Protective Trait is Overtuned

Firstmep · May 2019

Imagine if we had sharpened jewelry that was giving the same penetration as protective gives resists.

glavius · May 2019

Protective is also totally useless against the very common bleed damage type. I'd say it's pretty balanced. And that resist/physical defence set bonuses are generally not that good.

Stx · May 2019

I think it's fine the way it is. You are correct that it's over budgeted stat wise, but so is triune, and each has their purpose.

Its true that in certain cases, its imbalanced... like if your build needed more resists and more stamina and you could either get it from jewel traits or mundus stone, you would be kind of forced to get it from jewel traits. But honestly I dont think that situation happens all too often, mainly because resists are easy to get elsewhere.

eso_lags · May 2019

more nerf threads huh

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · May 2019

Abhaya wrote: »

When making this post I was pointing out the difference in value between the different traits using set bonuses as a baseline (assuming these are even balanced at all to begin with.) Contrary to what others have said, this isn’t a call to nerf but to point out an imbalance. Even with a 1.45 modifier on weapon damage from major/minor brutality, etc. the weapon damage provided from infused is still less than a single set bonus while protective is worth significantly more. Other traits could be brought up to this or it could be left alone. My main point is that you are literally gimping yourself (pvp) to build for resistance in armor sets before you do from jewelry traits (all else being equal) considering most other variables such as this are consistent across the board in their value relative to each other (mundus, food, set bonuses.)

Time to see if there is a viable medium damage set alternative to fortified brass with infused weapon damage glyphs that would run better with protective.

the bold is just flat wrong, you get an extra 104 weapon damage from infused, 174 base times 60%, you would end up with an extra 151 weapon damage with a modifier of 45%. a set piece is 129. even purple level will get you 93 extra, which would end up with 134 extra with a modifier of 45% and a purple set piece is 124.

and " literally gimping yourself " is such a hyperbolic statement, you are talking about less then single digit differences. stop being so melodramatic.

Firstmep wrote: »

Imagine if we had sharpened jewelry that was giving the same penetration as protective gives resists.

it would be less, one protective is only 1844 at gold. even 2 is 3688, which is only 936 difference, to sharpened 2 handed weapons 2752, which is a 1.4% difference in damage in pvp. again, i wish people would stop crying about single digit differences.

ccmedaddy · May 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

again, i wish people would stop crying about single digit differences.

*high elf brigade flashbacks*

Nevasca · May 2019

Protective is not overtuned, it's meta. It's waaay different.

Light Armor is meta, therefore you need Protective to make up for the armor loss. It's simple as that. If Heavy Armor was stronger, the triat would be considered underpowered. Although HA is stronger than MA, so it's not like HA needs buffs.

Rikumaru · May 2019

Protective and jewelry trait changing was a mistake. I see so many complaints about super tanky builds with high damage nowadays which is caused by protective and jewelry trait changing. Going two heavy sets was punishing in the past because you were forced to run healthy on your jewelry. Now you are able to get it all, high tankiness, high damage and high healing.

Abhaya · May 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Abhaya wrote: »

When making this post I was pointing out the difference in value between the different traits using set bonuses as a baseline (assuming these are even balanced at all to begin with.) Contrary to what others have said, this isn’t a call to nerf but to point out an imbalance. Even with a 1.45 modifier on weapon damage from major/minor brutality, etc. the weapon damage provided from infused is still less than a single set bonus while protective is worth significantly more. Other traits could be brought up to this or it could be left alone. My main point is that you are literally gimping yourself (pvp) to build for resistance in armor sets before you do from jewelry traits (all else being equal) considering most other variables such as this are consistent across the board in their value relative to each other (mundus, food, set bonuses.)

Time to see if there is a viable medium damage set alternative to fortified brass with infused weapon damage glyphs that would run better with protective.

the bold is just flat wrong, you get an extra 104 weapon damage from infused, 174 base times 60%, you would end up with an extra 151 weapon damage with a modifier of 45%. a set piece is 129. even purple level will get you 93 extra, which would end up with 134 extra with a modifier of 45% and a purple set piece is 124.

and " literally gimping yourself " is such a hyperbolic statement, you are talking about less then single digit differences. stop being so melodramatic.

