tmbrinks wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

With a GAH trading guilds will just change focus and not disappear. Consider this. What do all of the trade guilds do with their resources currently? Their focus is on mostly securing their spot. The gold they spend is then removed from the game. There are guilds that fight for each spot so it is very competitive. So where do those resources, gold and efforts get redirected with a GAH? One to two people may not be able to control the market but a group of 200 could. And it could potentially get to the point where you have to be in a guild to buy certain items

Also what would be the replacement gold sink. We pay listing fees currently and I can say that the amount of gold sunk by traders wont be covered unless you significantly increase the listing fees or have another sink.

The replacement gold sink could be what was mentioned in this thread at some point. Mounts, pets, cosmetics,............ a variety of things that should've already been there, but ended up in the crown store. We should have dozens of mounts available for gold. Sure trade guilds will change focus. Some will try to to stay trade guilds, but will eventually adapt to the new system, and take on another focus. By nature, we adapt as humans. We don't like changes at first, but we do adapt.

Ironic that ESO has a functioning economy that is different than all other MMOs yet you’re trying to argue that changing ESO’s economy to one that is essentially the same as everyone else’s would somehow constitute change.

Sounds to me that it’s probably you that needs to adapt to the world that has changed around you.

I wouldn't say a corrupt, inconvenient economy is truly functioning for everyone. People have been complaining about the trader system since shortly after it began. Someone in the thread mentioned other games have similar economies. For example, (mentioned within this thread)another game which was similar to ESO's trading vendor, but they use supplies instead of gold to fund it. This isn't a completely one of a kind deal. I didn't suggest an AH. I suggested an adjusted AH, a better version of what exists currently in some other games with limits to eliminate the current and many forms of corruption that occur in trading systems. Only a player abusing the current system wouldn't want a system free of corruption.

nice bait. How didn't I adapt?
DO you know me? No.
DO you know what I earn per day? NO right?

So explain how I need to adapt. Proposing a better system doesn't mean I didn't adapt. I've been here since Beta. Hang on I'll go get my popcorn while you try to answer that.Btw, this isn't personal. It's a set of valid questions.

They complained because it was different. People don't like change, so they want to change it to how they imagine it to be in other games. The same can be said of the people who like the system as it currently is, People don't like change. They've adapted to it.

As for the "adjusted AH", I do writs on 36 characters a day... you can be assured that I go out and buy more than 100 stacks of materials at a time, so that I have enough to do them. Daily/Weekly limits would only make it more difficult on me to do what I would like to do. Who is going to determine the "optimal" amount that can be bought for each and every item in the game? That is an unreasonable request, too much time and effort, with no way of determining a reasonable amount. What is good for a person with 1 character is certainly not good for somebody with 36.

People would still be able to get around those artificial limits, whether it's from coordination with guild mates, the creating of alternate accounts that can be used to do the same. There is absolutely no way to "fix" the problem of price fixing by adding in these limits. Under the current system there is a time constraint that limits a person, or group of people from doing this, not saying it can't be done, but it's more difficult with the current arrangement.

Others have brought up the issue of searching all those listings. ESO's "megaserver" is larger than all other MMOs, who split their player base into smaller groupings, so they aren't looking at as many listings. The guild stores already run like crap just looking at one high volume kiosk, multiply that by 50 to account for all of them... sounds terrible.

Yes, ZoS can change their mind, but they have directly stated that they like the current system, they designed the system to not be the same as other games (because ESO is a different MMO than other games). It's worked, the game doesn't have rampant inflation, it doesn't have massive price fixing. Yes, some very, very rare items, where there might be less than 10 for sale in all of Tamriel, have had their markets "cornered", but the staple items in the game, it is very, very difficult to do so, which is why they've remained remarkably stable over the last 5 years.

TTC is atrocious. 90% of the time the item isn't even there anymore. I think people put WAAAAAAAY too much stock in how much TTC affects the economy on PC ESO.

