Anyone see a problem with a 21k whip?... *edit: I don’t see a problem anymore

SkysOutThizeOut

Edit* I no longer see an issue with molten whip.

Savos_Saren

Have you tried it in PTS yet? You have to build specifically for that and use a three step combo to proc it. As opposed to any other class that can just spam their execute when a target is below ##%.

Edit: Also to point out that it's melee based. Meaning that ranged builds (ie Sorcs, NBs) can hit you with hard hitting procs AND ranged executes from 28+ meters away.

Siohwenoeht

It's fun, but @Savos_Saren is right, you have to have the right build and it's kinda niche. But again, fun.

Anhedonie

Good luck landing one in pvp

MartiniDaniels

Anhedonie wrote: »

Good luck landing one in pvp

Lol, good luck getting off the fossilize?

WatchYourSixx

You can stack 3 stacks really easy by spamming inferno... Not hard to stack it then fossilize then burst for huge damage

Mitaka211

Magsorcs can obliterate other people from a long distance with 0 to no skill , tbh this whip doesn't sound as bad.The games balance is already in the gutter so why not run with it lol.

ESO_Nightingale

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Have you tried it in PTS yet? You have to build specifically for that and use a three step combo to proc it. As opposed to any other class that can just spam their execute when a target is below ##%.

Edit: Also to point out that it's melee based. Meaning that ranged builds (ie Sorcs, NBs) can hit you with hard hitting procs AND ranged executes from 28+ meters away.

i'd love to spam bear claw

Vapirko

I’m more excited for the new dragon fire scales morph just in terms of it being a cool looking and fun skill now. Especially since we can now get snare immunity and other useful things from RAT. I think I’d be unlikely to do away with the heal morph of whip for solo and really small scale play. My damage as a mag DK isn’t exactly suffering right now and I don’t see changing out other skills I like to make this whip effective. But I haven’t tested it in duels yet. I’ll prob mess around once it goes live because that’s some insane damage.

Baphomet

So now whip has about the same tooltip damage as the other classes have had on their class abilities for a long time and necros have on blastbones - seems fair enough.

Bergzorn

Please, mistress, not the whip again! I'll behave! I'll behave myself!

BlackMadara

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

I get there is no heal associated with this version of the whip, but does this 21k whip get buffed to 33% making it hit like 31k? and If so... that'd be like 38kish on vamps... half it for cyro and it's still 19k before resistances and without critting... Between brp resto, cauterize, embers, coag, and fragmented... it would seem healing will not be an issue.

That 21k tooltip should be with Seething Fury stacks, so it already has the 99% increase. The new whip turns a spammable into the damage equivalent of drags or bow proc for a DK.

heng14rwb17_ESO

GO DK OR GO CRY !

technohic

I pretty much have each class to see how things shake out. ZOS does some changes that are not thought through, or just are unable to see how it will go. To be fair; we dont always see it ourselves.

I wont usually play the most OP class and abilities, but the option is there if its blatant to where you dont have a choice to stay competitive otherwise

Savos_Saren

Vapirko wrote: »

I’m more excited for the new dragon fire scales morph just in terms of it being a cool looking and fun skill now. Especially since we can now get snare immunity and other useful things from RAT. I think I’d be unlikely to do away with the heal morph of whip for solo and really small scale play. My damage as a mag DK isn’t exactly suffering right now and I don’t see changing out other skills I like to make this whip effective. But I haven’t tested it in duels yet. I’ll prob mess around once it goes live because that’s some insane damage.

@Vapirko

Watch out for those Dragon Fire Scales. A Templar would love to pop you with an Eclipse and watch you kill yourself. I think ZOS fixed Volatile Armor so that it doesn't reflect back at you- but I'm pretty sure DFS and FoO still pops back.

SkysOutThizeOut

@BlackMadara @Savos_Saren do you only get the 33% if you get 3 ardent flame abilities off first? Or only need to get 1 off to get the 33%? And that’s not so bad anymore if 21k is buffed with seething fury especially without the huge heal from lash.

