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Hate for PvP
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brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
You have it good. I DISLIKE EZMODE PVE FOR ESSENTIALLY BARRING AN ENTIRE GAME WORTH OF STORIES FROM MY PERSONAL ENJOYMENT.and no, i don't go there, but I DISLIKE PVP FOR ESSENTIALLY BARRING AN ENTIRE ZONE WORTH OF STORIES FROM MY PERSONAL ENJOYMENT.
While I'm on the subject, I've come to realize almost everything that has ever existed is barred from my personal enjoyment. it's as if my preferences were not considered at all. If you think I'm hard on ZOS, wait until I get a chance to leave feedback with god because frankly, existence is RIDICULOUS.
excuse me WHAT?
in what world can you not enjoy the stories in pve areas? in what world are they bared from you? [snip] story quests by definition are PVE.
Dungeons/trials. You think people are really going to sit back and wait for you while you count how many red bricks are on the wall or read the entire contents of a leaf of paper sitting on a rock?
While some are very patient, don't think for one second that you won't get kicked for "enjoying the stories".
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 19, 2025 4:41PM0 -
Robo_Hobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Part of me wants to do the IC storyline as I hear it's pretty good, but another part of me doesn't want to, out of spite of it being in a PvP area where people can lurk around to kill people just wanting to quest.
After all, if IC completion rate is so low, then I won't have to worry about them ever putting a questline in a PvP area again.
But I'll probably give in and end up biting the bullet sometime and trying it out of curiosity. Some day.2 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭MrBumblefoot wrote: »@Linaleah
I'm pretty sure there are tons of people who like open PvP in an mmo and Cyrodiil is the place for that. That thrill you're talking about, questing while having the risk of getting attacked? That's something many people like because it's just more thrilling, which makes it entertaining. The unsafe feeling in Cyrodiil makes it fun and even I sometimes spend time there despite not liking Cyrodiil. So there are regular things to do there like questing/fishing because Cyrodiil doesn't mean just players killing players. That's the place for players who want to enjoy the game like other PvE players do but with added feature of open PvP. It would make zero sense to not put anything except for PvP battles there. Of course there will be quests. Cyrodiil is PvPvE it's simple as that. If you have a problem with that, don't go to Cyrodiil. There are tons of quests in other zones.
I find it ridiculous that some people think of Cyrodiil as "PvE content in PvP zone which forces PvE players to do PvP". No it's not like that. It's made for people who want to be able to quest in a PvP enabled environment.
Do you want to do every single quest in the game? Then you're gonna have to experience PvP because when you chose to be a PvE player, you decided to not have everything this game has to offer. You can't just decide to play only a portion of the game but be able to complete everything.
Why ask a question if you're going ridicule and reinforce their hate for pvp? Your attitude and the others who feel similar is your answer. /thread.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway3 -
Most PvE players rage quit when they get destroyed for the first time in PvP and just create threads about how [insert class] is broken and needs a nerf.They just need to adapt and play a little bit to get used in competitive PvP environment."I swear to you gentlemen, that to be overly conscious is a sickness, a real, thorough sickness."
-Fyodor Mikhailovich Dostoevsky
"A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?"
-Albert Einstein
“Hell isn't a fire pit but a museum of regrets.”
-Exurb1a3 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »
You have it good. I DISLIKE EZMODE PVE FOR ESSENTIALLY BARRING AN ENTIRE GAME WORTH OF STORIES FROM MY PERSONAL ENJOYMENT.and no, i don't go there, but I DISLIKE PVP FOR ESSENTIALLY BARRING AN ENTIRE ZONE WORTH OF STORIES FROM MY PERSONAL ENJOYMENT.
While I'm on the subject, I've come to realize almost everything that has ever existed is barred from my personal enjoyment. it's as if my preferences were not considered at all. If you think I'm hard on ZOS, wait until I get a chance to leave feedback with god because frankly, existence is RIDICULOUS.
excuse me WHAT?
in what world can you not enjoy the stories in pve areas? in what world are they bared from you? [snip] story quests by definition are PVE.
The story quests in Cyrodiil (and Imperial City) are not, by definition, PVE.
That's because, while the quest enemies are all NPCs, they take place in a PVP zone, around PVP objectives, reward PVP currency, and are performed by PVP targets. In Cyrodiil and Imperial City, YOU and I are valid targets for enemy players. And certainly ZOS designed those quests with the threat of PVP.
3 out of the 5 questing towns are alliance war objectives, granting transit and campaign points. The other 2 are near home keeps and lay right on scroll running routes. Every delve can be used to get the "Blessing of War" AP buff, thats very impprtant for Emperorship.
In Imperial City, you get Tel Var for killing other players, and there's an achievement for killing other players in the Arena - one of the Quest locations. The districts are alliance war objectives, the bosses grant Tel Var, and owning a district grants better Tel Var and respawn, so enemy players have good reasons to kill others. ZOS absolutely intended IC questing to come with the risk of PVP, and incentivized players to engage in it.
You don't enjoy "sudden PVP in your PVE".
The problem I see is that in a PVP zone, there is no PVE. ZOS intertwined those quests into PVP deliberately so that the threat would come from PVP and encorages players to fight. Plus, enemy players are 100% valid targets in Cyrodiil and IC, no matter what they are doing.
So that's why I see it as "Its a PVP zone. There is no "PVE". You queued up for it, so prepare for sudden PVP in a PVP zone. It's inevitable."
(I'm sympathetic to the arguments about lost time when you have to respawn, because I know that can be frustrating. Still, I think that's just frustration. Its not an uncommon mechanic for games, it's obviously there to keep the enemy from killing you right away again (or duels to keep going forever), and when I PVP, if I get wrecked, I often take it as an indication of "I'm not ready to do this right now, I should come back another time." PVE in this game never really gives you that experience, outside of frustrating PUGs in DLC dungeons or VMA, so I can see where its different and frustrating to some players.
In my experience, PVP takes practice. No one hops in and is instantly good at it. There's lots of deaths, and yes, respawning and riding.
If you don't like that...fine. To each their own.
But I do think the "Why should another player get to waste my time?" problem is a pointless complaint in a PVP zone. Inconveniencing enemy players and preventing them from messing with your things and taking their AP is pretty much entire poibt of the zone. That's sort of like complaining about wasted time when you lose a BG match for fail at a PUG dungeon. There's only one person you can really change at the end of the day. Either prepare to PVP in a PVP zone, or if you decide the preparation isnt worth the time and effort, don't complain when you die and that time is wasted.)
Exactly this...
It's in a PvP zone.
The quests reward PvP currency.
The quests center around the PvP storyline.
It automatically comes with the risk of PvP, since you are in fact in a PvP zone..
Logic and reason dictates that is in fact a PvP quest.
Some things aren't for you, and that's perfectly ok...
Just because you play PvE doesn't make you entitled to every quest.
I'll never understand how 98% of this game is catered for PvE players, and yet they still complain about that 2% that, while certainly they are NOT locked out of, it's a slight inconvenience for them to complete.