MM is only as good as the guilds that you're in (well... it's worthless right now until ZoS corrects the issues they have there), yet some people treat MM as a bible.

The gold sink has to be there. You honestly believe that ZoS is going to take things OUT of the crown store... lol

I sell a lot of stuff, I'm in 3 large trading guilds. I had to learn what sells in some guilds over the others, it's interesting to see the differences. It's nuanced, it takes a little bit of thinking. I don't do the flip game (unless, while shopping, I see something that is massively underpriced, like the time I got 200 corn flower for 1800 gold ).

(These are not just directed at the quoted post, just a summary of what I've read over the past 3 pages catching up)

People complained about the trader system for many reasons. Switching from chat to traders was a small upgrade, but not an efficient or good one. It is inconvenient. It is easily manipulated, and required add ons to be halfway efficient only. It was and is easily recognizable that something better could and should be in place. YOu'd need 2 accounts or 2 separate servers for crafting with 36 chars which is fine. The limit would be per server. It wouldn't effect a second account or server. Still with 2 accounts/servers a person would have double the amount to buy as others. Not many people will bother with 2 full accounts or more. It's a hassle. Worth less than just adapting to the new system. Some might yes but not many. Many people creating alt accounts want mules to hold their personal items and don't even level the chars. They don't want to waste the time on an alt account that they could be spending on the main account. It just isn't the norm for most players. Many still only have 1 or 2 chars they play. Not to mention, most people recognize already crafting writs as a source of money on 36 chars , if they aren't farming any of those mats themselves is very inefficient. That goes doubly so for master writs, which aren't worth quite as much to sell or craft anymore as in the past. So, it's unlikely you aren't farming any of those mats, unless you enjoy losing money, which is also unlikely. As I said unlikely, but not completely impossible.

I don't do the farming, other than the surveys I collect. Will I stop and pick up nodes as I'm doing other activities, yes. I can clear 15 million gold a month, and that's with buying all of the materials from guild traders. Your complete lack of knowledge and false statement here diminishes everything else you've said here. It is most assuredly NOT a losing proposition. If you are this ill-informed about this... I question your "knowledge" in the rest of the things that you say.

Putting an extreme case that is unlikely in the scenario that doesn't fit the majority is no reason for ZOS not to implement a better system. Most off the other things you are saying are unlikely too. It would be too much cost and effort to do that. Trade guilds would pretty much focus on other aspects of the game. It is unlikely you would get that many people together without anything leaking out about it, before they could do anything. Just like all of the things these guilds do now are common knowledge to seasoned players. This certainly isn't the first thread on the guild trader corruption asking for another system and it definitely won't be the last.

So, because my situation doesn't fit within your, juttaa77b16_ESO's system of "acceptability", I am basically told "**** you"

The system doesn't work. It is corrupt in multiple ways. This system has all of those things you said it doesn't. Many examples have been given in the thread by multiple people. I know you want the traders to stay, but staying like this without a massive overhaul or a regulated replacement system is just not good for this game. The only people supporting this current trade system are the people who are spreading the lies and corruption. Those people just keep coming up with scare tactics in these threads to make people, who don't know better, think it will somehow be worse. All of this drama just because they can't control and manipulate prices anymore.

So, you are accusing me of being a liar, of being corrupt, using scare tactics and that I control and manipulate prices?

No one specifically said ZOS should remove things from the crown store. They could put many future items which are similar into the game for gold. People have been complaining about that lack of items for gold for ages too. I actually likely seeing the traders around in the game. SO I wouldn't mind just a complete system overhaul, but the current system behind these traders has to go one way or another. Either overhaul or an adjusted AH.

You honestly believe that ZoS is going to put in a system of getting cosmetics with gold, rather than the crown store? You honestly believe their going to do something that will cut into crown store sales? You're naive.

But but but ... reasons!

