Anyone see a problem with a 21k whip?... *edit: I don’t see a problem anymore

Xvorg

Davadin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

...and here we go. A bunch of people rushing in to make comments about a single screenshot of a proc. I guess I need to go and make screenshots of every high Crystal Frag/Spectral Bow/Shalk/Blast Bones/Dark Flare proc and scream that it's unfair.

Edit: I forgot to add Dark Flare in that. Actually, I would like to test each build's niche proc and see who has the highest. I bet I could use flat rate sets (Innate + Slimecraw + Sun/War Maiden/Swamp Raider/Automaton) to see which abilities might be OP. Then we could debate who should be nerfed... especially if you can use some of those skills from range and combine them with an execute.

I'd love to see (and kill) all those mDKs next patch. Currently I'm having fun with my sDK, despite he still lacks a leg and a hand.

im having fun with mine in Live server.

how are your bars as sDK in PTS/Elswyr?

Till know, I'm going with Pierce armor, foss, vigor, empowering chains, wings UDBoS on live. Next patch I'll switch wings for RaT

Don't want to jump into the noxious waggon (pun intended), but if I do it, I'll just trade PA for it and maybe RaT for whip. In any case I don't like much that playing style

backbar: Injection, mist, GDB, Igneous, Volatile U Corrosive armor.

JumpmanLane

Savos_Saren wrote: »

The 21k screen shot that you have is most likely from three hits of an Ardent Flame ability bringing the whip up to 21k.

Let's say that you use Innate (400 spell dmg to whip) plus Silks (400 spell dmg to fire abilities) for a flat base value (no procs like BSW) for your whip. 2 spell damage and 1 recovery enchant for jewelry. Mage Mundus. Light armor on a Dunmer. Here are the whip values:

Unbuffed: 9758
Buffed with Molten Armaments: 10679
Buffed with Molten Armaments and three hits of Ardent Flame abilities: 19321

So Dunmer + Silks + Innate + 2 spell damage enchants + buffed still doesn't equal to that 21k screenshot. Again, I used Silks and Innate for the flat base value.

But, of course, someone could go even higher with a BSW proc, all damage enchants, the Apprentice mundus, etc... but your recovery/survivability would suffer.

I can also get on the PTS with a Dunmer Sorc/NB and use Innate + War Maiden + full damage enchants with the Apprentice, etc and show you a ridiculously high Crystal Frags/Spectral Bow proc. But that doesn't mean that anyone will actually wear any of those sets.

Neither Sun nor Axiom show up on your tooltips though. They are expressed in damage done however. FYI lol.

So, you’d have to add like 800 spell damage to just your unbuffed 9700, add 20% for Major Sorcery, then add whatever for the stacks to get the actual damage. If tool tips say 19k I’d be surprised if the actual damage done wasn’t MORE than 21k if you add 800 spell damage.

ccmedaddy

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

The 21k screen shot that you have is most likely from three hits of an Ardent Flame ability bringing the whip up to 21k.

Let's say that you use Innate (400 spell dmg to whip) plus Silks (400 spell dmg to fire abilities) for a flat base value (no procs like BSW) for your whip. 2 spell damage and 1 recovery enchant for jewelry. Mage Mundus. Light armor on a Dunmer. Here are the whip values:

Unbuffed: 9758
Buffed with Molten Armaments: 10679
Buffed with Molten Armaments and three hits of Ardent Flame abilities: 19321

So Dunmer + Silks + Innate + 2 spell damage enchants + buffed still doesn't equal to that 21k screenshot. Again, I used Silks and Innate for the flat base value.

But, of course, someone could go even higher with a BSW proc, all damage enchants, the Apprentice mundus, etc... but your recovery/survivability would suffer.

I can also get on the PTS with a Dunmer Sorc/NB and use Innate + War Maiden + full damage enchants with the Apprentice, etc and show you a ridiculously high Crystal Frags/Spectral Bow proc. But that doesn't mean that anyone will actually wear any of those sets.

Neither Sun nor Axiom show up on your tooltips though. They are expressed in damage done however. FYI lol.

So, you’d have to add like 800 spell damage to just your unbuffed 9700, add 20% for Major Sorcery, then add whatever for the stacks to get the actual damage. If tool tips say 19k I’d be surprised if the actual damage done wasn’t MORE than 21k if you add 800 spell damage.

Wait really? I thought Axiom/Sun's 5pc bonuses do get reflected in the tooltips, just not in your character sheet.

