Hate for PvP

Jeremy

Banana wrote: »

The increased lag. Higher ping and being killed within 2 seconds of finding some action is usually a shock to most people.

It is.

I can't tell you how many newer players I've seen on this game who are all excited to try out PvP and Cyrodil. Then after they actually try it - I start getting whispers from them about how they are considering canceling their account. lol

BlueRaven

TequilaFire wrote: »

Most nerfs come from the devs deciding that the content be it PvP or PvE is being too easily completed by players.

No. Not really. PvP is the driving force for the changes.

Bosmer's have basically been turned into a "For PvP only" race.

They took out the PvE stun ability on Teleport strike because they did not want it to be different then it's PvP version.

Reflective Scale nerf is 100% because of PvP complaints.

Incapacitating Strike is now a silence, useless in PvE. In fact here is the developer note about the change, bold added for emphasis.

"After collecting much feedback from forum threads and other outlets, we noted a lot of the feedback on how Mangle's operation was far too niche in terms of engagement due to how the debuff works. While the theme was aimed at helping the Nightblade single out an opponent and put them closer to death's door, we missed the mark in delivery. We want to retain the idea of the Nightblade isolating their target and gaining a few precious seconds of denial on the target's ability to recuperate, but we wanted the defender to at least be able to reposition while those seconds count down, so we have removed the stun in place of a Silence. Additionally, much like Soul Harvest, there is a passive gained for slotting the ability. However, this passive effect makes up a much smaller portion of the ability’s power, since Silences are such powerful disabling tools."

(Do you seriously think they talking about npcs being able to reposition? Can trial bosses be silenced? Was there any thought given about the PvE usage for this ability?)

Do I have to keep going?

Instead of making each ability useful in PvE AND PvP environments, it seems like the developers are just making races and abilities aimed directly at PvP, while PvE players have to piece together a rotation from the scraps that are left.

Snipe is getting a 25% damage nerf? Why? Because of the PvP complaints, meanwhile Crystal Blast does much more damage. Why not just give them both the same cast time and damage? One is stamina based the other is magicka. It would be fine.

So now what exactly is a bow used for now without a major stamina spender in PvE? Just for adding a quick AoE and a DOT while the player switches to dual wield? It's stupid. But PvPer's kept complaining about desyncs or whatever in Cyrodiil and PvE players have to suffer for it.

The problem with PvP is that the players are NOT looking for a fair fight. They are not looking for balance.

They just want an advantage.

And if they can nerf everything that their opponents are doing so they they can just have the best class and spec that is 100% fine for them. Meanwhile PvE concerns are ignored. Oh, are you going to say that they are not? For weeks there was huge complaints about the PvE Bosmer changes. The developers did not care as the race was fine for PvP.

zyk

Despite all of its issues, the only things gamebreaking about Cyrodiil are the lag and bugs. If it actually worked properly, I think it would be extremely popular.

ESO actually has a MUCH higher Time to Kill than the vast majority of PVP games I've played. It gives all players the tools they need to survive in Cyrodiil if they have the mechanical skills.

I would love to see some of the Carebears here try Rust with its headshots and full looting.

Online PVP isn't like checkers with your grandfather or badminton at the cottage. It's not necessarily nice or friendly. People are allowed to be jerks to some degree and you just have to deal with it.

Modern life is safe enough. It's nice to shake off the shackles and go to war. I'm very left of center politically. I believe in social programs and improving mobility. I think those are essential concepts to move humanity forward. But those concepts have no place in an imaginary warzone where I go to pretend I'm fighting in a war.

DisgracefulMind

BlueRaven wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Most nerfs come from the devs deciding that the content be it PvP or PvE is being too easily completed by players.

No. Not really. PvP is the driving force for the changes.

Bosmer's have basically been turned into a "For PvP only" race.

They took out the PvE stun ability on Teleport strike because they did not want it to be different then it's PvP version.

Reflective Scale nerf is 100% because of PvP complaints.

Incapacitating Strike is now a silence, useless in PvE. In fact here is the developer note about the change, bold added for emphasis.