No seriously, you are 100% right. I do 1/36th the work you do and generally clear 200-300K a week, and just like you, about 95% of my farming is either when I happen to see something on my way to a quest or when I finally feel like doing my surveys. And even then, much like you, occasionally I’ll still have to buy some materials and somehow still make a profit.

My brain would explode at the monotony of doing that many writs but I respect that you can, and I see nothing wrong with you playing the game how you want to play it. Good for you.

Once I got my system down, it's honestly not that bad. I've gotten all 36 done is just over an hour when load screens are good, and it's all I'm focused on... (and I don't have to defend myself from blatant insults from some forum warriors).

I firmly believe that in an MMO, everybody is going to have to "grind" something to make money in the game. I chose writs. But when I don't want to farm for the monster helm styles in dungeons... I just buy it. I don't want to farm for furnishing patterns/motifs, I just buy them. Some want to farm items to sell, some want to find deals to "flip", and some, like myself, do writs. There's no wrong way to do it!

tmbrinks wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

With a GAH trading guilds will just change focus and not disappear. Consider this. What do all of the trade guilds do with their resources currently? Their focus is on mostly securing their spot. The gold they spend is then removed from the game. There are guilds that fight for each spot so it is very competitive. So where do those resources, gold and efforts get redirected with a GAH? One to two people may not be able to control the market but a group of 200 could. And it could potentially get to the point where you have to be in a guild to buy certain items

Also what would be the replacement gold sink. We pay listing fees currently and I can say that the amount of gold sunk by traders wont be covered unless you significantly increase the listing fees or have another sink.

The replacement gold sink could be what was mentioned in this thread at some point. Mounts, pets, cosmetics,............ a variety of things that should've already been there, but ended up in the crown store. We should have dozens of mounts available for gold. Sure trade guilds will change focus. Some will try to to stay trade guilds, but will eventually adapt to the new system, and take on another focus. By nature, we adapt as humans. We don't like changes at first, but we do adapt.

Ironic that ESO has a functioning economy that is different than all other MMOs yet you’re trying to argue that changing ESO’s economy to one that is essentially the same as everyone else’s would somehow constitute change.

Sounds to me that it’s probably you that needs to adapt to the world that has changed around you.

I wouldn't say a corrupt, inconvenient economy is truly functioning for everyone. People have been complaining about the trader system since shortly after it began. Someone in the thread mentioned other games have similar economies. For example, (mentioned within this thread)another game which was similar to ESO's trading vendor, but they use supplies instead of gold to fund it. This isn't a completely one of a kind deal. I didn't suggest an AH. I suggested an adjusted AH, a better version of what exists currently in some other games with limits to eliminate the current and many forms of corruption that occur in trading systems. Only a player abusing the current system wouldn't want a system free of corruption.

nice bait. How didn't I adapt?
DO you know me? No.
DO you know what I earn per day? NO right?

So explain how I need to adapt. Proposing a better system doesn't mean I didn't adapt. I've been here since Beta. Hang on I'll go get my popcorn while you try to answer that.Btw, this isn't personal. It's a set of valid questions.

They complained because it was different. People don't like change, so they want to change it to how they imagine it to be in other games. The same can be said of the people who like the system as it currently is, People don't like change. They've adapted to it.

As for the "adjusted AH", I do writs on 36 characters a day... you can be assured that I go out and buy more than 100 stacks of materials at a time, so that I have enough to do them. Daily/Weekly limits would only make it more difficult on me to do what I would like to do. Who is going to determine the "optimal" amount that can be bought for each and every item in the game? That is an unreasonable request, too much time and effort, with no way of determining a reasonable amount. What is good for a person with 1 character is certainly not good for somebody with 36.

People would still be able to get around those artificial limits, whether it's from coordination with guild mates, the creating of alternate accounts that can be used to do the same. There is absolutely no way to "fix" the problem of price fixing by adding in these limits. Under the current system there is a time constraint that limits a person, or group of people from doing this, not saying it can't be done, but it's more difficult with the current arrangement.

