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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Player Scam Policy
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[quote="CrimsonThomas;600360
Players can only acquire the skill line through these rare Vampire/Werewolf beasts.
[/quote]
I LOLed when I read this don't know about WW yet but vamps are def. NOT rare ride thru the zone on any night and your likely to get vampirism possibly with out even noticing till later as happened to me.
Saving you or sending you since 2001"The light is strong and man is weak and the world walks in-between" R. Trower0 -
Elvikun✭✭✭I think EVE is a bad comparisation. That game has nothing going for it, if there weren't corporations and individuals ferociously screwing each other in battle, trade of diplomacy. That isn't really point of this game tho, I would say/hope.
If you keep repeatedly scamming people, I think you should get a temp ban and or warning, if several people report you. Especially with vamp/werewolf issue. Isn't it enough there are crowds of people griefing others horribly by wiping the spawns? Do we really need to have more of it by scamming them after that?Failing is a lifestyle too.0 -
Sandhya✭✭✭So if you role play a shady character that rips people off you should be punished for it?
This. In a game that is a roleplaying experience by design this is something to seriously consider as well. If there are guilds or groups of people that band together to extort people, the best way for Zenimax to counter this is by altering the game system so it can also accomodate for a solution that is created by players. (Exactly the way a Fighters Guild line counters the lines of the 'bitten' we are talking about here) An example could be having the spawn campers get PvP flagged once they repeatedly kill these mobs, allowing the rest of the server to have an open season on them. This kind of solution would be in line with the RPG experience, it would fit perfectly in a world of guilds and groups of players that are perfectly capable of banding together to fight these scammers. But most of all, it will greatly encourage players to facilitate their own solutions to such issues instead of yelling for the banhammer at every other fart. That is exactly the kind of self-sufficiency that makes an MMO like EVE so great. Players managing players will also create a far tighter and better community than the current one, which is basically everyone defending their turf.
In any case, it will be very interesting to see Zenimax' stance on this issue, even though the issue can also be readily avoided by a bit of patience and maybe a relog or two.Edited by Sandhya on April 12, 2014 11:50AM2 -
Fl1pz✭✭✭I think EVE is a bad comparisation. That game has nothing going for it, if there weren't corporations and individuals ferociously screwing each other in battle, trade of diplomacy. That isn't really point of this game tho, I would say/hope.
Except that is the point of EVE and it has a lot going for it in that regard. It's an open world where nearly all content is player driven. You forge your own destiny, the Elder Scrolls games have done this. ESO is the first Elder Scrolls game to have as many rails as it does, the franchise has always built a universe where you have choice, you can do the right thing...be the hero. Or you could be a murderer and a thief and add more chaos to the world, the only rails in those games were the ultimate objective of the story line.
Scamming and assuming the role of a swindler or a savvy business man is the essence of Elder Scrolls. You are given that choice, despite all the rails this game has added to the Elder Scrolls universe. To restrict that would be to cut the foundation this Franchise has built even more.
As more bites get given out from friends and people phase into other places to get these bites for themselves you'll see the supply of cheap or free bites will become abundant and this problem will fall off the game. But for now, it should be welcomed as it is something you would expect in an open universe, and I'm all for something else that can help us forget about all the rails this game is jamming down our throats.
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Wrekkoning✭✭Is there one? Or is it whatever you can get away with like in EVE?
Say you offer vamp bite for 20k, collect the gold, then walk away. Will ESO punish people for scamming or is it legit?
Edit to add: I searched support and forums, but didn't see an answer.
I can shorten this up a bitm . "if I steal from people can I get in trouble for it. Cause I wanna steal from people"
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otomodachi✭✭✭I think EVE is a bad comparisation. That game has nothing going for it, if there weren't corporations and individuals ferociously screwing each other in battle, trade of diplomacy. That isn't really point of this game tho, I would say/hope.
Except that is the point of EVE and it has a lot going for it in that regard. It's an open world where nearly all content is player driven. You forge your own destiny, the Elder Scrolls games have done this. ESO is the first Elder Scrolls game to have as many rails as it does, the franchise has always built a universe where you have choice, you can do the right thing...be the hero. Or you could be a murderer and a thief and add more chaos to the world, the only rails in those games were the ultimate objective of the story line.
Scamming and assuming the role of a swindler or a savvy business man is the essence of Elder Scrolls. You are given that choice, despite all the rails this game has added to the Elder Scrolls universe. To restrict that would be to cut the foundation this Franchise has built even more.