Firstmep wrote: »

Imagine if we had sharpened jewelry that was giving the same penetration as protective gives resists.

it would be less, one protective is only 1844 at gold. even 2 is 3688, which is only 936 difference, to sharpened 2 handed weapons 2752, which is a 1.4% difference in damage in pvp. again, i wish people would stop crying about single digit differences.

I pulled the infused numbers from a different thread instead of doing my own math which was clearly a mistake. At gold you get 174 weapon damage times 1.6 for infused minus the original 174 gives a net increase of 104.4 weapon damage. It is easy to get a self buffed modifier of 35 to 40 percent in medium so in the end you would gain ~141 to 146 weapon damage which is above the value of a standard weapon damage set bonus. While still slightly behind protective this definitely puts it more in line while robust falls further behind in value.

Thanks for the correction. Also, when have the ESO forums ever not been melodramatic. 😉

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · May 2019

Abhaya wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Abhaya wrote: »

When making this post I was pointing out the difference in value between the different traits using set bonuses as a baseline (assuming these are even balanced at all to begin with.) Contrary to what others have said, this isn’t a call to nerf but to point out an imbalance. Even with a 1.45 modifier on weapon damage from major/minor brutality, etc. the weapon damage provided from infused is still less than a single set bonus while protective is worth significantly more. Other traits could be brought up to this or it could be left alone. My main point is that you are literally gimping yourself (pvp) to build for resistance in armor sets before you do from jewelry traits (all else being equal) considering most other variables such as this are consistent across the board in their value relative to each other (mundus, food, set bonuses.)

Time to see if there is a viable medium damage set alternative to fortified brass with infused weapon damage glyphs that would run better with protective.

the bold is just flat wrong, you get an extra 104 weapon damage from infused, 174 base times 60%, you would end up with an extra 151 weapon damage with a modifier of 45%. a set piece is 129. even purple level will get you 93 extra, which would end up with 134 extra with a modifier of 45% and a purple set piece is 124.

and " literally gimping yourself " is such a hyperbolic statement, you are talking about less then single digit differences. stop being so melodramatic.

Firstmep wrote: »

Imagine if we had sharpened jewelry that was giving the same penetration as protective gives resists.

it would be less, one protective is only 1844 at gold. even 2 is 3688, which is only 936 difference, to sharpened 2 handed weapons 2752, which is a 1.4% difference in damage in pvp. again, i wish people would stop crying about single digit differences.

I pulled the infused numbers from a different thread instead of doing my own math which was clearly a mistake. At gold you get 174 weapon damage times 1.6 for infused minus the original 174 gives a net increase of 104.4 weapon damage. It is easy to get a self buffed modifier of 35 to 40 percent in medium so in the end you would gain ~141 to 146 weapon damage which is above the value of a standard weapon damage set bonus. While still slightly behind protective this definitely puts it more in line while robust falls further behind in value.

Thanks for the correction. Also, when have the ESO forums ever not been melodramatic. 😉

what are you comparing when you sat the bold? are you comparing a set bonus of armor to protective? the lady mundus? defending? they are both, set bonus and mundai, against each other, i have went through and did the math in another thread, using rules that ZoS has laid out, i will link those replies and quote them here-

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5849158#Comment_5849158

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/365904/pc-mac-patch-notes-v3-1-5-horns-of-the-reach

. Mundus Stone values and bonuses have been re-tuned with a focus on improving overall diversity. The Lady was upgraded to grant both Spell and Physical Resistance, and The Lover was completely redesigned to grant Spell and Physical Penetration to counteract The Lady and provide greater flexibility in stat choices.

We’ve also standardized Mundus Stone values against other systems that grant similar bonuses, such as enchantments or Item Sets, so you can customize the stats you care about in each system without needing to worry about weighing the exact values against each other. Mundus Stones are now equivalent to 1.85x of an Item Set bonus.

. Similar to how Mundus Stones were changed, Weapon Trait values have also been rebalanced with a focus on improving overall diversity. Weapon Trait values have a 1:1 pairing with the effectiveness of Mundus Stones; this means if you want armor, you can get the Lady Mundus Stone or a Defending weapon and they will both give you 2752 armor.

. The bonus for having 5 pieces is approximately 2.31x the value of a one-piece bonus. For example, you can get a set bonus of 129 Spell Damage, or a 5-piece bonus of 299 Spell Damage on Julianos.