Others have brought up the issue of searching all those listings. ESO's "megaserver" is larger than all other MMOs, who split their player base into smaller groupings, so they aren't looking at as many listings. The guild stores already run like crap just looking at one high volume kiosk, multiply that by 50 to account for all of them... sounds terrible.

Yes, ZoS can change their mind, but they have directly stated that they like the current system, they designed the system to not be the same as other games (because ESO is a different MMO than other games). It's worked, the game doesn't have rampant inflation, it doesn't have massive price fixing. Yes, some very, very rare items, where there might be less than 10 for sale in all of Tamriel, have had their markets "cornered", but the staple items in the game, it is very, very difficult to do so, which is why they've remained remarkably stable over the last 5 years.

TTC is atrocious. 90% of the time the item isn't even there anymore. I think people put WAAAAAAAY too much stock in how much TTC affects the economy on PC ESO.

MM is only as good as the guilds that you're in (well... it's worthless right now until ZoS corrects the issues they have there), yet some people treat MM as a bible.

The gold sink has to be there. You honestly believe that ZoS is going to take things OUT of the crown store... lol

I sell a lot of stuff, I'm in 3 large trading guilds. I had to learn what sells in some guilds over the others, it's interesting to see the differences. It's nuanced, it takes a little bit of thinking. I don't do the flip game (unless, while shopping, I see something that is massively underpriced, like the time I got 200 corn flower for 1800 gold ).

(These are not just directed at the quoted post, just a summary of what I've read over the past 3 pages catching up)

People complained about the trader system for many reasons. Switching from chat to traders was a small upgrade, but not an efficient or good one. It is inconvenient. It is easily manipulated, and required add ons to be halfway efficient only. It was and is easily recognizable that something better could and should be in place. YOu'd need 2 accounts or 2 separate servers for crafting with 36 chars which is fine. The limit would be per server. It wouldn't effect a second account or server. Still with 2 accounts/servers a person would have double the amount to buy as others. Not many people will bother with 2 full accounts or more. It's a hassle. Worth less than just adapting to the new system. Some might yes but not many. Many people creating alt accounts want mules to hold their personal items and don't even level the chars. They don't want to waste the time on an alt account that they could be spending on the main account. It just isn't the norm for most players. Many still only have 1 or 2 chars they play. Not to mention, most people recognize already crafting writs as a source of money on 36 chars , if they aren't farming any of those mats themselves is very inefficient. That goes doubly so for master writs, which aren't worth quite as much to sell or craft anymore as in the past. So, it's unlikely you aren't farming any of those mats, unless you enjoy losing money, which is also unlikely. As I said unlikely, but not completely impossible.

I don't do the farming, other than the surveys I collect. Will I stop and pick up nodes as I'm doing other activities, yes. I can clear 15 million gold a month, and that's with buying all of the materials from guild traders. Your complete lack of knowledge and false statement here diminishes everything else you've said here. It is most assuredly NOT a losing proposition. If you are this ill-informed about this... I question your "knowledge" in the rest of the things that you say.

Putting an extreme case that is unlikely in the scenario that doesn't fit the majority is no reason for ZOS not to implement a better system. Most off the other things you are saying are unlikely too. It would be too much cost and effort to do that. Trade guilds would pretty much focus on other aspects of the game. It is unlikely you would get that many people together without anything leaking out about it, before they could do anything. Just like all of the things these guilds do now are common knowledge to seasoned players. This certainly isn't the first thread on the guild trader corruption asking for another system and it definitely won't be the last.

So, because my situation doesn't fit within your, juttaa77b16_ESO's system of "acceptability", I am basically told "**** you"

The system doesn't work. It is corrupt in multiple ways. This system has all of those things you said it doesn't. Many examples have been given in the thread by multiple people. I know you want the traders to stay, but staying like this without a massive overhaul or a regulated replacement system is just not good for this game. The only people supporting this current trade system are the people who are spreading the lies and corruption. Those people just keep coming up with scare tactics in these threads to make people, who don't know better, think it will somehow be worse. All of this drama just because they can't control and manipulate prices anymore.

