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Nightblades are still strong
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xMovingTarget✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »current meta is a bunch of bow-bow stamdens in vAS.
There were no stamdens in the world record runs. In every trial except cloudrest, the world record boards are dominated by stamblades, including vas.
Stamblades in vAS+3? Or, you know, generally stamina? Mm-m-mkay. ^^
Not sure what you're saying, but vAS is only +2 on hardmode, and yes, the world record has 7 stamblades.
Bowblades 😉1 -
Kalante✭✭✭✭✭
✭just give me back the healing I lost from loosing minor beserker and we are goochy.0 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭xMovingTarget wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »current meta is a bunch of bow-bow stamdens in vAS.
There were no stamdens in the world record runs. In every trial except cloudrest, the world record boards are dominated by stamblades, including vas.
Stamblades in vAS+3? Or, you know, generally stamina? Mm-m-mkay. ^^
Not sure what you're saying, but vAS is only +2 on hardmode, and yes, the world record has 7 stamblades.
Bowblades 😉
Still stamblades
2 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hello Forumblades,
I just wanted to point out a few things cause i mostly see Nightblades saying the class is dead and unplayable now without really saying why.
I was going over the changes done in Update 22 and dont really see any big and class destroying Things.
1. Incap trading Major Defile for Minor Mangle
PvE: Doesnt effect it at all
PvP: Minor Mangle is a strong debuff and reduces Health by 2k when you just have 20k and gets even stronger the more health your target got. Makes it effective against high Health builds.
2. Grim Focus loosing minor berserk/minor endurance
PvE: In an optimized group you have a healer with Combat prayer that is giving you minor berserk so you get this buff anyway. Also you have the best sustain out of all classes dps wise and i think you can handle a loss of 10% stam Recovery.
PvP: you lost minor berserk but gained Minor Vulnerability wich is a much more potent damage increase. And for loosing minor endurance maybe its time to put 1 stam Recovery glyph instead of all weapon damage. You already get 15% more Recovery just by a passive... Come on....
Fear
PvE: Dont think anyone seriously using that...
PvP: You lost snare and Maim on it but you can fear Up to 6! Targets. And you lock them in place now. A spammable CC for 6 targets... Jesus.
Dark cloak:
Heal got less but you also have a longer uptime in minor protection
Shade:
Got buffed, esspecially on stambuilds
Surprise attack loosing major fracture:
PvE: The tank already provides this debuff. With the new debuff to resist you can reduce resist now even more
PvP: Suprise attack already got the highest tooltip out of every single target spammable with Instant damage. Also providing major fracture and proccing your armor buffs passively was really overloaded. Every other class need to either slot ransack (way less damage compared to surp Attack while doing the exact same thing in pvp) or a secondary skill to get major fracture (noxios, sub assault). So Nightblades just got put in line with other classes and their acces to major fracture.
So in general, PvE wise nothing really changed and PvP wise Nightblades just lost some damage while being the number one single target damage class. And guess what, they will still be a top Tier class.
Why you all saying Nightblades got destroyed and are useless now?
1. Minor Mangle only lasts 2 seconds, it isn't that good of a replacement to Major Defile.
2. And now Nightblade(! Both magicka and stamina.) gets to spend extra resources for literally no reason at all. You have to cast Grim Focus in order to access the proc, and now Grim Focus does literally nothing except give you access to the proc. You're using resources on literally nothing.
3. Can't argue with Fear buffs.
4. Which could have been acquired by simply slotting the Psijic ultimate. The heal is borderline useless, only ticking for 450 health every second with 20k health.
5. Haven't looked into the shade, so can't comment.
6. Surprise Attack lost the main thing that made it unique, having the penetration buff on it. I agree that it was overloaded, but it should have either had the force stun out of stealth removed, or it should have been moved into the Assassination line to stop it from granting resistance buffs.2 -
Druid40✭✭✭✭I like the new fear change for NB tanking. More could be done to make NB tanking better, but it helps a lot being able to reliably lock down enemy NPCs without a frost staff. That hit to Dark Cloak might make tanking harder, but I have not tested it yet.1 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »current meta is a bunch of bow-bow stamdens in vAS.
There were no stamdens in the world record runs. In every trial except cloudrest, the world record boards are dominated by stamblades, including vas.
Stamblades in vAS+3? Or, you know, generally stamina? Mm-m-mkay. ^^
Not sure what you're saying, but vAS is only +2 on hardmode, and yes, the world record has 7 stamblades.
1) Six.
2) All bow/bow thanks to spider synergy, and stamden's better at bow/bow since sNB will have to use incap.
3) ...and now stamblades won't have access to minor berserk, while stamdens will keep it; I doubt that in vAS+2 healers will get everyone covered with Prayer.4 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Yeah, I'm not surprised that you celebrate these "nerfs" (can't even call it nerfs, it's more like removing light and med armor Nb from the game) since you're crying about months about how OP Nb is. Disgusting.
Yep, the lost of major fracture on your 15K surprise attack literraly makes it unplayable now.
15K surprise attack tooltip lol. Keep posting your build editor screenshots with all buffs available to make skills look OP. Power Extraction now has pretty much 93% of Surprise Attacks damage, yeah that's fine...