Savos_Saren

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

The 21k screen shot that you have is most likely from three hits of an Ardent Flame ability bringing the whip up to 21k.

Let's say that you use Innate (400 spell dmg to whip) plus Silks (400 spell dmg to fire abilities) for a flat base value (no procs like BSW) for your whip. 2 spell damage and 1 recovery enchant for jewelry. Mage Mundus. Light armor on a Dunmer. Here are the whip values:

Unbuffed: 9758
Buffed with Molten Armaments: 10679
Buffed with Molten Armaments and three hits of Ardent Flame abilities: 19321

So Dunmer + Silks + Innate + 2 spell damage enchants + buffed still doesn't equal to that 21k screenshot. Again, I used Silks and Innate for the flat base value.

But, of course, someone could go even higher with a BSW proc, all damage enchants, the Apprentice mundus, etc... but your recovery/survivability would suffer.

I can also get on the PTS with a Dunmer Sorc/NB and use Innate + War Maiden + full damage enchants with the Apprentice, etc and show you a ridiculously high Crystal Frags/Spectral Bow proc. But that doesn't mean that anyone will actually wear any of those sets.

Neither Sun nor Axiom show up on your tooltips though. They are expressed in damage done however. FYI lol.

So, you’d have to add like 800 spell damage to just your unbuffed 9700, add 20% for Major Sorcery, then add whatever for the stacks to get the actual damage. If tool tips say 19k I’d be surprised if the actual damage done wasn’t MORE than 21k if you add 800 spell damage.

I know that. The tooltips do reflect the 800 extra damage and i confirmed the damage on a target dummy in the PTS. It isn’t more. No need to be surprised, though.

BlackMadara

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

The 21k screen shot that you have is most likely from three hits of an Ardent Flame ability bringing the whip up to 21k.

Let's say that you use Innate (400 spell dmg to whip) plus Silks (400 spell dmg to fire abilities) for a flat base value (no procs like BSW) for your whip. 2 spell damage and 1 recovery enchant for jewelry. Mage Mundus. Light armor on a Dunmer. Here are the whip values:

Unbuffed: 9758
Buffed with Molten Armaments: 10679
Buffed with Molten Armaments and three hits of Ardent Flame abilities: 19321

So Dunmer + Silks + Innate + 2 spell damage enchants + buffed still doesn't equal to that 21k screenshot. Again, I used Silks and Innate for the flat base value.

But, of course, someone could go even higher with a BSW proc, all damage enchants, the Apprentice mundus, etc... but your recovery/survivability would suffer.

I can also get on the PTS with a Dunmer Sorc/NB and use Innate + War Maiden + full damage enchants with the Apprentice, etc and show you a ridiculously high Crystal Frags/Spectral Bow proc. But that doesn't mean that anyone will actually wear any of those sets.

Neither Sun nor Axiom show up on your tooltips though. They are expressed in damage done however. FYI lol.

So, you’d have to add like 800 spell damage to just your unbuffed 9700, add 20% for Major Sorcery, then add whatever for the stacks to get the actual damage. If tool tips say 19k I’d be surprised if the actual damage done wasn’t MORE than 21k if you add 800 spell damage.

It is reflected on tooltips, just not the character sheet

JumpmanLane

ccmedaddy wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

The 21k screen shot that you have is most likely from three hits of an Ardent Flame ability bringing the whip up to 21k.

Let's say that you use Innate (400 spell dmg to whip) plus Silks (400 spell dmg to fire abilities) for a flat base value (no procs like BSW) for your whip. 2 spell damage and 1 recovery enchant for jewelry. Mage Mundus. Light armor on a Dunmer. Here are the whip values:

Unbuffed: 9758
Buffed with Molten Armaments: 10679
Buffed with Molten Armaments and three hits of Ardent Flame abilities: 19321

So Dunmer + Silks + Innate + 2 spell damage enchants + buffed still doesn't equal to that 21k screenshot. Again, I used Silks and Innate for the flat base value.

But, of course, someone could go even higher with a BSW proc, all damage enchants, the Apprentice mundus, etc... but your recovery/survivability would suffer.

I can also get on the PTS with a Dunmer Sorc/NB and use Innate + War Maiden + full damage enchants with the Apprentice, etc and show you a ridiculously high Crystal Frags/Spectral Bow proc. But that doesn't mean that anyone will actually wear any of those sets.