Boggles the mind...🤯
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 19, 2025 4:43PM4 -
Smitch_59✭✭✭✭✭I don't enjoy PVP, but I don't hate PVPers. I don't complain about PVP, I just don't go there. I don't feel "entitled" to do the quests in Cyro, and I can happily live without the skyshard achievement or master angler. There's enough for me to do in the game without spending time in Cyro. Y'all play the content you enjoy and I will do the same.By Azura, by Azura, by Azura!3 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't enjoy PVP, but I don't hate PVPers. I don't complain about PVP, I just don't go there. I don't feel "entitled" to do the quests in Cyro, and I can happily live without the skyshard achievement or master angler. There's enough for me to do in the game without spending time in Cyro. Y'all play the content you enjoy and I will do the same.
Getting most of the shards wouldn't be that difficult. You could approach it like a survival horror game. Who cares if you die a few times? It's not like other players can loot your items. Gear does not even lose durability when killed by another player.
PVE in Cyrodiil is actually a lot of fun if approached with a good attitude, even without confidence in one's ability to fight back. Some questers become addicted to the adrenaline rush and learn how to contribute to the Alliance War.
With that said, in my experience, PVP games with competitive-minded players aren't for most people in the same way that sports leagues, even beer leagues, aren't for post people.
Most people would not enjoy playing basketball with basketball enthusiasts. They'd get elbowed, hands in their faces, charged, etc, even on a public court. There are actual fights in recreational hockey leagues.
Also like sports, PVP games can stir intense emotions. And then there's gamesmanship such as trash talk and other forms of taunting and baiting.
They can be really harsh. And that's part of what fans love about them.Edited by zyk on May 18, 2019 6:35PM1 -
Mago✭✭DurzoBlint13 wrote: »
To get the 100k from the daily and get the shards because you will need them on your main
[/quote]
Is the 100K AP is pretty quick and easy to do simply by fixing walls.
Not sure I agree with the shards though. I haven't bothered hunting for any Skyshards from any DLCs past Orsinium for my main and I still have a bunch of unused skill points, even after all crafting, class and relevant weapon skill lines filled out. But to each his own.
[/quote]
I have only one char, that is my main and I want to dps, heal and tank.
No, it was better to give 150k exp but you either do the daily pvp or the pve.0 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't enjoy PVP, but I don't hate PVPers. I don't complain about PVP, I just don't go there. I don't feel "entitled" to do the quests in Cyro, and I can happily live without the skyshard achievement or master angler. There's enough for me to do in the game without spending time in Cyro. Y'all play the content you enjoy and I will do the same.
I wish more thought like you.
Personally, I enjoy both. Both have thier fun and challenges. Both I find to be enjoyable in thier own ways.
What you are saying is completely fair. I just wish there wasn't any of this "forced to do....x thing" crap.
If the reward is worth it, you'll do what's neccessary to achieve it, even if you dont like it. If you don't like it more than the reward, why are you in that content.
I wish more thought like you.
5 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »
I enjoy TES questing, but overland combat is now physically repulsive to me because it's _completely_ brain dead. I'm not exaggerating. I want to quest, but the terrible gameplay makes me feel nauseated. So I had to stop with CWC. Overland content is easy to the point it can't reasonably be considered a game anymore because it's practically impossible to lose -- even if you are disconnected.excuse me WHAT?
in what world can you not enjoy the stories in pve areas? in what world are they bared from you? [snip] story quests by definition are PVE.
When I play games, I need to feel engaged, and in ESO that can only happen in PVP.
But my point to you is that your expectation that the game be tailored to *you* is absurd. You are not barred from doing quests in Cyrodiil, you choose not to because you don't enjoy that gameplay. I do not begrudge anyone for that. But to actually feel entitled to a PVE version of content explicitly designed for PVP is not at all realistic.
except... none of the PVE quests in Cyrodil are in any way, shape or form - designed for pvp. explicitly or otherwise. they are pve quests.... set in a zone where other players can attack you. in every other way, they are your basic pve quests. so desire to be able to do them like regular pve quests? IS absolutely sound and logical. as for ease of combat in pve - you could if you wished - nerf yourself. go naked, reset cp, etc. you have that option. I do NOT have an option not to be attacked by other players when doing pve quests in Cyrodil.
Let's look at Cropsford.
*rides into Cropsford looking to quest*
A. I'm a walking target full of AP to any enemy player.
B. Cropsford has three Alliance War flags, that will grant AP if I capture the town, plus guards that will attack or defend me depending on which alliance owns the town. If my alliance doesnt own the town, good luck turning in quests
C. Cropsford has a transit point for whoever owns the town
D. Cropsford is a hop, skip, and a jump away from Drakelowe and a (new) outpost, and is often used as a staging point for attacks on those objectives
E. The delve one of those quests send you to grants an AP buff for killing the boss, used by people running for emperor.
Tell me again that none of the quests in Cyrodiil was designed for PVP?
Even in Chorrol and Cheydinhal, points A and E are still true. Everywhere we go in Cyrodiil, YOU and I are valid targets full of AP to enemy players.
The quests may not require you to kill enemy players.
However, they are certainly designed to promote conflict and encourage you to fight and kill enemy players.
sigh. yes, the quest to find a bottle of wine is designed to promote conflict, as the quest to poison some npc that did quest giver wrong. those are the 2 off the top of my head that I remember somewhat. somewhat becasue I had to SKIP ALL THAT DIALOGUE BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU INSIST ON PLACING STORIES IN SITUATIONS WHERE YOU CANNOT FULLY ENJOY THEM AND RESIST ANY AND ALL SUGGESTION TO FIX THAT.
ugh.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 19, 2025 4:44PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***5 -
SFDB✭✭✭✭✭
✭When I PVP, I want to PVP.
When I PVE, I want to PVE.
IC storyline is PVE with the "fun" that other people are encouraged to [snip] with you. That's a very specific flavor of PVP. It's like saying "Why do you hate ice cream?" to someone who doesn't want to eat ham-and-spaghetti flavored ice cream.
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 19, 2025 4:35PM7 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »
I enjoy TES questing, but overland combat is now physically repulsive to me because it's _completely_ brain dead. I'm not exaggerating. I want to quest, but the terrible gameplay makes me feel nauseated. So I had to stop with CWC. Overland content is easy to the point it can't reasonably be considered a game anymore because it's practically impossible to lose -- even if you are disconnected.excuse me WHAT?
in what world can you not enjoy the stories in pve areas? in what world are they bared from you? [snip] story quests by definition are PVE.
When I play games, I need to feel engaged, and in ESO that can only happen in PVP.
But my point to you is that your expectation that the game be tailored to *you* is absurd. You are not barred from doing quests in Cyrodiil, you choose not to because you don't enjoy that gameplay. I do not begrudge anyone for that. But to actually feel entitled to a PVE version of content explicitly designed for PVP is not at all realistic.
except... none of the PVE quests in Cyrodil are in any way, shape or form - designed for pvp. explicitly or otherwise. they are pve quests.... set in a zone where other players can attack you. in every other way, they are your basic pve quests. so desire to be able to do them like regular pve quests? IS absolutely sound and logical. as for ease of combat in pve - you could if you wished - nerf yourself. go naked, reset cp, etc. you have that option. I do NOT have an option not to be attacked by other players when doing pve quests in Cyrodil.
Let's look at Cropsford.