So, you are accusing me of being a liar, of being corrupt, using scare tactics and that I control and manipulate prices?

No one specifically said ZOS should remove things from the crown store. They could put many future items which are similar into the game for gold. People have been complaining about that lack of items for gold for ages too. I actually likely seeing the traders around in the game. SO I wouldn't mind just a complete system overhaul, but the current system behind these traders has to go one way or another. Either overhaul or an adjusted AH.

You honestly believe that ZoS is going to put in a system of getting cosmetics with gold, rather than the crown store? You honestly believe their going to do something that will cut into crown store sales? You're naive.

But but but ... reasons!

No seriously, you are 100% right. I do 1/36th the work you do and generally clear 200-300K a week, and just like you, about 95% of my farming is either when I happen to see something on my way to a quest or when I finally feel like doing my surveys. And even then, much like you, occasionally I’ll still have to buy some materials and somehow still make a profit.

My brain would explode at the monotony of doing that many writs but I respect that you can, and I see nothing wrong with you playing the game how you want to play it. Good for you.

Once I got my system down, it's honestly not that bad. I've gotten all 36 done is just over an hour when load screens are good, and it's all I'm focused on... (and I don't have to defend myself from blatant insults from some forum warriors).

I firmly believe that in an MMO, everybody is going to have to "grind" something to make money in the game. I chose writs. But when I don't want to farm for the monster helm styles in dungeons... I just buy it. I don't want to farm for furnishing patterns/motifs, I just buy them. Some want to farm items to sell, some want to find deals to "flip", and some, like myself, do writs. There's no wrong way to do it!

I didn't see any forum warriors comment on anything you said. I do see though. Your supposed situation is extreme and no one said any of what you put there to you. Fact is no matter how fast your SSD is, if you even have one, the load screens of each character alone will be ca.2 mins in the games current state, which = 72 mins without even taking into consideration yet that you need time to actually craft. add on or not that takes time per char. There is no way you are just over an hour with all chars finished no matter how focused you are. Even so you still would need to have to farm some of those mats, meaning you don't need to buy the entire amount and you would have 2 accounts or servers to do it on. Problem solved. Every single one of my points was valid. Just because you don't like them and they don't fit into your stance doesn't change that.

So, while you are making assumptions... I run 2 instances of the game, so when one is in load screens, the other one I'm doing the writs on!!! I can complete each character in under 2 minutes, I've done a lot of writs. 36 x 2 = 72 minutes!

What I mean by "load screens are good" is that "I don't have to wait for the 2nd character to load in before my 1st account character is done" so for me good load screens means absolutely zero down time.

edit for math error... yikes.

(Hint: you are the forum warrior!)

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

With a GAH trading guilds will just change focus and not disappear. Consider this. What do all of the trade guilds do with their resources currently? Their focus is on mostly securing their spot. The gold they spend is then removed from the game. There are guilds that fight for each spot so it is very competitive. So where do those resources, gold and efforts get redirected with a GAH? One to two people may not be able to control the market but a group of 200 could. And it could potentially get to the point where you have to be in a guild to buy certain items

Also what would be the replacement gold sink. We pay listing fees currently and I can say that the amount of gold sunk by traders wont be covered unless you significantly increase the listing fees or have another sink.

The replacement gold sink could be what was mentioned in this thread at some point. Mounts, pets, cosmetics,............ a variety of things that should've already been there, but ended up in the crown store. We should have dozens of mounts available for gold. Sure trade guilds will change focus. Some will try to to stay trade guilds, but will eventually adapt to the new system, and take on another focus. By nature, we adapt as humans. We don't like changes at first, but we do adapt.

