Gap closer snares

Irylia · April 2019

With our speed and immunity nerfs in murkmire and then again with rapids I can’t find any justification for 60% snare from 30% on gap closers which bypasses snare immunity and expedition.

1. Let the gap closer go from x to y
Y being the location of your enemy when you casted skill at x.. don’t snare your enemy at all. If it doesn’t land that’s fine you already get to train after them for far cheaper than it would be to sprint.
If it hits it hits.
2. Alternatively follow the person with your gap closer until it lands but don’t snare them. Besides that’s just more distance gained for you.
3. Cost increase like streak to gap closers.

Gap closers aren’t effective in large scale combat zerg ball v zerg and they aren’t an issue in duels.

Where they will be oppressive is when you are outnumbered and have multiple enemies spamming gap closers onto you which means you will be permanently or an extremely high uptime of 60% slower than your max speed.
This is crippling for anyone solo. Groups that are outnumbered and trying to kite/move

Conveniently nb ambush has minor vul debuff on their gap close and magblade has a stronger dot on lotus fan. So now while you are being spammed by arguably the most effective skill for zerging you’ll also Be taking 8% more damage from everyone’s incoming range.
This doesn’t even include being spam pulled by chains/portal/leash.

Goodbye movement.
Hello is this bob the builder? I need you to build me a house so I can stave off the zerg of thirsty “I am legend” vampires.
(Earthgore)

I’ll upload a clip of the current situation and how oppressive snares and roots are for groups already being bogged down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqxSWsO7niE

frostz417 · April 2019

100% agree that gap closers with snares is the most broken thing for outnumbered situations and literally has no counter play. Needs to be fixed.
I will commend zos for taking steps in the right direction with toning down snares while giving us more abilities that remove and provide immunity. Thank you zos, now we need to fix the gap closer issue

BaylorCorvette · April 2019

Irylia wrote: »

3. Cost increase like streak to gap closers.

THIS.

When I'm kiting a group (especially solo) and there is one guy literally just spamming a gap closer, IDK how that is skillful game play?

Galarthor · April 2019

The snares on gap closers are most likely not meant as a combat mechanic, but rather as a band-aid fix for increasing the accuracy of gap closers - after all, the less your target moves, the higher the chances of hitting it.

Irylia · April 2019

Galarthor wrote: »

The snares on gap closers are most likely not meant as a combat mechanic, but rather as a band-aid fix for increasing the accuracy of gap closers - after all, the less your target moves, the higher the chances of hitting it.

Yes that’s why it was introduced
but if that’s the issue then don’t increase the snare and make combat sluggish for the sake of zerglings to run others down easier.
Just make them miss

jaysins · April 2019

I would much rather them speed up the gap closer to make it hit more often and remove the snare. The snare is debilitating when fighting outnumbered as we have no counterplay available. I can only cast shuffle/roll dodge so many times in a row before I not only run out of stam but am bored out of my mind. Not having counterplay options is very frustrating and really dulls the game down for many of us.

Irylia · April 2019

You cant even shuffle/fm/wings/mirage/accelerate out of gap close snare. It bypasses immunity

Koolio · April 2019

Irylia wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

The snares on gap closers are most likely not meant as a combat mechanic, but rather as a band-aid fix for increasing the accuracy of gap closers - after all, the less your target moves, the higher the chances of hitting it.

Yes that’s why it was introduced
but if that’s the issue then don’t increase the snare and make combat sluggish for the sake of zerglings to run others down easier.
Just make them miss

I hate it too and was extremely happy when they reduced it.

Then I realized that gap closer would not activate. My characters would bug out start the animation and never move me but Drain Resource.

It wasn’t uncommon to hit a Stampede 4-7 times just to have it never work.

Solariken · April 2019

Agree with OP. There doesn't need to be any snare. I'd rather they extend the range of the endpoint attack by a meter or two. Gap closer spam used to be SUPER abusive gameplay, I'm beyond surprised that they want to bring that crap back.

Bazeric · April 2019

Koolio wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

The snares on gap closers are most likely not meant as a combat mechanic, but rather as a band-aid fix for increasing the accuracy of gap closers - after all, the less your target moves, the higher the chances of hitting it.

Yes that’s why it was introduced
but if that’s the issue then don’t increase the snare and make combat sluggish for the sake of zerglings to run others down easier.
Just make them miss

I hate it too and was extremely happy when they reduced it.

Then I realized that gap closer would not activate. My characters would bug out start the animation and never move me but Drain Resource.

It wasn’t uncommon to hit a Stampede 4-7 times just to have it never work.

oh the good old days before they added this when you'd just sit and spam gap closers and nothing happened while your target gleefully galloped off into the sunset.

Zer0oo · April 2019

get rid of the snare and let the gap closer miss if the target had build for mobility

TBois · April 2019

Increase damage a bit and let them miss. Risk/reward

kookster · April 2019

What you dont want a 60% snare and then another 60% snare from stampede or other similar abilities? I thought snares were fun? At least since everything snares in this game zos must think they are fun....[/sarcasm]

In all seriousness i totally agree with the OP, snares are broken in this game, they aren't fun. A 60% snare on gap closers is a terrible idea in my opinion.

Koolio · April 2019

TBois wrote: »

Increase damage a bit and let them miss. Risk/reward

Remember they Nerfed Gap Closers in Dragon Bones? To allow better kiting for ranged classes.

I’m all for that but let’s have them actually work though.

kookster · April 2019

I think a proper fix would just make the gap closer go to where the target is, rather than where they were. But I think I know why they dont do that, as i can cause some issues:

more server calculations to update new positioning, which will increase server load ever so slightly.
if both targets gap close to each other... then what. Infinite loop and rubberbanding of doom most likely.

technohic · April 2019

Its definitely a work around as outside if that, gap closers do not work on any moving target. A better solution would be a brief stick to target where you have a chance to act once closed.