As more bites get given out from friends and people phase into other places to get these bites for themselves you'll see the supply of cheap or free bites will become abundant and this problem will fall off the game. But for now, it should be welcomed as it is something you would expect in an open universe, and I'm all for something else that can help us forget about all the rails this game is jamming down our throats.
Yeah, from everything I'd heard and what I knew of the crafting, and the setting for this ESO, I was actually expecting something very similar to the EVE experience. *shrug* It's a niche game, probably a better decision for ZO to avoid imitating it.What do you gain by criticizing a CSR complaint?1 -
Elvikun✭✭✭I think EVE is a bad comparisation. That game has nothing going for it, if there weren't corporations and individuals ferociously screwing each other in battle, trade of diplomacy. That isn't really point of this game tho, I would say/hope.
Except that is the point of EVE and it has a lot going for it in that regard. It's an open world where nearly all content is player driven. You forge your own destiny, the Elder Scrolls games have done this. ESO is the first Elder Scrolls game to have as many rails as it does, the franchise has always built a universe where you have choice, you can do the right thing...be the hero. Or you could be a murderer and a thief and add more chaos to the world, the only rails in those games were the ultimate objective of the story line.
Scamming and assuming the role of a swindler or a savvy business man is the essence of Elder Scrolls. You are given that choice, despite all the rails this game has added to the Elder Scrolls universe. To restrict that would be to cut the foundation this Franchise has built even more.
As more bites get given out from friends and people phase into other places to get these bites for themselves you'll see the supply of cheap or free bites will become abundant and this problem will fall off the game. But for now, it should be welcomed as it is something you would expect in an open universe, and I'm all for something else that can help us forget about all the rails this game is jamming down our throats.
The difference is that in EVE, when someone scams you, you can kill them, then kill their family and pets, then destroy their home and continue systematically wiping out all their friends and loved ones and destroye what they worked to build for many years.
In ESO, you get scammed and you can... Erm. Uhm. Nothing? You can send the person polite yet angry message. Unless they type /ignore. Then you can't do even that.
<If this was, I don't know, UO, I would be all for scamming. Someone scams you? Hit them with a club over the head as they are walking away, take back your money along with all their clothes and chop of their head which you then put on display on your castle with a sign "Scam me once...". However, this is not the case here.>
You see what I'm going for there, yes? When someone scams you and you can do anything about it, it's all good. But you can't in ESO. It's hard to believe anyone that it's RP. RP isn't "Look, I fooled you, but you can't do anything about it because the game won't let you haha, noob.".
It works well in other games, but this isn't other games, this is ESO. Like it or not.Failing is a lifestyle too.2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Scamming and assuming the role of a swindler or a savvy business man is the essence of Elder Scrolls. You are given that choice, despite all the rails this game has added to the Elder Scrolls universe. To restrict that would be to cut the foundation this Franchise has built even more.
Ironically... it's really not. I mean, tell me I'm wrong, tell me how you rolled into Whiterun, or Riften, or Anvil, or Balmora and scammed everyone... or even anyone.
For all that the Elder Scrolls games are about player choice, your options for interacting with the people in the world itself have always been very limited. You can choose to kill someone... sneak in and steal their stuff... or barter with them, but you can't really trick them unless the dialog specifically allows you to. You can't convince them that this weird looking sword is secretly some artifact you pried from the depths and this is a once in a lifetime opportunity, you can't fool them into thinking that enchanted breastplate is a forgery.
You can convince that kid you're a member of the Dark Brotherhood... but you can't tell Mavin that the Brotherhood isn't fond of her trying to pretend she's in tight with them.
So... no. As much as the games are about player agency, it's always limited to some fairly specific identities.0 -
TheSzerdi✭✭Glad to see this has gotten more on topic. I probably should have used a different initial example, like; If you gain access to a guild bank and steal everything out of it. Or; Entering a mutual crafted item trade / breakdown agreement and then failing to uphold your end. Or; Agreeing to craft/enchant items and simply walking off with provided mats.0 -
Stanley✭✭It is all very well people wanting lies to be policed in an mmorpg.
They individually decide it is a "scam" to lie to someone about a Vampire or WW bite but it is magically ok to lie about turning up to a raid or leave a guild where they made promises etc etc ..usually because of special pleading .. this case is different than that case ...
How about "scamming" people for gold by charging ridiculous prices for items because some people dont know what the average price for something is ?
One thing is business the other thing is a scam .. apparently.
