MyKillv2.0 wrote: »

Remove CP is overland content. Only use Champion Points in “champion” modes such as dungeons and trials and PvP.

It just shows how pointless and broken and unwanted and unneeded the entire CP system is/was.

MyKillv2.0 wrote: »

Remove CP is overland content. Only use Champion Points in “champion” modes such as dungeons and trials and PvP.

Oh hell no. CP makes overland playable.

Sylvermynx wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

anon307 wrote: »

ha, I came to this forum to ask how to make things easier. Normal world mobs are fine. Many elite mobs are too difficult as well as many bosses at the end of quest lines. Group content should be hard and perhaps even harder. Solo player quests and content should have an option to make it easier.

I didn't vote because the pole if flawed. Id vote this...
Give players an option to choose their difficulty. This way everyone can experience what they want.

Sadly this options denies others who like to tell people how to play or that other player's fun is wrong. but those kind of people aren't cool so that is okay anyway.

I totally get you It was like that for me too. I skipped the Mages' and Fighters' Guild quests til after level 50 because I was getting slaughtered. My best advice: make sure you eat food and learn to open chests for set gear. Mismatched sets make the leveling phase of the game exponentially harder. Also, hang in there! CP makes the game a lot easier.

Not just chests: there's a real benefit to buying the Summerset chapter, and it's called the Psijiic quest line. Every portal you open after you unlock the "vision" (which happens after Valsirenn sends you to talk to whatshisface - can't remember his name - and you complete that quest) will give you a piece of set gear for the area you're in. That is a MAJOR MAJOR benefit. Especially for people like me who cannot reliably get through quest lines - or even bar swapping - due to ping.

Never used the Psijic set. I found the trainee set in the starter areas to be a good all around set. Plus the training attribute on the pieces helps the leveling speed a lot. Pair that with a good majicka or stamina set and life is a lot better. Also I really like the crunchy pumpkin skewers on mag toons for the mag and stamina boosts. The food levels with you, and you're always short on stamina with mag based toons.

another problem is horizontal progression. The mob you face at lvl 1 is same mob you will face in the end of Cadwell's gold.

Ok, you can nerf yourself via naked/cp/no mundus/no food etc and white sword (no shield ofcuz lol). But it will be same difficulty all over the world. Your alliance, another one, DLC zones, chapter zones. Doesn't matter. Everything is same.

p.s.
there was a thread someone mentioned about 800k hp quest boss (sic) in Buffmire DLC with oneshot (sic) mechanics. Didn't see anyone complain about it, only "tx ZOS for some challenging quest" etc.

Sevn wrote: »

Bryath wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Voice_of_Chronicles wrote: »

Should the PvE ( "old" open world) area difficulty be increased?

I know it's obvious to most... but the problem is that without CP the old world pve is fine. It's just about right.

With Max CP it quickly becomes a total joke where you pull as many things as you can before they tether and aoe them.

The solution might not exactly be increase the strength of the pve content. It would be to either eliminate the CP trees and move on from it entirely or change it so it doesn't make a joke of pve content.

The difficulty felt about right to me, as a brand-new player, from roughly levels 1-20. I'm hardly some gaming savant, SP action games are always played on 'easy mode'. Newbies need a place to learn the game, no one will dispute that, but 90% of a games content should not be at the difficulty of a typical newbie island/tutorial.

I actually think the disparity between casual and hardcore content fits the playerbase. Without citing any numbers, looking at stats though it's easy to see the overwhelming type of gamer that plays eso is indeed casual.

Only makes sense most of the content would be geared towards them. Again, just looking at the stats(trophies on ps4) pve endgame content aka hard content whether solo or group, all have low participation numbers.

Any discussions or opinions that include references to PS4 Trophies, Xbox Achievements or anything of the kind are almost always wrong and based on complete misinformation.

Tutorial Island (Bal Foyen, Khenarthi's etc) should be as it currently is, the rest should be upped slightly.