*rides into Cropsford looking to quest*
A. I'm a walking target full of AP to any enemy player.
B. Cropsford has three Alliance War flags, that will grant AP if I capture the town, plus guards that will attack or defend me depending on which alliance owns the town. If my alliance doesnt own the town, good luck turning in quests
C. Cropsford has a transit point for whoever owns the town
D. Cropsford is a hop, skip, and a jump away from Drakelowe and a (new) outpost, and is often used as a staging point for attacks on those objectives
E. The delve one of those quests send you to grants an AP buff for killing the boss, used by people running for emperor.
Tell me again that none of the quests in Cyrodiil was designed for PVP?
Even in Chorrol and Cheydinhal, points A and E are still true. Everywhere we go in Cyrodiil, YOU and I are valid targets full of AP to enemy players.
The quests may not require you to kill enemy players.
However, they are certainly designed to promote conflict and encourage you to fight and kill enemy players.
sigh. yes, the quest to find a bottle of wine is designed to promote conflict, as the quest to poison some npc that did quest giver wrong. those are the 2 off the top of my head that I remember somewhat. somewhat becasue I had to SKIP ALL THAT DIALOGUE BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU INSIST ON PLACING STORIES IN SITUATIONS WHERE YOU CANNOT FULLY ENJOY THEM AND RESIST ANY AND ALL SUGGESTION TO FIX THAT.
ugh.
I hear your frustration.
That doesn't change any of the points I made in the post you replied to.
That quest to poison an NPC or find a bottle of wine still takes place in a PVP zone where you and I are valid targets, near PVP objectives, making PVP currency, and so on.
As far as I can tell, you want to slow down and enjoy questing without risk...in a War zone where you are an enemy player. In a zone where ZOS absolutely designed those quest areas to attract players for PVP reasons.
That just does not make sense to me. You willingly queued up for a PVP war zone and then you want to be exempt from the threat of PVP while you quest near PVP locations for PVP currency, as an enemy player.
How does that even make sense? At least, beyond a "I don't want to PVP, so I shouldnt have to" sense?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 19, 2025 4:45PM2 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »
I enjoy TES questing, but overland combat is now physically repulsive to me because it's _completely_ brain dead. I'm not exaggerating. I want to quest, but the terrible gameplay makes me feel nauseated. So I had to stop with CWC. Overland content is easy to the point it can't reasonably be considered a game anymore because it's practically impossible to lose -- even if you are disconnected.excuse me WHAT?
in what world can you not enjoy the stories in pve areas? in what world are they bared from you? [snip] story quests by definition are PVE.
When I play games, I need to feel engaged, and in ESO that can only happen in PVP.
But my point to you is that your expectation that the game be tailored to *you* is absurd. You are not barred from doing quests in Cyrodiil, you choose not to because you don't enjoy that gameplay. I do not begrudge anyone for that. But to actually feel entitled to a PVE version of content explicitly designed for PVP is not at all realistic.
except... none of the PVE quests in Cyrodil are in any way, shape or form - designed for pvp. explicitly or otherwise. they are pve quests.... set in a zone where other players can attack you. in every other way, they are your basic pve quests. so desire to be able to do them like regular pve quests? IS absolutely sound and logical. as for ease of combat in pve - you could if you wished - nerf yourself. go naked, reset cp, etc. you have that option. I do NOT have an option not to be attacked by other players when doing pve quests in Cyrodil.
Let's look at Cropsford.
*rides into Cropsford looking to quest*
A. I'm a walking target full of AP to any enemy player.
B. Cropsford has three Alliance War flags, that will grant AP if I capture the town, plus guards that will attack or defend me depending on which alliance owns the town. If my alliance doesnt own the town, good luck turning in quests
C. Cropsford has a transit point for whoever owns the town
D. Cropsford is a hop, skip, and a jump away from Drakelowe and a (new) outpost, and is often used as a staging point for attacks on those objectives
E. The delve one of those quests send you to grants an AP buff for killing the boss, used by people running for emperor.
Tell me again that none of the quests in Cyrodiil was designed for PVP?
Even in Chorrol and Cheydinhal, points A and E are still true. Everywhere we go in Cyrodiil, YOU and I are valid targets full of AP to enemy players.
The quests may not require you to kill enemy players.
However, they are certainly designed to promote conflict and encourage you to fight and kill enemy players.
sigh. yes, the quest to find a bottle of wine is designed to promote conflict, as the quest to poison some npc that did quest giver wrong. those are the 2 off the top of my head that I remember somewhat. somewhat becasue I had to SKIP ALL THAT DIALOGUE BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU INSIST ON PLACING STORIES IN SITUATIONS WHERE YOU CANNOT FULLY ENJOY THEM AND RESIST ANY AND ALL SUGGESTION TO FIX THAT.
ugh.
I hear your frustration.
That doesn't change any of the points I made in the post you replied to.
That quest to poison an NPC or find a bottle of wine still takes place in a PVP zone where you and I are valid targets, near PVP objectives, making PVP currency, and so on.
As far as I can tell, you want to slow down and enjoy questing without risk...in a War zone where you are an enemy player. In a zone where ZOS absolutely designed those quest areas to attract players for PVP reasons.
That just does not make sense to me. You willingly queued up for a PVP war zone and then you want to be exempt from the threat of PVP while you quest near PVP locations for PVP currency, as an enemy player.
How does that even make sense? At least, beyond a "I don't want to PVP, so I shouldnt have to" sense?
you are still. not. getting it.
it doesn't have. to be. warzone. it can. have. a pve. only. version
which will be beneficial for almost everyone, with possible exception of the type of gankers that love to prey on pve players.
and there is NOTHING. inherently. superior. to placing. story. rich. quests. in a zone. where your players. cannot. fully. enjoy. that. story.
and your argument is not even relevant, becasue you are essentially trying to tell me why I'm wrong for disliking this.
the original question in OP was - why do pve players hate pvp. THIS is my answer and one of the reasons. putting story content behind a zone where that content is difficult to impossible to actualy fully absorb, becasue you are too busy trying not to get ganked. while pvp players will keep defending their right to gank pve players with their last breath.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 19, 2025 4:46PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***8 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »
I enjoy TES questing, but overland combat is now physically repulsive to me because it's _completely_ brain dead. I'm not exaggerating. I want to quest, but the terrible gameplay makes me feel nauseated. So I had to stop with CWC. Overland content is easy to the point it can't reasonably be considered a game anymore because it's practically impossible to lose -- even if you are disconnected.excuse me WHAT?
in what world can you not enjoy the stories in pve areas? in what world are they bared from you? [snip] story quests by definition are PVE.
When I play games, I need to feel engaged, and in ESO that can only happen in PVP.
But my point to you is that your expectation that the game be tailored to *you* is absurd. You are not barred from doing quests in Cyrodiil, you choose not to because you don't enjoy that gameplay. I do not begrudge anyone for that. But to actually feel entitled to a PVE version of content explicitly designed for PVP is not at all realistic.
except... none of the PVE quests in Cyrodil are in any way, shape or form - designed for pvp. explicitly or otherwise. they are pve quests.... set in a zone where other players can attack you. in every other way, they are your basic pve quests. so desire to be able to do them like regular pve quests? IS absolutely sound and logical. as for ease of combat in pve - you could if you wished - nerf yourself. go naked, reset cp, etc. you have that option. I do NOT have an option not to be attacked by other players when doing pve quests in Cyrodil.
Let's look at Cropsford.