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=115798
Buffs are:
Tri stat potion
Rally
Weapon Damage Enchant
C. Attack
Surprise attack tooltip: 15288
Lets remove c attack:
Surprise attack tooltip: 14264
And thats without damage sets as you can seem just shackle bone Pirate and Bloodspawn. Full sustain. And race is redguard, imagine orc for even more damage.
Ok, I've tested on live server with Bone Pirate and Spriggan, 3x wpndmg enchant, infused wpndmg glyph, nirn 2h weapon and don't even come close to your tooltips, your build editor is buggy for sure. Explain me how you get up to 5k wpndmg with Shackle + Bone without running infused trait on your jewelry (which you didn't). Replicate this on PTS otherwise I call *** on this build editor. Do you play the class on live or do you just hang around in build editor?Edited by Ragnaroek93 on April 17, 2019 1:24PMI used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.6 -
darkblue5✭✭✭✭✭Guess magblades don't count.
Yeah now we can avoid fighting even more with RAT like the filthy rats we are, and then get 50% reduced damage Assassin's Wills that give a heal that is cut by 50% again by Battle Spirit. 
There's no way that will make healers unneeded in PVE again and surely will help the worst strongest open world spec survive even better!
Yes, magblades are just as strong as they were and that's just great.
Okay, yes magblades got hit a bit. They were never the best class for open Word PvP. But they are still strong in duels and are always in the top 3 of dueling turnaments.
You Assassin's Will is still hard hitting. You lost minor berserk but how is that a 50% damage reduction? You mean battlespirit? Thats nothing new. And minor berserk was never a flat 8% damage increase cause it also needed to pass the damage mitigation from your target.
The problem is Assassin's Will is easy dodge mode. You have to be in melee range for heal. The heal is tiny because it gets double hit by Battle Spirit. All attacks where you deal damage and heal for damage cause get double taxed. The heal is even less than you think. I forgot the initial 33% of damage caused part XD.
Yet it may well be too much healing in PVE. The 7m range is limiting but dps in end game self healing is a problem rn. This doesn't help with that, and this doesn't help PvP magblade. Things have to be going very well for you to hit an Assassin's Will. Magblade needs reliable defense or reliable pressure before hitting Assassin's Will to make it work. This won't help with either.2 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Yeah, I'm not surprised that you celebrate these "nerfs" (can't even call it nerfs, it's more like removing light and med armor Nb from the game) since you're crying about months about how OP Nb is. Disgusting.
Yep, the lost of major fracture on your 15K surprise attack literraly makes it unplayable now.
15K surprise attack tooltip lol. Keep posting your build editor screenshots with all buffs available to make skills look OP. Power Extraction now has pretty much 93% of Surprise Attacks damage, yeah that's fine...
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=115798
Buffs are:
Tri stat potion
Rally
Weapon Damage Enchant
C. Attack
Surprise attack tooltip: 15288
Lets remove c attack:
Surprise attack tooltip: 14264
And thats without damage sets as you can seem just shackle bone Pirate and Bloodspawn. Full sustain. And race is redguard, imagine orc for even more damage.
Ok, I've tested on live server with Bone Pirate and Spriggan, 3x wpndmg enchant, infused wpndmg glyph, nirn 2h weapon and don't even come close to your tooltips, your build editor is buggy for sure. Explain me how you get up to 5k wpndmg with Shackle + Bone without running infused trait on your jewelry (which you didn't). Replicate this on PTS otherwise I call *** on this build editor. Do you play the class on live or do you just hang around in build editor?
Why spriggan? I am using Shackle and Bone.
And the build editor is not bugged. Try to recreate the build. Warrior mundus and so on. Spriggan 5 piece doesnt effect tooltips at all.
Edit: Yes i do Play stambladeEdited by Gnozo on April 17, 2019 1:31PM1 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Yeah, I'm not surprised that you celebrate these "nerfs" (can't even call it nerfs, it's more like removing light and med armor Nb from the game) since you're crying about months about how OP Nb is. Disgusting.
Yep, the lost of major fracture on your 15K surprise attack literraly makes it unplayable now.
15K surprise attack tooltip lol. Keep posting your build editor screenshots with all buffs available to make skills look OP. Power Extraction now has pretty much 93% of Surprise Attacks damage, yeah that's fine...
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=115798
Buffs are:
Tri stat potion
Rally
Weapon Damage Enchant
C. Attack
Surprise attack tooltip: 15288
Lets remove c attack:
Surprise attack tooltip: 14264
And thats without damage sets as you can seem just shackle bone Pirate and Bloodspawn. Full sustain. And race is redguard, imagine orc for even more damage.
Ok, I've tested on live server with Bone Pirate and Spriggan, 3x wpndmg enchant, infused wpndmg glyph, nirn 2h weapon and don't even come close to your tooltips, your build editor is buggy for sure. Explain me how you get up to 5k wpndmg with Shackle + Bone without running infused trait on your jewelry (which you didn't). Replicate this on PTS otherwise I call *** on this build editor. Do you play the class on live or do you just hang around in build editor?
Why spriggan? I am using Shackle and Bone.
And the build editor is not bugged. Try to recreate the build. Warrior mundus and so on. Spriggan 5 piece doesnt effect tooltips at all.