Lapin_Logic · April 2019

Irylia wrote: »

With our speed and immunity nerfs in murkmire and then again with rapids I can’t find any justification for 60% snare from 30% on gap closers which bypasses snare immunity and expedition.

Either.

Make Snare a counterplay to Expedition.
It can have a Major (30%) and Minor (8-15%).

Or

Make Expedition a True Counterplay to Snare by adding Snare immunity to Expedition skills

A Snare is only to gain ground on a fleeing target or to assist in keeping an engaged enemy in proximity to your AOE (Hurricane, Northern storm)

A Snare should not be an Immobilize, but with 60-80% snares it practically is an immobilize, so currently you can get jumped by someone, ((get immobilized)), break free, get a skill off and try to engage, ((get stunned)), break free, ((80% snare)), have moved 1/2 a Meter in 6 seconds. It does not "Feel Good" or feel like combat and counterplay.

Iskiab · April 2019

Without gap closers snaring they’d be useless. As a magicka class I could speed jewellery x3, steed mundus and kite melee indefinitely. Especially with the changes to race against time.

Burtan · April 2019

Terrible change, this change is only a benefit to players looking to zerg down smaller numbers and shut down any chance of escape. It is already very hard right now to move at all and zos admitted that movement and snares are an issue yet changes like this are still being made despite the snares themselves BEING BROKEN AND BYPASSING IMMUNITY.

Obnoxious, oppressive and cancerous change that clearly wasn't looked into or given any thought.

jaysins · April 2019

Instead of a 60% snare why not reduce the travel time by 60%? This would both make them hit more reliably and harder to dodge which is a boon for the person using the gap closer and having no snare so that the person getting gap closed isn't being hit with an unmitigatable debuff?

SodanTok · April 2019

Finally thread about this, I wonder how many people forgot how awful gap closer snares were when they used to snare for more and longer. Its essentially perma 60% snare if you are moving away from gap closing enemy because they arent gonna stop, there is no loss in spamming gap closer on enemy trying to get away from you. Absolutely none.

Irylia · April 2019

SodanTok wrote: »

Finally thread about this, I wonder how many people forgot how awful gap closer snares were when they used to snare for more and longer. Its essentially perma 60% snare if you are moving away from gap closing enemy because they arent gonna stop, there is no loss in spamming gap closer on enemy trying to get away from you. Absolutely none.

It will diminish any expedition buffs and make us feel like we are rp walking

jaws343 · April 2019

SodanTok wrote: »

Finally thread about this, I wonder how many people forgot how awful gap closer snares were when they used to snare for more and longer. Its essentially perma 60% snare if you are moving away from gap closing enemy because they arent gonna stop, there is no loss in spamming gap closer on enemy trying to get away from you. Absolutely none.

Stampede costs 3780 stamina, so spamming this is just going to run you out of stamina. And it's not like magicka classes, where running out of stamina still provides them with all of their offensive capabilities. Burning stamina just to repeatedly miss with a gap closer just further eats into their offensive resources as well.

SodanTok · April 2019

jaws343 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Finally thread about this, I wonder how many people forgot how awful gap closer snares were when they used to snare for more and longer. Its essentially perma 60% snare if you are moving away from gap closing enemy because they arent gonna stop, there is no loss in spamming gap closer on enemy trying to get away from you. Absolutely none.

Stampede costs 3780 stamina, so spamming this is just going to run you out of stamina. And it's not like magicka classes, where running out of stamina still provides them with all of their offensive capabilities. Burning stamina just to repeatedly miss with a gap closer just further eats into their offensive resources as well.

If the target is trying to get away from you they will run out of resources faster.

katorga · April 2019

SodanTok wrote: »

I wonder how many people forgot how awful gap closer snares were when they used to snare for more and longer. Its essentially perma 60% snare if you are moving away from gap closing enemy because they arent gonna stop, there is no loss in spamming gap closer on enemy trying to get away from you. Absolutely none.

Bingo. There used to be huge outcry in the forums over this, now they are bringing it back.

Irylia · April 2019

katorga wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

I wonder how many people forgot how awful gap closer snares were when they used to snare for more and longer. Its essentially perma 60% snare if you are moving away from gap closing enemy because they arent gonna stop, there is no loss in spamming gap closer on enemy trying to get away from you. Absolutely none.

Bingo. There used to be huge outcry in the forums over this, now they are bringing it back.

If this goes through it will be a huge dampener on all the other positive changes we’ve had

usmcjdking · April 2019

So, I sort of agree with the premise of this thread.

I agree that that gap closer snare is inherently broken. It's mostly broken on the teleport side of the house like Ambush/Lotus fan - skills that cannot miss.

I disagree in devaluing gap closers any further than they already are. With the except of empowering chains, most of them are really bad or lukewarm (Stampede).

So the obvious position I should take is that the gap closer snare should be removed from the game and ALL gap closers should function as teleports.

Irylia · April 2019

The clip was no cp and not even against the extent of what there can be chasing you.

Granted if it was cp you could sustain movement longer

Bergzorn · April 2019

When I first read that they bring back the 60% gap closer snare, I wanted to believe that they also changed it to not bypass immunity anymore.

What a bummer.

Nallenil · April 2019

I'd rather they introduce more tools to deal with big zergs than really affect the snares.

_Ahala_ · April 2019

What if cc (snares, stuns, roots) scaled up off of the number of targets hit so it’s actually became croud control