Stibbons

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

I’m more excited for the new dragon fire scales morph just in terms of it being a cool looking and fun skill now. Especially since we can now get snare immunity and other useful things from RAT. I think I’d be unlikely to do away with the heal morph of whip for solo and really small scale play. My damage as a mag DK isn’t exactly suffering right now and I don’t see changing out other skills I like to make this whip effective. But I haven’t tested it in duels yet. I’ll prob mess around once it goes live because that’s some insane damage.

@Vapirko

Watch out for those Dragon Fire Scales. A Templar would love to pop you with an Eclipse and watch you kill yourself. I think ZOS fixed Volatile Armor so that it doesn't reflect back at you- but I'm pretty sure DFS and FoO still pops back.

Sure this can happen once in pvp/wvw in 7 hours. So scary

technohic

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

I’m more excited for the new dragon fire scales morph just in terms of it being a cool looking and fun skill now. Especially since we can now get snare immunity and other useful things from RAT. I think I’d be unlikely to do away with the heal morph of whip for solo and really small scale play. My damage as a mag DK isn’t exactly suffering right now and I don’t see changing out other skills I like to make this whip effective. But I haven’t tested it in duels yet. I’ll prob mess around once it goes live because that’s some insane damage.

@Vapirko

Watch out for those Dragon Fire Scales. A Templar would love to pop you with an Eclipse and watch you kill yourself. I think ZOS fixed Volatile Armor so that it doesn't reflect back at you- but I'm pretty sure DFS and FoO still pops back.

They fixed that.

Savos_Saren

The 21k screen shot that you have is most likely from three hits of an Ardent Flame ability bringing the whip up to 21k.

Let's say that you use Innate (400 spell dmg to whip) plus Silks (400 spell dmg to fire abilities) for a flat base value (no procs like BSW) for your whip. 2 spell damage and 1 recovery enchant for jewelry. Mage Mundus. Light armor on a Dunmer. Here are the whip values:

Unbuffed: 9758
Buffed with Molten Armaments: 10679
Buffed with Molten Armaments and three hits of Ardent Flame abilities: 19321

So Dunmer + Silks + Innate + 2 spell damage enchants + buffed still doesn't equal to that 21k screenshot. Again, I used Silks and Innate for the flat base value.

But, of course, someone could go even higher with a BSW proc, all damage enchants, the Apprentice mundus, etc... but your recovery/survivability would suffer.

I can also get on the PTS with a Dunmer Sorc/NB and use Innate + War Maiden + full damage enchants with the Apprentice, etc and show you a ridiculously high Crystal Frags/Spectral Bow proc. But that doesn't mean that anyone will actually wear any of those sets.

White wabbit

God its just going to be Dk's everywhere

Galarthor

White wabbit wrote: »

God its just going to be Dk's everywhere

The years of forum propaganda claiming they are completely crippled finally paid off I guess.

Nerftheforums

Oh, here's where my merciless damage ended up! Good to know...

Savos_Saren

...and here we go. A bunch of people rushing in to make comments about a single screenshot of a proc. I guess I need to go and make screenshots of every high Crystal Frag/Spectral Bow/Shalk/Blast Bones/Dark Flare proc and scream that it's unfair.

Edit: I forgot to add Dark Flare in that. Actually, I would like to test each build's niche proc and see who has the highest. I bet I could use flat rate sets (Innate + Slimecraw + Sun/War Maiden/Swamp Raider/Automaton) to see which abilities might be OP. Then we could debate who should be nerfed... especially if you can use some of those skills from range and combine them with an execute.

Xvorg

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

You can stack 3 stacks really easy by spamming inferno... Not hard to stack it then fossilize then burst for huge damage

Dear magplars, you know what you have to do in this case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZtfsfoKSB0

Xvorg

Savos_Saren wrote: »

...and here we go. A bunch of people rushing in to make comments about a single screenshot of a proc. I guess I need to go and make screenshots of every high Crystal Frag/Spectral Bow/Shalk/Blast Bones/Dark Flare proc and scream that it's unfair.

Edit: I forgot to add Dark Flare in that. Actually, I would like to test each build's niche proc and see who has the highest. I bet I could use flat rate sets (Innate + Slimecraw + Sun/War Maiden/Swamp Raider/Automaton) to see which abilities might be OP. Then we could debate who should be nerfed... especially if you can use some of those skills from range and combine them with an execute.