Sevn wrote: »

Not going to lie, you have me so confused! We have voted the same way, but it seems you are advocating for changing overland? When I say casual, RPer's are exactly who I have in mind. I totally agree, lots of TES fans, skyrim definitely, play this as a SP and play for the RP experience.

I'm a hardcore casual, meaning I probably don't fit in any one group here, which makes it somewhat difficult to find my place. .

Nope.. I think it's hard enough. I think many of the people that want it harder.. are skipping.. running past the lesser creatures.
And regardless of how hard they are made, would still run past them.

By walking and having to fight each and every one.. those who want it harder would see what it would be like if those creatures could stop them.. and I know if they were mini-bosses they could.. ( except those whose stat's are ridiculously high )

I play two types of Characters in Skyrim.. ones that are strictly Role Play.. If they die they are resurrected and Dead is Dead Role Plays ( we also used to do competitions ) Once they die, they don't come back I start another character with another DiD RP.. Most of my errr 'regular' RP's are done at Adept and I will console command what I want them to wear, the armor might never change through the whole RP, maybe get tempered if they die to much. DiD, on the other hand, is played with no console commands ( unless they get stuck ).

I'd play some DiD here also.. it's perfect for it.. except the cost $$$ IRL for deleting and starting new characters..

Sevn wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Bryath wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Voice_of_Chronicles wrote: »

Should the PvE ( "old" open world) area difficulty be increased?

I know it's obvious to most... but the problem is that without CP the old world pve is fine. It's just about right.

With Max CP it quickly becomes a total joke where you pull as many things as you can before they tether and aoe them.

The solution might not exactly be increase the strength of the pve content. It would be to either eliminate the CP trees and move on from it entirely or change it so it doesn't make a joke of pve content.

The difficulty felt about right to me, as a brand-new player, from roughly levels 1-20. I'm hardly some gaming savant, SP action games are always played on 'easy mode'. Newbies need a place to learn the game, no one will dispute that, but 90% of a games content should not be at the difficulty of a typical newbie island/tutorial.

I actually think the disparity between casual and hardcore content fits the playerbase. Without citing any numbers, looking at stats though it's easy to see the overwhelming type of gamer that plays eso is indeed casual.

Only makes sense most of the content would be geared towards them. Again, just looking at the stats(trophies on ps4) pve endgame content aka hard content whether solo or group, all have low participation numbers.

Any discussions or opinions that include references to PS4 Trophies, Xbox Achievements or anything of the kind are almost always wrong and based on complete misinformation.

Tutorial Island (Bal Foyen, Khenarthi's etc) should be as it currently is, the rest should be upped slightly.

I thought so as well, until I was corrected on several times by many PC gamers who stated otherwise that the numbers are the same across the board. When it says only 12% of players have ever entered cyro that's for all platforms, not just ps4.

The stats between consoles are different iirc so that might not be factual.

The way consoles work is that if ZOS runs a F2p event tomorrow for a month and 150,000 new players come in, they're all added into those % pools - That's why, over time, completion rate percentages have gone down rather than up.

If you break these figures out and include only relevant data you get MUCH higher completion and participation rates.

Go look at your trophies and base your completion rates on number of characters that have hit 300CP and you'll see something much different (Even though that's still wildly skewed in favour of low % due to vets on alts)

Either way, there's a massive disparity between 'endgame' and 'overland' and nobody is suggesting overland be stretched to endgame level difficulty, just a little harder.

BNOC wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Bryath wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Voice_of_Chronicles wrote: »

Should the PvE ( "old" open world) area difficulty be increased?

I know it's obvious to most... but the problem is that without CP the old world pve is fine. It's just about right.

With Max CP it quickly becomes a total joke where you pull as many things as you can before they tether and aoe them.

The solution might not exactly be increase the strength of the pve content. It would be to either eliminate the CP trees and move on from it entirely or change it so it doesn't make a joke of pve content.