Neither Sun nor Axiom show up on your tooltips though. They are expressed in damage done however. FYI lol.

So, you’d have to add like 800 spell damage to just your unbuffed 9700, add 20% for Major Sorcery, then add whatever for the stacks to get the actual damage. If tool tips say 19k I’d be surprised if the actual damage done wasn’t MORE than 21k if you add 800 spell damage.

Wait really? I thought Axiom/Sun's 5pc bonuses do get reflected in the tooltips, just not in your character sheet.

Neither Axiom nor Sun’s spell damage is reflected on your character sheet under spell damage. They are reflected as damage in the end.

Savos_Saren wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

The 21k screen shot that you have is most likely from three hits of an Ardent Flame ability bringing the whip up to 21k.

Let's say that you use Innate (400 spell dmg to whip) plus Silks (400 spell dmg to fire abilities) for a flat base value (no procs like BSW) for your whip. 2 spell damage and 1 recovery enchant for jewelry. Mage Mundus. Light armor on a Dunmer. Here are the whip values:

Unbuffed: 9758
Buffed with Molten Armaments: 10679
Buffed with Molten Armaments and three hits of Ardent Flame abilities: 19321

So Dunmer + Silks + Innate + 2 spell damage enchants + buffed still doesn't equal to that 21k screenshot. Again, I used Silks and Innate for the flat base value.

But, of course, someone could go even higher with a BSW proc, all damage enchants, the Apprentice mundus, etc... but your recovery/survivability would suffer.

I can also get on the PTS with a Dunmer Sorc/NB and use Innate + War Maiden + full damage enchants with the Apprentice, etc and show you a ridiculously high Crystal Frags/Spectral Bow proc. But that doesn't mean that anyone will actually wear any of those sets.

Neither Sun nor Axiom show up on your tooltips though. They are expressed in damage done however. FYI lol.

So, you’d have to add like 800 spell damage to just your unbuffed 9700, add 20% for Major Sorcery, then add whatever for the stacks to get the actual damage. If tool tips say 19k I’d be surprised if the actual damage done wasn’t MORE than 21k if you add 800 spell damage.

I know that. The tooltips do reflect the 800 extra damage and i confirmed the damage on a target dummy in the PTS. It isn’t more. No need to be surprised, though.

Axiom’s and Sun’s spell damage are reflected in the final damage (if not the tooltips). If the tooltips said 19k I’m sure I could hit 21 or higher. Axiom Sun, all spell damage, Berserker on a staff, enough in spell erosion to match spinner’s spell pen. Arcane and all spell damage glyphs 1 piece kena, 1 piece Balorgh or 1 piece kena, 1 piece domihaus or even 2 piece kena. Could probably hit higher than 21 k.

Would I run this though? Yes and and no. I have before in open world Cyro against pugs. There’s enough of a lull in those kinds of Zerg surfing fights to get by with the horrid sustain. However in a 1v1 against any fool not panicking, it’s not a well rounded enough build to consistently expect to win.

High damage like that is enough to kill someone or have them reset the fight or even run away. Usually you’d get out resourced.

You don’t need an awful lot of damage to kill a ton of people in Cyro. I go for highest damage I can squeeze out of my builds starting with ALL damage, then adding as much sustain and mitigation as I can wherever I can. Most folks start with high mitigation and go from there. I always start with all damage.

lol I used to run 1 kena 1 Balorgh Spinners Julianos all magicka arcane spell damage apprentice and MOPPED Fools lol.

Geeze I was hitting 20k FLAME LASHES and 25k powerlashes on live against NPcs.

Rex-Umbra

MDK gods

Savos_Saren

Again- you’re probably proving my point. You could stack all damage enchants, damage mundus, nirned weapons, beserk enchants on any class to have a ridiculously high lash/frag/spectral bow/shalk/blast bone/dark flare... but it’s not feasible.

Also, the fact that you can get a lash up to 19-21k is still constrained to melee range without any form of execute. If you took another class and stacked toward the highest frag/spectral bow/flare you can still hit a target from 28+ meters AND combine it with a ranged execute.

JumpmanLane

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Again- you’re probably proving my point. You could stack all damage enchants, damage mundus, nirned weapons, beserk enchants on any class to have a ridiculously high lash/frag/spectral bow/shalk/blast bone/dark flare... but it’s not feasible.

