I don't hate pvp when its battlegrounds. aka - instanced so I chose to do it. i hate pvp when I'm trying to quest or explore. why? its not about death per se, though it IS annoying in pvp situations becasue I don't get to respawn where I was killed in Cyrodill, I have to hoof it back from the nearest friendly castle or village which is a waste of my time.

its mainly about the fact that i can be careful and avoid AI deaths 100% of the time, but I cannot do the same with other players. the control is taken from me, because players are not programmed to leave me alone after I run far enough, or not attack me unless I get too close. players attack whenever they feel like and will keep chasing you for as long as it takes to kill you. they will also lay in wait to attack you when you are most vulnerable - while talking to a quest giver or grabbing a skyshard or on a loading screen, trying to get into a building..

PVE gives me full control. PVP takes it out of my hands far too often. I cannot just relax and do whatever I feel like in PVP. I can't really find a safe spot and walk away suddenly, because the only safe spots in pvp, are initial alliance bases. even castles are not safe. I cannot stop and listen to the quest giver, because enemy players could be lurking nearby to attack me. when pvp is JUST pvp, something you can chose to engage in, or avoid - it can be great fun and no, i don't care if I die over and over in battlegrounds, I don't feel humiliated one way or another, its kill or be killed and I've been known to laugh at particularly awesome deaths and then try to learn what they did so i could do that too. but what we have in ESO is pve within a pvp zone and you wonder why people hate it? WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO ENGAGE IN PVE WITHOUT SURPRISE PVP DROPPED ON OUR HEADS. it has nothing to do with feeling humiliated and EVERYTHING to do with our TIME BEING WASTED /end rant

@Linaleah

I'm pretty sure there are tons of people who like open PvP in an mmo and Cyrodiil is the place for that. That thrill you're talking about, questing while having the risk of getting attacked? That's something many people like because it's just more thrilling, which makes it entertaining. The unsafe feeling in Cyrodiil makes it fun and even I sometimes spend time there despite not liking Cyrodiil. So there are regular things to do there like questing/fishing because Cyrodiil doesn't mean just players killing players. That's the place for players who want to enjoy the game like other PvE players do but with added feature of open PvP. It would make zero sense to not put anything except for PvP battles there. Of course there will be quests. Cyrodiil is PvPvE it's simple as that. If you have a problem with that, don't go to Cyrodiil. There are tons of quests in other zones.

I find it ridiculous that some people think of Cyrodiil as "PvE content in PvP zone which forces PvE players to do PvP". No it's not like that. It's made for people who want to be able to quest in a PvP enabled environment.

Do you want to do every single quest in the game? Then you're gonna have to experience PvP because when you chose to be a PvE player, you decided to not have everything this game has to offer. You can't just decide to play only a portion of the game but be able to complete everything.

All i hear is bla bla bla...

PvP and PvE are both a core part of the game, i play a game not a part of it.
Some weeks i'm all about PvE
Some weeks i'm all about PvP

I build my toons to do everything, i have Dungeon ready toons, Battleground/no CP ready toons, Open world PvP/kiting ready toons, Vet trials ready toons.

Usually i switch when i get frustrated of one part or the other (PvE progression or bad PvP days), i don't care about other players i found the worst in both sides and i've learned how to avoid them.

I'm here for the ES lore, the world the fun of playng a game, this week i've found entertaining to do housing and wasted almost two million golds to play the sims medieval style, Next week it will be necromancer week with a lot of questing and PvE .

After all this is my first mmorpg, before this i had only single player adventures for PvE, Unreal Tournament with my friends or fighting games for PvP, having everything in the same game is just a plus for me.
That's why i'm still not bored after 5 years of this game.

Keep up fighting PvE vs PvP while 80% of the ingame pop don't care plays whathever and enjoy the game.