The difficulty felt about right to me, as a brand-new player, from roughly levels 1-20. I'm hardly some gaming savant, SP action games are always played on 'easy mode'. Newbies need a place to learn the game, no one will dispute that, but 90% of a games content should not be at the difficulty of a typical newbie island/tutorial.

I actually think the disparity between casual and hardcore content fits the playerbase. Without citing any numbers, looking at stats though it's easy to see the overwhelming type of gamer that plays eso is indeed casual.

Only makes sense most of the content would be geared towards them. Again, just looking at the stats(trophies on ps4) pve endgame content aka hard content whether solo or group, all have low participation numbers.

Any discussions or opinions that include references to PS4 Trophies, Xbox Achievements or anything of the kind are almost always wrong and based on complete misinformation.

Tutorial Island (Bal Foyen, Khenarthi's etc) should be as it currently is, the rest should be upped slightly.

I thought so as well, until I was corrected on several times by many PC gamers who stated otherwise that the numbers are the same across the board. When it says only 12% of players have ever entered cyro that's for all platforms, not just ps4.

The stats between consoles are different iirc so that might not be factual.

The way consoles work is that if ZOS runs a F2p event tomorrow for a month and 150,000 new players come in, they're all added into those % pools - That's why, over time, completion rate percentages have gone down rather than up.

If you break these figures out and include only relevant data you get MUCH higher completion and participation rates.

Go look at your trophies and base your completion rates on number of characters that have hit 300CP and you'll see something much different (Even though that's still wildly skewed in favour of low % due to vets on alts)

Either way, there's a massive disparity between 'endgame' and 'overland' and nobody is suggesting overland be stretched to endgame level difficulty, just a little harder.

I'm not disagreeing or disputing what you are saying, I'm simply saying you are the only PC gamer to say it. As I said, many PC gamers, all right here have stated otherwise.

I fully understand what they are asking for and am totally against it.

Maybe common delve (or overworld equivalent) bosses should be more difficult. I had almost no problem killing them on my first char from lvl 35, now I'm in cp zone and they die in seconds. That's a little underwhelming.
For story-lovers: yes I play this game for quests pretty much, no I'm fresh into game and cp system and no it's no fun when The Mighty Evil Guy who conquered cities and slayed countless ppl dies in few seconds from your lasy pokes. That just immersion-breaking.

Tomg999 wrote: »

Here's what I miss about the old world - choice and a range in difficulty .
Having played since Beta, I miss the old world where I could choose via where I went the level of difficulty. I still occasionally get a little anxious wandering around the Rift or Reaper's Marsh when I have flashbacks to creeping around there 15 levels below where you were supposed to be.

I understand the benefits of One Tamriel,. as well as the issues with providing a difficulty slider. I also know not applying CP works, but that is kludgy and effects immersion.

But it would not be too hard for ZOS to offer a new PVE zone or two, either as DLC or chapter, that was just a more difficult place. Then folks could explore it when & if they wanted, and enjoy it.
They could even make some $$ from it.

How would they make money from it? It's a minority of players that want this. On consoles that type of content is almost completely ignored, easily verifiable.

I left PC gamers out as I have no way of tracking them and have already been informed that their numbers differ from the rest of the population. Not sure why it would show 13.7% have even set foot in cyro on console but may have a different percentage on PC, but that's still a smaller number than the two consoles combined I'd imagine?

I used cyro as an example of numbers, not popularity or comparing pvp endgame content to pve content, but the numbers for pve endgame content is even lower, I'm talking low single digits like 1.6 for n maelstrom which I found extremely easy, vet at 0.5, with hard dungeons heck even normal dlc dungeons sitting at less than 2% as well.

How can they justify using time and resources for a minority group over using that same time and resources to make content the other 90% would buy in a heartbeat?

Aireal wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I actually think the disparity between casual and hardcore content fits the playerbase. Without citing any numbers, looking at stats though it's easy to see the overwhelming type of gamer that plays eso is indeed casual.