Also, the fact that you can get a lash up to 19-21k is still constrained to melee range without any form of execute. If you took another class and stacked toward the highest frag/spectral bow/flare you can still hit a target from 28+ meters AND combine it with a ranged execute.

And that’s where you’re absolutely right. You don’t need that much damage to kill people in Cyro. You’re right about Axiom and Sun showing up as damage on the character sheet. The 9.7k seemed unusually low to me but guy had a recovery glyph on 1 jewelry piece.

Though a friend of mine once told me DAMAGE is your execute on MagDk so you sorta have to build for it.

(Had 40-42 k leaps with 18-19k pen lol. 50% crits and NO SUSTAIN and 15 k GLASS CANNON resists lol). ...hit HARD tho.

Dracane

Savos_Saren wrote: »

The 21k screen shot that you have is most likely from three hits of an Ardent Flame ability bringing the whip up to 21k.

Let's say that you use Innate (400 spell dmg to whip) plus Silks (400 spell dmg to fire abilities) for a flat base value (no procs like BSW) for your whip. 2 spell damage and 1 recovery enchant for jewelry. Mage Mundus. Light armor on a Dunmer. Here are the whip values:

Unbuffed: 9758
Buffed with Molten Armaments: 10679
Buffed with Molten Armaments and three hits of Ardent Flame abilities: 19321

So Dunmer + Silks + Innate + 2 spell damage enchants + buffed still doesn't equal to that 21k screenshot. Again, I used Silks and Innate for the flat base value.

But, of course, someone could go even higher with a BSW proc, all damage enchants, the Apprentice mundus, etc... but your recovery/survivability would suffer.

I can also get on the PTS with a Dunmer Sorc/NB and use Innate + War Maiden + full damage enchants with the Apprentice, etc and show you a ridiculously high Crystal Frags/Spectral Bow proc. But that doesn't mean that anyone will actually wear any of those sets.

It's not like 19k already is twice as much as all other spammable, especially those ranged spammables that you seem to fear so much.

You are acting like it would take a scientist to use 3 ardent flame abilities. It's actually childsplay to maintain this. And don't come at me with your range-melee argument. You should know how easy it is to close gaps in pvp. Range barely matters.
I hope though, that many Dks will abuse the hell ouf of this, so that perhaps more people get rid of their vampirism, so we have less fools being carried by this broken undeath passive.

Savos_Saren

@Dracane it isn’t a 19k spammable, though. You have to set it up with three attacks before you can use it. Once you use it- then you have to set it up again with three attacks.

Crystal Frags proc isn’t a spammable. But you can get it to proc within one attack. (RNG)

Spectral Bow isn’t a spammable- but you can get it to proc after 5 light attacks (cheaper than three class skills attacks).

And you think that Crystal Frags and Spectral Bow only read 9.5k when they proc? Whip is definitely not “twice as much.”

And, again, these other classes have a ranged execute that they can use in conjunction with their hard hitting skills. But you don’t bother acknowledging that?

Thoragaal

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

I get there is no heal associated with this version of the whip, but does this 21k whip get buffed to 33% making it hit like 31k? and If so... that'd be like 38kish on vamps... half it for cyro and it's still 19k before resistances and without critting... Between brp resto, cauterize, embers, coag, and fragmented... it would seem healing will not be an issue.

Is that a tooltip dmg or actual damage output on a dummy?
You have to take into consideration the mitigation the enemy player (vampire) has. The whip gets mitigated by spell resistance (both Elemental Expert and Spell Shield CPs), it's a direct damage ability so it's further mitigated by CPs like Ironclad and in pvp all damage (like you said yourself) is already reduced by 50%.

So 38k on a vamp is 19k in Cyro. If you have 19200 spell resist it's reduced by 30% (down to 13300 dmg), if you have 72p into Ironclad it's reduced by another 23% (down to 10241 dmg) and if you have 49 points in Elemental Defender it's reduced by another 11% (down to 9114 damage).

So it's not a 38k hit on a vampire. It's more like a 10k hit. You can block the attack for even more mitigation.

Juhasow

Anhedonie wrote: »

Good luck landing one in pvp

In only a dk would've undodgable unblockable cheap CC , or an AoE undodgable ulti with high tooltip and stun. Oh wait.

psychotic13

Savos_Saren wrote: »

...and here we go. A bunch of people rushing in to make comments about a single screenshot of a proc. I guess I need to go and make screenshots of every high Crystal Frag/Spectral Bow/Shalk/Blast Bones/Dark Flare proc and scream that it's unfair.