*rides into Cropsford looking to quest*
A. I'm a walking target full of AP to any enemy player.
B. Cropsford has three Alliance War flags, that will grant AP if I capture the town, plus guards that will attack or defend me depending on which alliance owns the town. If my alliance doesnt own the town, good luck turning in quests
C. Cropsford has a transit point for whoever owns the town
D. Cropsford is a hop, skip, and a jump away from Drakelowe and a (new) outpost, and is often used as a staging point for attacks on those objectives
E. The delve one of those quests send you to grants an AP buff for killing the boss, used by people running for emperor.
Tell me again that none of the quests in Cyrodiil was designed for PVP?
Even in Chorrol and Cheydinhal, points A and E are still true. Everywhere we go in Cyrodiil, YOU and I are valid targets full of AP to enemy players.
The quests may not require you to kill enemy players.
However, they are certainly designed to promote conflict and encourage you to fight and kill enemy players.
sigh. yes, the quest to find a bottle of wine is designed to promote conflict, as the quest to poison some npc that did quest giver wrong. those are the 2 off the top of my head that I remember somewhat. somewhat becasue I had to SKIP ALL THAT DIALOGUE BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU INSIST ON PLACING STORIES IN SITUATIONS WHERE YOU CANNOT FULLY ENJOY THEM AND RESIST ANY AND ALL SUGGESTION TO FIX THAT.
ugh.
I hear your frustration.
That doesn't change any of the points I made in the post you replied to.
That quest to poison an NPC or find a bottle of wine still takes place in a PVP zone where you and I are valid targets, near PVP objectives, making PVP currency, and so on.
As far as I can tell, you want to slow down and enjoy questing without risk...in a War zone where you are an enemy player. In a zone where ZOS absolutely designed those quest areas to attract players for PVP reasons.
That just does not make sense to me. You willingly queued up for a PVP war zone and then you want to be exempt from the threat of PVP while you quest near PVP locations for PVP currency, as an enemy player.
How does that even make sense? At least, beyond a "I don't want to PVP, so I shouldnt have to" sense?
you are still. not. getting it.
it doesn't have. to be. warzone. it can. have. a pve. only. version
which will be beneficial for almost everyone, with possible exception of the type of gankers that love to prey on pve players.
and there is NOTHING. inherently. superior. to placing. story. rich. quests. in a zone. where your players. cannot. fully. enjoy. that. story.
Okay. So you want a PVE-only Cyrodiil/IC so you can quest.
That's a whole 'nother discussion in my book.
I'd be fine with a PVE-only Cyrodiil/IC if there are none of the rewards included. So you can quest if you like, but no AP, no achievements, no skyshards, no titles, no anniversary rewards, etc.
Why no rewards for skipping out on PVP?
Because ZOS intended for those rewards to be obtained with the threat of PVP.
Because, contrary to your belief, ZOS benefits from players going to PVP zones in order to get those rewards. That's because ZOS wants players to try ALL of the game, not just stay in their comfort zone. That's because ZOS benefits from players who know how both PVE and PVP work, since they balance them together. ZOS constantly expects players to play ALL of the game if they want ALL of the rewards, and there's no better example of that than events like the Anniversary or achievements like Tamriel Skyshard Hunter.
If you are fine with getting to experience the quests but no rewards because you have none of the risk, then we agree. I'm fine with that.
If you still want the rewards with none of the risk of PVP, we're going to have to just disagree. I'm not in favor of anyone getting the rewards ZOS deliberately put in a PVP zone while being exempt from the risk of PVP. That's just wanting ALL the rewards without playing ALL of the game.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 19, 2025 4:49PM4 -
Vietfox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »
I enjoy TES questing, but overland combat is now physically repulsive to me because it's _completely_ brain dead. I'm not exaggerating. I want to quest, but the terrible gameplay makes me feel nauseated. So I had to stop with CWC. Overland content is easy to the point it can't reasonably be considered a game anymore because it's practically impossible to lose -- even if you are disconnected.excuse me WHAT?
in what world can you not enjoy the stories in pve areas? in what world are they bared from you? [snip] story quests by definition are PVE.
When I play games, I need to feel engaged, and in ESO that can only happen in PVP.
But my point to you is that your expectation that the game be tailored to *you* is absurd. You are not barred from doing quests in Cyrodiil, you choose not to because you don't enjoy that gameplay. I do not begrudge anyone for that. But to actually feel entitled to a PVE version of content explicitly designed for PVP is not at all realistic.
except... none of the PVE quests in Cyrodil are in any way, shape or form - designed for pvp. explicitly or otherwise. they are pve quests.... set in a zone where other players can attack you. in every other way, they are your basic pve quests. so desire to be able to do them like regular pve quests? IS absolutely sound and logical. as for ease of combat in pve - you could if you wished - nerf yourself. go naked, reset cp, etc. you have that option. I do NOT have an option not to be attacked by other players when doing pve quests in Cyrodil.
Let's look at Cropsford.
*rides into Cropsford looking to quest*
A. I'm a walking target full of AP to any enemy player.
B. Cropsford has three Alliance War flags, that will grant AP if I capture the town, plus guards that will attack or defend me depending on which alliance owns the town. If my alliance doesnt own the town, good luck turning in quests
C. Cropsford has a transit point for whoever owns the town
D. Cropsford is a hop, skip, and a jump away from Drakelowe and a (new) outpost, and is often used as a staging point for attacks on those objectives
E. The delve one of those quests send you to grants an AP buff for killing the boss, used by people running for emperor.
Tell me again that none of the quests in Cyrodiil was designed for PVP?
Even in Chorrol and Cheydinhal, points A and E are still true. Everywhere we go in Cyrodiil, YOU and I are valid targets full of AP to enemy players.
The quests may not require you to kill enemy players.
However, they are certainly designed to promote conflict and encourage you to fight and kill enemy players.
sigh. yes, the quest to find a bottle of wine is designed to promote conflict, as the quest to poison some npc that did quest giver wrong. those are the 2 off the top of my head that I remember somewhat. somewhat becasue I had to SKIP ALL THAT DIALOGUE BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU INSIST ON PLACING STORIES IN SITUATIONS WHERE YOU CANNOT FULLY ENJOY THEM AND RESIST ANY AND ALL SUGGESTION TO FIX THAT.
ugh.
I hear your frustration.
That doesn't change any of the points I made in the post you replied to.
That quest to poison an NPC or find a bottle of wine still takes place in a PVP zone where you and I are valid targets, near PVP objectives, making PVP currency, and so on.
As far as I can tell, you want to slow down and enjoy questing without risk...in a War zone where you are an enemy player. In a zone where ZOS absolutely designed those quest areas to attract players for PVP reasons.
That just does not make sense to me. You willingly queued up for a PVP war zone and then you want to be exempt from the threat of PVP while you quest near PVP locations for PVP currency, as an enemy player.
How does that even make sense? At least, beyond a "I don't want to PVP, so I shouldnt have to" sense?
you are still. not. getting it.
it doesn't have. to be. warzone. it can. have. a pve. only. version
But IT IS a warzone.