MrBumblefoot wrote: »

@Linaleah

I'm pretty sure there are tons of people who like open PvP in an mmo and Cyrodiil is the place for that. That thrill you're talking about, questing while having the risk of getting attacked? That's something many people like because it's just more thrilling, which makes it entertaining. The unsafe feeling in Cyrodiil makes it fun and even I sometimes spend time there despite not liking Cyrodiil. So there are regular things to do there like questing/fishing because Cyrodiil doesn't mean just players killing players. That's the place for players who want to enjoy the game like other PvE players do but with added feature of open PvP. It would make zero sense to not put anything except for PvP battles there. Of course there will be quests. Cyrodiil is PvPvE it's simple as that. If you have a problem with that, don't go to Cyrodiil. There are tons of quests in other zones.

I find it ridiculous that some people think of Cyrodiil as "PvE content in PvP zone which forces PvE players to do PvP". No it's not like that. It's made for people who want to be able to quest in a PvP enabled environment.

Do you want to do every single quest in the game? Then you're gonna have to experience PvP because when you chose to be a PvE player, you decided to not have everything this game has to offer. You can't just decide to play only a portion of the game but be able to complete everything.

yes and in other games those people get their own separate pvp enabled servers. but the question was... why do pve players dislike pvp? this is why. not everyone is bothered by it but those of us that are? do NOT enjoy this dynamic. and as I said, in other games - there are separate server shards that have pvp enabled for those who like that uncertainty of whether they would be able to accomplish what they wanted to in game and don't mind being farmed. and those of us who would rather quest in peace? get to quest in peace.

it.
is
a
preference
in play
dynamic.

and yes, it would absolutely make sense to have pvp only zone. as well as Cyrodil that is pve only.

and no, i don't go there, but I DISLIKE PVP FOR ESSENTIALLY BARRING AN ENTIRE ZONE WORTH OF STORIES FROM MY PERSONAL ENJOYMENT. 2 zones actualy, counting imperial city. I don't go to Cyrodill unless its with a guild to do some castle sieging and the like. but why is it so hard to accept that I and others like me DISLIKE IT that we cannot go to Cyrodill because of how its set up? yes we don't go there. but WE DISLIKE that we are faced with a choice of skip it, or deal with the pvp getting in a way of pve nonsense.

and.. there's that whole messing up pve abilities via pvp balancing thing.

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

I mean, hey, you want PvE players to stop hating PvP and do IC?

Tell your PvP buddies to stop camping the quest zones.

….but all that free ap

My problem with PvP is when PvE players are effectively forced to go to PvP for an event like the jubilee event and people go out of their way to actively make players time there less enjoyable. I have no problem with conquering a location like Vlast or Bruma, they are objectives. I have no problem killing/being killed in another faction's town (or even an owned town). I DO have a problem with people setting up inside a building with siege weapons shooting at the door taking advantage of loading times for doors and just griefing players trying to turn in a quest. The excuse of "it's PvP" isn't valid when you know damn well you are exploiting something only to attempt to troll people. (Note: I'd also dislike if PvE people did it to prevent PvP people from fully clearing out other factions from the city). That being said I feel like PvE players also expect everyone to play along with their (our) desire to do quests without ever fighting another player which is quite ridiculous too tbh. If people are actively wiping a group in a city then don't just jump up and down blocking surrendering. Fight or retreat and get more people to fight and counter.

Outside of PvE in PvP events tho unless it's legitimately exploitive I have no complaints about PvP (well minus salty people getting mad at people working together)

Also, all that being said I think it is ridiculous to have PvE based events in a PvP zone and personally prefer stuff like the Jubilee event being based on Battlegrounds and actual PvP based content rather than just quests in a PvP zone but meh I know some people like the thrill of being in danger during questing.

Linaleah wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

and no, i don't go there, but I DISLIKE PVP FOR ESSENTIALLY BARRING AN ENTIRE ZONE WORTH OF STORIES FROM MY PERSONAL ENJOYMENT.

You have it good. I DISLIKE EZMODE PVE FOR ESSENTIALLY BARRING AN ENTIRE GAME WORTH OF STORIES FROM MY PERSONAL ENJOYMENT.