Edit: I forgot to add Dark Flare in that. Actually, I would like to test each build's niche proc and see who has the highest. I bet I could use flat rate sets (Innate + Slimecraw + Sun/War Maiden/Swamp Raider/Automaton) to see which abilities might be OP. Then we could debate who should be nerfed... especially if you can use some of those skills from range and combine them with an execute.

None of the abilities you listed are spammable like lash, youre comparing apples and oranges.

labambao

Rookie numbers. I got 25k whip in pts. Some guy got 32k, but there was some glasscannon build.

Dracane

Savos_Saren wrote: »

@Dracane it isn’t a 19k spammable, though. You have to set it up with three attacks before you can use it. Once you use it- then you have to set it up again with three attacks.

Crystal Frags proc isn’t a spammable. But you can get it to proc within one attack. (RNG)

Spectral Bow isn’t a spammable- but you can get it to proc after 5 light attacks (cheaper than three class skills attacks).

And you think that Crystal Frags and Spectral Bow only read 9.5k when they proc? Whip is definitely not “twice as much.”

And, again, these other classes have a ranged execute that they can use in conjunction with their hard hitting skills. But you don’t bother acknowledging that?

But it is not my fault that Dragonknights do not have an execute.
Just promise me you will blast vampires with your whip and get them to respec.

TheYKcid

Juhasow wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Good luck landing one in pvp

In only a dk would've undodgable unblockable cheap CC , or an AoE undodgable ulti with high tooltip and stun. Oh wait.

Yes and if only they had the singular undodgeable gapcloser in the game which simultaneously slows their target whilst also giving them a speed boost, and that's getting a 20% damage buff in Elsweyr and integrates cohesively into their new burst setup, being an Ardent Flame ability thus contributing towards whip stacks.

Oh, if only. Poor DKs have such a struggle with countermobility.

pieratsos

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Again- you’re probably proving my point. You could stack all damage enchants, damage mundus, nirned weapons, beserk enchants on any class to have a ridiculously high lash/frag/spectral bow/shalk/blast bone/dark flare... but it’s not feasible.

Also, the fact that you can get a lash up to 19-21k is still constrained to melee range without any form of execute. If you took another class and stacked toward the highest frag/spectral bow/flare you can still hit a target from 28+ meters AND combine it with a ranged execute.

An ability being ranged comes with its own drawbacks like being a hell of a lot easier to counter.

Yes an ability being melee may be a little "harder" to use but when u are in a position to use it there is a much higher chance that ur opponent will eat it in the face than a slow projectile from 30 meters away which will give ur opponent more than enough time to get up, make a coffee, go in the toilet, come back and still have time to dodge, block, reflect absorb it etc.

Comparing abilities based on their range alone in PVP is kinda biased and doesn't really say much about which one is better.

Savos_Saren

labambao wrote: »

Rookie numbers. I got 25k whip in pts. Some guy got 32k, but there was some glasscannon build.

Pics or it didn’t happen. A 32k tooltip read? Or it was a 32k crit from the proc on a target dummy?

Savos_Saren

pieratsos wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Again- you’re probably proving my point. You could stack all damage enchants, damage mundus, nirned weapons, beserk enchants on any class to have a ridiculously high lash/frag/spectral bow/shalk/blast bone/dark flare... but it’s not feasible.

Also, the fact that you can get a lash up to 19-21k is still constrained to melee range without any form of execute. If you took another class and stacked toward the highest frag/spectral bow/flare you can still hit a target from 28+ meters AND combine it with a ranged execute.

An ability being ranged comes with its own drawbacks like being a hell of a lot easier to counter.

Yes an ability being melee may be a little "harder" to use but when u are in a position to use it there is a much higher chance that ur opponent will eat it in the face than a slow projectile from 30 meters away which will give ur opponent more than enough time to get up, make a coffee, go in the toilet, come back and still have time to dodge, block, reflect absorb it etc.

Comparing abilities based on their range alone in PVP is kinda biased and doesn't really say much about which one is better.

Didn’t ZOS just speed up the projectile? And you know what else you can do at 30+ meters? Burn down a DK who can’t gap close to you. We have one ranged class ability that is lackluster compared to the damage of frags/bow.