Only makes sense most of the content would be geared towards them. Again, just looking at the stats(trophies on ps4) pve endgame content aka hard content whether solo or group, all have low participation numbers.

Or you could look at it another way.. I'm going to guess.. seeing some very.. very familiar names that a good many ESO players are converts from other TES games.... ie a lot of them are Role Players. Some are friends and some are ppl I'd like to shoot to the Moon... <snicker> Its what I get for using the same sign-on name everywhere possible.... I did change it once, but that was before Skyrim came out.

Not every Role / Story is suited to really hard content, not everyone wants to fight everything.. TGM and making Voice of the Sky a perm buff ( Skyrim ).. makes a good Role Play buff so that one isn't fighting everything and if one has to fight it its easy.

I like a challenge, but I don't always want a huge one.. and I sure don't want every wolf, bear, lion, wasp, skeever and zombie to be more than a bump in the road!

I see higher leveled players speeding by everything.. on their fast mounts... You want a challenge? Walk, fight everything between you and where you are going.. get's tedious after awhile.. huh? Would get really boring if every wolf along the way was a mini-boss.

I play a pretty slow game.. most of the time. How slow? Get on your mount and walk it... see that right arm that is down by your side?? yeah? Keep it there! - now let me know how fun it is to fight that wolf you come across.. and how fun would it be if the wolf was a mini-boss?...and the next 20...

No I don't always play that way.. sometimes I zip along like everyone else...ignoring those lesser creatures.

I don't think people who want the game to be harder are advocating that every wolf be it's own mini boss, it's more like if you link 5 or so together there should be some challenge, a sort of penalty for being sloppy. As is even on my crafter who is level 28 (no CP) with barely any combat skills and no passives except the Bosmer roll-dodge, if I get pulled off my horse and turn to see 4 or 5 of any overworld enemies I just lay down a Volley and spam light attack and they're dead before the Volley ends. That's not something only skilled players can do and it's not a gear thing as she wears Jailbreaker's and Fiords, not exactly a hard hitting combo. That's why you see so many people zipping by not caring what they agro, they treat the overworld as a walk through Central Park because that's what it feels like. And that's un-emmersize in a game where the mood is set to make the world out to be a dark and dangerous place.

ZOS could actually use the idea of a "sloppiness penalty" as their basis for raising the difficulty. People always ask how would you raise the difficulty for vets without making the game impossible for newer players, here's what I would do. Give overworld mobs a buff with a multiplier based on how many of them are linked to one player, so that the more you have grouped together the harder they all become, playing on the idea of strength in numbers So..

1 mob singled out would be the same difficulty as it is today, a challenge for people just starting but easy for anyone who has the combat system more or less figured out.

2 mobs linked together would be more of a challenge for lower level players even if they have combat more or less figured out, but not impossible for new players, still easy at higher levels.

3 mobs together is now starting to challenge players even at 160 CP, though not impossible for somone at lower levels, if they know what they're doing. People still learning will want to be cautious to avoid this situation, as it could get a bit hairy.

4 mobs and even average players between 160-300 CP now have a fight on their hands, but not so hard that someone below can't handle it with a half-decent strategy.

5 or more mobs and even the 300+ CP crowd is gonna be slowed down enough to think twice before linking a train of enemies behind them. Of course for a skilled player, even at lower levels this isn't an avoid at all costs situation, more of a more trouble than it's worth type of situation.

So no, a single wolf shouldn't be anything near a mini-boss, that would make farming, or even just getting from point A to point B obnoxious as all get-up. But a pack of wolves? Or a pride of Lions, or a hive of Wasps? It's makes sense to me for that situation to be somewhat closer to mini-boss levels.

This way, for anyone struggling now, the game stays more or less the same as long as they're careful not to link things together, and it would actually give the difficulty between zones a natural progression without ZOS really having to change much else, since currently the biggest difference between early zones like Glenumbra and later zones like Bangkorai is mob density.