"After collecting much feedback from forum threads and other outlets, we noted a lot of the feedback on how Mangle's operation was far too niche in terms of engagement due to how the debuff works. While the theme was aimed at helping the Nightblade single out an opponent and put them closer to death's door, we missed the mark in delivery. We want to retain the idea of the Nightblade isolating their target and gaining a few precious seconds of denial on the target's ability to recuperate, but we wanted the defender to at least be able to reposition while those seconds count down, so we have removed the stun in place of a Silence. Additionally, much like Soul Harvest, there is a passive gained for slotting the ability. However, this passive effect makes up a much smaller portion of the ability’s power, since Silences are such powerful disabling tools."

(Do you seriously think they talking about npcs being able to reposition? Can trial bosses be silenced? Was there any thought given about the PvE usage for this ability?)

Do I have to keep going?

Instead of making each ability useful in PvE AND PvP environments, it seems like the developers are just making races and abilities aimed directly at PvP, while PvE players have to piece together a rotation from the scraps that are left.

Snipe is getting a 25% damage nerf? Why? Because of the PvP complaints, meanwhile Crystal Blast does much more damage. Why not just give them both the same cast time and damage? One is stamina based the other is magicka. It would be fine.

So now what exactly is a bow used for now without a major stamina spender in PvE? Just for adding a quick AoE and a DOT while the player switches to dual wield? It's stupid. But PvPer's kept complaining about desyncs or whatever in Cyrodiil and PvE players have to suffer for it.

The problem with PvP is that the players are NOT looking for a fair fight. They are not looking for balance.

They just want an advantage.

And if they can nerf everything that their opponents are doing so they they can just have the best class and spec that is 100% fine for them. Meanwhile PvE concerns are ignored. Oh, are you going to say that they are not? For weeks there was huge complaints about the PvE Bosmer changes. The developers did not care as the race was fine for PvP.

Bosmers have never been good in PvE. That's an issue ZoS has always ignored. They shouldn't ignore it, but they do.

Besides RP purposes, no one needed the stun of Teleport Strike in PvE.

Reflective Scale is definitely a PvP nerf, but a needed nerf nevertheless.

Incap didn't need its stun in PvE, and didn't need the defile.

Trial bosses aren't supposed to be silenced, and they couldn't be defiled and can't be stunned either.

Snipe also needed a nerf for PvP, sure. It was way too strong.

PvPers ARE looking for a fair fight and balance, else they wouldn't ask for OP things to be nerfed.

Should ZoS balance both separately? Yes. Will they? Nope.

BlueRaven

zyk wrote: »

Despite all of its issues, the only thing gamebreaking about Cyrodiil is the lag. If it actually worked properly, I think it would be extremely popular.

ESO actually has a MUCH higher Time to Kill than the vast majority of PVP games I've played. It gives all players the tools they need to survive in Cyrodiil if they have the mechanical skills.

I would love to see some of the Carebears here try Rust with its headshots and full looting.

Online PVP isn't like checkers with your grandfather or badminton at the cottage. It's not necessarily nice or friendly. People are allowed to be jerks to some degree and you just have to deal with it.

Modern life is safe enough. It's nice to shake off the shackles and go to war. I'm very left of center politically. I believe in social programs and improving mobility. I think those are essential concepts to move humanity forward. But those concepts have no place in an imaginary warzone where I go to pretend I'm fighting in a war.

Nope.

Modern life is stressful enough. I am looking for an escape when I play ESO.

And games like Rust should not be emulated as it's low sales are a result of it's awful PvP. Not many people play Conan or Eve for exactly the same reasons.

I was lucky, I got all of my Cyrodil achievements done before CP was around. There were plenty of BG servers, so some were true ghost towns where I could explore and do all of the quests in peace. I got to listen to the quest givers actually talk! And I got all of the sky shards there on four characters that way. I also got to talk with some of the non quest NPC's and really explore. I was even able to take bio breaks whenever I wanted, it was awesome!

I am glad I got that memory, because all of that is gone now.

And the IC story line quest, me and a friend went in on a nearly empty BG and did the quest line. Loved it! What an ending! And did you know there is a donkey kong easter egg in the sewers?

Will I go back and do it again? Nope. Not with the sewers now on their own servers and probably much more crowded in the future.

So much great story and interesting lore moments, effectively gone. At least I can buy the sky shards from there now. No reason to ever set foot in there again.

zyk

BlueRaven wrote: »

Nope.

Modern life is stressful enough. I am looking for an escape when I play ESO.

And I don't fault you for that. Just don't expect players in a PVP warzone to take that into consideration. Like I said, PVP isn't for everyone just like ESO PVE isn't for me.