Spriggan has the same effect on the tooltip as Shacklebreaker has? I did try to recreate this and I don't come close to it, so explain please how you get to 5k wpndmg with bone + shackle and without infused jewelry on a Redguard.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
Druid40✭✭✭✭P.S. Replace the 'Shrewd Offering' morph of 'Malevolent Offering' with the old 'Prolonged Suffering' DOT.1
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royo✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »current meta is a bunch of bow-bow stamdens in vAS.
There were no stamdens in the world record runs. In every trial except cloudrest, the world record boards are dominated by stamblades, including vas.
Stamblades in vAS+3? Or, you know, generally stamina? Mm-m-mkay. ^^
Not sure what you're saying, but vAS is only +2 on hardmode, and yes, the world record has 7 stamblades.
1) Six.
2) All bow/bow thanks to spider synergy, and stamden's better at bow/bow since sNB will have to use incap.
3) ...and now stamblades won't have access to minor berserk, while stamdens will keep it; I doubt that in vAS+2 healers will get everyone covered with Prayer.
Incap is a dps increase, not dps loss. Stamblades in speedrunning groups outparse stamdens. Is the opposite true in your group in bow bow vas? The world record will be broken with 8 stamblades any day now.0 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Yeah, I'm not surprised that you celebrate these "nerfs" (can't even call it nerfs, it's more like removing light and med armor Nb from the game) since you're crying about months about how OP Nb is. Disgusting.
Yep, the lost of major fracture on your 15K surprise attack literraly makes it unplayable now.
15K surprise attack tooltip lol. Keep posting your build editor screenshots with all buffs available to make skills look OP. Power Extraction now has pretty much 93% of Surprise Attacks damage, yeah that's fine...
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=115798
Buffs are:
Tri stat potion
Rally
Weapon Damage Enchant
C. Attack
Surprise attack tooltip: 15288
Lets remove c attack:
Surprise attack tooltip: 14264
And thats without damage sets as you can seem just shackle bone Pirate and Bloodspawn. Full sustain. And race is redguard, imagine orc for even more damage.
Ok, I've tested on live server with Bone Pirate and Spriggan, 3x wpndmg enchant, infused wpndmg glyph, nirn 2h weapon and don't even come close to your tooltips, your build editor is buggy for sure. Explain me how you get up to 5k wpndmg with Shackle + Bone without running infused trait on your jewelry (which you didn't). Replicate this on PTS otherwise I call *** on this build editor. Do you play the class on live or do you just hang around in build editor?
Build editor is pretty buggy and at best only allows people to get a rough estimate when it comes to making builds. Quite a few mechanics don't actually apply in the build editor at all.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.1 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Yeah, I'm not surprised that you celebrate these "nerfs" (can't even call it nerfs, it's more like removing light and med armor Nb from the game) since you're crying about months about how OP Nb is. Disgusting.
Yep, the lost of major fracture on your 15K surprise attack literraly makes it unplayable now.
15K surprise attack tooltip lol. Keep posting your build editor screenshots with all buffs available to make skills look OP. Power Extraction now has pretty much 93% of Surprise Attacks damage, yeah that's fine...
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=115798
Buffs are:
Tri stat potion
Rally
Weapon Damage Enchant
C. Attack
Surprise attack tooltip: 15288
Lets remove c attack:
Surprise attack tooltip: 14264
And thats without damage sets as you can seem just shackle bone Pirate and Bloodspawn. Full sustain. And race is redguard, imagine orc for even more damage.
Ok, I've tested on live server with Bone Pirate and Spriggan, 3x wpndmg enchant, infused wpndmg glyph, nirn 2h weapon and don't even come close to your tooltips, your build editor is buggy for sure. Explain me how you get up to 5k wpndmg with Shackle + Bone without running infused trait on your jewelry (which you didn't). Replicate this on PTS otherwise I call *** on this build editor. Do you play the class on live or do you just hang around in build editor?
Why spriggan? I am using Shackle and Bone.
And the build editor is not bugged. Try to recreate the build. Warrior mundus and so on. Spriggan 5 piece doesnt effect tooltips at all.
Spriggan has the same effect on the tooltip as Shacklebreaker has? I did try to recreate this and I don't come close to it, so explain please how you get to 5k wpndmg with bone + shackle and without infused jewelry on a Redguard.
I cant Login today but i will try to give you a short showcase on my build on live. Keep in mind these 5k weapon damage are with c attack and stealthed.0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Yeah, I'm not surprised that you celebrate these "nerfs" (can't even call it nerfs, it's more like removing light and med armor Nb from the game) since you're crying about months about how OP Nb is. Disgusting.
Yep, the lost of major fracture on your 15K surprise attack literraly makes it unplayable now.
15K surprise attack tooltip lol. Keep posting your build editor screenshots with all buffs available to make skills look OP. Power Extraction now has pretty much 93% of Surprise Attacks damage, yeah that's fine...
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=115798
Buffs are:
Tri stat potion
Rally
Weapon Damage Enchant
C. Attack
Surprise attack tooltip: 15288
Lets remove c attack:
Surprise attack tooltip: 14264
And thats without damage sets as you can seem just shackle bone Pirate and Bloodspawn. Full sustain. And race is redguard, imagine orc for even more damage.
Ok, I've tested on live server with Bone Pirate and Spriggan, 3x wpndmg enchant, infused wpndmg glyph, nirn 2h weapon and don't even come close to your tooltips, your build editor is buggy for sure. Explain me how you get up to 5k wpndmg with Shackle + Bone without running infused trait on your jewelry (which you didn't). Replicate this on PTS otherwise I call *** on this build editor. Do you play the class on live or do you just hang around in build editor?