Chilly-McFreeze

Savos_Saren wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Again- you’re probably proving my point. You could stack all damage enchants, damage mundus, nirned weapons, beserk enchants on any class to have a ridiculously high lash/frag/spectral bow/shalk/blast bone/dark flare... but it’s not feasible.

Also, the fact that you can get a lash up to 19-21k is still constrained to melee range without any form of execute. If you took another class and stacked toward the highest frag/spectral bow/flare you can still hit a target from 28+ meters AND combine it with a ranged execute.

An ability being ranged comes with its own drawbacks like being a hell of a lot easier to counter.

Yes an ability being melee may be a little "harder" to use but when u are in a position to use it there is a much higher chance that ur opponent will eat it in the face than a slow projectile from 30 meters away which will give ur opponent more than enough time to get up, make a coffee, go in the toilet, come back and still have time to dodge, block, reflect absorb it etc.

Comparing abilities based on their range alone in PVP is kinda biased and doesn't really say much about which one is better.

Didn’t ZOS just speed up the projectile? And you know what else you can do at 30+ meters? Burn down a DK who can’t gap close to you. We have one ranged class ability that is lackluster compared to the damage of frags/bow.

False. First they introduced a minimul travel time for "in your face" casts. Then they reduced that minimum travel time. So no speed up at long ranges.
Use your *** gap closer and/or RAT. Or try to not stand out in the open with 28m of no cover.

Savos_Saren

psychotic13 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

...and here we go. A bunch of people rushing in to make comments about a single screenshot of a proc. I guess I need to go and make screenshots of every high Crystal Frag/Spectral Bow/Shalk/Blast Bones/Dark Flare proc and scream that it's unfair.

Edit: I forgot to add Dark Flare in that. Actually, I would like to test each build's niche proc and see who has the highest. I bet I could use flat rate sets (Innate + Slimecraw + Sun/War Maiden/Swamp Raider/Automaton) to see which abilities might be OP. Then we could debate who should be nerfed... especially if you can use some of those skills from range and combine them with an execute.

None of the abilities you listed are spammable like lash, youre comparing apples and oranges.

Again- lash isn’t spammable at 19k. And none of those abilities are limited to melee like lash, either.

Savos_Saren

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Again- you’re probably proving my point. You could stack all damage enchants, damage mundus, nirned weapons, beserk enchants on any class to have a ridiculously high lash/frag/spectral bow/shalk/blast bone/dark flare... but it’s not feasible.

Also, the fact that you can get a lash up to 19-21k is still constrained to melee range without any form of execute. If you took another class and stacked toward the highest frag/spectral bow/flare you can still hit a target from 28+ meters AND combine it with a ranged execute.

An ability being ranged comes with its own drawbacks like being a hell of a lot easier to counter.

Yes an ability being melee may be a little "harder" to use but when u are in a position to use it there is a much higher chance that ur opponent will eat it in the face than a slow projectile from 30 meters away which will give ur opponent more than enough time to get up, make a coffee, go in the toilet, come back and still have time to dodge, block, reflect absorb it etc.

Comparing abilities based on their range alone in PVP is kinda biased and doesn't really say much about which one is better.

Didn’t ZOS just speed up the projectile? And you know what else you can do at 30+ meters? Burn down a DK who can’t gap close to you. We have one ranged class ability that is lackluster compared to the damage of frags/bow.

False. First they introduced a minimul travel time for "in your face" casts. Then they reduced that minimum travel time. So no speed up at long ranges.
Use your *** gap closer and/or RAT. Or try to not stand out in the open with 28m of no cover.

Gap closers don’t reach 30+ meters (like we were discussing).

And you can use your own stupid logic (bolded above) for melee range of a DK. TrY nOt To StAnD cLoSe To A dK. You can use speedbuffs or RAT to get away, m’kay?

Maulkin

Curious to see how it plays out, I'm glad MagDKs are getting a buff or two this patch

I must say though, it's not that hard to set up the burst. Activate FoO before you get to the target then:
Chains->Engulfing->Take Flight->Whip.

If you time it right, FoO should land just before the Whip and empowered by both Engulfing Flames and full Seething Fury. Same as Take Flight and the Whip itself. Also, throw 2 Empowered light attacks in the mix, an enchant proc and maybe (if you're lucky) a Skoria/Zaan proc and we're taking about a lot of damage in very short time.

Looking forward to trying it out.