The point is that this is all imaginary. If someone doesn't want to complete PVP content because they don't like PVP, there's no problem that needs to be fixed because this is all optional entertainment.

ibkickin

From my somewhat brief experience with this games PvP I can confidently say I'm one of the extremists who REALLY hate the PvP part of ESO. There's no other feeling like going into a Battleground with a lust and craving for the heat of battle, just to be two shot. New players and low levels get the short end of the stick and are nothing more than free kills to high level opponents.

I can accept there will always be someone better than me, hell I can even accept an occasional losing streak. But losing because my gear wasn't better than there's or even close? That brings out ALLLL the salt out of me. Winning shouldn't be determined by "who has the bigger numbers and meta setup" (at least not completely) it should be about skill and self-improvement.

As it is right now your gear affects your odds of winning fairly big but that isn't to say it shouldn't have a spot at all in PvP, as it can create varied playstyles. And yes I'm well aware of the argument "But someone lower than 810 and isn't min maxed can still hurr durr durr" and what I'll say in response to that is that persons skill overcame the large wall in his path...That person is a god amongst men and is an exception, not the rule.

All I really want is some normalizer that can adjust damage values to make all players have fairly even damage going into a Battleground, premades are a can of worms I don't want to open.

Chadak

I don't hate it. I find it to be repetitive and boring.

I know some people like to sing the praises of 'but, human opponents!', but you know what?

They do the same stuff every single time. Same stuff. Same ways of doing the same stuff. Same gimmicks.

If you know the mechanics, you've learned the hard limits of what your fellow humans can do. It's painting by numbers. You get eight colors and you're not mixing them differently than anyone else or you're building trash that won't survive a hard sneeze.

PvE is also repetitive, but at least there's story content to it. PvP's got...nothing. Just a big boring map full of the same tired FOTM builds, and no. No, it really isn't new or fresh every time.

You're just a human, the same as the million before you. You don't hit WASD better than the last guy. You don't spam the same junk or travel in gank duos or zergs better or differently than most everyone else.

I'm honestly utterly bored by it. I do great against folks I've got better reflexes than. I get minced by those that have better reflexes than me.

I dunno. Some people seem to love it to death. I can't even see the vaguest point to it because there's no story and the mechanics are so limited that you do A, B or C in ways 1, 2 or 3, or you're just being silly and wasting your time.

Beardimus

I think its a mixed bag of reasons

It's a steep learning curve, for some that's too much effort and it doesn't interest them, they come get wiped as not setup and it feels a monumental task to get better

For others the thought of a player beating them is too much

For a few on here it seems they have never been in pvp, but they have built up some hyped feeling that all PvPers are evil spitefull ganking tea baggers (and thus when they do come, into gank alley like IC event or Cyro Towns with event on the first bag that happens backs up their feelings...etc etc)

I play both, and the worst player behaviour / elitism I've seen is not in PvP. It's trials etc. Was more clicky etc

But regardless you like what you like, and should just leave others too it. Fishing is dull as dishwater to ne, but id never scorn a master angler as each to their own.

Beardimus

Ildun wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

I hear what you're saying, but no, not really. Surprise attack =\= ganking

A surprise attack on an undergeared, unaware PvE player is not ganking.

Yeah, I heard it is call as griefing. They do not do it for any benefit, but just to irritate or ruin other player's gaming experience.

Nonsense.

zyk

ibkickin wrote: »

As it is right now your gear affects your odds of winning fairly big but that isn't to say it shouldn't have a spot at all in PvP, as it can create varied playstyles. And yes I'm well aware of the argument "But someone lower than 810 and isn't min maxed can still hurr durr durr" and what I'll say in response to that is that persons skill overcame the large wall in his path...That person is a god amongst men and is an exception, not the rule.

Yes, of course gear choices matter and players who play according to the rules by building optimally will have an advantage over those who do not.

ESO was conceived when World of Warcraft was close to its peak more than 10 years ago. MMOs were different then. In those days, The Fires of Heaven forums was still the epicenter of a huge community of MMO enthusiasts. Casual players followed raid guilds much like Streamers are followed today.

So Zenimax created ZOS and hired MMO vet devs create the ultimate MMO that would be all things to all players. They designed a game with incredible depth through complex systems for all kinds of MMO enthusiasts: Crafters, Raiders, Explorers, Traders, PVP players, etc..