Sorry but if you guys want a PvE only version i want all sets and weapons from PvE content be provided as rewards from PvP. Until then we both PvErs and PvPers will have to deal with that.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 19, 2025 4:48PM5 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »
I enjoy TES questing, but overland combat is now physically repulsive to me because it's _completely_ brain dead. I'm not exaggerating. I want to quest, but the terrible gameplay makes me feel nauseated. So I had to stop with CWC. Overland content is easy to the point it can't reasonably be considered a game anymore because it's practically impossible to lose -- even if you are disconnected.excuse me WHAT?
in what world can you not enjoy the stories in pve areas? in what world are they bared from you? [snip] story quests by definition are PVE.
When I play games, I need to feel engaged, and in ESO that can only happen in PVP.
But my point to you is that your expectation that the game be tailored to *you* is absurd. You are not barred from doing quests in Cyrodiil, you choose not to because you don't enjoy that gameplay. I do not begrudge anyone for that. But to actually feel entitled to a PVE version of content explicitly designed for PVP is not at all realistic.
except... none of the PVE quests in Cyrodil are in any way, shape or form - designed for pvp. explicitly or otherwise. they are pve quests.... set in a zone where other players can attack you. in every other way, they are your basic pve quests. so desire to be able to do them like regular pve quests? IS absolutely sound and logical. as for ease of combat in pve - you could if you wished - nerf yourself. go naked, reset cp, etc. you have that option. I do NOT have an option not to be attacked by other players when doing pve quests in Cyrodil.
Let's look at Cropsford.
*rides into Cropsford looking to quest*
A. I'm a walking target full of AP to any enemy player.
B. Cropsford has three Alliance War flags, that will grant AP if I capture the town, plus guards that will attack or defend me depending on which alliance owns the town. If my alliance doesnt own the town, good luck turning in quests
C. Cropsford has a transit point for whoever owns the town
D. Cropsford is a hop, skip, and a jump away from Drakelowe and a (new) outpost, and is often used as a staging point for attacks on those objectives
E. The delve one of those quests send you to grants an AP buff for killing the boss, used by people running for emperor.
Tell me again that none of the quests in Cyrodiil was designed for PVP?
Even in Chorrol and Cheydinhal, points A and E are still true. Everywhere we go in Cyrodiil, YOU and I are valid targets full of AP to enemy players.
The quests may not require you to kill enemy players.
However, they are certainly designed to promote conflict and encourage you to fight and kill enemy players.
sigh. yes, the quest to find a bottle of wine is designed to promote conflict, as the quest to poison some npc that did quest giver wrong. those are the 2 off the top of my head that I remember somewhat. somewhat becasue I had to SKIP ALL THAT DIALOGUE BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU INSIST ON PLACING STORIES IN SITUATIONS WHERE YOU CANNOT FULLY ENJOY THEM AND RESIST ANY AND ALL SUGGESTION TO FIX THAT.
ugh.
I hear your frustration.
That doesn't change any of the points I made in the post you replied to.
That quest to poison an NPC or find a bottle of wine still takes place in a PVP zone where you and I are valid targets, near PVP objectives, making PVP currency, and so on.
As far as I can tell, you want to slow down and enjoy questing without risk...in a War zone where you are an enemy player. In a zone where ZOS absolutely designed those quest areas to attract players for PVP reasons.
That just does not make sense to me. You willingly queued up for a PVP war zone and then you want to be exempt from the threat of PVP while you quest near PVP locations for PVP currency, as an enemy player.
How does that even make sense? At least, beyond a "I don't want to PVP, so I shouldnt have to" sense?
you are still. not. getting it.
it doesn't have. to be. warzone. it can. have. a pve. only. version
which will be beneficial for almost everyone, with possible exception of the type of gankers that love to prey on pve players.
and there is NOTHING. inherently. superior. to placing. story. rich. quests. in a zone. where your players. cannot. fully. enjoy. that. story.
Okay. So you want a PVE-only Cyrodiil/IC so you can quest.
That's a whole 'nother discussion in my book.
I'd be fine with a PVE-only Cyrodiil/IC if there are none of the rewards included. So you can quest if you like, but no AP, no achievements, no skyshards, no titles, no anniversary rewards, etc.
Why no rewards for skipping out on PVP?
Because ZOS intended for those rewards to be obtained with the threat of PVP.
Because, contrary to your belief, ZOS benefits from players going to PVP zones in order to get those rewards. That's because ZOS wants players to try ALL of the game, not just stay in their comfort zone. That's because ZOS benefits from players who know how both PVE and PVP work, since they balance them together. ZOS constantly expects players to play ALL of the game if they want ALL of the rewards, and there's no better example of that than events like the Anniversary or achievements like Tamriel Skyshard Hunter.
If you are fine with getting to experience the quests but no rewards because you have none of the risk, then we agree. I'm fine with that.
If you still want the rewards with none of the risk of PVP, we're going to have to just disagree. I'm not in favor of anyone getting the rewards ZOS deliberately put in a PVP zone while being exempt from the risk of PVP. That's just wanting ALL the rewards without playing ALL of the game.
I'm fine with that.
I'm still not the biggest fan of "lets gank players who are currently incapacitated by a skyshard claiming animation and cannot respond quickly enough to deal with your from stealth crit opener that kills a player in under 2 seconds", but even as they are still wasting my time, at least I'm not missing out on ACTUAL STORY.
caveat. fishing should be available in both pve and pvp version. there is NOTHING that is even remotely pvp related in fishing. and i say that as someone who actualy did do Cyrodil fishing achievement (... and all the skyshards including the ones behind castle gates... on more then one character for skyshards, not fishing)
the main thing i'm missing from Cyrodill is... you guessed it - story. i actualy did a few dailies that award ap, and they have about as much story to them as a *** movie, so I personaly don't care about not being able to do those, but there are little one time pve stories all over the place (that have NO ap or anything like that as a reward) and I only managed to do 2 of them, and I barely remember the gist of them, because at least fishing you can find out of the way spot for (other then ocean fish
) these stories, are in small hubs and that makes them more of a target for gankers.
and i'm STILL salty over missing large chunks of actual story for IC quest chain, because what i did manage to see - is pretty interesting, but as i said in IC story thread - the ONLY part where you can actualy relax and enjoy the story for its sake - is the very final quest. becasue its instanced. its difficult to impossible to do that story solo especially if you are interesting in, you know - absorbing it, in part becasue of ganking.
this is also a problem for dungeon quests, and of course, usual suspects argue that nooooooo, just find a group to do a story with, or git gud >_>
P.S. most pvp rewards are easier in battlegrounds anyways. and a whole lot more fun. those town dailies award pittance of an AP reward, might as well just way for daily login rewards when they come around. and vast majority of pvp specific gear - can be bought from traders.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 19, 2025 4:50PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »
I enjoy TES questing, but overland combat is now physically repulsive to me because it's _completely_ brain dead. I'm not exaggerating. I want to quest, but the terrible gameplay makes me feel nauseated. So I had to stop with CWC. Overland content is easy to the point it can't reasonably be considered a game anymore because it's practically impossible to lose -- even if you are disconnected.excuse me WHAT?
in what world can you not enjoy the stories in pve areas? in what world are they bared from you? [snip] story quests by definition are PVE.
When I play games, I need to feel engaged, and in ESO that can only happen in PVP.
