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Anyone see a problem with a 21k whip?... *edit: I don’t see a problem anymore

  • BlackMadara
    BlackMadara
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    ecru wrote: »
    ecru wrote: »
    I'm eating 8-9k whips non stop from magdk's now with 30k resists. I don't know who thought this was a good idea, but I wouldn't expect this to last.

    Is that much different from taking similar damage numbers from cfrags or spectral bow? The new whip takes time to set up, and those running that morph lose the power lash heal

    Yes, because frags doesn't hit that hard and a bow proc takes more gcds.

    Lets see if that claim has substance. I put together the same template for each magicka class, DK, NB, and Sorc.

    The template is 5L-1M-1H Julianos, Bright throat, Blood spawn, protective jewels, full SD enchants, all prismatic enchants, spring loaded infusion drink, and a flame staff. All passives unlocked with basic PvP action bars.

    CPs 64 Elemental Expert and 56 Master-at-Arms.

    mDK Molten Whip - Base Tooltip 10223. Fully stacked damage (including added SD from Seething Fury stacks) 18357
    *note, the percentage increase for this skill is additive with other multipliers on the base damage of the skill.

    mSorc Crystal Fragments - Base Tooltip 16235. Procced instant frag damage 18537
    *note, assuming the 20% applies to the base damage of the skill, similar to the new whip

    mNB Merciless Resolve - Base Tooltip 20700

    So with the exact same builds, Frags does slightly more buffed damage that a stacked whip, and bow proc does a decently more damage than both. The trade offs are that Molten Whip is a consistent proc that takes 3 spell casted GCDs (meaning you spend magicka), Crystal Frags has a percentage chance to proc with an average of 3 spell casted GCDs, and Merciless Resolve is a consistent proc needing 1 spell casted GCD and 5 light attacks (5GCDs that don't need magicka usage) and comes with a defensive buff.

    This seems pretty darn similar to me.

  • zParallaxz
    zParallaxz
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    ecru wrote: »
    I'm eating 8-9k whips non stop from magdk's now with 30k resists. I don't know who thought this was a good idea, but I wouldn't expect this to last.

    Is that much different from taking similar damage numbers from cfrags or spectral bow? The new whip takes time to set up, and those running that morph lose the power lash heal

    He probably forgot to mention he’s probably vamp and I’m sure he doesn’t know what buffs or setup that dk was running.
  • LordTareq
    LordTareq
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    I can't believe this ability made it to live. I'm getting hit for >12.000 damage in no-CP by this morph. Literally no other instant cast ability hits that hard in PvP...
  • Sanguinor2
    Sanguinor2
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    LordTareq wrote: »
    I can't believe this ability made it to live. I'm getting hit for >12.000 damage in no-CP by this morph. Literally no other instant cast ability hits that hard in PvP...

    You are running magical resistance Right? And also crit resistance? And how hard do frags and bow procs hit you?
    Politeness is respecting others.
    Courage is doing what is fair.
    Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
    Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
    Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
    Honor is keeping ones word.
  • LordTareq
    LordTareq
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    Sanguinor2 wrote: »
    LordTareq wrote: »
    I can't believe this ability made it to live. I'm getting hit for >12.000 damage in no-CP by this morph. Literally no other instant cast ability hits that hard in PvP...

    You are running magical resistance Right? And also crit resistance? And how hard do frags and bow procs hit you?

    No-CP. A well placed buffed up frag hits me for 7-8k. Merciless resolve around the same.
  • Sanguinor2
    Sanguinor2
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    LordTareq wrote: »

    No-CP. A well placed buffed up frag hits me for 7-8k. Merciless resolve around the same.

    Kinda strange, from a mathematical standpoint merciless is supposed to hit harder than molten Whip if both have roughly the same offensive power and the target has the same defenses. And the Crystal frag proc is supposed to be at roughly the same Damage as molten Whip. Guess the mag dks you encountered built more into Damage? Otherwise merciless should hit the hardest and Whip and frag should be at roughly the same number.
    Edit: You a Vampire? Might explain it.
    Edited by Sanguinor2 on May 22, 2019 1:43AM
    Politeness is respecting others.
    Courage is doing what is fair.
    Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
    Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
    Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
    Honor is keeping ones word.
  • Savos_Saren
    Savos_Saren
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    ecru wrote: »
    ecru wrote: »
    I'm eating 8-9k whips non stop from magdk's now with 30k resists. I don't know who thought this was a good idea, but I wouldn't expect this to last.

    Is that much different from taking similar damage numbers from cfrags or spectral bow? The new whip takes time to set up, and those running that morph lose the power lash heal

    Yes, because frags doesn't hit that hard and a bow proc takes more gcds.

    Lets see if that claim has substance. I put together the same template for each magicka class, DK, NB, and Sorc.