While I'm on the subject, I've come to realize almost everything that has ever existed is barred from my personal enjoyment. it's as if my preferences were not considered at all. If you think I'm hard on ZOS, wait until I get a chance to leave feedback with god because frankly, existence is RIDICULOUS.

excuse me WHAT?

in what world can you not enjoy the stories in pve areas? in what world are they bared from you? [snip] story quests by definition are PVE.

The story quests in Cyrodiil (and Imperial City) are not, by definition, PVE.

That's because, while the quest enemies are all NPCs, they take place in a PVP zone, around PVP objectives, reward PVP currency, and are performed by PVP targets. In Cyrodiil and Imperial City, YOU and I are valid targets for enemy players. And certainly ZOS designed those quests with the threat of PVP.

3 out of the 5 questing towns are alliance war objectives, granting transit and campaign points. The other 2 are near home keeps and lay right on scroll running routes. Every delve can be used to get the "Blessing of War" AP buff, thats very impprtant for Emperorship.

In Imperial City, you get Tel Var for killing other players, and there's an achievement for killing other players in the Arena - one of the Quest locations. The districts are alliance war objectives, the bosses grant Tel Var, and owning a district grants better Tel Var and respawn, so enemy players have good reasons to kill others. ZOS absolutely intended IC questing to come with the risk of PVP, and incentivized players to engage in it.

You don't enjoy "sudden PVP in your PVE".

The problem I see is that in a PVP zone, there is no PVE. ZOS intertwined those quests into PVP deliberately so that the threat would come from PVP and encorages players to fight. Plus, enemy players are 100% valid targets in Cyrodiil and IC, no matter what they are doing.

So that's why I see it as "Its a PVP zone. There is no "PVE". You queued up for it, so prepare for sudden PVP in a PVP zone. It's inevitable."


(I'm sympathetic to the arguments about lost time when you have to respawn, because I know that can be frustrating. Still, I think that's just frustration. Its not an uncommon mechanic for games, it's obviously there to keep the enemy from killing you right away again (or duels to keep going forever), and when I PVP, if I get wrecked, I often take it as an indication of "I'm not ready to do this right now, I should come back another time." PVE in this game never really gives you that experience, outside of frustrating PUGs in DLC dungeons or VMA, so I can see where its different and frustrating to some players.

In my experience, PVP takes practice. No one hops in and is instantly good at it. There's lots of deaths, and yes, respawning and riding.

If you don't like that...fine. To each their own.

But I do think the "Why should another player get to waste my time?" problem is a pointless complaint in a PVP zone. Inconveniencing enemy players and preventing them from messing with your things and taking their AP is pretty much entire poibt of the zone. That's sort of like complaining about wasted time when you lose a BG match for fail at a PUG dungeon. There's only one person you can really change at the end of the day. Either prepare to PVP in a PVP zone, or if you decide the preparation isnt worth the time and effort, don't complain when you die and that time is wasted.)

[edited to remove quote]

Linaleah wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

excuse me WHAT?

in what world can you not enjoy the stories in pve areas? in what world are they bared from you? [snip] story quests by definition are PVE.

I enjoy TES questing, but overland combat is now physically repulsive to me because it's _completely_ brain dead. I'm not exaggerating. I want to quest, but the terrible gameplay makes me feel nauseated. So I had to stop with CWC. Overland content is easy to the point it can't reasonably be considered a game anymore because it's practically impossible to lose -- even if you are disconnected.

When I play games, I need to feel engaged, and in ESO that can only happen in PVP.

But my point to you is that your expectation that the game be tailored to *you* is absurd. You are not barred from doing quests in Cyrodiil, you choose not to because you don't enjoy that gameplay. I do not begrudge anyone for that. But to actually feel entitled to a PVE version of content explicitly designed for PVP is not at all realistic.

except... none of the PVE quests in Cyrodil are in any way, shape or form - designed for pvp. explicitly or otherwise. they are pve quests.... set in a zone where other players can attack you. in every other way, they are your basic pve quests. so desire to be able to do them like regular pve quests? IS absolutely sound and logical. as for ease of combat in pve - you could if you wished - nerf yourself. go naked, reset cp, etc. you have that option. I do NOT have an option not to be attacked by other players when doing pve quests in Cyrodil.