How many of you agreed exactly when you were going to get a bite ? did you assume it was 3 mins after you paid or .. 3 years or a thousand years ?
If you dont want to invest your time and resources into developing mutually beneficial relationships or gaining knowledge such that you are less likely to be "scammed" or ripped off or .. disappointed then do that.. dont come bleating to the developers because your view of the world doesnt match.
No one forced you to trade gold for the promise of a bite. You took a calculated risk and maybe it paid off maybe it did not.
We need developers removing genuine barriers to play eg people selling gold for real world currency and [people hacking accounts .. not for in game disputes about trades or agreements to perform in a particular way.
We should not allow players to change character names . .that way there is less opportunity to escape an in game reputation.
Edited by Stanley on April 14, 2014 7:50PM1 -
Stanley✭✭http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/04/elder-scrolls-online-we-make-no-moral-judgements-about-the-way-you-play
"We make no moral judgements about the way you play" Creative director Paul Sage
That has to apply to in game activity that isnt say exploiting a bug or involving out of game activity such as hacking accounts. It obviously can't contravene country laws.
Edited by Stanley on April 15, 2014 12:55PM0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/04/elder-scrolls-online-we-make-no-moral-judgements-about-the-way-you-play
"We make no moral judgements about the way you play" Creative director Paul Sage
that has to apply to in game activity that isnt say exploiting a bug or involving out of game activity such as hacking accounts. It obviously can't contravene country laws.
I think he's talking about players who do dungeons vs. players who quest, or players who PvP, or players who just wander around crafting stuff and selling it.
I'm not certain, obviously, but I don't think that was a "we want our own version of EVE." If no other reason than TESO doesn't have the systems in place to allow players to retaliate for scamming them.Edited by starkerealm on April 15, 2014 12:52PM0 -
Zerl✭✭✭Is there one? Or is it whatever you can get away with like in EVE?
So, I managed to scam 20k off of someone and they said that they would report me...
Do you think I'll get banned for this?
Fixed it for you...
On topic though, it's pretty much 1 of life's hard lessons through a game...
If you were obtaining item(s) through means that breach the ToS then you should be banned. However if you have capitalised on someone's desperate attempt to get cursed than that's really your prerogative to do so.
Just be careful though, karma has an uncanny way of collecting its dues...
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ebunts14_ESO✭✭✭CrimsonThomas wrote: »Soraellion wrote: »They can't start policing stuff like that, it would get silly. "deal with it" (or HTFU as we call it in EVE) will/should probably be their reply.
No, it shouldn't. This game is not EVE, nor does it function like EVE. EVE's economy and gameplay is focused on that. The Elder Scrolls Online is not, and was not meant to be. This is an exploit, through and through.
Players can only acquire the skill line through these rare Vampire/Werewolf beasts. They have the right to this content by purchasing the game and paying the monthly subscription. The boss-campers have no right to bar off content they do not own for resale. That is theft of property purchased by the affected players and Zenimax could take this a hundred different ways with legal responses, as these people are essentially stealing their intellectual property for resale, which they have no legal right to do.
Although I do agree with the fact the campers shouldn't block off content like this and it is extremely annoying and frustrating for the players that want to access that particular thing. However.
The boss campers are not 'stealing' anything and the other affected players have not 'purchased' that content either! At the purest level, the only thing your monthly sub pays for is to allow you to login and access the game servers, it provides you x amount of 'time' where you can freely login, thats it. You don't own anything, you haven't purchased anything on the servers.
The fact that I did purchase the game does entitle me to all the content of the game, just as it does for you. You and others have no right to stop me from any aspect of the game. Plain and simple.
My solution would be once you get infected then you can no longer return to camp the boss. This will allow others to get infected who wish to be without paying extortion prices by gold sellers or greifing guilds.
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KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
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I think it's safe to say now that "investigating" is a word ZOS use when they don't feel comfortable coming out with a clear "no, we're not going to do anything" but have little or no intention to do anything meaningful: see their lame response to complaints about dungeon and boss farming to see the kind of action they decide to take when they DO do something, actions which largely treat legit players as collateral damage.CrimsonThomas wrote: »A few moderators have come out to state that Zenimax is "investigating" the matter. Take that how you will.
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ZOS_AlanGadmin
Scamming violates our terms of service and we will address it accordingly.Is there one? Or is it whatever you can get away with like in EVE?
Say you offer vamp bite for 20k, collect the gold, then walk away. Will ESO punish people for scamming or is it legit?