Some sets, such as Necropotence, have conditional bonuses. Since it’s harder to get these bonuses, we are allowing them to provide up to a 25% increase over other sets. This is why Draugr Hulk now gives 2540 max resource and Necropotence now gives 3150. .

these quote provide the basis for how ZoS has explained their intentions in the past and lay out some ground rules, mainly that a mundai is 1.85x a set bonus, in general and a 5 piece is between 2.31x and 2.8 a set bonus, in general. it also say that the lady is based off of defending and NOT the set bonus, leading to inconsistentes right away but that can be see through math as sort of logical what they did see here-

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5468096#Comment_5468096

also for the record, and item set bonus for pen is 1487, almost exactly half of the item set bonus for armor, 2975. and is multiplied by 1.85 to get sharpened and lover values of 2750.95.

though this still leaves the sets of Fortified Brass and Armor Master, they provide 5170 and 5332 resists relatively. no idea how they settled on those numbers, no idea how they got to those numbers, since even with a set bonus of 2974 or 1487 for resists, you cant get anywheres near the 2.31-2.8 they have laid out.

getting to protective, the jewelry traits are not balanced against set bonuses, we have no idea how they are balanced and can only guess, so when you are talking about jewelry traits, try to keep in mind that information. but this thread has some information on it-

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5468434#Comment_5468434

okay having actually watched the video, he is comparing things all wrong, as far as i can see. first there is the fact of the things i already posted in this thread, that zos "balanced" around item set bonuses and weapon traits. not jewelry traits. fact is, that what would probably happen is that protective get a 33% reduction, since that is the newer thing and if they did what you are asking, zos would have to buff defending, then they would have to buff sharpened, then they would have to buff lover and so on.

then there is the fact that he is taking the base values of the mundai, not the max values you can get from having divines on your armor.

when you say that 3 stam jewelry is worth 2610 and the tower is only 2028, it really ought to be 3132 for the jewelry and 3092 for the mundus. why 3132 you ask? champion points. champion point percentage amps do not apply to max stat mundai, but they do apply to everything else. and 3092 for the mundas because the 52.5% you get from 7 divines. you have to take them at their best values. so 3132-3092. much closer. you also only manage to bring redguard up as the only thing that buffs max stam. there are at least 2 other percent amps, besides champion points, for max stam in the game. so why only bring up one?

that would make the resistance calculation you are trying to make here, 5532-4196. much closer.

don't even get me started on how you calculated with weapon damage. weapon damage is buffed by way more then just major brutality.

now that post is a little outdated, mundai are now subject to the 20% from cp. makes a difference of 618 for the mundai, though you probably care more about pvp were this is not a problem.

Ragnarock41 · May 2019

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Strange to find someone complaining being overtuned,

This trait is probably least used in game and need some kind of buff to be par with others.

Quite the opposite it is one of the more popular ones for PvP, as its superior to gear or mundus options for resistances.

Abhaya · May 2019

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO I was comparing the value of the traits to generic set bonuses as a baseline. For example, the value of a robust trait on jewelry (870) is less than the value of a stamina bonus from sets (1096) while the value of a protective trait on jewelry (1844 physical AND spell resist) is more than the value of a phys/spell resist bonus from a set (2975 physical OR spell resist.) With everything else equal, it will always be more beneficial to get resists from jewelry traits and stamina from armor sets rather than the other way around. Robust is worth 0.79, protective is worth 1.24, and infused with weapon damage glyphs is worth 0.81 but can jump up to around 1.21 the value of a standard item set bonus.

(25% major and minor brutality, 12% medium armor, 8% flawless dawnbreaker, 2% for every sorc skill, etc. it is possible to get 50% or more increased weapon damage and even though that is an extreme example it still puts the relative value of infused weapon damage under protective)

Iskiab · May 2019

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Strange to find someone complaining being overtuned,

This trait is probably least used in game and need some kind of buff to be par with others.

Protective is the strongest trait in the game for pvp and possibly the most used, at least by people who understand its value.

jeah this topic is kinda separated between PVE (almost no use of protective) and PVP (more use of protective)

Even then it’s further divided between CP and no-CP pvpers. Without protective most light armour specs wouldn’t work in no-CP.