Unfortunately, during the 7 or so years ESO was in development, the market changed. WoW peaked and the sub model began to fail across the board. The FoH generation of MMO players was now older with more responsibilities and less time. PC gaming had become as mainstream as TV or films.

Skyrim happened. It was a sales phenom, outselling the rest of the series combined by far, meaning it actually supplanted the previous TES audience.

By the time ESO launched late, the audience it was designed for was different and intolerant of a broken, unfinished product. They left ESO by the time Archeage launched six months later and did not look back. ESO was dead to them. Veterans of that period will remember all of the zombie guilds.

So ZOS shifted lanes and gave Skyrim fans the MMO they were looking for. Vet level difficulty was quickly nerfed by update 2, and the development priorities changed completely. ESO was supposed to have epic raids featuring more players than 12. AvA was supposed to have twice as many features as it has. But all of this enthusiast content was permanently shelved.

The first DLCs, released in 2015, Imperial City and Orsinium were still very appealing to fans of classic MMOs, but would be the last of their kind. After that, DLCs were generally more like episodic single player/coop games.

The result is a game with complexity that its target audience isn't interested in and never really learns -- like really, I bet most don't know the basics like block/dodge/break-free costs. Most have no idea how damage and mitigation are calculated. Not because they can't learn, but because they just don't enjoy it.

I don't fault anyone for not being a fan of complex mechanics. ZOS changed most of ESO so that those mechanics don't really matter, but in PVP they do. Unlike most of the rest of the game, one must design their characters according to the rules.

That does not mean one must use cookie cutter builds. It means they must anticipate the challenges they will encounter in the environments they plan to fight in and build according to them. That's a core part of the gameplay.

Androconium

the only things gamebreaking about Cyrodiil are the lag and bugs.

What else have the Romans done for us?

EDS604

I don't hate pvp, what i do hate are pvpers queuing for vet dungeons and expecting a carry, wearing full impen armor, running bow + 1h shield, spamming snipe and bow LA, doing 5k dps, rushing up front ruining tank's pulls, and go salty when they die of their own stupidity. When I go cyrodiil for my campaign rewards, i make sure i am running pvp gear and have skills slotted for pvp and actually try to make an effort for my group to succeed, think a lot of pve players do this tbh, the other way around not so much.

Aznarb

As a PvE player, I don't like PvP because of how it work.
Everyone wear heavy, with almost the same build and the same class, kinda boring.

I don't like it, but don't hate it, can be fun with friend, was grinding alliance rank (no finished yet) with a friend, 2 PvE build, in BG and we just go together trying to get some fun at least.

He was on a no-summon sorcerer pve build, was on my templar healer build, I just add ally ward and remembrance and dunno if we was good or other was very bad, but we melt them and just can't stop laughing on discord xD

I still don't like PvP, but it's not totally bad tbh, I just don't like how regen and skill efficiency change w/o any tool tips in game.
Heal are weak, mana consummation is insane w/o a full regen build and like I said, every one is running around with almost the same build when they want to be "competitive"

Coming from a guy who played on most MMORPG in high level pvp.
I just don't like how it work on this one.

EDIT :
Also faction locked at char creation is stupid.
You can't know with which futur guild/mate you're gonna play in the future.
I'm the only one from DC in my guild, we can't even play together, that the most stupid thing i've ever seen in a game..

If you want faction, than go full for it with faction nation where only faction guys can guild/party together, if not don't make faction pvp.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Most nerfs come from the devs deciding that the content be it PvP or PvE is being too easily completed by players.

No. Not really. PvP is the driving force for the changes.

Bosmer's have basically been turned into a "For PvP only" race.

They took out the PvE stun ability on Teleport strike because they did not want it to be different then it's PvP version.

Reflective Scale nerf is 100% because of PvP complaints.

Incapacitating Strike is now a silence, useless in PvE. In fact here is the developer note about the change, bold added for emphasis.

"After collecting much feedback from forum threads and other outlets, we noted a lot of the feedback on how Mangle's operation was far too niche in terms of engagement due to how the debuff works. While the theme was aimed at helping the Nightblade single out an opponent and put them closer to death's door, we missed the mark in delivery. We want to retain the idea of the Nightblade isolating their target and gaining a few precious seconds of denial on the target's ability to recuperate, but we wanted the defender to at least be able to reposition while those seconds count down, so we have removed the stun in place of a Silence. Additionally, much like Soul Harvest, there is a passive gained for slotting the ability. However, this passive effect makes up a much smaller portion of the ability’s power, since Silences are such powerful disabling tools."