Build editor is pretty buggy and at best only allows people to get a rough estimate when it comes to making builds. Quite a few mechanics don't actually apply in the build editor at all.
Yeah I thought so. So this whole thread boils down to "nerf Nb because build editor". How unexpected.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.6 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »current meta is a bunch of bow-bow stamdens in vAS.
There were no stamdens in the world record runs. In every trial except cloudrest, the world record boards are dominated by stamblades, including vas.
Stamblades in vAS+3? Or, you know, generally stamina? Mm-m-mkay. ^^
Not sure what you're saying, but vAS is only +2 on hardmode, and yes, the world record has 7 stamblades.
1) Six.
2) All bow/bow thanks to spider synergy, and stamden's better at bow/bow since sNB will have to use incap.
3) ...and now stamblades won't have access to minor berserk, while stamdens will keep it; I doubt that in vAS+2 healers will get everyone covered with Prayer.
Incap is a dps increase, not dps loss. Stamblades in speedrunning groups outparse stamdens. Is the opposite true in your group in bow bow vas? The world record will be broken with 8 stamblades any day now.
What I'm speaking about is that stamden is ranged, while stamblade would have to be in melee range at least sometimes. And can you say in earnest that the record will be broken by 8 stamblades after Elsweyr, when they won't have in class access to Minor Berserk?0 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭Magblade is not dead or unplayable. It has however, been really hard to play Magblade since murkmire the reason for that is a complete lack of decent self heals. playing magblade was really frustrating because of this fact, adding a heal to merciless was one of the worst ways they could have come up with to deal with it as merciless misses a majority of the time because of the delay and how telegraphed the ability is.
in short. Magblade is in a really bad place because of lack of self heals.Invictus1 -
royo✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »current meta is a bunch of bow-bow stamdens in vAS.
There were no stamdens in the world record runs. In every trial except cloudrest, the world record boards are dominated by stamblades, including vas.
Stamblades in vAS+3? Or, you know, generally stamina? Mm-m-mkay. ^^
Not sure what you're saying, but vAS is only +2 on hardmode, and yes, the world record has 7 stamblades.
1) Six.
2) All bow/bow thanks to spider synergy, and stamden's better at bow/bow since sNB will have to use incap.
3) ...and now stamblades won't have access to minor berserk, while stamdens will keep it; I doubt that in vAS+2 healers will get everyone covered with Prayer.
Incap is a dps increase, not dps loss. Stamblades in speedrunning groups outparse stamdens. Is the opposite true in your group in bow bow vas? The world record will be broken with 8 stamblades any day now.
What I'm speaking about is that stamden is ranged, while stamblade would have to be in melee range at least sometimes. And can you say in earnest that the record will be broken by 8 stamblades after Elsweyr, when they won't have in class access to Minor Berserk?
Yeah, monster sets are bad in vas. They'll just wear slimecraw.
But it will be 8x necromancers if things don't change on the PTS. Which they probably will.Edited by royo on April 17, 2019 1:43PM0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Well, if you’re talking pve then yea Nightblades will have issues. Likely one stamblade per raid for people who really min max for surprise attack. Thing is you can’t balance around these types of raids, if one class is 500 dps higher they’ll all change classes to try and min max. For your average trial guild it will not matter.
For pvp NB bow builds I predict will be a lot stronger because of reflects. Ganking builds will have issues outside solo play. If you build a snipe build right you can get minor and major defile.
For pvp magblades are better off because of RAT, no reflections and fear effecting 6. People who look at tooltips and try to gauge pvp have no clue what they’re talking about. Can’t reason with them, it’s the way they view output and pvp tactics that’s flawed, plus lack of experience. They never learned how to pvp well so value everything that’s not important so can’t see the big picture.Edited by Iskiab on April 17, 2019 1:49PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Yeah, I'm not surprised that you celebrate these "nerfs" (can't even call it nerfs, it's more like removing light and med armor Nb from the game) since you're crying about months about how OP Nb is. Disgusting.
Yep, the lost of major fracture on your 15K surprise attack literraly makes it unplayable now.
15K surprise attack tooltip lol. Keep posting your build editor screenshots with all buffs available to make skills look OP. Power Extraction now has pretty much 93% of Surprise Attacks damage, yeah that's fine...
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=115798
Buffs are:
Tri stat potion
Rally
Weapon Damage Enchant
C. Attack
Surprise attack tooltip: 15288
Lets remove c attack:
Surprise attack tooltip: 14264
And thats without damage sets as you can seem just shackle bone Pirate and Bloodspawn. Full sustain. And race is redguard, imagine orc for even more damage.
Ok, I've tested on live server with Bone Pirate and Spriggan, 3x wpndmg enchant, infused wpndmg glyph, nirn 2h weapon and don't even come close to your tooltips, your build editor is buggy for sure. Explain me how you get up to 5k wpndmg with Shackle + Bone without running infused trait on your jewelry (which you didn't). Replicate this on PTS otherwise I call *** on this build editor. Do you play the class on live or do you just hang around in build editor?
Build editor is pretty buggy and at best only allows people to get a rough estimate when it comes to making builds. Quite a few mechanics don't actually apply in the build editor at all.