If something isn’t working well - CP pvp - don’t break everything else trying to fix it. The issue is CPs, not heavy armour, protective traits, or anything else.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · May 2019

.

starkerealm · May 2019

Honestly, in most situations, protective's kinda a waste. Getting to hardcap resists as the tank isn't hard without protective. It does open up some niche scenarios where you might want to run a DPS or healing set for support, and recover the loss of resists there, but usually not worth worrying about.

For DPS and healers, Protective is actually counterproductive, so you shouldn't be running it at all.

PvP is a different animal, but, again, having maxed resists in PvP is more about being able to push over cap and reduce the effectiveness of your opponent's Pen stats, so there's some use, but not enough that I'd say, "oh, yeah, you need this." Especially in contrast to Triune or Infused.

Waffennacht · May 2019

Leave protective alone

susmitds · May 2019

Change Protective and you may as well delete Medium Armor/Light Armor from the game.

Kadoin · May 2019

Stop! If protective is nerfed, all the medium and light armor builds people think are heavy armor-based will all stop doing a bunch of damage and being tanky! N-No! We can't have that happen! I must think of a fallacy to convince you to believe the same soon! Hm...

WrathOfInnos · May 2019

Seems fine to me. Try using 5 piece set bonuses for a comparison. Fortified Brass gives 5170 Physical and Spell Resistance, so the 1844 from Protective is 36% of a 5pc bonus. Compare that to infused, which adds 104 weapon or spell damage, equivalent to 35% of the 5pc bonus on Julianos or Hundings Rage.

IMO the baseline of a set bonus being either 2975 Physical OR Spell Resistance is the flaw here. That is too weak, it is the sets where a single bonus gives 2975 Physical AND Spell Resistance that hold up to the power of other options.

Now to go off on a tangent. This also brings up the point that the Lord Stone and the Defending Weapon trait are too weak. Nobody uses these, and for good reason. These should get the same treatment as resistance based set bonuses, and have double the value of the related penetration bonus (typically 1487 penetration is considered equal to 2975 resistance). This change would bring the Lady Stone and Defending Trait to 5504 Physical + Spell Resistance, and make them a viable choice, especially for tanks.

Hypothetically, if this change happened, we can look at Protective vs the new Lady Stone and see it has 34% the bonus of a Mundus Stone. Comparing that to Arcane (which offers 870 Magicka), we can see that it offers 43%. These are not quite balanced, but it’s a lot closer than on live (67% vs 43%).

HEBREWHAMMERRR · May 2019

Quit shedding so much light on protective. There’s people who haven’t caught on yet. 🌚

geonsocal · May 2019

eso_lags wrote: »

more nerf threads huh

you're reading it backwards - not literally, but figuratively

these threads are great for alerting you to stuff you may not normally use, and to see if it might be useful for one of your toons...

it's a challenge to balance sustain, survivability and lethality, and, do that with a lot of different characters, diversity of builds is a lot of fun, and kind of important...

plus, after sooooooo many years, I'm starting to get tired of reading patch notes and pts threads...

I remember the big swift "craze"...turns out it was too hard to target stuff moving that fast for me - thank god they put a cap on it...

I've got a few toons in all light and all medium, I've tried fortified, impregnable, heavy armor sets, and, use chudan now on my all medium stam sorc...plus, there are different methods for mitigating damage, or, out healing it...

hadn't really given protective much thought...generally I like stacking damage on my jewelry, it's easier to figure out the other stuff with sets, skills, potions, mundus stones, playstyle, whatever...stacking damage has always been a challenge for me...plus, my rotations suck at times - I switch characters pretty frequently, so, my own fault for that...

I have over 5k transmute things, I actually had to destroy a couple of thousand cuz they were clogging up my inventory, I only carry 10 of those end of campaign geodes on each toon - I even have that transmute station at the sleek creek spot...I think the luxury vendor actually had a sign or banner for sale for it recently...still need to hang that up...

so, any trait or enchant discussions are always interesting and welcome...

i do use some other stuff than weapon/spell damage traits and enchants occasionally...I like bloodthirsty a bunch on my magdk, and, triune on my stamplar (orc ww), goes well with the hakeijos...wanna complete a set of imperial physique for him to use once the new IC hits console...

anyways - thanks for the tip @Abhaya

Abhaya · May 2019

@geonsocal thanks for the input! The entire point of the thread was contructive discussion. At no point did I call for nerfs but some immediately came to this conclusion anyways. I probably could have used a different word than overtuned in the title but hey if those people don’t want to read the post in its entirety or contribute it doesn’t matter to me.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · May 2019

sionIV wrote: »

Person #1 runs a solo build, and uses the lady mundus stone (2752 resistance) for his/her build. On the epic jewelry, s/he has 3x robust (3x 840 stamina).