(Do you seriously think they talking about npcs being able to reposition? Can trial bosses be silenced? Was there any thought given about the PvE usage for this ability?)

Do I have to keep going?

Instead of making each ability useful in PvE AND PvP environments, it seems like the developers are just making races and abilities aimed directly at PvP, while PvE players have to piece together a rotation from the scraps that are left.

Snipe is getting a 25% damage nerf? Why? Because of the PvP complaints, meanwhile Crystal Blast does much more damage. Why not just give them both the same cast time and damage? One is stamina based the other is magicka. It would be fine.

So now what exactly is a bow used for now without a major stamina spender in PvE? Just for adding a quick AoE and a DOT while the player switches to dual wield? It's stupid. But PvPer's kept complaining about desyncs or whatever in Cyrodiil and PvE players have to suffer for it.

The problem with PvP is that the players are NOT looking for a fair fight. They are not looking for balance.

They just want an advantage.

And if they can nerf everything that their opponents are doing so they they can just have the best class and spec that is 100% fine for them. Meanwhile PvE concerns are ignored. Oh, are you going to say that they are not? For weeks there was huge complaints about the PvE Bosmer changes. The developers did not care as the race was fine for PvP.

PvPers ARE looking for a fair fight and balance, else they wouldn't ask for OP things to be nerfed.

In real warfare are things constantly nerfed or “fair”? Nope.

TequilaFire

BlueRaven wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Most nerfs come from the devs deciding that the content be it PvP or PvE is being too easily completed by players.

No. Not really. PvP is the driving force for the changes.

Bosmer's have basically been turned into a "For PvP only" race.

They took out the PvE stun ability on Teleport strike because they did not want it to be different then it's PvP version.

Reflective Scale nerf is 100% because of PvP complaints.

Incapacitating Strike is now a silence, useless in PvE. In fact here is the developer note about the change, bold added for emphasis.

"After collecting much feedback from forum threads and other outlets, we noted a lot of the feedback on how Mangle's operation was far too niche in terms of engagement due to how the debuff works. While the theme was aimed at helping the Nightblade single out an opponent and put them closer to death's door, we missed the mark in delivery. We want to retain the idea of the Nightblade isolating their target and gaining a few precious seconds of denial on the target's ability to recuperate, but we wanted the defender to at least be able to reposition while those seconds count down, so we have removed the stun in place of a Silence. Additionally, much like Soul Harvest, there is a passive gained for slotting the ability. However, this passive effect makes up a much smaller portion of the ability’s power, since Silences are such powerful disabling tools."

(Do you seriously think they talking about npcs being able to reposition? Can trial bosses be silenced? Was there any thought given about the PvE usage for this ability?)

Do I have to keep going?

Instead of making each ability useful in PvE AND PvP environments, it seems like the developers are just making races and abilities aimed directly at PvP, while PvE players have to piece together a rotation from the scraps that are left.

Snipe is getting a 25% damage nerf? Why? Because of the PvP complaints, meanwhile Crystal Blast does much more damage. Why not just give them both the same cast time and damage? One is stamina based the other is magicka. It would be fine.

So now what exactly is a bow used for now without a major stamina spender in PvE? Just for adding a quick AoE and a DOT while the player switches to dual wield? It's stupid. But PvPer's kept complaining about desyncs or whatever in Cyrodiil and PvE players have to suffer for it.

The problem with PvP is that the players are NOT looking for a fair fight. They are not looking for balance.

They just want an advantage.

And if they can nerf everything that their opponents are doing so they they can just have the best class and spec that is 100% fine for them. Meanwhile PvE concerns are ignored. Oh, are you going to say that they are not? For weeks there was huge complaints about the PvE Bosmer changes. The developers did not care as the race was fine for PvP.

Your mind is made up and closed.
So no point in rebuttal no matter what the facts are.

VaranisArano

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Most nerfs come from the devs deciding that the content be it PvP or PvE is being too easily completed by players.

No. Not really. PvP is the driving force for the changes.

Bosmer's have basically been turned into a "For PvP only" race.

They took out the PvE stun ability on Teleport strike because they did not want it to be different then it's PvP version.

Reflective Scale nerf is 100% because of PvP complaints.