Yeah I thought so. So this whole thread boils down to "nerf Nb because build editor". How unexpected.
I never had problems with build Editor and the values just varies slightly compared to live.0 -
Kuramas9tails✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Unless you are a Mageblade who small scales literally every content and don't need a healer then yes, 8% damage reduction is a decent size nerf.PvE: In an optimized group you have a healer with Combat prayer that is giving you minor berserk so you get this buff anyway. Also you have the best sustain out of all classes dps wise and i think you can handle a loss of 10% stam Recovery.Your friendly neighborhood crazy cat lady of ESO
New PSN name: SundariTheLast. Proud seller in RedEye Empire, PURPLE GANG and Backalley Trading.
AD High Elf Mageblade DPS (General)(Former Empress) -- Stormproof/VMOL, VHOF, VDSA completion
AD Khajiit Mageblade DPS -- Flawless Conquerer
FOR THE QUEEN!
PS4/NA1 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »current meta is a bunch of bow-bow stamdens in vAS.
There were no stamdens in the world record runs. In every trial except cloudrest, the world record boards are dominated by stamblades, including vas.
Stamblades in vAS+3? Or, you know, generally stamina? Mm-m-mkay. ^^
Not sure what you're saying, but vAS is only +2 on hardmode, and yes, the world record has 7 stamblades.
1) Six.
2) All bow/bow thanks to spider synergy, and stamden's better at bow/bow since sNB will have to use incap.
3) ...and now stamblades won't have access to minor berserk, while stamdens will keep it; I doubt that in vAS+2 healers will get everyone covered with Prayer.
Incap is a dps increase, not dps loss. Stamblades in speedrunning groups outparse stamdens. Is the opposite true in your group in bow bow vas? The world record will be broken with 8 stamblades any day now.
What I'm speaking about is that stamden is ranged, while stamblade would have to be in melee range at least sometimes. And can you say in earnest that the record will be broken by 8 stamblades after Elsweyr, when they won't have in class access to Minor Berserk?
Yeah, monster sets are bad in vas. They'll just wear slimecraw.
But it will be 8x necromancers if things don't change on the PTS. Which they probably will.
Mm-m, I suppose that it's a maybe, yes. Would it still be a damage drop compared to what current record ran? Probably two or three percent since they'll have to drop 1pc Kra'gh just to keep Berserk. Can see how it'd work though.0 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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OMG, you're on to something here, but I'd vote for Major Sorcery on Merciless and they can remove it from Sap for all I care. I've never had a build where Sap felt like a natural fit for Major Sorcery. If you are ranged, you're out of range. If you are a ganker or bomber you want to pre-buff. Getting Major Sorcery from an AOE spammable never made a lot of sense to me.@Gnozo
Magblade is not destroyed for PvP. It's arguably better than last patch, mostly due to extraneous factors like RAT and Scales changes. There are a couple of issues though that need looking at in PTS though.
1. Merciless
Merciless requires casting twice, once to activate it and once to use it after 5 light attacks. But without granting any sort of buff anymore that first cast is a complete waste of resources. It makes no sense to cast a skill and get nothing for it. There's no other skill like it in the game. They need to add some minor/major buff to it, even if it's something weaker than Minor Berserk. Magblades have no source of Major Prophecy for example, it'd be nice to get that and rely less on spell power pots. Or something else, anything really is better than nothing at all.7 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
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OMG, you're on to something here, but I'd vote for Major Sorcery on Merciless and they can remove it from Sap for all I care. I've never had a build where Sap felt like a natural fit for Major Sorcery. If you are ranged, you're out of range. If you are a ganker or bomber you want to pre-buff. Getting Major Sorcery from an AOE spammable never made a lot of sense to me.@Gnozo
Magblade is not destroyed for PvP. It's arguably better than last patch, mostly due to extraneous factors like RAT and Scales changes. There are a couple of issues though that need looking at in PTS though.
1. Merciless
Merciless requires casting twice, once to activate it and once to use it after 5 light attacks. But without granting any sort of buff anymore that first cast is a complete waste of resources. It makes no sense to cast a skill and get nothing for it. There's no other skill like it in the game. They need to add some minor/major buff to it, even if it's something weaker than Minor Berserk. Magblades have no source of Major Prophecy for example, it'd be nice to get that and rely less on spell power pots. Or something else, anything really is better than nothing at all.
I don't disagree. Sap is the worst candidate skill for Major Sorcery. The two skills that lend themselves to being buff skills are:
1) Siphoning Attacks/Strikes.
2) Merciless Resolve/Relentless Focus.
I don't really mind which buff it is tbh. Or if its something else altogether. But ultimately they either need to remove the cost from the first cast altogether or they need to add a major/minor buff cause the current state is basically unacceptable. You're paying resources for nothing.
Edited by Maulkin on April 17, 2019 2:09PMEU | PC | AD3 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@Gnozo , I'm stamDK main, I can spend a year counting my problems, but right now my only problem is you trying to pull invalid arguments to convince that NB nerfs don't matter and sNB fracture is now in line with sDK's or stamden's. Doesn't work like that, sorry. ^^
I didnt said they dont matter. What mean is that they simply arent that bad that it Worth 1047862 threads about Nightblades to be useless now.
