even more clear - if needed : the trading game as played on the PC/Mac platform, and the trading guilds associated with that system, provide, FOR FREE, what developers (even every business runner for that matter) struggle night and day to produce : a place where we love to hangout and spend time.

I'm not sure they're fully aware of that. And it all goes away without Master Merchant and similar addons. Because you can't be part of a story without indicators or milestones. And because GMs may just throw the towel, and soon (not soonTM, just plain soon).

This is urgent.