Ironic that ESO has a functioning economy that is different than all other MMOs yet you’re trying to argue that changing ESO’s economy to one that is essentially the same as everyone else’s would somehow constitute change.

Sounds to me that it’s probably you that needs to adapt to the world that has changed around you.

I wouldn't say a corrupt, inconvenient economy is truly functioning for everyone. People have been complaining about the trader system since shortly after it began. Someone in the thread mentioned other games have similar economies. For example, (mentioned within this thread)another game which was similar to ESO's trading vendor, but they use supplies instead of gold to fund it. This isn't a completely one of a kind deal. I didn't suggest an AH. I suggested an adjusted AH, a better version of what exists currently in some other games with limits to eliminate the current and many forms of corruption that occur in trading systems. Only a player abusing the current system wouldn't want a system free of corruption.

nice bait. How didn't I adapt?
DO you know me? No.
DO you know what I earn per day? NO right?

So explain how I need to adapt. Proposing a better system doesn't mean I didn't adapt. I've been here since Beta. Hang on I'll go get my popcorn while you try to answer that.Btw, this isn't personal. It's a set of valid questions.

They complained because it was different. People don't like change, so they want to change it to how they imagine it to be in other games. The same can be said of the people who like the system as it currently is, People don't like change. They've adapted to it.

As for the "adjusted AH", I do writs on 36 characters a day... you can be assured that I go out and buy more than 100 stacks of materials at a time, so that I have enough to do them. Daily/Weekly limits would only make it more difficult on me to do what I would like to do. Who is going to determine the "optimal" amount that can be bought for each and every item in the game? That is an unreasonable request, too much time and effort, with no way of determining a reasonable amount. What is good for a person with 1 character is certainly not good for somebody with 36.

People would still be able to get around those artificial limits, whether it's from coordination with guild mates, the creating of alternate accounts that can be used to do the same. There is absolutely no way to "fix" the problem of price fixing by adding in these limits. Under the current system there is a time constraint that limits a person, or group of people from doing this, not saying it can't be done, but it's more difficult with the current arrangement.

Others have brought up the issue of searching all those listings. ESO's "megaserver" is larger than all other MMOs, who split their player base into smaller groupings, so they aren't looking at as many listings. The guild stores already run like crap just looking at one high volume kiosk, multiply that by 50 to account for all of them... sounds terrible.

Yes, ZoS can change their mind, but they have directly stated that they like the current system, they designed the system to not be the same as other games (because ESO is a different MMO than other games). It's worked, the game doesn't have rampant inflation, it doesn't have massive price fixing. Yes, some very, very rare items, where there might be less than 10 for sale in all of Tamriel, have had their markets "cornered", but the staple items in the game, it is very, very difficult to do so, which is why they've remained remarkably stable over the last 5 years.

TTC is atrocious. 90% of the time the item isn't even there anymore. I think people put WAAAAAAAY too much stock in how much TTC affects the economy on PC ESO.

MM is only as good as the guilds that you're in (well... it's worthless right now until ZoS corrects the issues they have there), yet some people treat MM as a bible.

The gold sink has to be there. You honestly believe that ZoS is going to take things OUT of the crown store... lol

I sell a lot of stuff, I'm in 3 large trading guilds. I had to learn what sells in some guilds over the others, it's interesting to see the differences. It's nuanced, it takes a little bit of thinking. I don't do the flip game (unless, while shopping, I see something that is massively underpriced, like the time I got 200 corn flower for 1800 gold ).