They just need to search for another source of major fracture wich isnt a big deal tho and they still have crazy single target damage compared to other classes.
Should I really quote you about them being in line with Noxious and Sub Assault? And 'crazy single target' is emotional argument, not quantitative. Quantitative would be... say recent parses from Murkmire that show stamdens and stamplars pulling about the same damage on a parse. So no, damage's not an argument either. "Search another source" is a moot argument for many reasons. Mark Target doesn't qualify - extra GCD without damage, and without practically usable effects beside debuffs. And boy, do I need to remind you that sNBs are tight on bar space because they have too many mandatory stuff on bars - separate execute, separate spammable, two buffs/procs (both also can't be dropped), trap, rending and trio of standard skills on bow bar. No flex spot for anything but Vigor. As a stamDK, I both have a flex spot on back bar and my Noxious actually deals damage (and applies AoE fracture). No such luxury on sNB, every skill you drop amounts to lost damage.Jagdkommando wrote: »Jagdkommando wrote: »Hello Forumblades,
I just wanted to point out a few things cause i mostly see Nightblades saying the class is dead and unplayable now without really saying why.
I was going over the changes done in Update 22 and dont really see any big and class destroying Things.
1. Incap trading Major Defile for Minor Mangle
PvE: Doesnt effect it at all
PvP: Minor Mangle is a strong debuff and reduces Health by 2k when you just have 20k and gets even stronger the more health your target got. Makes it effective against high Health builds.
2. Grim Focus loosing minor berserk/minor endurance
PvE: In an optimized group you have a healer with Combat prayer that is giving you minor berserk so you get this buff anyway. Also you have the best sustain out of all classes dps wise and i think you can handle a loss of 10% stam Recovery.
PvP: you lost minor berserk but gained Minor Vulnerability wich is a much more potent damage increase. And for loosing minor endurance maybe its time to put 1 stam Recovery glyph instead of all weapon damage. You already get 15% more Recovery just by a passive... Come on....
Fear
PvE: Dont think anyone seriously using that...
PvP: You lost snare and Maim on it but you can fear Up to 6! Targets. And you lock them in place now. A spammable CC for 6 targets... Jesus.
Dark cloak:
Heal got less but you also have a longer uptime in minor protection
Shade:
Got buffed, esspecially on stambuilds
Surprise attack loosing major fracture:
PvE: The tank already provides this debuff. With the new debuff to resist you can reduce resist now even more
PvP: Suprise attack already got the highest tooltip out of every single target spammable with Instant damage. Also providing major fracture and proccing your armor buffs passively was really overloaded. Every other class need to either slot ransack (way less damage compared to surp Attack while doing the exact same thing in pvp) or a secondary skill to get major fracture (noxios, sub assault). So Nightblades just got put in line with other classes and their acces to major fracture.
So in general, PvE wise nothing really changed and PvP wise Nightblades just lost some damage while being the number one single target damage class. And guess what, they will still be a top Tier class.
Why you all saying Nightblades got destroyed and are useless now?
You are wrong.
Why i am wrong. Wtf is wrong with people giving random statements without providing ANY reason. Omg
Dude, as a top player in this game, you are wrong believe me, in vMA now stamblades are ***, in solo roleplay ***, in pvp extremely weak(i mean defenses), you will not ALWAYS get those nerfed buffs, especially in random dungeon runs where even 810+ players most of the times dont know how to play!!! and many many other things
Why are stamblades in vma *** now? Cause they lost major fracture and minor endurance? How come other classes without access to These buffs can still do it pretty good. I dont think stamblades are *** now.
What is solo roleplay? Roleplay gets effected by loosing major fracute? Dont know never been in this roleplay thingy
Defense wise in PvP normal damage stamblades lost minor Maim on Fear. Okay got it. But doesnt the main defense from stamblades just come from avoiding damage by dodge roll and cloak?
Other classes have other things going for them. Stamsorcs have survivability thanks to surge, for instance, and you don't have to keep light attacking (not always possible) to get easy, strong self-healing going. "Pretty good" is, again, nothing resembling a sensible argument. On stamDK, you usually have to just finish vMA with any score to get on the leaderboard (very handy to get coffers with second weapon on Mondays), few are crazy enough to run, and I'm pretty sure that even that half-empty leaderboard is chock full of magDKs. If other classes manage to clear vMA too, it doesn't say anything about how much do they struggle there.
Bro please GTFO trying to say you can't clear vma easily anymore lmfao if you can't then you need to gg at the game vma is not that bad.
Comparing stamblades to stamsorc and stamdk? Bruh they don't even come close to parsing together DPS wise. What does Stam sorc and Stam dk use? Moves outside of their class? Stamsorc has 1 actual DPS move in their toolkit called hurricane. Stamdk has venom claw and it just took a hit so you can't spam it anymore. So again tell me how NB a class that has a lot of Stam morphs compares to these classes? GG3 -
Ethoir✭✭✭Not everyone calls NB a dead class. Those that do are blowing things out of proportion. With that said, some of the changes do impact me in my builds and I feel I should comment on the changes that impacted my Stamblade the most.
PvE: I spend most of my time solo, usually either doing delve dailies or questing. I felt the loss of Minor Berserk/Endurance.2: Grim Focus loosing minor berserk/minor endurance- That 8% damage loss was noticeable. I went from dealing 39k with Lethal Arrows on a target with 31k HP (on Live) to 25-29k and relying on the poison DOT (on PTS). Both attacks were sneak attacks from behind. The Snipe nerf was also a factor in the PTS run.