Xvorg

psychotic13 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

...and here we go. A bunch of people rushing in to make comments about a single screenshot of a proc. I guess I need to go and make screenshots of every high Crystal Frag/Spectral Bow/Shalk/Blast Bones/Dark Flare proc and scream that it's unfair.

Edit: I forgot to add Dark Flare in that. Actually, I would like to test each build's niche proc and see who has the highest. I bet I could use flat rate sets (Innate + Slimecraw + Sun/War Maiden/Swamp Raider/Automaton) to see which abilities might be OP. Then we could debate who should be nerfed... especially if you can use some of those skills from range and combine them with an execute.

None of the abilities you listed are spammable like lash, youre comparing apples and oranges.

Seething fury lash is not spammable though. Just wait for 2 whips and then dodge roll.

Anyway, the skill is stupidly overbuffed. It would have been much better if it increased flame dmg a 10% stacking up to 5 times. Or applying a spell resistance debuff on target.

This even makes me consider stam lash as a better option (and I've always been against stam lash)

TheYKcid

Maulkin wrote: »

Curious to see how it plays out, I'm glad MagDKs are getting a buff or two this patch

I must say though, it's not that hard to set up the burst. Activate FoO before you get to the target then:
Chains->Engulfing->Take Flight->Whip.

If you time it right, FoO should land just before the Whip and empowered by both Engulfing Flames and full Seething Fury. Same as Take Flight and the Whip itself. Also, throw 2 Empowered light attacks in the mix, an enchant proc and maybe (if you're lucky) a Skoria/Zaan proc and we're taking about a lot of damage in very short time.

Looking forward to trying it out.

Yep, don't forget about Embers, which you'll be recasting fairly often too. Not hard to get full stacks at all. Also looking forward to playing mDK next patch, some big buffs to be enjoyed.

pieratsos

Savos_Saren wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Again- you’re probably proving my point. You could stack all damage enchants, damage mundus, nirned weapons, beserk enchants on any class to have a ridiculously high lash/frag/spectral bow/shalk/blast bone/dark flare... but it’s not feasible.

Also, the fact that you can get a lash up to 19-21k is still constrained to melee range without any form of execute. If you took another class and stacked toward the highest frag/spectral bow/flare you can still hit a target from 28+ meters AND combine it with a ranged execute.

An ability being ranged comes with its own drawbacks like being a hell of a lot easier to counter.

Yes an ability being melee may be a little "harder" to use but when u are in a position to use it there is a much higher chance that ur opponent will eat it in the face than a slow projectile from 30 meters away which will give ur opponent more than enough time to get up, make a coffee, go in the toilet, come back and still have time to dodge, block, reflect absorb it etc.

Comparing abilities based on their range alone in PVP is kinda biased and doesn't really say much about which one is better.

Didn’t ZOS just speed up the projectile? And you know what else you can do at 30+ meters? Burn down a DK who can’t gap close to you. We have one ranged class ability that is lackluster compared to the damage of frags/bow.

And you know what else counters frags and merciless. Your wings genius. Seriously if you are getting burned down by a NB or a sorc with that much mitigation and without doing anything to them its most likely because you suck and not because frags and merciless are broken.

And yeah buddy, frags and merciless are so dangerous from 30 meters away to the point where NBs go in melee range to cast it and sorcs try to combo it with 4 different abilities and a CC to make it land.

But its ok i get it now. This isnt about frags vs merciless vs whip. This is more about "ill never be happy with the buffs i get until my class one shots everyone and doesnt die to anyone".

Davadin

Xvorg wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

...and here we go. A bunch of people rushing in to make comments about a single screenshot of a proc. I guess I need to go and make screenshots of every high Crystal Frag/Spectral Bow/Shalk/Blast Bones/Dark Flare proc and scream that it's unfair.

Edit: I forgot to add Dark Flare in that. Actually, I would like to test each build's niche proc and see who has the highest. I bet I could use flat rate sets (Innate + Slimecraw + Sun/War Maiden/Swamp Raider/Automaton) to see which abilities might be OP. Then we could debate who should be nerfed... especially if you can use some of those skills from range and combine them with an execute.

I'd love to see (and kill) all those mDKs next patch. Currently I'm having fun with my sDK, despite he still lacks a leg and a hand.

im having fun with mine in Live server.

how are your bars as sDK in PTS/Elswyr?