But my point to you is that your expectation that the game be tailored to *you* is absurd. You are not barred from doing quests in Cyrodiil, you choose not to because you don't enjoy that gameplay. I do not begrudge anyone for that. But to actually feel entitled to a PVE version of content explicitly designed for PVP is not at all realistic.
except... none of the PVE quests in Cyrodil are in any way, shape or form - designed for pvp. explicitly or otherwise. they are pve quests.... set in a zone where other players can attack you. in every other way, they are your basic pve quests. so desire to be able to do them like regular pve quests? IS absolutely sound and logical. as for ease of combat in pve - you could if you wished - nerf yourself. go naked, reset cp, etc. you have that option. I do NOT have an option not to be attacked by other players when doing pve quests in Cyrodil.
Let's look at Cropsford.
*rides into Cropsford looking to quest*
A. I'm a walking target full of AP to any enemy player.
B. Cropsford has three Alliance War flags, that will grant AP if I capture the town, plus guards that will attack or defend me depending on which alliance owns the town. If my alliance doesnt own the town, good luck turning in quests
C. Cropsford has a transit point for whoever owns the town
D. Cropsford is a hop, skip, and a jump away from Drakelowe and a (new) outpost, and is often used as a staging point for attacks on those objectives
E. The delve one of those quests send you to grants an AP buff for killing the boss, used by people running for emperor.
Tell me again that none of the quests in Cyrodiil was designed for PVP?
Even in Chorrol and Cheydinhal, points A and E are still true. Everywhere we go in Cyrodiil, YOU and I are valid targets full of AP to enemy players.
The quests may not require you to kill enemy players.
However, they are certainly designed to promote conflict and encourage you to fight and kill enemy players.
sigh. yes, the quest to find a bottle of wine is designed to promote conflict, as the quest to poison some npc that did quest giver wrong. those are the 2 off the top of my head that I remember somewhat. somewhat becasue I had to SKIP ALL THAT DIALOGUE BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU INSIST ON PLACING STORIES IN SITUATIONS WHERE YOU CANNOT FULLY ENJOY THEM AND RESIST ANY AND ALL SUGGESTION TO FIX THAT.
ugh.
I hear your frustration.
That doesn't change any of the points I made in the post you replied to.
That quest to poison an NPC or find a bottle of wine still takes place in a PVP zone where you and I are valid targets, near PVP objectives, making PVP currency, and so on.
As far as I can tell, you want to slow down and enjoy questing without risk...in a War zone where you are an enemy player. In a zone where ZOS absolutely designed those quest areas to attract players for PVP reasons.
That just does not make sense to me. You willingly queued up for a PVP war zone and then you want to be exempt from the threat of PVP while you quest near PVP locations for PVP currency, as an enemy player.
How does that even make sense? At least, beyond a "I don't want to PVP, so I shouldnt have to" sense?
you are still. not. getting it.
it doesn't have. to be. warzone. it can. have. a pve. only. version
which will be beneficial for almost everyone, with possible exception of the type of gankers that love to prey on pve players.
and there is NOTHING. inherently. superior. to placing. story. rich. quests. in a zone. where your players. cannot. fully. enjoy. that. story.
Okay. So you want a PVE-only Cyrodiil/IC so you can quest.
That's a whole 'nother discussion in my book.
I'd be fine with a PVE-only Cyrodiil/IC if there are none of the rewards included. So you can quest if you like, but no AP, no achievements, no skyshards, no titles, no anniversary rewards, etc.
Why no rewards for skipping out on PVP?
Because ZOS intended for those rewards to be obtained with the threat of PVP.
Because, contrary to your belief, ZOS benefits from players going to PVP zones in order to get those rewards. That's because ZOS wants players to try ALL of the game, not just stay in their comfort zone. That's because ZOS benefits from players who know how both PVE and PVP work, since they balance them together. ZOS constantly expects players to play ALL of the game if they want ALL of the rewards, and there's no better example of that than events like the Anniversary or achievements like Tamriel Skyshard Hunter.
If you are fine with getting to experience the quests but no rewards because you have none of the risk, then we agree. I'm fine with that.
If you still want the rewards with none of the risk of PVP, we're going to have to just disagree. I'm not in favor of anyone getting the rewards ZOS deliberately put in a PVP zone while being exempt from the risk of PVP. That's just wanting ALL the rewards without playing ALL of the game.
I'm fine with that.
I'm still not the biggest fan of "lets gank players who are currently incapacitated by a skyshard claiming animation and cannot respond quickly enough to deal with your from stealth crit opener that kills a player in under 2 seconds", but even as they are still wasting my time, at least I'm not missing out on ACTUAL STORY.
caveat. fishing should be available in both pve and pvp version. there is NOTHING that is even remotely pvp related in fishing. and i say that as someone who actualy did do Cyrodil fishing achievement (... and all the skyshards including the ones behind castle gates... on more then one character for skyshards, not fishing)
the main thing i'm missing from Cyrodill is... you guessed it - story. i actualy did a few dailies that award ap, and they have about as much story to them as a *** movie, so I personaly don't care about not being able to do those, but there are little one time pve stories all over the place (that have NO ap or anything like that as a reward) and I only managed to do 2 of them, and I barely remember the gist of them, because at least fishing you can find out of the way spot for (other then ocean fish) these stories, are in small hubs and that makes them more of a target for gankers.
and i'm STILL salty over missing large chunks of actual story for IC quest chain, because what i did manage to see - is pretty interesting, but as i said in IC story thread - the ONLY part where you can actualy relax and enjoy the story for its sake - is the very final quest. becasue its instanced. its difficult to impossible to do that story solo especially if you are interesting in, you know - absorbing it, in part becasue of ganking.
this is also a problem for dungeon quests, and of course, usual suspects argue that nooooooo, just find a group to do a story with, or git gud >_>
P.S. most pvp rewards are easier in battlegrounds anyways. and a whole lot more fun. those town dailies award pittance of an AP reward, might as well just way for daily login rewards when they come around. and vast majority of pvp specific gear - can be bought from traders.
Okay, so we essentially agree on a PVE-story only Cyrodiil with no rewards.
Cool! Glad we agree on something
I just saw your edit to the other post, and for what it's worth, I'm not trying to convince you that it's wrong to dislike having PVP happen in the middle of your questing. That's a matter of preference, IMO, and some people like it and others don't.
What I was trying to argue is that in Cyrodiil and IC, ALL quests are fair game for PVP, since players are PVP targets, its a PVP zone, quests reward PVP currency, etc. So PVP should be expected as the rule, rather than the exception, in the current Cyrodiil and IC. There's a lot of players who want to quest in PVP zones, for rewards, with none of the risk because the quests are "PVE" when in reality, everything in Cyrodiil and IC is tied into PVP if its not in a safe instance (and those were rarely used in IC). That's not the case for you, since you are willing to forgo rewards in favor of safe questing, which I'm cool with.
My point, and I'm sorry if I failed to be clear on it, was more that questing in a PVP zone carries the constant threat of PVP by design, and that's exactly how ZOS intends it to be played in order to get the rewards. They designed the quests to bring about PVP conflict in a lot of ways.
You don't like questing in a PVP zone with the constant threat of PVP and that's a fine opinion. Its okay to not like that.