- I'd have to wear Slimecraw to compensate. I recognize that for group content you'd get this from Combat Prayer, but getting the group to stand in one spot where you can tag them with it is easier said than done. I also can't hug the healer all the time either, so it looks like Slimecraw is what I'll end up using in group content too.
- Losing Minor Endurance didn't seem like a big deal at first. I compared my fully buffed Stam Regen on Live (without pots) with what I got on PTS (also without pots). I had 2140 on Live and 2081 on PTS. With no sources of Minor Endurance, I've lost 59 Stam Regen. On paper this sounded acceptable, but it adds up in a protracted fight. I would've preferred having 2140 regen over 2081. And for the record, I don't rely on pots.
- Using Grim Focus gives you nothing for activating it, and its wasted resources if you don't get those 5 light attacks in to activate the bow proc.
- For vMA the loss of sustain and damage potential is even more felt. Since it is strictly a Solo "trial", the group mechanics arguments are invalid.
- Losing Minor Endurance means Stamblades may consider using Siphoning Attacks to help with sustain. The problem with that is your first 7 (give or take) light/heavy attacks are spent recovering from the skill's cost.
PvP: I haven't played in Cyrodiil in a while, but I know losing Minor Endurance means sustain will be harder in an environment where sustain and resource management actually matters. Especially since success in Cyrodiil entirely depends on how well you can juggle healing, dps, and tanking all at once.- The loss of Minor Berserk is a double-edged sword. You won't be ganked as hard for a little while, but neither can you gank them as hard. For more general purpose PvP, it will definitely prolong the fights you get into.
- Losing Minor Endurance in PvP could be dangerous. Since it affects your sustain and you have no other sources of it, you only have four options. The first is to use Circle of Protection from the Fighter's Guild. The second is use Stam Pots or Tri-Pots. The third is to fight with a group, in a group. And the fourth is to slot Siphoning Attacks and spam light attacks.
- The bow proc from the skill is unreliable here since enemy players can dodge or block it.
PvE: I had a problem with this. I don't use Crusher enchants on my weapons, nor do I use Fracturing poisons. The only source of Fracture I have according to the changes will be from Mark Target, enchantments, and poisons.6: Surprise attack loosing major fracture- I don't bother with Mark Target because it costs magicka to use, something Stamblades have in very short supply.
- Surprise Attack was quite effective for me as a melee spammable. While I didn't use it much in group dungeons, just smacking a boss every 14 seconds, I spammed the crap out of it in solo play.
- Crusher Enchantments and Fracturing Poisons both have a cooldown attached to them. Plus they don't last nearly as long as Mark Target or the old Surprise Attack. This limits their effectiveness.
- I don't know what to feel about it right now. I have to conduct more testing.
PvP: I haven't used Surprise Attack in PvP in a long time, as it was one of the few times I preferred using Mark Target (to annoy enemy NBs) or Shadow Cloak instead.
In general, nerfing Grim Focus hurt sustain (slightly) and DPS potential. I understand the reasons, even if I don't really like them: the NB burst potential was too high and they want to bring it down so it is closer to the level of the other classes. People will find a way to adapt to these changes, they always have before. I'll also have to consider using heavy attacks more often, maybe even pots (which is something I've never had to do a lot of before).
And since Mark Target is the only source of Major Fracture NB has now, I feel disappointed. Its a magicka skill and Stamblades don't have a lot of magicka to use. I'd be better off using the Magicka pool for other utility skills like Mass Hysteria, the unmorphed Shadow Cloak, and Cripple.
With that said, its still just an initial balance change and ZOS will be listening for constructive feedback to base future changes upon in this PTS cycle. So there's still time for things to get changed again before Update 22 goes live.
Are Stamblades and Magblades "dead" in this major update? No, they most certainly are not. Are they hurting? Yes, to an extent, but so is everyone else. They feel a little nerfed, but not cripplingly so. We'll manage.
I do wish to have Minor Endurance and Minor Berserk back. Maybe on a different class skill, but I'd like to see them return. In the meantime I'll have to get them from other sources like everyone else.Edited by Ethoir on April 17, 2019 4:03PMParticipant in the Sanguine's Tester beta group since November 2013.4 -
Blinkin8r✭✭✭✭✭Hello Forumblades,
I just wanted to point out a few things cause i mostly see Nightblades saying the class is dead and unplayable now without really saying why.
I was going over the changes done in Update 22 and dont really see any big and class destroying Things.
1. Incap trading Major Defile for Minor Mangle
PvE: Doesnt effect it at all
PvP: Minor Mangle is a strong debuff and reduces Health by 2k when you just have 20k and gets even stronger the more health your target got. Makes it effective against high Health builds.
2. Grim Focus loosing minor berserk/minor endurance
PvE: In an optimized group you have a healer with Combat prayer that is giving you minor berserk so you get this buff anyway. Also you have the best sustain out of all classes dps wise and i think you can handle a loss of 10% stam Recovery.
PvP: you lost minor berserk but gained Minor Vulnerability wich is a much more potent damage increase. And for loosing minor endurance maybe its time to put 1 stam Recovery glyph instead of all weapon damage. You already get 15% more Recovery just by a passive... Come on....