Person #1 has the following: 2752 resistance and 2520 stamina.

Person #2 also runs a solo build, but uses the tower mundus stone (2028 stamina) for his/her build. On the epic jewelry, s/he has 2x protective (2x 1784 resistance) and 1x robust (1x 840 stamina)

Person #2 has the following: 3568 resistance and 2868 stamina.

There is quite a difference, unless my math is wrong.

On your first build that person runs 3 Purple Jewelry and no Divines?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Abhaya wrote: »

When making this post I was pointing out the difference in value between the different traits using set bonuses as a baseline (assuming these are even balanced at all to begin with.) Contrary to what others have said, this isn’t a call to nerf but to point out an imbalance. Even with a 1.45 modifier on weapon damage from major/minor brutality, etc. the weapon damage provided from infused is still less than a single set bonus while protective is worth significantly more. Other traits could be brought up to this or it could be left alone. My main point is that you are literally gimping yourself (pvp) to build for resistance in armor sets before you do from jewelry traits (all else being equal) considering most other variables such as this are consistent across the board in their value relative to each other (mundus, food, set bonuses.)

Time to see if there is a viable medium damage set alternative to fortified brass with infused weapon damage glyphs that would run better with protective.

the bold is just flat wrong, you get an extra 104 weapon damage from infused, 174 base times 60%, you would end up with an extra 151 weapon damage with a modifier of 45%. a set piece is 129. even purple level will get you 93 extra, which would end up with 134 extra with a modifier of 45% and a purple set piece is 124.

and " literally gimping yourself " is such a hyperbolic statement, you are talking about less then single digit differences. stop being so melodramatic.

Firstmep wrote: »

Imagine if we had sharpened jewelry that was giving the same penetration as protective gives resists.

it would be less, one protective is only 1844 at gold. even 2 is 3688, which is only 936 difference, to sharpened 2 handed weapons 2752, which is a 1.4% difference in damage in pvp. again, i wish people would stop crying about single digit differences.

Don't forget Robust > Infused even with Gold gear.
Reason is CP300+ buff (20%) and Undaunted passive (6%). Before any other passives added.
So 870 * 1.26 = 1096 Stamina. / 10.46 = 104 WP + 174 = 278 WP

Infused is 174 * 1.60 = 278 WP

And you have 1096 extra on the first occasion.

evoniee · May 2019

sionIV wrote: »

Person #1 runs a solo build, and uses the lady mundus stone (2752 resistance) for his/her build. On the epic jewelry, s/he has 3x robust (3x 840 stamina).

Person #1 has the following: 2752 resistance and 2520 stamina.

Person #2 also runs a solo build, but uses the tower mundus stone (2028 stamina) for his/her build. On the epic jewelry, s/he has 2x protective (2x 1784 resistance) and 1x robust (1x 840 stamina)

Person #2 has the following: 3568 resistance and 2868 stamina.

There is quite a difference, unless my math is wrong.

ZOS math for balancing bois

Corpier · May 2019

I think many people fail to understand why protective is strong in pvp. The trait itself is balanced against other traits on paper, having roughly equal value to other traits. The issue comes in pvp when Battle Spirit gets factored. Damage and healing is halved. This means that all the damage and healing that comes from stats like penetration, crit, max mag/stam, or max weapon/spell damage is reduced by half. Those stats are effectively worth half of what they would be in pve. The stats that are not effected are resists, health, and regens. This makes those stats more efficient in pvp, and that is what makes them effective.

(Other things like movement speed also fall into this category and thankfully some like resists and movement speed have soft/hard caps. Health and regen tend to also be balanced despite not being effected by Battle Spirit since primary stats are used for damage AND healing compared to health just being used for survival, and regen beyond what is needed to sustain is wasted.)

