Gap closer snares

wheem_ESO

I don't see any reason for spammable gap closers to have the highest % snare in the game attached to them. Kiting already isn't really a thing, at least not to anywhere remotely near the degree that it is in other games. Gap closers not being as slow/clunky would be fine, but there shouldn't be an 8 second long, 60% snare attached to any of them.

lucky_Sage

I know the original intent for the snare on gap closer was so they actually land so for that to changed they’d have to find another way for them to lands every time

Bergzorn

lucky_Sage wrote: »

I know the original intent for the snare on gap closer was so they actually land so for that to changed they’d have to find another way for them to lands every time

They should be relatively reliable, but why do they have to land every time?

Why should the gap closer snare be given priority over snare immunity?

DivineFirstYOLO

@Irylia Why are you not a class rep yet? Somebody nominate him!

Nicalas

Does this snare stack with other sources of snare? Or does it override. I wonder if this is the cause of the 99% movement snare. On builds with ~70% movement w/o sprint I often find myself snared to below RP walk speed with no change while sprinting.

Maulkin

Remember the "good" old days when gap closer spam not only rooted you but also silenced you so you couldn't cast any spells till the gap closer connected?

Pepperidge farm remembers.

One of the most cancerous design decisions of Wrobel's reign. If not the most.

Irylia

Making them faster or teleport could be a good option.

Joy_Division

I've never played any game with charge mechanics where this stupid mechanic was necessary. If we must have a band-aid solution, then speed up the gap closer. ZoS slowed down Templar's toppling charge by quite a bit for some unknown reason.

Ranger209

Why not just make it so that if you actually close the gap that when you land it automatically applies the damage to the person you closed the gap on regardless of how close they are to you. No need for snares or roots, if you close the gap you are guaranteed the hit when you land regardless of proximity. You could go one step beyond this and even include normal dodge mechanics so that if you dodged at the right time or had a legitimate dodge take place for any reason during transport that it would be the only way to mitigate the damage allowing for some counter play.

Ankael07

There isnt even a developer comment below gap closer change. Theyre trying to sweep this under the rug like its no big deal

Mayrael

First look at notes was like: "hey pretty good notes". But with time I see there will be a lot of broken things, that will ruin pleasure of playing. This snare on gapclose was one of the most abused things in the past. We had dedicated gap close spammers that were making sure you won't escape anywhere. I don't won't to get back there.

mcagatayg

Irylia wrote: »

With our speed and immunity nerfs in murkmire and then again with rapids I can’t find any justification for 60% snare from 30% on gap closers which bypasses snare immunity and expedition.

1. Let the gap closer go from x to y
Y being the location of your enemy when you casted skill at x.. don’t snare your enemy at all. If it doesn’t land that’s fine you already get to train after them for far cheaper than it would be to sprint.
If it hits it hits.
2. Alternatively follow the person with your gap closer until it lands but don’t snare them. Besides that’s just more distance gained for you.
3. Cost increase like streak to gap closers.

Gap closers aren’t effective in large scale combat zerg ball v zerg and they aren’t an issue in duels.

Where they will be oppressive is when you are outnumbered and have multiple enemies spamming gap closers onto you which means you will be permanently or an extremely high uptime of 60% slower than your max speed.
This is crippling for anyone solo. Groups that are outnumbered and trying to kite/move

Conveniently nb ambush has minor vul debuff on their gap close and magblade has a stronger dot on lotus fan. So now while you are being spammed by arguably the most effective skill for zerging you’ll also Be taking 8% more damage from everyone’s incoming range.
This doesn’t even include being spam pulled by chains/portal/leash.

Goodbye movement.
Hello is this bob the builder? I need you to build me a house so I can stave off the zerg of thirsty “I am legend” vampires.
(Earthgore)

I’ll upload a clip of the current situation and how oppressive snares and roots are for groups already being bogged down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqxSWsO7niE

I can't 1vX, We cant 5vZERG, must be OP, BabyRage. You cant balance for these situations. It's just not possible.

jaysins

You can't balance for every situation nor should you. The group with the larger number is always going to have a dps and healing advantage over the smaller group, as it should, and the challenge of overcoming this is what most of us who like smaller groups enjoy. What is the problem is that they're making a bad mechanic with no counterplay, is insanely easy to use, and is very debilitating to the smaller group as we depend on superior movement and positioning to fight back and if your healer is getting targeted and gap closed, which they should be in a coordinated group, they have no way of keeping up with the rest of their team as they line of sight and reposition themselves. There are so many ways to snare, root and stun people in this game that it's actually pretty ridiculous. Why do we need one more with zero counterplay? Just speed up the animation so it hits more reliably otherwise small group will just have one player targeted by gap closers and he'll either fall behind or the group is forced to stay back instead of flanking or retreating to defend that one person with zero other options available. And if the above explanation is too complicated for those who are still on the fence I've created a simple equation to help you all understand.

Counterplay = Good
No Counterplay = Not Good

Hope that helps and hope ZOS really does not go through with the 60% snare increase and rather speeds up the animation and gets rid of the 30% snare as well.

bardx86

Galarthor wrote: »

The snares on gap closers are most likely not meant as a combat mechanic, but rather as a band-aid fix for increasing the accuracy of gap closers - after all, the less your target moves, the higher the chances of hitting it.

Well then they should add that snare to mages wrath. The accuracy is sooooo broken right now. Seems fair to me.

Ragnaroek93

My whole class gets crippled and ZOS is trying to force me to use this stupid gapcloser (because it's apparantly part of their long term vision of the game), otherwise I don't have a single snare in my toolkit anymore (on a meele class in a meta in which everybody will have major exp and snare removal on demand) and I lose a lot of damage potential (minor vulnerability). At the same time I can't even block while using it. It's no fun to use a gapcloser and it's no fun to get gapclosed at all. Just awful game design but it's nothing new that they don't learn out of their mistakes.

Irylia

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My whole class gets crippled and ZOS is trying to force me to use this stupid gapcloser (because it's apparantly part of their long term vision of the game), otherwise I don't have a single snare in my toolkit anymore (on a meele class in a meta in which everybody will have major exp and snare removal on demand) and I lose a lot of damage potential (minor vulnerability). At the same time I can't even block while using it. It's no fun to use a gapcloser and it's no fun to get gapclosed at all. Just awful game design but it's nothing new that they don't learn out of their mistakes.

Hope Monday brings some positive vibes. Or we will be in for a long 3 months of gap closing terror

Sheuib

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

3. Cost increase like streak to gap closers.

THIS.

When I'm kiting a group (especially solo) and there is one guy literally just spamming a gap closer, IDK how that is skillful game play?

If you’re not going to bother to line of the people chasing you then you deserve what you get.

Sheuib

Allowing gap closers to miss would essentially make melee builds useless.

kojou

I was on in the days of original gap closer roots... It was terrible.

Gap closer snares are a little less bad, but lets face it, snares are terrible too.

The main issue I have with gap closers missing is that it will push us back to a speed meta with Orc Stam Sorcs basically being invincible because you can't keep up with them or hit them with anything.

I personally would like to see gap closers be 100% faster and leave the 30% snare, but programmatically it is probably easier to increase the snare by 100%.