Let's look at Cropsford.

*rides into Cropsford looking to quest*

A. I'm a walking target full of AP to any enemy player.
B. Cropsford has three Alliance War flags, that will grant AP if I capture the town, plus guards that will attack or defend me depending on which alliance owns the town. If my alliance doesnt own the town, good luck turning in quests
C. Cropsford has a transit point for whoever owns the town
D. Cropsford is a hop, skip, and a jump away from Drakelowe and a (new) outpost, and is often used as a staging point for attacks on those objectives
E. The delve one of those quests send you to grants an AP buff for killing the boss, used by people running for emperor.

Tell me again that none of the quests in Cyrodiil was designed for PVP?

Even in Chorrol and Cheydinhal, points A and E are still true. Everywhere we go in Cyrodiil, YOU and I are valid targets full of AP to enemy players.

The quests may not require you to kill enemy players.

However, they are certainly designed to promote conflict and encourage you to fight and kill enemy players.

[edited to remove quote]

Kinda funny-- I don't like PvP in this game but I've had fun in others (GW2 especially). I'm pretty mediocre at it at best, but that doesn't stop me from having fun. I get killed a lot too, but whatever

There are a few unique things in this game that drive me bonkers:

1. I don't like the combat very much.
2. Battlegrounds and objective-based or free for alls I've played in other games are limited to two teams. Four teams here make battlegrounds really confusing.
3. Mixing PvE into more open world PvP is a huge deterrent from keeping me from IC and Cyrodiil. When I'm in a questing mood, I only want to deal with AI. PvP requires a different mindset and constant alertness instead of focusing on story.
4. Battlegrounds reward mails actively insult you if you're not in the top two teams. Trash talk is bad enough from other players-- I frigging hate being around it-- but from the game itself? No thanks.

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

and no, i don't go there, but I DISLIKE PVP FOR ESSENTIALLY BARRING AN ENTIRE ZONE WORTH OF STORIES FROM MY PERSONAL ENJOYMENT.

You have it good. I DISLIKE EZMODE PVE FOR ESSENTIALLY BARRING AN ENTIRE GAME WORTH OF STORIES FROM MY PERSONAL ENJOYMENT.

While I'm on the subject, I've come to realize almost everything that has ever existed is barred from my personal enjoyment. it's as if my preferences were not considered at all. If you think I'm hard on ZOS, wait until I get a chance to leave feedback with god because frankly, existence is RIDICULOUS.

Lmao what? PvE is easy mode? Might be to you, but it isn’t to me bud!

You can light attack every mob in this game's overland to death.

Ehhh.. I have ZERO interest in PvP. My Toon will never see Cyrodil, Imp City, Nor whatever the Next Big PvP zone is. One of the Main Reasons I play ESO is There is NO Open-World PvP (for which I am ETERNALLY grateful.) I can quest without worrying about some E-Peen stroker running up and Ganking me while I fight some other monster. Which is where the Hate for PvP'ers comes from. You: Running a Quest, Fighting a Big Bad, your attention on THAT fight. PvPer:Runs in and Jumps your Toon from behind and leaves you face-down in the Dirt. Monster or Boss you were fighting: Deaggros and Leaves. The Hate for the PvPer E-peen strokers comes in there. Someone once told me,"If you Don't like PvP Don't Do it." I have taken that advice to Heart, I Don't. If PvP were to Die, it would not affect my Game. I Just Stay OUT of the PvP Side of the Game. I have Told My Guild, "If you Feel the Need to PvP, Knock yourself Out. While I started the Guild as a Primarily PVE guild, All are welcome." And if there is an absolute need to do the Raids, Dungeons or Whatever they are called in the PvP zones... I can Que up through the Dungeon Finder and Teleport into said Dungeon. No Corpse Drags across a Zone to get there. Anyway, That's what I had a Need to say, I don't hate PvPers,(much, E-Peen strokers that they are), I just Have no use for,nor Interest in, PvP. Ya'll Have a Good One. I'll see you in the Dungeons....