Protective is only relatively strong in pvp because its an option for gaining resistances that allows players to not have to run a set like Fortified Brass or give up strong armor passives for wearing 5 light or medium. It is the lowest costing option for one of the most efficient stats. A jewelry trait for resists, instead of trading a set bonus or armor passives. Of course a player could run multiple, or all, of the above and there isn't much reason not to when hardly any build in pvp is without some penetration, so its not a bad thing to be slightly over resist cap.

The problem of nerfing the trait instead of reworking the trait it is that If it is nerfed then it will be even less used in pve than Its already nonexistent presence now. If the devs want it to be a pvp trait, fine, but if it is suppose to be beneficial in pve and pvp then it should perform as such. The other option for nerfing the trait without changing its purpose would be to reduce the value of the stat by making resistances be halved by Battle Spirit like other stats. Trust me you don't want that if you are not fond of dying in 2 seconds.

In my opinion, the trait honestly needs a rework instead of a nerf. Maybe give it a moderate amount of crit resistances so people can use other traits than impenetrable without using Impregnable, or make it to reduce the chance/duration of status effects or of specific debuffs on players? If a rework isn't possible, then its probably the lesser evil to nerf the trait to useless/niche status as it is currently the most operationally effective ways of gaining one of the more efficient stats for pvp.

geonsocal · May 2019

Abhaya wrote: »

@geonsocal thanks for the input! The entire point of the thread was contructive discussion. At no point did I call for nerfs but some immediately came to this conclusion anyways. I probably could have used a different word than overtuned in the title but hey if those people don’t want to read the post in its entirety or contribute it doesn’t matter to me.

honestly @Abhaya - not everyone makes eso their life's work...although, it has held my interest since 2015...man. there is just soooooooo much to know - and it changes every few months, in some cases - majorly so...

discussions about gear sets, abilities and the million and one other things that go into doing dungeons/trials/arenas, and my personal favorite - do unto others before they are able to kill you, that include numbers, fairly well spelled words, and coherent thoughts are always awesome...

an odd or amusing gif ain't such a bad thing either...

bmnoble · May 2019

As an almost 9 trait crafter, to date I have only had one player ever order the protective trait for jewelry and it was only 1 piece not all 3, that they intended to use on a character not for research.

A set of fortified brass or armor master is far more common choice.

I play a tank on my main and would never use the protective trait, same as I would never use Nirnhoned on armor, its not worth it

TriangularChicken · May 2019

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

sionIV wrote: »

Person #1 runs a solo build, and uses the lady mundus stone (2752 resistance) for his/her build. On the epic jewelry, s/he has 3x robust (3x 840 stamina).

Person #1 has the following: 2752 resistance and 2520 stamina.

Person #2 also runs a solo build, but uses the tower mundus stone (2028 stamina) for his/her build. On the epic jewelry, s/he has 2x protective (2x 1784 resistance) and 1x robust (1x 840 stamina)

Person #2 has the following: 3568 resistance and 2868 stamina.

There is quite a difference, unless my math is wrong.

On your first build that person runs 3 Purple Jewelry and no Divines?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Abhaya wrote: »

When making this post I was pointing out the difference in value between the different traits using set bonuses as a baseline (assuming these are even balanced at all to begin with.) Contrary to what others have said, this isn’t a call to nerf but to point out an imbalance. Even with a 1.45 modifier on weapon damage from major/minor brutality, etc. the weapon damage provided from infused is still less than a single set bonus while protective is worth significantly more. Other traits could be brought up to this or it could be left alone. My main point is that you are literally gimping yourself (pvp) to build for resistance in armor sets before you do from jewelry traits (all else being equal) considering most other variables such as this are consistent across the board in their value relative to each other (mundus, food, set bonuses.)

Time to see if there is a viable medium damage set alternative to fortified brass with infused weapon damage glyphs that would run better with protective.

the bold is just flat wrong, you get an extra 104 weapon damage from infused, 174 base times 60%, you would end up with an extra 151 weapon damage with a modifier of 45%. a set piece is 129. even purple level will get you 93 extra, which would end up with 134 extra with a modifier of 45% and a purple set piece is 124.

and " literally gimping yourself " is such a hyperbolic statement, you are talking about less then single digit differences. stop being so melodramatic.