And they wouldn't even have to increase the difficulty on quest bosses and delve bosses independently really because most of them have minions fighting with them so they could be affected by the multiplier just like every other enemy, and the fact that some don't have minions means that there's still solo'able content for newer players and people still learning.

Sevn wrote: »

Tomg999 wrote: »

Here's what I miss about the old world - choice and a range in difficulty .
Having played since Beta, I miss the old world where I could choose via where I went the level of difficulty. I still occasionally get a little anxious wandering around the Rift or Reaper's Marsh when I have flashbacks to creeping around there 15 levels below where you were supposed to be.

I understand the benefits of One Tamriel,. as well as the issues with providing a difficulty slider. I also know not applying CP works, but that is kludgy and effects immersion.

But it would not be too hard for ZOS to offer a new PVE zone or two, either as DLC or chapter, that was just a more difficult place. Then folks could explore it when & if they wanted, and enjoy it.
They could even make some $$ from it.

How would they make money from it? It's a minority of players that want this. On consoles that type of content is almost completely ignored, easily verifiable.

I left PC gamers out as I have no way of tracking them and have already been informed that their numbers differ from the rest of the population. Not sure why it would show 13.7% have even set foot in cyro on console but may have a different percentage on PC, but that's still a smaller number than the two co

Sevn wrote: »

Tomg999 wrote: »

Here's what I miss about the old world - choice and a range in difficulty .
Having played since Beta, I miss the old world where I could choose via where I went the level of difficulty. I still occasionally get a little anxious wandering around the Rift or Reaper's Marsh when I have flashbacks to creeping around there 15 levels below where you were supposed to be.

I understand the benefits of One Tamriel,. as well as the issues with providing a difficulty slider. I also know not applying CP works, but that is kludgy and effects immersion.

But it would not be too hard for ZOS to offer a new PVE zone or two, either as DLC or chapter, that was just a more difficult place. Then folks could explore it when & if they wanted, and enjoy it.
They could even make some $$ from it.

How would they make money from it? It's a minority of players that want this.

Source?

Maybe not an increase to everything but an increase in certain areas of each zone would be nice. New drops or rewards to go to those areas would be swell too.

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

I don't think people who want the game to be harder are advocating that every wolf be it's own mini boss, it's more like if you link 5 or so together there should be some challenge, a sort of penalty for being sloppy. As is even on my crafter who is level 28 (no CP) with barely any combat skills and no passives except the Bosmer roll-dodge, if I get pulled off my horse and turn to see 4 or 5 of any overworld enemies I just lay down a Volley and spam light attack and they're dead before the Volley ends. That's not something only skilled players can do and it's not a gear thing as she wears Jailbreaker's and Fiords, not exactly a hard hitting combo. That's why you see so many people zipping by not caring what they agro, they treat the overworld as a walk through Central Park because that's what it feels like. And that's un-emmersize in a game where the mood is set to make the world out to be a dark and dangerous place.

I see your point... But if my level 12 character out picking plants runs across a pack of wolves.. how is she going to survive?

So no, a single wolf shouldn't be anything near a mini-boss, that would make farming, or even just getting from point A to point B obnoxious as all get-up. But a pack of wolves? Or a pride of Lions, or a hive of Wasps? It's makes sense to me for that situation to be somewhat closer to mini-boss levels.

This way, for anyone struggling now, the game stays more or less the same as long as they're careful not to link things together, and it would actually give the difficulty between zones a natural progression without ZOS really having to change much else, since currently the biggest difference between early zones like Glenumbra and later zones like Bangkorai is mob density.

And they wouldn't even have to increase the difficulty on quest bosses and delve bosses independently really because most of them have minions fighting with them so they could be affected by the multiplier just like every other enemy, and the fact that some don't have minions means that there's still solo'able content for newer players and people still learning.

If that could be implemented - a pack per CP.. then It wouldn't bother me... but there are still people that don't want harder fights, but because others do.