    The template is 5L-1M-1H Julianos, Bright throat, Blood spawn, protective jewels, full SD enchants, all prismatic enchants, spring loaded infusion drink, and a flame staff. All passives unlocked with basic PvP action bars.

    CPs 64 Elemental Expert and 56 Master-at-Arms.

    mDK Molten Whip - Base Tooltip 10223. Fully stacked damage (including added SD from Seething Fury stacks) 18357
    *note, the percentage increase for this skill is additive with other multipliers on the base damage of the skill.

    mSorc Crystal Fragments - Base Tooltip 16235. Procced instant frag damage 18537
    *note, assuming the 20% applies to the base damage of the skill, similar to the new whip

    mNB Merciless Resolve - Base Tooltip 20700

    So with the exact same builds, Frags does slightly more buffed damage that a stacked whip, and bow proc does a decently more damage than both. The trade offs are that Molten Whip is a consistent proc that takes 3 spell casted GCDs (meaning you spend magicka), Crystal Frags has a percentage chance to proc with an average of 3 spell casted GCDs, and Merciless Resolve is a consistent proc needing 1 spell casted GCD and 5 light attacks (5GCDs that don't need magicka usage) and comes with a defensive buff.

    This seems pretty darn similar to me.

    100% this. I tried to explain this over and over. All the damage is simiar. One is RNG to proc (but can proc after a single skill), one takes five no-cost light attacks, and the other takes three specific skill line abilities to proc.

    Yes- it hits harder on a vampire- but so does DBoS. So does inferno staff abilities. And no one forces players to run vamp.
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • technohic
    technohic
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    Think the difference comes from being able to LOS the others while the DK out tanks many, and is in their face stacking DOTs and now has 1 if the best burst skills. Of course, compare to sorcs who are just as tanky these days, have delayed burst tgat lands with it along with a delayed execute; I guess it still doesn't stand out.
  • Savos_Saren
    Savos_Saren
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    technohic wrote: »
    Think the difference comes from being able to LOS the others while the DK out tanks many, and is in their face stacking DOTs and now has 1 if the best burst skills. Of course, compare to sorcs who are just as tanky these days, have delayed burst tgat lands with it along with a delayed execute; I guess it still doesn't stand out.

    Again- NBs and Sorcs get to stack their powerful ranged burst with their ranged executes. And both have some of the best disengagement tools (streak and cloak).
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • Druid40
    Druid40
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    Too much to read. But, I am assuming someone is selling a $21,000 whip online. Is it made from gold and silk?
  • Mintaka5
    Mintaka5
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    Yes especially with that low cost, and what seems to have much higher range than defined in tooltip
  • Banana
    Banana
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    Nightblades and sorcerers need something to complain about
  • Anhedonie
    Anhedonie
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    Banana wrote: »
    Nightblades and sorcerers need something to complain about

    My guildmate always said that sorcs players suffer from chronic whining. Now I kinda get where he is coming from.


    Edited by Anhedonie on May 26, 2019 8:36AM
    Profanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    After reading the changes to Molten Whip I could see it being a really strong choice for PvE, but never really considered it for PvP since Power-Lash is a good heal. However, yesterday I ran into a magDK running Molten Whip and all I can say is that boi do they hit like a truck.

    I was taking 6k Molten Whips (crits) left and right. If I remember correctly I was sitting at around 38k spell-resistance (-5,2k due to elemental drain) with 5,1k crit resistance. So magDK got a really nice buff with Elswyer.
  • StShoot
    StShoot
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    After reading the changes to Molten Whip I could see it being a really strong choice for PvE, but never really considered it for PvP since Power-Lash is a good heal. However, yesterday I ran into a magDK running Molten Whip and all I can say is that boi do they hit like a truck.

    I was taking 6k Molten Whips (crits) left and right. If I remember correctly I was sitting at around 38k spell-resistance (-5,2k due to elemental drain) with 5,1k crit resistance. So magDK got a really nice buff with Elswyer.

    Yeah that new whip hits like a truck, i got 7k crits in cyro(on rather tanky targets), i always try to get the 3 stacks before i use my dragon leap and than kill the enemy with the prok when he is on the ground . I even tested it with a full balorgh stack, i think that is as close as you can get to a oneshot while maintaining some kind of survivability
    But i still prefer the powerlash, moltenwhip just feels realy akward for a spamable, since i have to spam other abilitys to get the most out of it.
    Edited by StShoot on May 29, 2019 8:35AM
  • TrinityBreaker
    TrinityBreaker
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    Sanguinor2 wrote: »
    :D
    I show my flame lash tool tip its 35K. Garbage. A skill cheese wings with petrify and crying in forums its fine. DKs are able to solo even toughest content in the game with ease . DK needs some serious nerf long time ago .