Firstmep wrote: »

Imagine if we had sharpened jewelry that was giving the same penetration as protective gives resists.

it would be less, one protective is only 1844 at gold. even 2 is 3688, which is only 936 difference, to sharpened 2 handed weapons 2752, which is a 1.4% difference in damage in pvp. again, i wish people would stop crying about single digit differences.

Don't forget Robust > Infused even with Gold gear.
Reason is CP300+ buff (20%) and Undaunted passive (6%). Before any other passives added.
So 870 * 1.26 = 1096 Stamina. / 10.46 = 104 WP + 174 = 278 WP

Infused is 174 * 1.60 = 278 WP

And you have 1096 extra on the first occasion.

What? Then why is everybody saying Infused > robust in PvE? what am i missing?

Abhaya · May 2019

TriangularChicken wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

sionIV wrote: »

Person #1 runs a solo build, and uses the lady mundus stone (2752 resistance) for his/her build. On the epic jewelry, s/he has 3x robust (3x 840 stamina).

Person #1 has the following: 2752 resistance and 2520 stamina.

Person #2 also runs a solo build, but uses the tower mundus stone (2028 stamina) for his/her build. On the epic jewelry, s/he has 2x protective (2x 1784 resistance) and 1x robust (1x 840 stamina)

Person #2 has the following: 3568 resistance and 2868 stamina.

There is quite a difference, unless my math is wrong.

On your first build that person runs 3 Purple Jewelry and no Divines?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Abhaya wrote: »

When making this post I was pointing out the difference in value between the different traits using set bonuses as a baseline (assuming these are even balanced at all to begin with.) Contrary to what others have said, this isn’t a call to nerf but to point out an imbalance. Even with a 1.45 modifier on weapon damage from major/minor brutality, etc. the weapon damage provided from infused is still less than a single set bonus while protective is worth significantly more. Other traits could be brought up to this or it could be left alone. My main point is that you are literally gimping yourself (pvp) to build for resistance in armor sets before you do from jewelry traits (all else being equal) considering most other variables such as this are consistent across the board in their value relative to each other (mundus, food, set bonuses.)

Time to see if there is a viable medium damage set alternative to fortified brass with infused weapon damage glyphs that would run better with protective.

the bold is just flat wrong, you get an extra 104 weapon damage from infused, 174 base times 60%, you would end up with an extra 151 weapon damage with a modifier of 45%. a set piece is 129. even purple level will get you 93 extra, which would end up with 134 extra with a modifier of 45% and a purple set piece is 124.

and " literally gimping yourself " is such a hyperbolic statement, you are talking about less then single digit differences. stop being so melodramatic.

Firstmep wrote: »

Imagine if we had sharpened jewelry that was giving the same penetration as protective gives resists.

it would be less, one protective is only 1844 at gold. even 2 is 3688, which is only 936 difference, to sharpened 2 handed weapons 2752, which is a 1.4% difference in damage in pvp. again, i wish people would stop crying about single digit differences.

Don't forget Robust > Infused even with Gold gear.
Reason is CP300+ buff (20%) and Undaunted passive (6%). Before any other passives added.
So 870 * 1.26 = 1096 Stamina. / 10.46 = 104 WP + 174 = 278 WP

Infused is 174 * 1.60 = 278 WP

And you have 1096 extra on the first occasion.

What? Then why is everybody saying Infused > robust in PvE? what am i missing?

It is. Infused weapon damage on gold jewelry gives 104.4 weapon damage before modifiers. 870 stamina from robust translates into roughly the equivalent of 82.9 weapon damage before modifiers. The person you quoted added modifiers to the stamina bonus but didn’t for the weapon damage bonus. Even before modifiers infused is ahead and considering that you can get more than 50% increased weapon damage while the most you can get for stamina is 34% (20% CP, 6% undaunted, and 8% bound armaments) this puts infused even further ahead.

Iskiab · May 2019

Protective isn’t overtuned. Sets that give 2900 either physical or magical damage resists are undertuned.

Protective fits well into being a certain % of 5 piece bonus’ of sets like fortified brass. The issue with sets like fortified brass is the 3-4 piece bonus’ are bad. Just magical or physical 3k resists are too low.