Fear
PvE: Dont think anyone seriously using that...
PvP: You lost snare and Maim on it but you can fear Up to 6! Targets. And you lock them in place now. A spammable CC for 6 targets... Jesus.
Dark cloak:
Heal got less but you also have a longer uptime in minor protection
Shade:
Got buffed, esspecially on stambuilds
Surprise attack loosing major fracture:
PvE: The tank already provides this debuff. With the new debuff to resist you can reduce resist now even more
PvP: Suprise attack already got the highest tooltip out of every single target spammable with Instant damage. Also providing major fracture and proccing your armor buffs passively was really overloaded. Every other class need to either slot ransack (way less damage compared to surp Attack while doing the exact same thing in pvp) or a secondary skill to get major fracture (noxios, sub assault). So Nightblades just got put in line with other classes and their acces to major fracture.
So in general, PvE wise nothing really changed and PvP wise Nightblades just lost some damage while being the number one single target damage class. And guess what, they will still be a top Tier class.
Why you all saying Nightblades got destroyed and are useless now?
1: Incap. Minor mangle while it is not a bad debuff, is only applied during the duration of the stun, if they get stunned at all. I'd check the patch notes again. If it were minor mangle during the extra damage period it might actually be worth something. As of now it's useless on Incap.
2: I agree, however I wish they would've added something to grim focus rather than gutting it and just making it a bow proc skill.
3: I like the fear change.
4: Never even used dark cloak. That's kind of a heavy blade thing and it did kind of need a nerf. I do think they made it kind of useless though.
5: Shade? Isn't that the skill that never works and they refuse to fix?
6: I will never be ok with losing major fracture on surprise attack until they take it off of wardens hard hitting sub assault. It makes no sense to take it off a hard hitting single target ability and not a hard hitting large AOE.II Blinkin II
Xbox 1 NA
"A man without the sauce is lost, but the same man can become lost in the sauce."3 -
Kolzki✭✭✭✭✭A stamblade build that only has access to the resistance buffs through surprise attack is super squishy during a disconnect. This would encourage aggressive gameplay, which i like to think is the point for stam blades. There are other ways to get the buff from other skill though such as cloak and the shade too.
Other classes have similar situations with their passives. Jabs for stamdens comes to mind, giving crit chance and a snare directly but also crit damage, 10% damage to blocking targets, minor protection and procing extra damage from burning light. To be clear I am not calling for that to be changed. I’m just pointing out that skills are not overloaded because they have to be on bar or used to access class passives.
Sub assault grants aoe fracture, 12% stam and mag recovery, 3% damage done, 4 ultimate and I think (not 100% sure on this one) a small heal that can proc minor toughness. These are mostly available from casting other skills in the line too and again I’m not asking for changes, just pointing out that similar situations exist for other classes where skills can have many effects through interactions with class passives.
A skill being required to access class passives is not the same as a skill being overloaded. All classes have some strong skill-class passive interactions like this. Except maybe stam sorcs...4 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hello Forumblades,
I just wanted to point out a few things cause i mostly see Nightblades saying the class is dead and unplayable now without really saying why.
I was going over the changes done in Update 22 and dont really see any big and class destroying Things.
1. Incap trading Major Defile for Minor Mangle
PvE: Doesnt effect it at all
PvP: Minor Mangle is a strong debuff and reduces Health by 2k when you just have 20k and gets even stronger the more health your target got. Makes it effective against high Health builds.
2. Grim Focus loosing minor berserk/minor endurance
PvE: In an optimized group you have a healer with Combat prayer that is giving you minor berserk so you get this buff anyway. Also you have the best sustain out of all classes dps wise and i think you can handle a loss of 10% stam Recovery.
PvP: you lost minor berserk but gained Minor Vulnerability wich is a much more potent damage increase. And for loosing minor endurance maybe its time to put 1 stam Recovery glyph instead of all weapon damage. You already get 15% more Recovery just by a passive... Come on....
Fear
PvE: Dont think anyone seriously using that...
PvP: You lost snare and Maim on it but you can fear Up to 6! Targets. And you lock them in place now. A spammable CC for 6 targets... Jesus.
Dark cloak:
Heal got less but you also have a longer uptime in minor protection
Shade:
Got buffed, esspecially on stambuilds
Surprise attack loosing major fracture:
PvE: The tank already provides this debuff. With the new debuff to resist you can reduce resist now even more
PvP: Suprise attack already got the highest tooltip out of every single target spammable with Instant damage. Also providing major fracture and proccing your armor buffs passively was really overloaded. Every other class need to either slot ransack (way less damage compared to surp Attack while doing the exact same thing in pvp) or a secondary skill to get major fracture (noxios, sub assault). So Nightblades just got put in line with other classes and their acces to major fracture.
So in general, PvE wise nothing really changed and PvP wise Nightblades just lost some damage while being the number one single target damage class. And guess what, they will still be a top Tier class.
Why you all saying Nightblades got destroyed and are useless now?
They’re saying this because they only play one class, and don’t understand how overpowered NBs (esp. stamNBs) were in relation to the other four classes. Excellent points here, that will unfortunately fall on deaf NB main ears.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: people need to play every class before they complain about much needed balance changes.Edited by Aurielle on April 17, 2019 2:32PM5