Not everything in game has to be what we like. I'd be happy if ZOS gave you a "quest only, no rewards" zone for you to enjoy.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 19, 2025 4:51PM2 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »
I enjoy TES questing, but overland combat is now physically repulsive to me because it's _completely_ brain dead. I'm not exaggerating. I want to quest, but the terrible gameplay makes me feel nauseated. So I had to stop with CWC. Overland content is easy to the point it can't reasonably be considered a game anymore because it's practically impossible to lose -- even if you are disconnected.excuse me WHAT?
in what world can you not enjoy the stories in pve areas? in what world are they bared from you? [snip] story quests by definition are PVE.
When I play games, I need to feel engaged, and in ESO that can only happen in PVP.
But my point to you is that your expectation that the game be tailored to *you* is absurd. You are not barred from doing quests in Cyrodiil, you choose not to because you don't enjoy that gameplay. I do not begrudge anyone for that. But to actually feel entitled to a PVE version of content explicitly designed for PVP is not at all realistic.
except... none of the PVE quests in Cyrodil are in any way, shape or form - designed for pvp. explicitly or otherwise. they are pve quests.... set in a zone where other players can attack you. in every other way, they are your basic pve quests. so desire to be able to do them like regular pve quests? IS absolutely sound and logical. as for ease of combat in pve - you could if you wished - nerf yourself. go naked, reset cp, etc. you have that option. I do NOT have an option not to be attacked by other players when doing pve quests in Cyrodil.
Let's look at Cropsford.
*rides into Cropsford looking to quest*
A. I'm a walking target full of AP to any enemy player.
B. Cropsford has three Alliance War flags, that will grant AP if I capture the town, plus guards that will attack or defend me depending on which alliance owns the town. If my alliance doesnt own the town, good luck turning in quests
C. Cropsford has a transit point for whoever owns the town
D. Cropsford is a hop, skip, and a jump away from Drakelowe and a (new) outpost, and is often used as a staging point for attacks on those objectives
E. The delve one of those quests send you to grants an AP buff for killing the boss, used by people running for emperor.
Tell me again that none of the quests in Cyrodiil was designed for PVP?
Even in Chorrol and Cheydinhal, points A and E are still true. Everywhere we go in Cyrodiil, YOU and I are valid targets full of AP to enemy players.
The quests may not require you to kill enemy players.
However, they are certainly designed to promote conflict and encourage you to fight and kill enemy players.
sigh. yes, the quest to find a bottle of wine is designed to promote conflict, as the quest to poison some npc that did quest giver wrong. those are the 2 off the top of my head that I remember somewhat. somewhat becasue I had to SKIP ALL THAT DIALOGUE BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU INSIST ON PLACING STORIES IN SITUATIONS WHERE YOU CANNOT FULLY ENJOY THEM AND RESIST ANY AND ALL SUGGESTION TO FIX THAT.
ugh.
A lot of these frustrations could be solved with some engineering. Create a small sanctuary zone around quest givers and skyshards where combat is disabled and combat NPCs can't attack so that PvP remains a little more fair.
I'd love this in PvE areas too. Pretty much every MMO I've played has a similar issue when mobs killed by another player respawn on top of you mid-cutscene and either interrupt the dialog (GW2, ESO) or kill you at the end of a cutscene (SWL-- I hate you, draug at the end scene of the Tyler Freeborn series). I think SWTOR was the only game that moved questgivers out of the way.
If zones could be implemented here, I might give IC a shot. Otherwise, barring a PvE only instance, I'll never touch it.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 19, 2025 4:45PM1 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't hate pvp when its battlegrounds. aka - instanced so I chose to do it. i hate pvp when I'm trying to quest or explore. why? its not about death per se, though it IS annoying in pvp situations becasue I don't get to respawn where I was killed in Cyrodill, I have to hoof it back from the nearest friendly castle or village which is a waste of my time.
its mainly about the fact that i can be careful and avoid AI deaths 100% of the time, but I cannot do the same with other players. the control is taken from me, because players are not programmed to leave me alone after I run far enough, or not attack me unless I get too close. players attack whenever they feel like and will keep chasing you for as long as it takes to kill you. they will also lay in wait to attack you when you are most vulnerable - while talking to a quest giver or grabbing a skyshard or on a loading screen, trying to get into a building..
PVE gives me full control. PVP takes it out of my hands far too often. I cannot just relax and do whatever I feel like in PVP. I can't really find a safe spot and walk away suddenly, because the only safe spots in pvp, are initial alliance bases. even castles are not safe. I cannot stop and listen to the quest giver, because enemy players could be lurking nearby to attack me. when pvp is JUST pvp, something you can chose to engage in, or avoid - it can be great fun and no, i don't care if I die over and over in battlegrounds, I don't feel humiliated one way or another, its kill or be killed and I've been known to laugh at particularly awesome deaths and then try to learn what they did so i could do that too. but what we have in ESO is pve within a pvp zone and you wonder why people hate it? WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO ENGAGE IN PVE WITHOUT SURPRISE PVP DROPPED ON OUR HEADS. it has nothing to do with feeling humiliated and EVERYTHING to do with our TIME BEING WASTED /end rant
Well I pvp and I do quests even farm in Cyro. Some dummy turning up from another faction is just an opportunity to fight. It spices it up.
Nowadays, most gankers who TRY to gank me are low level squishes with very poor target selection. Either I survive and they run away or I end up standing over their dead bodies.1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jainiadral wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »
I enjoy TES questing, but overland combat is now physically repulsive to me because it's _completely_ brain dead. I'm not exaggerating. I want to quest, but the terrible gameplay makes me feel nauseated. So I had to stop with CWC. Overland content is easy to the point it can't reasonably be considered a game anymore because it's practically impossible to lose -- even if you are disconnected.excuse me WHAT?
in what world can you not enjoy the stories in pve areas? in what world are they bared from you? [snip] story quests by definition are PVE.
When I play games, I need to feel engaged, and in ESO that can only happen in PVP.
But my point to you is that your expectation that the game be tailored to *you* is absurd. You are not barred from doing quests in Cyrodiil, you choose not to because you don't enjoy that gameplay. I do not begrudge anyone for that. But to actually feel entitled to a PVE version of content explicitly designed for PVP is not at all realistic.
except... none of the PVE quests in Cyrodil are in any way, shape or form - designed for pvp. explicitly or otherwise. they are pve quests.... set in a zone where other players can attack you. in every other way, they are your basic pve quests. so desire to be able to do them like regular pve quests? IS absolutely sound and logical. as for ease of combat in pve - you could if you wished - nerf yourself. go naked, reset cp, etc. you have that option. I do NOT have an option not to be attacked by other players when doing pve quests in Cyrodil.
Let's look at Cropsford.
*rides into Cropsford looking to quest*
A. I'm a walking target full of AP to any enemy player.
B. Cropsford has three Alliance War flags, that will grant AP if I capture the town, plus guards that will attack or defend me depending on which alliance owns the town. If my alliance doesnt own the town, good luck turning in quests
C. Cropsford has a transit point for whoever owns the town
D. Cropsford is a hop, skip, and a jump away from Drakelowe and a (new) outpost, and is often used as a staging point for attacks on those objectives
E. The delve one of those quests send you to grants an AP buff for killing the boss, used by people running for emperor.
Tell me again that none of the quests in Cyrodiil was designed for PVP?
Even in Chorrol and Cheydinhal, points A and E are still true. Everywhere we go in Cyrodiil, YOU and I are valid targets full of AP to enemy players.