I'd love to see (and kill) all those mDKs next patch. Currently I'm having fun with my sDK, despite he still lacks a leg and a hand.

Davadin

Xvorg wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

...and here we go. A bunch of people rushing in to make comments about a single screenshot of a proc. I guess I need to go and make screenshots of every high Crystal Frag/Spectral Bow/Shalk/Blast Bones/Dark Flare proc and scream that it's unfair.

Edit: I forgot to add Dark Flare in that. Actually, I would like to test each build's niche proc and see who has the highest. I bet I could use flat rate sets (Innate + Slimecraw + Sun/War Maiden/Swamp Raider/Automaton) to see which abilities might be OP. Then we could debate who should be nerfed... especially if you can use some of those skills from range and combine them with an execute.

I'd love to see (and kill) all those mDKs next patch. Currently I'm having fun with my sDK, despite he still lacks a leg and a hand.

im having fun with mine in Live server.

how are your bars as sDK in PTS/Elswyr?

BlackMadara

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

@BlackMadara @Savos_Saren do you only get the 33% if you get 3 ardent flame abilities off first? Or only need to get 1 off to get the 33%? And that’s not so bad anymore if 21k is buffed with seething fury especially without the huge heal from lash.

You get 1 stack of the 33% buff per ardent flame ability cast. So a common combo could be empowering chains > engulfing flames > burning embers > fossilize > ult > whip for a big combo. That set up takes a while though.

Skysenzz

I mean... I've seen some tooltip on Crystal fragmen that reached 40, that is a ranged ability. Here you have a melee skill that if you want to reach the best damage you would need to cast 3other skills first... It's more of a niche skill than anything else. Not broken or anything imo, just back in the meta :thonk:

Joy_Division

Savos_Saren wrote: »

...and here we go. A bunch of people rushing in to make comments about a single screenshot of a proc. I guess I need to go and make screenshots of every high Crystal Frag/Spectral Bow/Shalk/Blast Bones/Dark Flare proc and scream that it's unfair.

Edit: I forgot to add Dark Flare in that. Actually, I would like to test each build's niche proc and see who has the highest. I bet I could use flat rate sets (Innate + Slimecraw + Sun/War Maiden/Swamp Raider/Automaton) to see which abilities might be OP. Then we could debate who should be nerfed... especially if you can use some of those skills from range and combine them with an execute.

Generally I am sympathetic to the plight of DKs because the class sucked for at least two years, but you're getting *really* desperate trying to compare Dark Flare's "we nerfed the damage by 37% in exchange for a 0.1 second faster cast time" (which doesn;t even work, the cast time is still the same, but the damage still reduced) to the new Molten Whip.

Savos_Saren

Joy_Division wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

...and here we go. A bunch of people rushing in to make comments about a single screenshot of a proc. I guess I need to go and make screenshots of every high Crystal Frag/Spectral Bow/Shalk/Blast Bones/Dark Flare proc and scream that it's unfair.

Edit: I forgot to add Dark Flare in that. Actually, I would like to test each build's niche proc and see who has the highest. I bet I could use flat rate sets (Innate + Slimecraw + Sun/War Maiden/Swamp Raider/Automaton) to see which abilities might be OP. Then we could debate who should be nerfed... especially if you can use some of those skills from range and combine them with an execute.

Generally I am sympathetic to the plight of DKs because the class sucked for at least two years, but you're getting *really* desperate trying to compare Dark Flare's "we nerfed the damage by 37% in exchange for a 0.1 second faster cast time" (which doesn;t even work, the cast time is still the same, but the damage still reduced) to the new Molten Whip.

@Joy_Division
Don’t get my post wrong, bud. I 110% agree Dark Flare was over nerfed (I’ve made plenty of comments about it in other threads). I’m just listing abilities that could be considered OP if you build directly toward the highest damage possible while ignoring common sense.

I honestly don’t think any nerf was necessary on Dark Flare for the .1 sec “buff”. It’s hard enough to land it in a laggy fight and I hope ZOS reverts the nerf.

Tommy_The_Gun

Too early to say... but I just hope we wont end up with a class that is BiS for Tanking & BiS for Damage...