(These are not just directed at the quoted post, just a summary of what I've read over the past 3 pages catching up)

People complained about the trader system for many reasons. Switching from chat to traders was a small upgrade, but not an efficient or good one. It is inconvenient. It is easily manipulated, and required add ons to be halfway efficient only. It was and is easily recognizable that something better could and should be in place. YOu'd need 2 accounts or 2 separate servers for crafting with 36 chars which is fine. The limit would be per server. It wouldn't effect a second account or server. Still with 2 accounts/servers a person would have double the amount to buy as others. Not many people will bother with 2 full accounts or more. It's a hassle. Worth less than just adapting to the new system. Some might yes but not many. Many people creating alt accounts want mules to hold their personal items and don't even level the chars. They don't want to waste the time on an alt account that they could be spending on the main account. It just isn't the norm for most players. Many still only have 1 or 2 chars they play. Not to mention, most people recognize already crafting writs as a source of money on 36 chars , if they aren't farming any of those mats themselves is very inefficient. That goes doubly so for master writs, which aren't worth quite as much to sell or craft anymore as in the past. So, it's unlikely you aren't farming any of those mats, unless you enjoy losing money, which is also unlikely. As I said unlikely, but not completely impossible.

I don't do the farming, other than the surveys I collect. Will I stop and pick up nodes as I'm doing other activities, yes. I can clear 15 million gold a month, and that's with buying all of the materials from guild traders. Your complete lack of knowledge and false statement here diminishes everything else you've said here. It is most assuredly NOT a losing proposition. If you are this ill-informed about this... I question your "knowledge" in the rest of the things that you say.

Putting an extreme case that is unlikely in the scenario that doesn't fit the majority is no reason for ZOS not to implement a better system. Most off the other things you are saying are unlikely too. It would be too much cost and effort to do that. Trade guilds would pretty much focus on other aspects of the game. It is unlikely you would get that many people together without anything leaking out about it, before they could do anything. Just like all of the things these guilds do now are common knowledge to seasoned players. This certainly isn't the first thread on the guild trader corruption asking for another system and it definitely won't be the last.

So, because my situation doesn't fit within your, juttaa77b16_ESO's system of "acceptability", I am basically told "**** you"

The system doesn't work. It is corrupt in multiple ways. This system has all of those things you said it doesn't. Many examples have been given in the thread by multiple people. I know you want the traders to stay, but staying like this without a massive overhaul or a regulated replacement system is just not good for this game. The only people supporting this current trade system are the people who are spreading the lies and corruption. Those people just keep coming up with scare tactics in these threads to make people, who don't know better, think it will somehow be worse. All of this drama just because they can't control and manipulate prices anymore.

So, you are accusing me of being a liar, of being corrupt, using scare tactics and that I control and manipulate prices?

No one specifically said ZOS should remove things from the crown store. They could put many future items which are similar into the game for gold. People have been complaining about that lack of items for gold for ages too. I actually likely seeing the traders around in the game. SO I wouldn't mind just a complete system overhaul, but the current system behind these traders has to go one way or another. Either overhaul or an adjusted AH.

You honestly believe that ZoS is going to put in a system of getting cosmetics with gold, rather than the crown store? You honestly believe their going to do something that will cut into crown store sales? You're naive.

But but but ... reasons!

No seriously, you are 100% right. I do 1/36th the work you do and generally clear 200-300K a week, and just like you, about 95% of my farming is either when I happen to see something on my way to a quest or when I finally feel like doing my surveys. And even then, much like you, occasionally I’ll still have to buy some materials and somehow still make a profit.

My brain would explode at the monotony of doing that many writs but I respect that you can, and I see nothing wrong with you playing the game how you want to play it. Good for you.

Once I got my system down, it's honestly not that bad. I've gotten all 36 done is just over an hour when load screens are good, and it's all I'm focused on... (and I don't have to defend myself from blatant insults from some forum warriors).

I firmly believe that in an MMO, everybody is going to have to "grind" something to make money in the game. I chose writs. But when I don't want to farm for the monster helm styles in dungeons... I just buy it. I don't want to farm for furnishing patterns/motifs, I just buy them. Some want to farm items to sell, some want to find deals to "flip", and some, like myself, do writs. There's no wrong way to do it!