The quests may not require you to kill enemy players.
However, they are certainly designed to promote conflict and encourage you to fight and kill enemy players.
sigh. yes, the quest to find a bottle of wine is designed to promote conflict, as the quest to poison some npc that did quest giver wrong. those are the 2 off the top of my head that I remember somewhat. somewhat becasue I had to SKIP ALL THAT DIALOGUE BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU INSIST ON PLACING STORIES IN SITUATIONS WHERE YOU CANNOT FULLY ENJOY THEM AND RESIST ANY AND ALL SUGGESTION TO FIX THAT.
ugh.
A lot of these frustrations could be solved with some engineering. Create a small sanctuary zone around quest givers and skyshards where combat is disabled and combat NPCs can't attack so that PvP remains a little more fair.
I'd love this in PvE areas too. Pretty much every MMO I've played has a similar issue when mobs killed by another player respawn on top of you mid-cutscene and either interrupt the dialog (GW2, ESO) or kill you at the end of a cutscene (SWL-- I hate you, draug at the end scene of the Tyler Freeborn series). I think SWTOR was the only game that moved questgivers out of the way.
If zones could be implemented here, I might give IC a shot. Otherwise, barring a PvE only instance, I'll never touch it.
That's one of the those solutions that's better on paper than in practice. The biggest issue is simply that if you create safe zones that aren't extremely limited, PVPers start abusing it to get a "time out" in combat or to mess with scroll runs or to set up attacks headed for other objectives, depending on the size of those zones. Or if you use a larger safe zone, whole areas get shut down for PVP, in a PVP zone. We know that interiors can be protected, so that limitation makes sense, but many of the Cyrodiil town quest NPCs and all of the skyshards are effectively "open air." Since Cyrodiil and IC are PVP zones, its a problem if the addition of new safe zones starts interfering with PVP.
ZOS used it very sparingly in IC to safeguard the interiors of some quest buildings and to instance the final IC quest. The rest of IC is completely open to PVP, and that's intended. There's even an achievement for killing players in the Arena, where one of the boss fights happens. The Nobles District quest's fights takes place in the very center of the district where all the side streets meet up - its a pretty large chunk of the district you'd be cordoning off with a safe zone. Same for the Elven Gardens District - I've fought and been killed by players while farming Tel Var in the foundry area where you go to make the key for the quest, for example.
But in Cyrodiil, aside from the interior of some quest buildings where it could be added without issues similar to IC, the quests take place in or around PVP objectives. Vlastarus, Bruma, and Cropsford all have PVP flags and transit. Bruma in particular sees a lot of conflict because its a great staging point for attacks on Dragonclaw, Bleakers, Aleswell, Chalman, and the EP tri-keeps. Or I look at Chorrol, where that lava pit is good for more than just trapping questers who run too fast on the bridges (which I have totally done ) and its used as a scroll running route or that scroll gets dumped in lava to troll. It would be very easy for PVPers to hop in and out of any open air safe zones during a fight in that area, allowing them to regain resources and reset the fight without being in danger until they leave the safe zone.
Now, its possible to imagine programming those "safe zones" to be more discriminating about who they make safe. We could go with that they don't work for scroll carriers, or you aren't safe unless you are "out of combat." But even there, we're getting more complex and complicated in an attempt to make the compromise work.
And its hard to work out a good size for open air safe zones. Too large, and you start interfering with regular PVP, because some of the skyshards and most of the towns are actually PVP objectives or right on scroll running routes. Too small, and you run the risk of the zones being effectively useless because they won't actually provide any protection. I contemplated suggesting "oh, you could grant immunity while people talk to quest NPCs!" and then realized, wait, that's actually not much protection at all, because someone can still watch and attack right before or right after.
So personally, I'd rather see a "quest only, no rewards" PVE version of IC or Cyrodiil, if its going to be done at all. Safe zones, except as building interiors, just don't work as well as I'd like without getting too complex - in part because PVP is actually very intertwined with the questing in Cyrodiil and IC. I could see a less complex but also less protective version of this working - just make players invulnerable while talking to quest NPCs, but that wouldn't actually prevent PVP, just make it more likely that you could react quicker.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 19, 2025 4:47PM1 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭People complain that overland questing is too easy and they prefer PvP.
And then kill PvErs doing quests or fishing.
I mean, what?!?
If people were serious about looking for a challenge and interesting gameplay in PvP, other players in Cropsford would only be a target if the front moved there, which is not all that often, and if it's obvious that people are just doing quests, would be left alone.
Because these players are usually not a what they would be looking for.
But people doing that are not looking for the excitement of a fight and challenging gameplay.
They are looking for the cheap gratification of an easy win.13 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Most nerfs come from the devs deciding that the content be it PvP or PvE is being too easily completed by players.3 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭People complain that overland questing is too easy and they prefer PvP.
And then kill PvErs doing quests or fishing.
I mean, what?!?
If people were serious about looking for a challenge and interesting gameplay in PvP, other players in Cropsford would only be a target if the front moved there, which is not all that often, and if it's obvious that people are just doing quests, would be left alone.
Because these players are usually not a what they would be looking for.
But people doing that are not looking for the excitement of a fight and challenging gameplay.
They are looking for the cheap gratification of an easy win.
Say it again Sam. They find pve to easy, yet prey on the weakest prey they can find? Tells you all you need to know.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway5 -
Minyassa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't hate PvP at all. In several other games I *adore* PvP. I am a naturally competitive person and I love going head to head with other people. I hate this game's PvP community. I hate teabaggers. I hate people who think it's okay to take advantage of game glitches and think that's fair. I hate hate-whisperers. I hate immature snots who are poor sports and have to spray their juvenile tomcat pee everywhere. I see a lot of that in ESO's PvP, and that's why I tend to stay away from it. I'd love PvP if it weren't so full of creeps.3 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't hate PvP at all. In several other games I *adore* PvP. I am a naturally competitive person and I love going head to head with other people. I hate this game's PvP community. I hate teabaggers. I hate people who think it's okay to take advantage of game glitches and think that's fair. I hate hate-whisperers. I hate immature snots who are poor sports and have to spray their juvenile tomcat pee everywhere. I see a lot of that in ESO's PvP, and that's why I tend to stay away from it. I'd love PvP if it weren't so full of creeps.
I must of missed that emote, where do you get it?
1 -
Slunksters✭✭PvEr here. I hate on => dumb <= PvPer who thinks it's OK to queue as a DD in random vet, join with there 30k HP, sword and shield and 2h backbar and when I try to nicely explain to them this is not normal, nor is it kindegarden. So when they deal less damage than the tank, manage to die to every stupid thing I warned them off, I hate on them.
If you don't know how to PvE and trust me, they do, you don't queue for veteran.
This is why I hate on some pvper.
I hate on PVE players who do the same thing I'm vet dungeon too.
Oh! Also when they suck, get carried hard, and feel that activating hard mode is a good idea, maybe they also want a million gold and an elephant wearing sneakers with that ?
Actually it's not on PVPers or PVErs I hate, I hate on the blatant lack of respect for others those people have.
I love PvPers queue for dungeon and start by WARNING the group they are clueless and like some help, even more when they listen and actually TRY.0 -
Banana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The increased lag. Higher ping and being killed within 2 seconds of finding some action is usually a shock to most people.1