Incapacitating Strike is now a silence, useless in PvE. In fact here is the developer note about the change, bold added for emphasis.

"After collecting much feedback from forum threads and other outlets, we noted a lot of the feedback on how Mangle's operation was far too niche in terms of engagement due to how the debuff works. While the theme was aimed at helping the Nightblade single out an opponent and put them closer to death's door, we missed the mark in delivery. We want to retain the idea of the Nightblade isolating their target and gaining a few precious seconds of denial on the target's ability to recuperate, but we wanted the defender to at least be able to reposition while those seconds count down, so we have removed the stun in place of a Silence. Additionally, much like Soul Harvest, there is a passive gained for slotting the ability. However, this passive effect makes up a much smaller portion of the ability’s power, since Silences are such powerful disabling tools."

(Do you seriously think they talking about npcs being able to reposition? Can trial bosses be silenced? Was there any thought given about the PvE usage for this ability?)

Do I have to keep going?

Instead of making each ability useful in PvE AND PvP environments, it seems like the developers are just making races and abilities aimed directly at PvP, while PvE players have to piece together a rotation from the scraps that are left.

Snipe is getting a 25% damage nerf? Why? Because of the PvP complaints, meanwhile Crystal Blast does much more damage. Why not just give them both the same cast time and damage? One is stamina based the other is magicka. It would be fine.

So now what exactly is a bow used for now without a major stamina spender in PvE? Just for adding a quick AoE and a DOT while the player switches to dual wield? It's stupid. But PvPer's kept complaining about desyncs or whatever in Cyrodiil and PvE players have to suffer for it.

The problem with PvP is that the players are NOT looking for a fair fight. They are not looking for balance.

They just want an advantage.

And if they can nerf everything that their opponents are doing so they they can just have the best class and spec that is 100% fine for them. Meanwhile PvE concerns are ignored. Oh, are you going to say that they are not? For weeks there was huge complaints about the PvE Bosmer changes. The developers did not care as the race was fine for PvP.

PvPers ARE looking for a fair fight and balance, else they wouldn't ask for OP things to be nerfed.

In real warfare are things constantly nerfed or “fair”? Nope.

Ah, the "real warfare" analogy. In a video game where Cyrodiil and PVE bears very little resemblance to "real warfare" beyond a surface level.

In "real warfare", there's no one trying to balance weapons for use against BOTH other Players and PVE Bosses.

You see, the Devs sort of care about balancing skills against Players, because Players complain.

But you know what they really care about?

Balancing skills vs. Bosses.

They really care about PVE power creep. Because when PVEers get too powerful, they start ripping through ESO's hardest content, calling it easy, and thinking about moving on to other games. There's $$$$ to be made in that new content. Too powerful PVEers threaten ZOS right in the pocketbook.

That means the Devs have to either (A) Design new, harder content that most of the player base can't touch, or (B.) Nerf PVEers.

The Great Sustain Nerfs of Morrowind and #Nerfmire were absolutely the Devs choosing to nerf PVEers rather than design new content that the majority of the playerbase can't touch. And the PVEers were shocked! Because they liked being powerful and were shocked that the Devs might consider it a BAD thing that PVEers were too powerful.

Or in other words, most PVEers never consider that they are playing, in a very real sense, against the Devs and the dungeon/trial designers when they play end-game PVE. If those Developers notice/complain that PVEers are too powerful, if certain sets are overused or overperforming, if certain classes are over-represented, etc... Well, you get an idea of why ZOS does major nerfs to PVE. The Developers do not want to design content that's out of reach of most players, nor to they want PVEers having an easy time in end-game content, because that's risking their $$$ from sales.

Starlock

Reasons why I don't like PvP in ESO:

• I'm not a competitive person just in general. I hate watching how it brings out the worst in people and makes them act like disrespectful scumbags. I would rather cultivate positivity in my life than deal with that nonsense.
• The developers made the mistake of combining PvE and PvP in this game. As a result, changes made for PvP adversely effect PvE gameplay on a routine basis. And it seems to be getting worse, not better.
• The PvP in this game is essentially unplayable. I can't believe anyone actually bothers with it. Not only is there a complete lack of character balance, there's a complete lack of basic gameplay performance. If I die or kill anything, it is sheer luck of smashing buttons and somehow things working in between the terrible frame rates and input delays. That's not fun, it's just stupid. If the rare mood strikes to play a competitive PvP game, ESO is therefore the last game I would consider for this.