What I meant by every wolf being a mini-boss.. isn't literal. What I meant was that in order to give a general difficulty increase - to make it a challenge to that person with 800CP and stat's to match.. it would be like a mini-boss to anyone below CP160... meaning every wolf that a lower level character runs into would be like a mini boss..not really a mini-boss.

Aireal wrote: »

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

I don't think people who want the game to be harder are advocating that every wolf be it's own mini boss, it's more like if you link 5 or so together there should be some challenge, a sort of penalty for being sloppy. As is even on my crafter who is level 28 (no CP) with barely any combat skills and no passives except the Bosmer roll-dodge, if I get pulled off my horse and turn to see 4 or 5 of any overworld enemies I just lay down a Volley and spam light attack and they're dead before the Volley ends. That's not something only skilled players can do and it's not a gear thing as she wears Jailbreaker's and Fiords, not exactly a hard hitting combo. That's why you see so many people zipping by not caring what they agro, they treat the overworld as a walk through Central Park because that's what it feels like. And that's un-emmersize in a game where the mood is set to make the world out to be a dark and dangerous place.

I see your point... But if my level 12 character out picking plants runs across a pack of wolves.. how is she going to survive?

So no, a single wolf shouldn't be anything near a mini-boss, that would make farming, or even just getting from point A to point B obnoxious as all get-up. But a pack of wolves? Or a pride of Lions, or a hive of Wasps? It's makes sense to me for that situation to be somewhat closer to mini-boss levels.

This way, for anyone struggling now, the game stays more or less the same as long as they're careful not to link things together, and it would actually give the difficulty between zones a natural progression without ZOS really having to change much else, since currently the biggest difference between early zones like Glenumbra and later zones like Bangkorai is mob density.

And they wouldn't even have to increase the difficulty on quest bosses and delve bosses independently really because most of them have minions fighting with them so they could be affected by the multiplier just like every other enemy, and the fact that some don't have minions means that there's still solo'able content for newer players and people still learning.

If that could be implemented - a pack per CP.. then It wouldn't bother me... but there are still people that don't want harder fights, but because others do.

What I meant by every wolf being a mini-boss.. isn't literal. What I meant was that in order to give a general difficulty increase - to make it a challenge to that person with 800CP and stat's to match.. it would be like a mini-boss to anyone below CP160... meaning every wolf that a lower level character runs into would be like a mini boss..not really a mini-boss.

Well, as long as your level 12 isn't in a densely populated area she should be fine, even if she is, just don't run around linking things, keep the fight confined. The system I'm talking about wouldn't introduce new spawns of roaming pre-grouped packs, but rather scale the current mobs up the more you have attacking you.

So someone who's inexperienced or just not looking for a challenge can go through fighting things one at a time and never have a problem. Someone more experienced might still afford to be cavalier about their travels, but now when they get pulled off their horse, or make it to whatever skyshard/lorebook/survey what-have-you that they were sprinting towards, they're actually gonna have a fight on their hands if they have a train of enemies following behind them. Then there will also be places on the map that become more difficult by default just because there's more enemies around making it harder to avoid linking, like those towns overrun by bandits, or that area north or Wayrest where there's scamps just everywhere, and delves in general too, for example.

There's a couple things they could do to compensate the difficulty too. Like for one make it so harvesting nodes doesn't pull you out of stealth, I'm sure that would help with your level 12s situation, I know my crafter would love it even without this system, she's always getting in fights over the randomist things. They could also change the way pre-grouped enemies aggro. As it is currently attacking one alerts the others and pulls them all, even if you attack from a distance and out of view of the others. Change that, make it so that as long as you're careful about doing it out of view of the others you can separate them one at a time, even if they make it so it only works with certain abilities like chains/leesh. That way, someone less experienced can still do the content in those situations where there's pre-made groups, they just have to spend more time being careful so they can pick them off one at a time, whereas someone at a more advanced level who isn't worried about the higher difficulty from the grouping bonus can just dive in, getting the challenge they've been missing.