Edit to add: I searched support and forums, but didn't see an answer.Forum Rules | Promoting Constructive Discussion | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Help Site
I’ve moved to a new position and I am no longer active on this forum. For assistance, please check the resources linked above9 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Is there one? Or is it whatever you can get away with like in EVE?
Say you offer vamp bite for 20k, collect the gold, then walk away. Will ESO punish people for scamming or is it legit?
Edit to add: I searched support and forums, but didn't see an answer.
Well my guess is they won't do much, or they will have to start monitoring the servers 24/7, they can check chat logs, but it just means more work for them.
Plus transferring 20K might get you banned, might get the other person banned too, personally I would avoid any such offers, just to be safe.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
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Now that is awesome, thanks for responding.
Scamming violates our terms of service and we will address it accordingly.Is there one? Or is it whatever you can get away with like in EVE?
Say you offer vamp bite for 20k, collect the gold, then walk away. Will ESO punish people for scamming or is it legit?
Edit to add: I searched support and forums, but didn't see an answer.
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o_0✭✭✭✭
Scamming violates our terms of service and we will address it accordingly.Is there one? Or is it whatever you can get away with like in EVE?
Say you offer vamp bite for 20k, collect the gold, then walk away. Will ESO punish people for scamming or is it legit?
Edit to add: I searched support and forums, but didn't see an answer.
Thank you! Now all those people i see arguing in chat on whether or not people will get in trouble can be referred to this post.0 -
tokyov✭✭kinda back asswards in an ESO mmo isnt it? There will be a thief guild in future, but dont you dare steal/scam other players!0
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Soraellion wrote: »They can't start policing stuff like that, it would get silly. "deal with it" (or HTFU as we call it in EVE) will/should probably be their reply.
A friend of mine when sending some COD accidentally sent not only the item but the money instead to a buyer (miss clicked the COD button or something.) She caught what she'd done immediately and sent a tell to the player who said he never received the mail etc etc, she told him that she was submitting a ticket upon which he stated that he did in fact receive the mail. Which was the last communication she received from him.
A few days later she found the item (not sure about the gold) was placed back into her inventory. Which would suggest that they are indeed doing something.
She also doesn't auto loot so she was quite confident that she didn't loot the same item twice either.
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Dodece✭✭✭Am I the only one who finds this whole thing laughable. This hardly warrants all this serious discussion, because the problem even if there is one is entirely self correcting, and it is a problem the community can police for itself. Once there are enough vamps in game the bites will become next to worthless, and fairly easy to come by.
It is a disease after all, and will act like a disease. You will eventually get the flu. Just go do something else while it spreads.0 -
Doowie✭✭✭Remember guys that when you report someone, use the screenshot feature to show the confirmation of the agreement/sale.
Make sure to give dates/times (your timezone). They will review the chat logs and the generic logs to see that you traded the gold and the player logs out or just leaves before adding you to ignore.
Allowing an MMO to go on with no actions being taken against scammer, would just result in a very bad experience for 99% of those who are playing the game. All it takes is 1 scammer to get the rage flowing for us all. I've been scammed already in the game and forwarded all the information, so I will let the customer service rep do his job or just end up being lazy, not doing his job and end up being fired after his work is reviewed!
Anywho, just report them and get back to playing![Name]: Doowie Doucheolas
[Level]: Veteran Rank 5 / [PvP Rank]: Veteran
[Class]: NightBlade / [Race]: Woodelf
[Server]: EU Megaserver / [Faction]: Ebonheart Pact
[Skills]: Medium Armour / Bow / Dual Wield / Werewolf / Clothing
"The very existence of flame-throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."1 -
Remember guys that when you report someone, use the screenshot feature to show the confirmation of the agreement/sale.
Make sure to give dates/times (your timezone). They will review the chat logs and the generic logs to see that you traded the gold and the player logs out or just leaves before adding you to ignore.
Allowing an MMO to go on with no actions being taken against scammer, would just result in a very bad experience for 99% of those who are playing the game. All it takes is 1 scammer to get the rage flowing for us all. I've been scammed already in the game and forwarded all the information, so I will let the customer service rep do his job or just end up being lazy, not doing his job and end up being fired after his work is reviewed!
Anywho, just report them and get back to playing!
Doowie nailed this one; report them & get back on task!!
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Vyshan✭✭✭Hiding behind "I'm roleplaying" isn't really believable, since many "purchases" in roleplay don't actually involve the exchange of coin.
I wouldn't pay you for the bite, but I would EMOTE paying you for it.1