I didn't see any forum warriors comment on anything you said. I do see though. Your supposed situation is extreme and no one said any of what you put there to you. Fact is no matter how fast your SSD is, if you even have one, the load screens of each character alone will be ca.2 mins in the games current state, which = 72 mins without even taking into consideration yet that you need time to actually craft. add on or not that takes time per char. There is no way you are just over an hour with all chars finished no matter how focused you are. Even so you still would need to have to farm some of those mats, meaning you don't need to buy the entire amount and you would have 2 accounts or servers to do it on. Problem solved. Every single one of my points was valid. Just because you don't like them and they don't fit into your stance doesn't change that.

So, while you are making assumptions... I run 2 instances of the game, so when one is in load screens, the other one I'm doing the writs on!!! I can complete each character in under 2 minutes, I've done a lot of writs. 36 x 2 = 72 minutes!

What I mean by "load screens are good" is that "I don't have to wait for the 2nd character to load in before my 1st account character is done" so for me good load screens means absolutely zero down time.

edit for math error... yikes.

(Hint: you are the forum warrior!)

which makes that even laggier and less believable. I am spot on. nice try at baiting though. You must not have a mirror handy. If you have no further points to add which are on topic, we're done here.

majulook wrote: »

The Guild Trader System is the biggest gold sink in the game.

What would replace the Gold Sink that the Trader Kiosk create each week?

There are 204 Guild Kiosks in the game not including Murkmier and Elsweyr.

So what 500,000 on average of per Kiosk to purchase them each week probably much more .

So 102,000,000 at a minimum each week removed from the game in just the cost of the Kiosks.

Maybe my numbers are of a bit off, but what would replace this as a gold sink???

A increase in the existing tax and fees on the sold items?
How much of a tax and fee increase would replace a weekly minimum of 102,000,000 gold.

Jayman1000 wrote: »

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

It's funny that this pointless thread is still going on. Bump it all you want, the guild traders aren't going anywhere. They should move this thread a "vent thread" section.

The thread is going strong because a lot of people find the subject interesting and feel strongly about it. It's a testament to the success that the game has in making it's players feel involved with the game. But I agree, I dont think guild traders are going away, thankfully.

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Where do you get the 102,000,000 figure from?

Jayman1000 wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

l

Jayman1000 wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

The Guild Trader System is the biggest gold sink in the game.

What would replace the Gold Sink that the Trader Kiosk create each week?

There are 204 Guild Kiosks in the game not including Murkmier and Elsweyr.

So what 500,000 on average of per Kiosk to purchase them each week probably much more .

So 102,000,000 at a minimum each week removed from the game in just the cost of the Kiosks.

Maybe my numbers are of a bit off, but what would replace this as a gold sink???

A increase in the existing tax and fees on the sold items?
How much of a tax and fee increase would replace a weekly minimum of 102,000,000 gold.

It's most likely much much more. A GM from a rawlkha guild published their weekly bid during the rawlkha guild trader troll dude's "event", so we have a number to go from and multiply up. The actual number is probably multiple hundreds of millions. Probably in excess of 300 million, that would not surprise me at all. The people advocating an end to the guild traders then suggest that to replace that huge gold sink we just raise taxes! oh great idea lol. More taxes, yay. What they dont realize is that how it is now it's the major players that by far and large pays for the guild trader bids. Replace that with taxes, and it's going to hit everyone equally hard, and that means especially the small sellers are gonna dish up a lot more than they are now.

Total tax rate would probably have to be upped from the current 8% to 15-20% to make up for lost trader bid. Who wants that, I sure as hell don't.

None of that is necessary. Many other gold sinks are already in the game, and ZOS can easily create new ones. Mounts, pets, new upgrades, cosmetics, .................. The possibilities are endless. This was mentioned earlier in this thread too. That is the least of the worries currently. Fixing the current corrupt system is, by far, more interesting and beneficial for everyone.

Yeah that's even worse. Significant taxes on everything, yikes.