Ri_Khan

Why do players even feel the need to identify as a PVE or PVP'er anyway?

Seems like there's more clever ways of admitting you suck at the other half of the game.

Starlock

BlueRaven wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Most nerfs come from the devs deciding that the content be it PvP or PvE is being too easily completed by players.

No. Not really. PvP is the driving force for the changes.

Bosmer's have basically been turned into a "For PvP only" race.

They took out the PvE stun ability on Teleport strike because they did not want it to be different then it's PvP version.

Reflective Scale nerf is 100% because of PvP complaints.

Incapacitating Strike is now a silence, useless in PvE. In fact here is the developer note about the change, bold added for emphasis.

"After collecting much feedback from forum threads and other outlets, we noted a lot of the feedback on how Mangle's operation was far too niche in terms of engagement due to how the debuff works. While the theme was aimed at helping the Nightblade single out an opponent and put them closer to death's door, we missed the mark in delivery. We want to retain the idea of the Nightblade isolating their target and gaining a few precious seconds of denial on the target's ability to recuperate, but we wanted the defender to at least be able to reposition while those seconds count down, so we have removed the stun in place of a Silence. Additionally, much like Soul Harvest, there is a passive gained for slotting the ability. However, this passive effect makes up a much smaller portion of the ability’s power, since Silences are such powerful disabling tools."

(Do you seriously think they talking about npcs being able to reposition? Can trial bosses be silenced? Was there any thought given about the PvE usage for this ability?)

Do I have to keep going?

Instead of making each ability useful in PvE AND PvP environments, it seems like the developers are just making races and abilities aimed directly at PvP, while PvE players have to piece together a rotation from the scraps that are left.

Snipe is getting a 25% damage nerf? Why? Because of the PvP complaints, meanwhile Crystal Blast does much more damage. Why not just give them both the same cast time and damage? One is stamina based the other is magicka. It would be fine.

So now what exactly is a bow used for now without a major stamina spender in PvE? Just for adding a quick AoE and a DOT while the player switches to dual wield? It's stupid. But PvPer's kept complaining about desyncs or whatever in Cyrodiil and PvE players have to suffer for it.

The problem with PvP is that the players are NOT looking for a fair fight. They are not looking for balance.

They just want an advantage.

And if they can nerf everything that their opponents are doing so they they can just have the best class and spec that is 100% fine for them. Meanwhile PvE concerns are ignored. Oh, are you going to say that they are not? For weeks there was huge complaints about the PvE Bosmer changes. The developers did not care as the race was fine for PvP.

QFT. I've noticed the game changes being shoved down our throats for PvP purposes getting worse lately. It's something I'm watching closely as it is hugely concerning to me. Within the last year it has been really bad. What's worse is I just do not understand the justification. Removing the stun on Teleport Strike pisses me off. There was literally no reason to make that change, but they did it anyway. In fact, that an ability existed in the game that had different effects in PvP and PvE proves that the developers could balance them separately.. We need MORE abilities that worked like Teleport Strike, not fewer of them. After next patch, I will never use Teleport Strike again. Just like I never use Time Stop either. So freaking stupid.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

Starlock wrote: »

Reasons why I don't like PvP in ESO:

• I'm not a competitive person just in general. I hate watching how it brings out the worst in people and makes them act like disrespectful scumbags. I would rather cultivate positivity in my life than deal with that nonsense.
• The developers made the mistake of combining PvE and PvP in this game. As a result, changes made for PvP adversely effect PvE gameplay on a routine basis. And it seems to be getting worse, not better.
• The PvP in this game is essentially unplayable. I can't believe anyone actually bothers with it. Not only is there a complete lack of character balance, there's a complete lack of basic gameplay performance. If I die or kill anything, it is sheer luck of smashing buttons and somehow things working in between the terrible frame rates and input delays. That's not fun, it's just stupid. If the rare mood strikes to play a competitive PvP game, ESO is therefore the last game I would consider for this.

Honestly ^ this is true
I’d rather do overland content before PvP or endgame whatever because it just brings out the absolute worst in people and I’d rather not be involved with such toxicity. Plus I’m probably the only person that actually likes listening to NPC dialogue ((except the fetch these quests) and I still wish they used Molag’s va for Skyrim because I could listen to that all day long)

Linaleah

Ri_Khan wrote: »

Why do players even feel the need to identify as a PVE or PVP'er anyway?