Till know, I'm going with Pierce armor, foss, vigor, empowering chains, wings UDBoS on live. Next patch I'll switch wings for RaT

Don't want to jump into the noxious waggon (pun intended), but if I do it, I'll just trade PA for it and maybe RaT for whip. In any case I don't like much that playing style

backbar: Injection, mist, GDB, Igneous, Volatile U Corrosive armor.

Stop.


What?

are you playing sDK or mDK? lol.... Chains? GDB? no green claw?

Ah ur a vamp i see..... but still, what's with chains on sDK? is that a tank build?

Savos_Saren

pieratsos wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Again- you’re probably proving my point. You could stack all damage enchants, damage mundus, nirned weapons, beserk enchants on any class to have a ridiculously high lash/frag/spectral bow/shalk/blast bone/dark flare... but it’s not feasible.

Also, the fact that you can get a lash up to 19-21k is still constrained to melee range without any form of execute. If you took another class and stacked toward the highest frag/spectral bow/flare you can still hit a target from 28+ meters AND combine it with a ranged execute.

An ability being ranged comes with its own drawbacks like being a hell of a lot easier to counter.

Yes an ability being melee may be a little "harder" to use but when u are in a position to use it there is a much higher chance that ur opponent will eat it in the face than a slow projectile from 30 meters away which will give ur opponent more than enough time to get up, make a coffee, go in the toilet, come back and still have time to dodge, block, reflect absorb it etc.

Comparing abilities based on their range alone in PVP is kinda biased and doesn't really say much about which one is better.

Didn’t ZOS just speed up the projectile? And you know what else you can do at 30+ meters? Burn down a DK who can’t gap close to you. We have one ranged class ability that is lackluster compared to the damage of frags/bow.

And you know what else counters frags and merciless. Your wings genius. Seriously if you are getting burned down by a NB or a sorc with that much mitigation and without doing anything to them its most likely because you suck and not because frags and merciless are broken.

And yeah buddy, frags and merciless are so dangerous from 30 meters away to the point where NBs go in melee range to cast it and sorcs try to combo it with 4 different abilities and a CC to make it land.

But its ok i get it now. This isnt about frags vs merciless vs whip. This is more about "ill never be happy with the buffs i get until my class one shots everyone and doesnt die to anyone".

Didn’t ever say I was unhappy about the change. I’m glad ZOS compensated mDKs for the nerfs in snares and I’m glad they’re finally bringing other classes up to the capabilities of Sorcs and NBs.

pieratsos

Savos_Saren wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Again- you’re probably proving my point. You could stack all damage enchants, damage mundus, nirned weapons, beserk enchants on any class to have a ridiculously high lash/frag/spectral bow/shalk/blast bone/dark flare... but it’s not feasible.

Also, the fact that you can get a lash up to 19-21k is still constrained to melee range without any form of execute. If you took another class and stacked toward the highest frag/spectral bow/flare you can still hit a target from 28+ meters AND combine it with a ranged execute.

An ability being ranged comes with its own drawbacks like being a hell of a lot easier to counter.

Yes an ability being melee may be a little "harder" to use but when u are in a position to use it there is a much higher chance that ur opponent will eat it in the face than a slow projectile from 30 meters away which will give ur opponent more than enough time to get up, make a coffee, go in the toilet, come back and still have time to dodge, block, reflect absorb it etc.

Comparing abilities based on their range alone in PVP is kinda biased and doesn't really say much about which one is better.

Didn’t ZOS just speed up the projectile? And you know what else you can do at 30+ meters? Burn down a DK who can’t gap close to you. We have one ranged class ability that is lackluster compared to the damage of frags/bow.

And you know what else counters frags and merciless. Your wings genius. Seriously if you are getting burned down by a NB or a sorc with that much mitigation and without doing anything to them its most likely because you suck and not because frags and merciless are broken.

And yeah buddy, frags and merciless are so dangerous from 30 meters away to the point where NBs go in melee range to cast it and sorcs try to combo it with 4 different abilities and a CC to make it land.

But its ok i get it now. This isnt about frags vs merciless vs whip. This is more about "ill never be happy with the buffs i get until my class one shots everyone and doesnt die to anyone".

Didn’t ever say I was unhappy about the change. I’m glad ZOS compensated mDKs for the nerfs in snares and I’m glad they’re finally bringing other classes up to the capabilities of Sorcs and NBs.

Good, now maybe you can understand why people are "worried" about 20k whips and give them the benefit of the doubt instead of lashing out and be like "i still dont have an execute" to diminish the importance of the buffs you get.