    Link me dk soloing vet hm Trials pls o:) im also Pretty sure that sorc and nightblade have higher vma scores than dk not 100% confident tho.
    Cheesiest class for cheap noobest streamers and fake shameless pros in PVP. Garbage. Still DK is OP way too much. Do want DKs stream roll all BGs ? One noob streamer tells wings has to do more. Which world these garbages are coming from. ESO only game where bunch of noobs sitting as class reps and giving fake opinions that suits their own interest for their lack of skills .

    Another garbage is werewolf and warden. Just because of ESO they are here for so long and ESO carrying them . If other game they will be crushed with all eyes closed in no time. Excellent game balance. This the best game balance that noob class rep can come up with. :D ROFL all day.

    Other garbage are Orc, Warden, werewolf. I will not take anyone playing them serious and vomit garbage.

    We have to deal with this garbage everyday in PVP. Stam DK on orc or argonian set up is super cheese. Its very hard to die even if you do lot of mistakes.

    VMS scores is nothing with PVP or survivablity or noob cheese. Its all about noob friendly. DKs can solo Vet dungeons with ease which is meant not to be soloed. DKs survive longer with producing dps on par other classes. Lets Sorc and Nb survive like DKs. First one is the ultimate one made me laugh whole day. Blackrose prison :D:D:D@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_GaryA . Come on where is the ZOS class reps and balance team ? Asking opinions with noob streamers how to buff DK, Wardens and ORc more and nerf already under-powered classes ? You are expecting other people to get 4 of these in every BGs and kill them ? Or it wont stop until someone make fun of vet 12 man trials ?
    My only question is ZOs put any intelligence or common sense in balancing the game with real data ? Ever since class rep program started, Game lopsidedly favored only one group.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYJ_Nw7UZHU :D:D

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x61MoF4hvw

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWVk9SZCTqc


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_24HKUpkmzo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pjq5pvrcpQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8vUwWeeFww

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQnsvLte6CI

    You can solo vet dungeons on any class. I've done them with a saptank NB, and my main is a mDK. You just need to know how to play and build.

    If you want to speak on the balance of classes for solo PvE, maelstrom arena scores are probably the most objective measurement. DKs do not score that highly compared to other classes.

    You seem to have a lot of bias. You should attempt to be more objective in your views.

    You know I soloed cloudrest Vet trial after I soloed vet blackrose prison. You have to trust me. I did with my sorc tank.
    Dont come up with jokes that I soloed vet blackrose prison with NB tanks.
    Maelstorm arena scores is not the measurement for how garbage class balance is. It doesnt show how much a class can survive and dps at same time.

    Video of the entire encounter or it didn't happen.
    Ebonheart for life.
    Xbox NA
    I am Dog Star.

    Khajiit Stam Sorc - Ji'saad Ranajiradh AR 30
    Khajiit Mag DK - Kesjhad
    Khajiit Magblade - Ji'sava Ak'nir
    Fat Khajiit Stamplar - Dro'haniAk'nir - AR 36
    Khajiit Stam Dk - Diego Ri'jhad - AR 49
    Khajiit Magplar - Dro'nara Ak'nir
    Khajiit StamBlade - Ri'artharr Ak'nir
    Fat Khajiit Stamden - Dro'hani Warbreaker
    Argonian Stam DK - Tiberius Demetros
    Khajiit Stamplar - Diëgo Ri'jhad
    Fat Khajiit Stam DK - Drö'hani Ak'nir/Dances-With-Alkosh
    Khajiit Magden - Arctic Mayhem


  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    Druid40 wrote: »
    Too much to read. But, I am assuming someone is selling a $21,000 whip online. Is it made from gold and silk?

    Too funny to go ignored
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
    1300+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er

    Waffennacht' Builds
  • MentalxHammer
    MentalxHammer
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    The one post per day thread gotta love it, for those of you playing magDK you should try empowering chains, you can rotate an empowered LA into leap, empowered LA into fully proc'd whip and one shot folks. Also it stacks seething fury, gives you sick mobility and is great as an execute as it is undodgable. I love magDK but I've never had as much fun as I am now using the skill.
  • TriangularChicken
    TriangularChicken
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    I do see a problem with whip.. yesterday I got hit by a 12k whip in no cp..that was with good resistances and 2 protective glyphs...it's a melee skill and i'm fine with it hitting harder than bow proc or frags..but 12k in no cp? that's a bit ridiculous...
  • BlackMadara
    BlackMadara
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    I do see a problem with whip.. yesterday I got hit by a 12k whip in no cp..that was with good resistances and 2 protective glyphs...it's a melee skill and i'm fine with it hitting harder than bow proc or frags..but 12k in no cp? that's a bit ridiculous...

    Check my post above. It reaches similar damage numbers as frag and bow proc. The only extra modifier it can get is the engulfing flames debuff.

    You must've been debuffed and hit by a high damage spec.
    Edited by BlackMadara on May 31, 2019 4:41PM
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