Seems like there's more clever ways of admitting you suck at the other half of the game.

because. its not. about. suck. its. about. what. you have. more fun. with.

literally, a preference.

ibkickin

Linaleah wrote: »

Ri_Khan wrote: »

Why do players even feel the need to identify as a PVE or PVP'er anyway?

Seems like there's more clever ways of admitting you suck at the other half of the game.

because. its not. about. suck. its. about. what. you have. more fun. with.

literally, a preference.

Purge the PvE heathens!

quadraxis666

PVE players hate PVP players because every single time a useful PVE skill is changed or nerfed, [snip]

[edited for baiting]

TequilaFire

quadraxis666 wrote: »

PVE players hate PVP players because every single time a useful PVE skill is changed or nerfed, [snip]

This is a myth that propagates from posts like yours.
Many nerfs came about because of PvE players complaining that one class out parsed another class.

[edited to remove quote]

Malmai

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Becuase pvp is more competitive...like sport...if ur beating timer ur less annoyed then if a another dude is faster than u for example...human beings are jealous and spiteful..having another dude bash their skkulls is kinda humiliating..but not really...and that shows

Maybe you are jealous. Reason is nobody doesnt want to beaten like irl... Or do you?

Sevn

Totally unfair to blame pvp for all the nerfs. You should look at your fellow pver's who constantly make threads stating the game is too easy! I can beat WB's with a naked level 5! I can solo a 12 man trial with a level 20!

It's much easier and cheaper to just nerf the players instead of adding additional challenges to the game, which so many foolishly believe ZOS would bother doing by complaining about the difficulty.

Blame them as well.

JumpmanLane

ibkickin wrote: »

From my somewhat brief experience with this games PvP I can confidently say I'm one of the extremists who REALLY hate the PvP part of ESO. There's no other feeling like going into a Battleground with a lust and craving for the heat of battle, just to be two shot. New players and low levels get the short end of the stick and are nothing more than free kills to high level opponents.

I can accept there will always be someone better than me, hell I can even accept an occasional losing streak. But losing because my gear wasn't better than there's or even close? That brings out ALLLL the salt out of me. Winning shouldn't be determined by "who has the bigger numbers and meta setup" (at least not completely) it should be about skill and self-improvement.

As it is right now your gear affects your odds of winning fairly big but that isn't to say it shouldn't have a spot at all in PvP, as it can create varied playstyles. And yes I'm well aware of the argument "But someone lower than 810 and isn't min maxed can still hurr durr durr" and what I'll say in response to that is that persons skill overcame the large wall in his path...That person is a god amongst men and is an exception, not the rule.

All I really want is some normalizer that can adjust damage values to make all players have fairly even damage going into a Battleground, premades are a can of worms I don't want to open.

Gear is not carrying the best players in the game. Skill is. You’re not losing to an experienced, properly geared min maxer who understands his build fully and actually knows how to play because of GEAR. LOL.

The great equalizer you seek is actively getting better at the game.

oddbasket

I don't think PVE players actually hate PVP as long as they can simply ignore it, but I think some do have issues with grinding skills in PVP to use in PVE, and the rebalancing of skills from the PVP perspective. There are probably more PVE players than PVP, but most of them play casually and are nonchalant about such things.

The reverse is also true, since there'd been some vocal PVPers about needing to grind skill points and level up Mage's, Fighter's, Undaunted, Psijic skill lines.

However, I think the dissatisfaction is more skewed towards PVPers since they are forced to do more PVE to improve their characters, where for most PVErs it's more subjective as they can choose to totally ignore PVP.

Watchdog

oddbasket wrote: »

I don't think PVE players actually hate PVP as long as they can simply ignore it, but I think some do have issues with grinding skills in PVP to use in PVE, and the rebalancing of skills from the PVP perspective. There are probably more PVE players than PVP, but most of them play casually and are nonchalant about such things.

The reverse is also true, since there'd been some vocal PVPers about needing to grind skill points and level up Mage's, Fighter's, Undaunted, Psijic skill lines.

However, I think the dissatisfaction is more skewed towards PVPers since they are forced to do more PVE to improve their characters, where for most PVErs it's more subjective as they can choose to totally ignore PVP.

Until they are told they simply must have Caltrops slotted to be allowed to join a group to do some of the endgame content.